palin: lowering the standard

[gmboy95]

Please show me where I presume to speak for anybody but myself and my point of view. I speak as a conservative, not necessarily a Republican. There is a difference. There are plenty of Republicans in D.C. (and elsewhere) that are not Conservative after all.

I see no reason for me to censor my personal opinion and point of view because someone somewhere doesn't agree with it. Plenty of room at the big table for dissent.

I dont think anyone is telling you not to share your opinion.....whatever happens, if we all cant come together to get this thing straightened out, we all will sink.

That means me here in blue massachusetts, and you in red texas!!

 

[LuvDuke]

Please show me where I presume to speak for anybody but myself and my point of view. I speak as a conservative, not necessarily a Republican. There is a difference. There are plenty of Republicans in D.C. (and elsewhere) that are not Conservative after all.

I see no reason for me to censor my personal opinion and point of view because someone somewhere doesn't agree with it. Plenty of room at the big table for dissent.

"Not necessarily a Republican" ......... hmmmm.

I've noticed an interesting trend. The closer we get to election day, the fewer the self-proclaimed Republicans. One would think the Republican ranks is shrinking. Or folks just don't want to admit it anymore. A puzzlement.

OTOH, not really. Hell, I wouldn't want to be associated with the Republican train wreck either.

 

[disney1990]

Exactly! If, God forbid, Sarah Palin ever reaches the oval office, we will be looking back at the GWB administration as 'enlightened times.'

OH MY, we can't let that happen.

 

[Mr Man]

I dont think anyone is telling you not to share your opinion.....whatever happens, if we all cant come together to get this thing straightened out, we all will sink.

That means me here in blue massachusetts, and you in red texas!!

You know, I have been looking forward to the day when we can agree on something. I am glad that day is today.

"Not necessarily a Republican" ......... hmmmm.

I've noticed an interesting trend. The closer we get to election day, the fewer the self-proclaimed Republicans. One would think the Republican ranks is shrinking. Or folks just don't want to admit it anymore. A puzzlement.

OTOH, not really. Hell, I wouldn't want to be associated with the Republican train wreck either.

Not at all. I put principle and ideals above Party.........always.

I believe the Republican Party is going to get a whole lot larger and starting real soon. Unfortunately for me, I believe it will be less conservative and more of a centrist/ big govt. kind of party (you know, what the Democrats used to be, before they got all kinds of Socialist).

I suspect there are a multitude of silent voters who are fleeing as fast as they can away from what used to be the Democrat Party. They are silent because they are sick of being bullied by the Far Left (who seized control of their party and are leading it to defeat and ignonimity).

Either way, we will know soon enough....less than 30 days now.

 

[gmboy95]

You know, I have been looking forward to the day when we can agree on something. I am glad that day is today.



Not at all. I put principle and ideals above Party.........always.

I believe the Republican Party is going to get a whole lot larger and starting real soon. Unfortunately for me, I believe it will be less conservative and more of a centrist/ big govt. kind of party (you know, what the Democrats used to be, before they got all kinds of Socialist).

I suspect there are a multitude of silent voters who are fleeing as fast as they can away from what used to be the Democrat Party. They are silent because they are sick of being bullied by the Far Left (who seized control of their party and are leading it to defeat and ignonimity).

Either way, we will know soon enough....less than 30 days now.

Ok now an unrelated question....where is spring texas???.....cowboys, or texans!!!!

 

[disney1990]

You know, I have been looking forward to the day when we can agree on something. I am glad that day is today.



Not at all. I put principle and ideals above Party.........always.

I believe the Republican Party is going to get a whole lot larger and starting real soon. Unfortunately for me, I believe it will be less conservative and more of a centrist/ big govt. kind of party (you know, what the Democrats used to be, before they got all kinds of Socialist).

I suspect there are a multitude of silent voters who are fleeing as fast as they can away from what used to be the Democrat Party. They are silent because they are sick of being bullied by the Far Left (who seized control of their party and are leading it to defeat and ignonimity).

Either way, we will know soon enough....less than 30 days now.

Actually, as a Registered Republican, I am running far away from the extreme Right that the McCain/Palin ticket represents.

You are right. We only have to put up with all of this for another 4 weeks.

 

[Mr Man]

Ok now an unrelated question....where is spring texas???.....cowboys, or texans!!!!

Texans area

We're gonna win a game someday.....it'll be a nice change.

One nice thing about having a losing team though......tickets are easy to get......season tickets are cheap...... the only negative is.......the team might draft you for back-bench Quarterback at any time........

sigh...... (low blow gmboy95 how can we fix our country if you keep reminding me of my crappy NFL team)......

 

[Mr Man]

Except for 1 thing Mr. Man,
That article was written back in September when Ms. Palin was first introduced, heck even us feminist (wink, wink) were praying that she really was a new, improved style of feminism. She has since proven that hope to be wrong.

Here is more recent material from Ms Paglia (who I love to read even though I disagree with her on many things......she bookends Christopher Hitchens nicely and I always refer to these two when I need a counterpoint to my paleo-conservative point of view).

Again, just my opinion but I think Ms Paglia is on to something.....that is

Liberals underestimate Sarah Palin’s vitality and — yes — smarts at their own peril

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/10/08/palin/index1.htmlhttp://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/10/08/palin/


Keep in mind Ms. Paglia is an OS herself. I forgive her this conceit and yet continue to marvel at her skill.

 

[Took]

I don't find Paglia to be any great shakes. There are many, many other women writers who are brighter and more insightful, but she is a star self-promoter, I'll have to give her that.

Come to think of it, it's no wonder she "admires" Sarah Palin.

 

[Judy from Boise]

I admire strong women, and the men who love them ! I was raised by my mom the "navy wife" while Dad was in south east asia for 4 years straight(he retired with 24 years active service). I live in Idaho, I am a republican, I think Palin is as dumb as a post.

just saying.

 

[Kathi OD]

Texans area

We're gonna win a game someday.....it'll be a nice change.

One nice thing about having a losing team though......tickets are easy to get......season tickets are cheap...... the only negative is.......the team might draft you for back-bench Quarterback at any time........

sigh...... (low blow gmboy95 how can we fix our country if you keep reminding me of my crappy NFL team)......

Waaaay OT here, but I LOVE your rookie RB, absolutely love him!
I only wished I lived close enough to actually get some of those easy-to-come-by tickets!

Of course, I'm a little prejudiced, since he is from my hometown and I had the pleasure to have him in my class when he was in grade school. Us teachers always like to see former students do well, whatever the endeavor.

 

[EveDallas]

Exactly! If, God forbid, Sarah Palin ever reaches the oval office, we will be looking back at the GWB administration as 'enlightened times.'

You betcha! *wink wink*

 

[bicker]

I believe the Republican Party is going to get a whole lot larger and starting real soon.... I suspect there are a multitude of silent voters who are fleeing as fast as they can away from what used to be the Democrat Party.

Quite the opposite. Many moderates supported the Republican Party, from Eisnenhower to Reagan, but the Republican Party was then co-opted by religious zealots, and chased many moderates from the GOP.

 

[yeartolate]

Quite the opposite. Many moderates supported the Republican Party, from Eisnenhower to Reagan, but the Republican Party was then co-opted by religious zealots, and chased many moderates from the GOP.

I agree. The pushing of wedge issues above all else (particularly in election time) has shaped the Republican party today. The Republican Party of today could have an economic marvel with strong foriegn policy experience that has the answer to the energy crisis, and he would be marginalized if he thought abortion and gay marriage was a decison best left to an individual.

 

[eliza61]

I believe the Republican Party is going to get a whole lot larger and starting real soon. Unfortunately for me, I believe it will be less conservative and more of a centrist/ big govt. kind of party (you know, what the Democrats used to be, before they got all kinds of Socialist).

I .

I actually see the opposite. I think Americans are really tired of the extreme Zealots on both sides of the parties. I don't think we want either religious ultra conservative or liberal free for all. I think it use to be called good ole common middle ground.

 

[themilesfamily]

She's not any kind of feminist.

Bicker, I think you're smart and I enjoy your posts, but I've got to say it....(and I say this in a spirit of friendship)...

Who are you to make pronouncements as to who's a feminist or not? Should I send my feminist credentials to you to be approved? If so, I'll need your address.

I think there is merit to the idea of Sarah Palin being a new kind of feminist.

I look at the feminists of old -- and who am I supposed to relate to? Gloria Steinem who married at the age of 66 and had no children? Her life is NOTHING like mine. Why should she set the agenda for feminism in the United States? How many women really live that lifestyle? And would Gloria Steinem have felt differently had she had children? What makes her the "ideal" for feminisim?

 

[bicker]

Who are you to make pronouncements as to ...

The nature of all these threads are people putting forward their own perspectives. However, in this case, you're absolutely correct about the message you replied to: I really should have written "I believe she is no kind of feminist." I'm updating my earlier message. Thanks for pointing out my lapse.

I think there is merit to the idea of Sarah Palin being a new kind of feminist.

I think by calling herself a feminist, she's just trying to co-opt a concept which is fundamentally different than what she believes -- effectively stealing the brand because she covets the power the brand affords. It is not much different, IMHO, than what happened to the GOP in the 1980s, when the good name of the Republican Party was co-opted by religious zealots, partially deflecting the party away from core pro-business and fiscally conservative values, by focusing a great deal of its efforts trying to impose the social values of some on everyone.

 

[themilesfamily]

I really should have written "I believe she is no kind of feminist."

Okay, that makes me feel better. lol

Here's a follow-up question. Why do you think she's not a feminist? Sarah Palin actually combined marriage, family and career. She walked the walk that feminists espouse. She's more powerful than her husband, probably earns more. Broke through the glass ceiling. (Only 30 women have EVER served as governors of their state.) What is disqualifying her as a feminist?

Do you make your judgement based solely on the pro-life/pro-choice issue? (I'm pro-life and I'm guessing my views mirror Sarah Palin's on that issue, BTW, but feel free to be frank.)

 

[bicker]

Especially given your earlier (very legitimate) concern about me making the pronouncement, perhaps it would be better to hear it from female feminists, since I could never adequately explain it from a woman's perspective. Here's a few samples I collected for you very quickly. They're by no means comprehensive, but they are representative.


Feminist writer Rebecca Traister says: "Palin's femininity is one that is recognisable to most women: she's the kind of broad who speaks on behalf of other broads but appears not to like them very much ... It's like some dystopian future ... feminism without any feminists."

"... anti-abortion policies do harm women: by putting many of them in a place where their only choices are to be physically, socially, or financially crippled or to seek out an illegal and likely unsafe procedure; by making some procedures which protect the mother's physical and mental health illegal or only quasi-legal; and by bringing suspicion on any woman who suffers a miscarriage or other extreme complication to her pregnancy." (blogger Orange_Orange)

"see: her cutting funding for a teen pregnancy center. see: her forcing rape victims to pay for their own rape kits..." (blogger katie8oandstuff)

"Sarah Palin is disgustingly right wing, anti-choice and has no record of representing women’s interests ... Basically, she ... wants to tell people everywhere that if they have sex, that woman better be damn ready to squeeze out that baby in 9 months. ... When it comes to other issues of women, such as equal pay for equal work, she is following McCain’s lead and isn’t even on the record. ... Elected officials can’t defy the court when it comes to how rights are applied, she said, but she would support a ballot question that would deny benefits to homosexual couples [which, of course, includes lesbian, who are women]." (menstrualpoetry.com)

"No matter what feminist theory one chooses to advocate, each focuses on improving the lives of women through the validation of women’s agency and the affirmation of women’s bodily integrity. When we consider Palins positions from a feminist lens, she is clearly not a feminist. ... Palin is a problematic figure, not because she is a woman, but because she is a woman who has internalized patriarchal values. As an individual, believing that life begins at conception, and that abortion is murder is not in and of itself a non feminist belief. The pro life stance becomes anti-feminist the moment that said belief is transferred to another body. Feminism is about validating the choices of women, respecting privacy and a woman’s bodily integrity; therefore by applying ones belief to the body of another, Palin is participating in an anti-feminist belief system. ... Another stance that causes feminists to take issue with Palin was the billing of rape victims for rape kits while she was mayor of Wasilla. Charging a woman to identify her rapist cannot be reasonably claimed as an act supporting women, or society at large. ... This sends the message that woman are either somehow at fault for the sexual violation, or that men deserve to have continual access to women’s bodies. ... Unfortunately, she took further measures to ensure that the women of Alaska would remain second class citizens. According to Newsweek, Palin cut funding to Covenant House by 20% . Covenant House provides residency for teenage mothers so that they can make the adjustment to parenting and learn valuable skills like money management. ... Palin has also voided funds for two other similar projects during her tenure as governor. One, a provider of the WIC (Women, Infants, Children) Program, would have provided additional breastfeeding and nutrition support to low-income rural women, for a total cost of $15,840. Another, the Cook Inlet Housing Authority’s student housing and daycare facility project, would have built a childcare facility and family-style housing units for students pursuing vocational education in Anchorage, most of whom come from rural areas. ... To be clear, none of the aforementioned actions undertaken by Palin in office conform to feminist ideals." (Renee Martin)

 

[themilesfamily]

Ohhhh my goodness, where to begin... I know I'm being picky-choosy here, but I don't want this post to be 20 pages long!

Feminist writer Rebecca Traister says: "Palin's femininity is one that is recognisable to most women: she's the kind of broad who speaks on behalf of other broads but appears not to like them very much ... "

I don't see that or agree with that, and I'm a woman. Traister's pronouncement is simply one woman's opinion -- and is totally subjective and doesn't prove anything. Put 100 women in a room -- 50 will feel like me, 50 will feel like Traister.

And on the whole, isn't whether someone is "not a feminist" totally subjective and unable to be proven either way? That's what makes it such a successful political argument -- just like "she's not smart" or "they're not patriotic" often works so well and is so often utilized.

"As an individual, believing that life begins at conception, and that abortion is murder is not in and of itself a non feminist belief. The pro life stance becomes anti-feminist the moment that said belief is transferred to another body."

As stated, I am against abortion. I believe that killing a fetus is killing a child. But in the end, whether or not abortion will be legal is inherently a decision based on the collective morality. There are many freedoms that are curtailed in the United States based on morality -- that deny the freedoms of some to engage in the behavior they choose -- and abortion has historically been one of them. I'm sure we'll go back and forth on this issue in perpetuity.

According to Newsweek, Palin cut funding to Covenant House by 20% . Covenant House provides residency for teenage mothers so that they can make the adjustment to parenting and learn valuable skills like money management. ...

I work at EXACTLY this kind of facility. I work part-time at a facility for adolescents coming out of the foster care system. We teach the kids independent living skills like money management, how to get a job, etc. And you know what, our budget SHOULD be cut. We have anywhere from 10-30 kids at any given time and a staff of approximately 30 with THREE (yes, three) full-time supervisors. For 30 kids. If a governor came in and cut our budget, I'm sure he or she would be portrayed in the press as the devil who took money away from foster kids -- but in reality it is disgusting how much we spend on such a small number of kids and our funding should be cut.

So I say that social programs should not be above fiscal responsibility -- that there is fat to be trimmed -- and we should not punish the politicans who are willing to do it.

As for asking women to pay for rape kits? Are those rape tests that are done in the hospital? Is it billed as a medical expense?

EDITED TO ADD: Bicker you are not only smart, but clearly well-read -- what an impressive array of quotes you pulled together so quickly!! You clearly read a lot, as do I. I love that you pulled from such a wide variety of sources.