Owning property w/a relative; I have a question

[Kitten]

I'm hoping to get some info from the all knowing Disboards

My DH and I, along with my parents bought a small vacation home about 15 years ago. The plan was that we would all use it in the summers and when my parents retired they would make it their retirement home. I had no problem with that...we actually spent the first 10 years of ownership fixing it up (new roof, siding, pellet stove) just so they could use it for 3 seasons. The home is paid in full with all 4 names on the deed (mine, DH, Mom and Dad).

My Mom passed away suddenly almost 5 years ago.

So here is my question....my Dad now has a new lady friend in his life, I assume they will eventually get married. What legal rights will his new wife have to this property? Her name is not on the deed, but if my Dad passes and she is a beneficiary , would she now be owning the property with me?

TIA everyone

 

[believe]

I would think that he could will his part to her and then she would be part owner with you.

 

[Darcy03231]

It depends on how the property is held (joint tenants with rights of survivorship or tenants in common with each of you owning 1/4 undivided interest or each couple owning 1/2 undivided interest). If you own it as joint tenants with rights of survivorship, you, your husband and dad now own it. If your dad predeceases you you and your husband would now own it. If you each own an undivided 1/4 and your mom willed her share to your dad, you now own 1/4, your DH owns 1/4 and your dad owns half. He can deed a portion of his half to his new "friend" but if he leaves it the way it is, he will need to dispose of his half in his will. The best thing to do is to contact a real estate attorney in your area, bring your deed in and discuss it with him.

 

[tnmt]

This is what happened to us. Mom deeded her land to me and 2 brothers. We are all married to our spouses. Mom decided she wanted land back so she could sell it and keep the money. Fine but our spouses each had to sign for her to get the land back so she could sell it. The lawyer said the spouses were entitled to their part it if they didn't sign the paper. Seems like if he did marry then yes she would have an interest in the land. I would just have him sign it over to you before he marries or at least have a will made up or something, but I am not a lawyer. I would definite seek legal counsel on this one, unless you don't mind sharing with dad's new wife. Don't you just love it when people give you something and then take it back later.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I am going to say once she marries your dad she will automatically have ownership, unless she signs a prenup excluding the home. That is my guess.

If your dad does indeed marry and plans to retire there, the smart thing to do would be one of 2 things.

You could buy his half out and then charge them rent for the place or you sell out to him. I would do one or the other if indeed he was to marry.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Without going through a lawyer, go to the Office of Recorder of Deeds in the jurisdiction where the property is located. Find out from them exactly how the property is recorded. They should be able to give you information at no cost to you, especially if your name is on the deed.

But also, it may require action from all three of you to allow an additional (or replacement) name on the deed.

 

[Tink888]

As another poster mentioned it depends on how tenancy is stated (joint tenancy, tenants in common, etc). and also what state the property is located in. There are some states where a marriage automatically produces rights to a spouses property regardless of whether or not the new spouse is listed on the deed.

I would contact a real estate attorney in the area where the property is located for advice.

 

[DisneyMim]

I would get a lawyer as soon as possible. Good Luck.

 

[bookgirl]

My dad, stepmom and brother are buying a house together. My dad and stepmom are moving back to this state and will live in the house, my brother will bespending time there as well (house at lake). They are buying the house together, but will have a survivorship document. As in if my dad dies first, she can live out her life there but at her death it will go to my brother. If she decides she no longer wants to live there, she can not sell or give away her portion untill my brother has had the choice to buy her out.

 

[Kitten]

Thanks everyone for your replies!!

I just checked the deed and it states "Mom and Dad to hold as tenants by the entirety an undivided one half interest" and the same for me and DH. So I guess right now since my Dad was the sole beneficiary of my Mom's assets, that he owns 50% , I own 25% and DH 25%.

Just to clarify...I do not want to own the property with the new wife.

I'm just trying to think of all my options here....buying Dad out seems logical but not what I planned on doing at this point in my life with 2 kids going to college soon. A pre-nup also would be great (for me) but I don't think the new wife will go for that. The way my parents will was drawn up (many years ago) was that I would get the vacation home when they passed, my sister would get their primary home. That leaves new wife with nada. I never had the foresight to think of the "what if" one of my parents remarries scenerio.

 

[claudia]

Thanks everyone for your replies!!

I just checked the deed and it states "Mom and Dad to hold as tenants by the entirety an undivided one half interest" and the same for me and DH. So I guess right now since my Dad was the sole beneficiary of my Mom's assets, that he owns 50% , I own 25% and DH 25%.

Just to clarify...I do not want to own the property with the new wife.

I'm just trying to think of all my options here....buying Dad out seems logical but not what I planned on doing at this point in my life with 2 kids going to college soon. A pre-nup also would be great (for me) but I don't think the new wife will go for that. The way my parents will was drawn up (many years ago) was that I would get the vacation home when they passed, my sister would get their primary home. That leaves new wife with nada. I never had the foresight to think of the "what if" one of my parents remarries scenerio.

I would speak with an attorney on this.
I believe that property held before a marriage remains sole property of the orginal owner....meaning that unless your dad willed his portion to the new wife it will become yours when your dad passes. But, I do think that any increase of value from the time they married until your dads passing could be claimed by the wife.
IMHO I think you should have a heart to heart with your dad and an attorney now, before a marriage, to guarantee the outcome of the original agreement.
Also, your sister should speak with your dad too if the primary home is still owned by him.....the same scenario will apply to the primary and vacation home.

 

[wdwfan16]

I would assume that your dad got your mom's 1/4 when she passed, so he now owns 1/2 of the home. If he were to marry and will the home to his new wife she would own 1/2 when he died.

If it was me I would buy him out now so you do not lose the home or if you do not want it that bad, then let him buy your out. This could get ugly in the future.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Thanks everyone for your replies!!

I just checked the deed and it states "Mom and Dad to hold as tenants by the entirety an undivided one half interest" and the same for me and DH. So I guess right now since my Dad was the sole beneficiary of my Mom's assets, that he owns 50% , I own 25% and DH 25%.

Just to clarify...I do not want to own the property with the new wife.

I'm just trying to think of all my options here....buying Dad out seems logical but not what I planned on doing at this point in my life with 2 kids going to college soon. A pre-nup also would be great (for me) but I don't think the new wife will go for that. The way my parents will was drawn up (many years ago) was that I would get the vacation home when they passed, my sister would get their primary home. That leaves new wife with nada. I never had the foresight to think of the "what if" one of my parents remarries scenerio.

If you do not want to own with the future stepmom then I would ask dad for a buyout and let the property go. Save yourself the anguish.

 

[Dancemom03]

Are they both over 65? If your kids are nearing college age, I'm guessing they're probably close to that mile marker but could be wrong... It's not financially advantageous for many seniors today to marry and I'm finding a lot of older folks I know with long-term relationships but no marriage planned due to finances. It could be they aren't considering marriage but will maintain a close relationship instead.

Both my parents and DH's parents remarried after divorces so I understand your concerns. I think it'd be easier to speak with your dad about his wishes and any arrangements/modifications you'd like now. Plan some time for just the two of you to sit down and have lunch or something to discuss what his plans might be. Maybe offer to accompany him on a car ride somewhere even. I've found that, with my parents, it's much easier to discuss potentially serious issues casually while "trapped" in the car on the way to the doctor's or somewhere. He may not even have thought that far ahead himself and might be very receptive to your feelings. I'd consult a real estate attorney just to clarify what your options would be without taking any action of course, then I'd speak with my dad to ask about his plans, encouraging him to document whatever might be needed to ensure that happens.

When DH's dad died years ago, the kids lost out completely. DFIL had casually mentioned to the kids over the years that "things had been taken care of" in the event he passed away first but it wasn't anything anybody ever thought about. At sixty, he seemed young and his health wasn't perfect but it wasn't awful either. Within a month of his death, his second wife took or sold nearly all possessions, moved into the vacation home they kept in another state, and nobody has seen or heard from her since - unless you count one generic card that first Christmas and random newspaper society page mentions from her small town that we'll hear about later.

 

[sunnyday123]

It depends on how the property is held (joint tenants with rights of survivorship or tenants in common with each of you owning 1/4 undivided interest or each couple owning 1/2 undivided interest). If you own it as joint tenants with rights of survivorship, you, your husband and dad now own it. If your dad predeceases you you and your husband would now own it. If you each own an undivided 1/4 and your mom willed her share to your dad, you now own 1/4, your DH owns 1/4 and your dad owns half. He can deed a portion of his half to his new "friend" but if he leaves it the way it is, he will need to dispose of his half in his will. The best thing to do is to contact a real estate attorney in your area, bring your deed in and discuss it with him.

do this.

 

[sbell111]

Perhaps you could just let your dad decide what he wants to do with his stuff.

 

[horseshowmom]

Perhaps you could just let your dad decide what he wants to do with his stuff.

While I do agree with you to a point, this particular issue isn't just "his" stuff. The house was purchased with her parents - not her dad and somebody else. The OP is being wise to consider the issue now rather than later since it will affect her personally.

I wonder if the simplest thing wouldn't be for her dad to make sure she is left his half of the cabin in his will and her sister left his half of the primary residence? Of course, the OP might have to worry about changes being made in the will afterwards without her knowledge.

OP, if you can swing it, it would probably be best to discuss buying out your dad's half with him. I'm sure he can see where you're coming from.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Perhaps you could just let your dad decide what he wants to do with his stuff.

If the OP does not want to own property jointly with a possible stepmom that is for her to decide not her father.

She can ask for a buyout of the property (her or him) and I think it is a reasonable request.

 

[bumbershoot]

I would talk to your dad about this before going to an attorney.

Couldn't this be solved by him updating his will and specifying what he wants to do with his part of the property? Of course he would deal with a lawyer at that point, but surely talking to *him* is the first step...


My mom and stepdad had their stuff all worked out...whoever died first, their money went to the other, and when that one died, the money would be split in 4, between me, brother, stepbrother, stepsister. Well, he married 10 days before the 3rd anniversary of mom's death (time is irrelevant to this, but it's relevant to me and today would have been my mom's birthday so it's "up" for me), and now we can ONLY assume that the money is going to be divided into 6? me, brother, stepbrother, stepsister, and his new wife's kids??? Which seems *drastically* unfair.

And hopefully it seems unfair to her kids, too, as she was a wealthy enough woman going into the marriage, and they wouldn't want their mom's money going to absolute strangers either.

I'd ask my stepdad...but I don't know that I want to know how he defines being honorable in this situation....


But if we owned property...I'd be asking him.

 

[KiminChicago]

When DH's dad died years ago, the kids lost out completely. DFIL had casually mentioned to the kids over the years that "things had been taken care of" in the event he passed away first but it wasn't anything anybody ever thought about. At sixty, he seemed young and his health wasn't perfect but it wasn't awful either. Within a month of his death, his second wife took or sold nearly all possessions, moved into the vacation home they kept in another state, and nobody has seen or heard from her since - unless you count one generic card that first Christmas and random newspaper society page mentions from her small town that we'll hear about later.

This happened to my dad too. Grandpa remarried a few years before he died but he always told my dad that there were things put aside for my dad that he wanted my dad to have. I don't know what happened, but we never saw any of the things Grandpa had put away for our family. Some of it would have been really interesting to have -- my grandfather was a pretty good billiards player and played Minnesota Fats. All we have left is a cane from Japan that converts into a cue stick which he gave us before he died.....