Parents--did your views on spanking change once you had children?

[JennyMominRI]

wow. yes I guess I did.

My DD was 4 and I thought she was old enough to be able to sit at the table and use scissors.
She just got up and walked around the table and went to stick them in the outlet. why? I don't know. She couldn't tell me either.

And as for the child locks. I lost a dear friend in a accident. she got stuck in her car because of those damn locks. I vowed that my children will learn not to open a door in a moving car.
and she was 3 at the time. Old enough to know you don't do that.
Would i do it again you betcha. I don't beat my kids. I spanked them when necessary. Am I am not supposed to allow my children to make the correct choices, should I just always be there to tell them right and wrong.

I'm sorry for the way I came off really....I went back and explained more.

 

[CruiserMom2096]

Before I had a child, I thought in certain circumstances, spanking was OK. When I had my daughter, there were a few times when she was young and at that age where it seemed appropriate to pop her hand or swat her rear to get her attention. It never seemed to get me the desired result, and I usually felt bad afterwards. Then once when she was four, I spanked her, and I was angry at her at the time, and immediately felt bad about it. After we both calmed down, I sat her down and apologized to her for spanking her. I told her that I was angry with her about what she had done, and from now on I would find other ways to punish her, and I promised her at that moment that I would never spank her again.

And I never have. I find other ways to discipline and to punish when necessary. It just doesn't feel right to teach a child to act in a considerate, thoughtful way, and do what is right and proper, by hitting her. And she has grown into a considerate, thoughtful, well-disciplined 9 year old, who had never hit another human being.

So yes, I changed my views.

 

[Aidensmom]

I don't get that either. I have smacked my kids a couple of times in anger and I'm not proud of it, but I don't understand the calm and cool spanking. I was the recipient of both types of hitting but the hitting in anger was to me understandable and forgivable. But the cold, calculated pull-down-your-pants beltings seemed cruel and sadistic. I learned nothing from those except how to to hate.

We don't do pull-your-pants-down spanking (and honestly I don't think that most people who say they spank do that either). We do the fully clothed smack on the butt.

To try to explain...it has NEVER, EVER been the first line of discipline. We are just blessed with a stubborn, likes-to-push-the-limits-as-far-as-possible child.

Heck, some things first time we don't discipline more than saying that something is wrong. We understand that a child just sometimes doesn't know that. Once something is explained though, and we know he knows it is wrong, we discipline. Spanking really hasn't been neccessary for a while here (nor has much discipline at all), but this is how it worked a couple of years ago: First discipline is time-out. Second through about 10th time is time out. 10th time is toys taken away. 11th-15th time, more toys taken away. Toys always had to be earned back somehow, like by helping with a chore or something. 15th time was also a warning that next time was spanking. 16th time was spanking. We don't have 17th times. That is what worked here.

We have taken the short cut route later and threatened spanking if an infraction has incurred 3 or 4 times. Now the behavior just stops there.

It's not cold and calculating. It's just that he likes to see how far he can push. We've learned not to let him control us so much it goes to 16 times anymore, and we have a child who rarely needs any discipline.

 

[kaw1218]

So you punished the child because you did not keep keep the scissors somewhere where children can't get to them and because you did not have outlet covers? The only time mine were ever out was when I was using them.
I had automatic locks on the car doors so that my kids could not open them.

Ok, this came off as very judgmental...Please let me explain more... I started off as a spanker..
I totally understand the immediate urge to spank when a child puts their life in danger... When my DS was small he opened the window, pushed the screen out and went for a walk.. I panicked..Worst 10 minutes ever. After hugging him, I thought about punishing him so he wouldn't do it again. But then I realized it was my job to keep him safe..At two he didn't understand danger. He didn't understand consequences...
I got new bolts for the windows.
My kids didn't run out into the street unless I let go of their hands.If I let go of their hand and they ran in the street that would be my fault , when they are that small it's my job to protect them..
I doubt a small child has any clue about the dangers involved in opening a car door and even though it might be my instinct to spank them for doing so it was my job to make sure a small child is safe and secure inside of a car.
I screwed up a lot with my kids..I made mistakes, so I'm not picking on people who spank..I have my own issues..I just don't agree with spanking a child for doing something dangerous..It's my job to protect them from danger while they are small.

Fair enough...I also explained my situation better. My kids weren't 2. And old enough I believe to know they were wrong.

 

[kaw1218]

I'm sorry for the way I came off really....I went back and explained more.

 

[Magpie]

I'm particularly amused by people having the notion that spanking somehow isn't hitting. Try "spanking" a stranger and see how that works for you. Either you'll find yourself in trouble with the law, or you'll have a new friend who is very into leather.

Seriously, I've wondered about this, too. People talk about spanking kids who are under the age of reason. But some disabled adults never attain the age of reason. Is it okay to spank a 30 year old man, if he has the mental ability of a 4yo? Is it okay to spank him if it actually works to modify his behavior?

And, er... Something else occurred to me. If the notion behind spanking is that it is a quick painful consequence to bad behavior... then wouldn't electric shock also work on small children? I mean, we could have them wear a bracelet and set the voltage to something like a pin prick. Enough to get their attention, but not to hurt them. I bet THAT would work to keep them in line!

For the record, I'm not actually suggesting this! But if spanking works, then a lovingly administered shock would too. It might even work better as the consequence would be more immediate. Say a bad word and ZAP!

 

[JennyMominRI]

Fair enough...I also explained my situation better. My kids weren't 2. And old enough I believe to know they were wrong.

See there's the difference there..I didn't punish my kids for doing things that were dangerous until they were old enough to know they were doing something dangerous..On the other hand kid who knows it's wrong to do something and does it anyway(defiance) that REALLY ticks me off.. I can't stand it... It's disrespectful.. That's a whole different ball of wax from a small child doing something dangerous because they don't know any better.
Again, I really didn't mean to come off the way I did at first.

 

[C.Ann]

Exactly. It isn't even about the subject matter at hand, it's about the judgmental attitude of many of the posters. I don't often encounter adults who are so judgmental. It does bring in question the maturity level of so many who are supposedly adults.

If the decisions made regarding corporal punishment don't rise to the level of abuse, then why are so many so quick to belittle those who choose to spank. My personal opinion is that although I rarely spanked any of my 4 children, I don't believe a parent who does choose to do so is unfit or any less skilled at parenting than I am.

First and foremost though, is the fact that it isn't any of my business and it isn't my place to judge.

-----------------------------------------------

Well said..

 

[christiane]

I am unsure why the "pro-hitters" feel that the "anti-hitters" are being judgemental.

I re-read most of the posts and most people on both sides are just stating their opinions and what they do within their own families.

 

[Aidensmom]

For the record, I'm not actually suggesting this! But if spanking works, then a lovingly administered shock would too. It might even work better as the consequence would be more immediate. Say a bad word and ZAP!

And I could substitute:

For the record, I'm not actually suggesting this! But if time out works, then a lovingly administered shock would too. It might even work better as the consequence would be more immediate. Say a bad word and ZAP!




A smack on the butt and an electric shock are equal?

Is yelling at your child "NO!" when they are about to touch a hot burner the same as screaming at him "You worthless piece of crap, I don't know how anyone could love you, you are so dumb to try to touch the burner!!!"

 

[PatsGirl]

I was spanked and my kids were spanked ~~ I respect my parents and I hope that my children respect me. Last time I spanked DD was about six, DS about the same age too. I think they were both spanked a few times as toddlers/pre-school and then once or twice at 5 or 6 years old, nothing since then.

Does it count that I've wanted to throw the teen down the stairs more than once Never did it, but only because deep down I just knew it'd be wrong and bad kharma is not anything I want to deal with in my middle age

BTW, it's not always easy being Mom and Dad. I've often wanted to be the "good guy" but WTH was gonna be the "bad guy"

 

[darlak]

And I could substitute:

For the record, I'm not actually suggesting this! But if time out works, then a lovingly administered shock would too. It might even work better as the consequence would be more immediate. Say a bad word and ZAP!




A smack on the butt and an electric shock are equal?

Is yelling at your child "NO!" when they are about to touch a hot burner the same as screaming at him "You worthless piece of crap, I don't know how anyone could love you, you are so dumb to try to touch the burner!!!"

That was very well said, but I suspect it's lost on the 'other side'.

I am unsure why the "pro-hitters" feel that the "anti-hitters" are being judgemental.

I re-read most of the posts and most people on both sides are just stating their opinions and what they do within their own families.

You did read the post where someone said they considered spanking to be child abuse, right? You don't think that was judgmental and inflammatory?

I'm just confused as to why so many (though certainly not all) of the anti-spankers are so defensive.

 

[Magpie]

And I could substitute:

For the record, I'm not actually suggesting this! But if time out works, then a lovingly administered shock would too. It might even work better as the consequence would be more immediate. Say a bad word and ZAP!




A smack on the butt and an electric shock are equal?

Is yelling at your child "NO!" when they are about to touch a hot burner the same as screaming at him "You worthless piece of crap, I don't know how anyone could love you, you are so dumb to try to touch the burner!!!"

But time outs aren't physical painful. Isn't that the whole point of spanking? Isn't that why spanking works? Because it's a *physical* consequence?

Spanking is painful. Shocks are painful. Neither causes permanent lasting harm to the child. If pain is the point, then why does it matter how you administer it?

So... how do you make the connection "yelling is to verbal abuse as a spanking is to a shock"?

I *could* see the argument being made that spanking can be just as abusive - or not - as yelling. Because sometimes it's good to yell, and sometimes it isn't. Except, you can yell in a situation of great danger ("Stop!"), but you can't spank in a situation of great danger. Spanking requires pulling the child aside and making the decision to do it, with deliberation AFTER the child is out of danger. And - in general - I haven't found that yelling/lecturing at a kid is much use as a tool of discipline. So it's not a perfect comparison.

 

[Magpie]

That was very well said, but I suspect it's lost on the 'other side'.




You did read the post where someone said they considered spanking to be child abuse, right? You don't think that was judgmental and inflammatory?

I'm just confused as to why so many (though certainly not all) of the anti-spankers are so defensive.

I thought the child abuse comment was made specifically in relation to the way my mom spanked me, and the point being made was that not all spanking is abusive? Or did I read that wrong?

I'm finding this a fascinating discussion, personally.

 

[MrsPete]

Some of us were discussing spanking (as a form of discipline with children ) last night and I wonder how many people had one opinion about spanking before having children, and then had their opinion change. Is so, what did you believe and how do you now believe?

Nope. Before having children, I thought an occasional spanking administered properly is an effective discipline technique. Two children later, I think the same thing -- though mine are past the age that spanking is a good choice.

 

[Aidensmom]

So... how do you make the connection "yelling is to verbal abuse as a spanking is to a shock"?

All I can reply to that is how do you NOT see the connection?

I *could* see the argument being made that spanking can be just as abusive - or not - as yelling.

And there is your answer to the above.

And no, I would not spank my child for trying to touch a hot burner. I would yell "NO" or "STOP" (although there are people on this board who will say they've never even done that). So no, in THAT situation it is not comparable. However, analogies rarely use the same situation. If yelling "NO" to my child was adequate for every situation, I would have never spanked, I'll give you that one.

 

[darlak]

And, for the record, I think that physically accosting any child by the time they reach school age is indeed physical abuse. Parenting a toddler can, by nature, be very physical... After that, I do feel that spanking can be considered physically and emotionally abusive.

I think that statement was just a general observation, not specific to any one poster's situation.

I thought the child abuse comment was made specifically in relation to the way my mom spanked me, and the point being made was that not all spanking is abusive? Or did I read that wrong?

I'm finding this a fascinating discussion, personally.

I also find it interesting, but I'm just confused about the level of defensiveness. That was by no means the only post that I consider to be inflammatory.

 

[christiane]

Would anyone let another adult hit their child? If the answer is no, then why would you hit your own??

 

[Magpie]

All I can reply to that is how do you NOT see the connection?

Because pain is pain is pain. There's real parenting experts out there who say you should always use a paddle or switch when you spank a child, because a parent's hand should never be used to hurt or punish. There's other ones who say a paddle or switch is abusive. Me... I think a paddle can be applied lovingly and a hand can be applied abusively. I don't think it's HOW you cause the physical pain that matters. I think it's the fact that you are using pain as a method of punishment that matters.

That's why I don't see the difference between a spank and a shock (and no, I'm not talking about a big jolt, any more than I mean beating the kid bloody when I say "spank").

And there is your answer to the above.

And no, I would not spank my child for trying to touch a hot burner. I would yell "NO" or "STOP" (although there are people on this board who will say they've never even done that). So no, in THAT situation it is not comparable. However, analogies rarely use the same situation. If yelling "NO" to my child was adequate for every situation, I would have never spanked, I'll give you that one.

As I said, people will do what they think is right, and odds are their kids will turn out fine, because they have loving, thoughtful parents. But you know something? I wouldn't be trying sixteen other things before finally giving in and spanking.

Maybe the parent whose kid requires seventeen different punishments should go right to spanking, if that's what ultimately works. Why even bother with other punishments? I'm not convinced, however, that my personal goal is just to do whatever works.

Would you spank a kid if they bit you?

When my daughter was almost three, I bent down to pick up some toys. She BIT me on the butt! I whipped around and grabbed her arms. "WHY did you do that!?"

Sobbing, she said, "It seemed like a good idea at the time!"

I didn't punish her. What would be the point? She was already sorry. I had her pick up the rest of her toys by herself instead. Bite me and I won't help you!

In this case she did it (because she was sorry), but there were other times when she refused to put her toys away. I didn't spank her for defiance. I put the toy in her hand and led her over the toybox and dropped it in. Repeat ad infinitum ad nauseum. She eventually got the idea that it was easier to cooperate. And more fun!

I always told the kids - "It's my job to show you the right thing to do, and to make sure you do it, until you're old enough to do it yourselves." I don't think spanking would have helped me achieve this goal.

 

[CEDmom]

But time outs aren't physical painful. Isn't that the whole point of spanking? Isn't that why spanking works? Because it's a *physical* consequence?

Spanking is painful. Shocks are painful. Neither causes permanent lasting harm to the child. If pain is the point, then why does it matter how you administer it?

So... how do you make the connection "yelling is to verbal abuse as a spanking is to a shock"?

I *could* see the argument being made that spanking can be just as abusive - or not - as yelling. Because sometimes it's good to yell, and sometimes it isn't. Except, you can yell in a situation of great danger ("Stop!"), but you can't spank in a situation of great danger. Spanking requires pulling the child aside and making the decision to do it, with deliberation AFTER the child is out of danger. And - in general - I haven't found that yelling/lecturing at a kid is much use as a tool of discipline. So it's not a perfect comparison.

For some children making them sit in a time out or taking away a beloved toy is more painful than a spanking. I've spanked my DD8 on a few occasions and I can tell you for her that was a lot less painless than my taking away her blanky which I've also done once or twice.

Now, how does everyone feel about washing a child's mouth out with soap ? That's an oldie but a goodie .