oversold?

[BobCosta]

Does anyone else feel that DVC is oversold?
Although it has not happened to me yet.I am hearing from family
that they are have a tough time getting ressies where they want.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

There are requirements/restrictions Disney must meet when selling their timeshares. Each point represents a percentage interest, and the conversion of that interest is regulated.

I think there is more to your point then you mention (or even know). Are the individuals going during a peak season? When are they booking, are they trying at their home resort?

 

[ShkNBak911]

I am 99.9% sure DVC has oversold which is ILLEGAL but how would anyone prove it?? The economy is the worst its been in 20+ years, yet its almost impossible to make DVC reservations? Doesnt add up to me. My family has been discussing this topic for the past year on how its so odd that we can never seem to get the reservations we want. Whats a person to do though??

 

[twinklebug]

DVC sells out its allocated inventory. They don't create pretend units to sell. If a resort is 'sold out' but more points become avilable,it may be because they will converted sales/demo areas into rooms which they can sell later or from ROFRs.

I am positive Disney does NOT oversell.

Please tell us Where\when\what reservations your family is trying to get?
It will be hard to get the reservations you want if you wait or if you choose to go during a particularly popular or even moderately popular time of year. Why? Think about it. The points sold are for use year round, but if 50% of the owners want to make reservations during the 25% most popular times it'll be very difficult to get that room you want. (picture splitting a Kitchen sink with 6 people... and everyone wants the chocolate icecream and cherries)

 

[ShkNBak911]

It seems a little fishy when you try making reservations at your home resort 11 months out yet its booked?!?! And they are very very eager to get you into a DVC resort that isnt as expensive as the your home resort. I bet if I called right now and said I had cash in hand to stay at the Boardwalk Villas surprisingly rooms would be available. Why wouldnt they want to rent out a villa to someone with cash vs DVC? They can make a lot more money that way! Im not trying to say anything negative about it, but its just business...and I guess business can be a very greedy thing. They already have my money, they can make me stay wherever they want me to. Its just kind of upsetting when you spend all the upfront money plus dues and you cant even stay at your home resort. This is coming from several attempts, different times of the year. I guess it is what it is and like I just was talking with my husband about, we arent in the room 24/7 so I guess it doesnt really matter where we stay. Stressing out about where we lie our heads at night shouldnt be a big deal, but I just find it interesting that someone else had the same thought/question about it to start up a post, kind of makes you wonder how many others feel the same.

 

[bessjlj]

I completely agree with you, BCV is our home resort and even at the 11-month mark this year we weren't able to get our preferred dates for January. The same thing happened last year (albeit it was after the 11-month mark). We have run into this same situation whether it be for reservations in March, September, October, December or January. However, if we wanted to spend $500 a night paying directly to Disney we could've secured a villa at BWV for any of those times, it's more than just a bit aggravating and leaves me to believe we won't be adding anymore points until something changes with DVC soon. We joined DVC for ease of mind in planning future vacations, and chose BCV precisely because of the convenience of the location. It's more than a bit unfair when we're forced to stay at an inconvenient location such as Saratoga these days (if that's even available).

 

[Chuck S]

It seems a little fishy when you try making reservations at your home resort 11 months out yet its booked?!?! And they are very very eager to get you into a DVC resort that isnt as expensive as the your home resort. I bet if I called right now and said I had cash in hand to stay at the Boardwalk Villas surprisingly rooms would be available. Why wouldnt they want to rent out a villa to someone with cash vs DVC? They can make a lot more money that way! Im not trying to say anything negative about it, but its just business...and I guess business can be a very greedy thing. They already have my money, they can make me stay wherever they want me to. Its just kind of upsetting when you spend all the upfront money plus dues and you cant even stay at your home resort. This is coming from several attempts, different times of the year. I guess it is what it is and like I just was talking with my husband about, we arent in the room 24/7 so I guess it doesnt really matter where we stay. Stressing out about where we lie our heads at night shouldnt be a big deal, but I just find it interesting that someone else had the same thought/question about it to start up a post, kind of makes you wonder how many others feel the same.

Don't worry, the State of Fl could easily check to see if a resort was illegally oversold. AS far as cash rooms, those become available because 1)Disney retains a small ownership interest 2)any points DVC may have because of foreclosure or ROFR, or simply unsold points 3)member trade outs to the Disney collection, Adventures by Disney or a cruise.

Rooms also may not available to points or cash because they are placed in to II inventory when an owner trades to an II location. Technically that room is rented to member on points, but then used to exchange.

Also, even booking right at 11 months, the "new" booking policy of 11 months + 7 has potential to affect those bookings, but I wouldn't expect to see any indication of that, except perhaps during Christmas/New Year and Easter/Spring Break windows. And we currently have no data to support that at all, as this January will be the first holiday booking season since it was implmented.

 

[CarolMN]

Respectfully, I do not believe that any resort has been completely sold out at the 11 month mark, except perhaps NYE night.

Sometimes the newer members misunderstand the booking rules. They think they can't book until their use year starts and the points are in their account. But that's not correct. This turns out to be a big reason for some of their frustrations. Once they understand, the "probelm" goes away.

Whenever I have heard complaints about the BWV selling out at the 11 month window, it turns out that the member wanted a standard view or a Boardwalk view unit and was not willing to book a Garden/Pool unit. It's not correct to say the resort was sold out in those cases - a limited type of room may sell out quickly, but a BWV owner should always be able to book at least a Pool/Garden view unit if he/she calls when the 11 month window first opens.

FWIW, we have owned the BWV since 1999 and stayed there many, many times. I nearly always book at 11 months and I have never encountered a sold out situation - even though we always book the more limited standard view units and stay during the popular early December and Food & Wine time periods.

Perhaps NYE night sells out in one day, but that would be the only time I can ever imagine that the BWV would be sold out at the 11 month window. Otherwise, it just doesn't happen. (It may with the booking change to be from "check in" rather than"check out", but that remains to be seen. The new system hasn't been in effect long enough to see how it will work for the really popular times of the year).

DVC cannot legally "oversell". I do not believe they have. The system is designed to be at or near capacity every night of the year. The reservation system works on a first come, first served basis. There is no guarantee that members will be able to stay when or where they prefer. Members who do not book early may have to stay at the less popular times in the less popular units. The system is designed such that the early bird gets the worm.

If members don't get what they want, it isn't because the resorts are oversold.

 

[JimMIA]

Our family's experiences with booking -- even booking pretty last-minute -- have always been very good. Both of my daughters tend to book within 2-3 months of arrival, but they've always been successful. The only time they've had to waitlist has been NYE.

I book farther out, but still usually in the seven-month window. I haven't had any trouble, but we avoid the really busy periods. If I were trying to book Thanksgiving - New Years, I'd certainly book early in the 11-month window at my home resort.

I agree with some of the other posters that often these "booking problems" are really just rookie mistakes. For example, the comment about no availability for points ressies, but CRO having cash availability is a dead giveaway that someone doesn't understand the system.

DVC is pretty complicated, and it takes a while to figure things out. This forum is a great place to learn, and is probably responsible for our success rate.

 

[toocherie]

I own at SSR, but just booked BWV during Flower and Garden next March/April and had no problem booking a studio in the pool-garden category for 6 nights at the 7 month window.

 

[ShkNBak911]

I agree with some of the other posters that often these "booking problems" are really just rookie mistakes. For example, the comment about no availability for points ressies, but CRO having cash availability is a dead giveaway that someone doesn't understand the system.

DVC is pretty complicated, and it takes a while to figure things out. This forum is a great place to learn, and is probably responsible for our success rate.

Actually, I am not a "rookie" ive been a member for almost 10 years. Maybe thats why I seem to think things have lately become difficult when in the past it hasnt been an issue.

 

[ont/ohana]

We have never been unable to secure any of our reservations. We have booked trips at 11 months to 3 months. We've booked January, March, September, November and December including NYE twice.

 

[Dean]

DVC isn't oversold given that it's sold to about 96% of the points for the entire year. However, the nature of most points system is that a far greater % of members buy with the intent of using at peak times than there are rooms. The one thing that has protected DVC owners is that often members haven't been aggressive in reserving far in advance. The system is essentially set up such that a certain amount of points will be lost every year.

 

[wulfekamp]

I hate to say this but I have always gotten the resort I wanted when I wanted. But I don't ask for any certain view. I do get my reservation the first day its available to book.

 

[Goofy's apprentice]

We have always been able to get a reservation. Usually book at 11 months, but have booked at two months. Just booked VWL for second week of March last week. Have been able to get BWV and BCV during the last week of Food and Wine.

Some reservations are harder to get at the popular times of year but those are very focused by date and by the smaller resort/popular room view.


Legally Disney can not oversell. The rules are very precise and it certainly would not be a smart move on their part. They are investing real money in new resort development because they can sell those points. They don't need to 'oversell' existing resorts and break the law.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Actually, I am not a "rookie" ive been a member for almost 10 years. Maybe thats why I seem to think things have lately become difficult when in the past it hasnt been an issue.

Ten years ago, there were only BWV, OKW, HHI and VB owners competing for the same villas. Now, while there are more resorts to choose from, there are more members competing for them. And more members want to stay at the BCV and BWV during F&W festival - instead of OKW, VB, SSR, HHI, VWL and AKV. Or more members want that cheaper GV at OKW and more people are trying to get it at 7 months out.

 

[drusba]

For each resort, they sell the amount of points that it would take to fill the rooms nightly for 51 weeks of the year (i.e., the DVC inventory of rooms which is about 96% of each resort). That is legally not oversold. However, there are several factors that can make it seem that they are oversold, e.g.:

1. There are a number of times of year when demand exceeds available rooms such as any holidays, much of December when you have low point cost and all the Christmas decorations, food and wine time, most spring break weeks.

2. The weekday/weekend dilemma: weekdays (Sun through Thurs night) cost significantly less than weekends. Vast numbers take advantage of that by going only weekdays. Consider someone who has enough points for a week but instead of going for 7 consecutive nights that includes a Fri and Sat, they can get 9 nights a year by just using points for weekdays; result when large numbers are doing that: demand for weekdays significantly exceeds availability most times of year. It is noteworthy that Fri and Sat nights can often be found available most times of year even at a few months out when it is otherwise impossible to get weekdays.

3. The larger resort v smaller resort 7 month issue. SSR and OKW are the largest resorts, combined they have close to or more than 50% of all owners. Also, neither is a "close-to-a park" resort. When it was just OKW, there was never really much of an issue of getting overwhelming demand from OKW owners at 7 months for rooms at BWV, VWL and BCV. The likely explanation: most who owned at OKW preferred staying at OKW every time they went because, among other reasons, it has larger rooms and significantly lower point costs. SSR is lower point cost but not a great difference. Room sizes are the same as BWV, BCV, and SSR. The 7 month demand for BWV, BCV and VWL has greatly increased with the addition of SSR and thus it has become difficult to find rooms at those three many times of year at less than 7 months out. BCV and VWL have the added issue of being very small resorts in comparison to SSR.

4. The smaller contract issue: Originally, when it was just OKW a new buyer had to purchase a large number of points (Can't remember actual number but it was well into the 200s). That was steadily lowered over the years although it is now "up" to 160 (but AKV even had a 100 point deal). In the last eight years, internet sales have grown from almost nothing to a major resale market, and that has resulted in a large small contract market where there are large numbers of "add-on" contracts of less than 100 points being sold. The result: there are now a lot of owners with a low number of points (for example under 150 each). Thus, you have far more owners (even though with the same amount of total points) competing for those high demand times of year and those Sun to Thurs night stays. In other words, you just have far more owners competing for the times that were already high demand.

5. The home resort safety reservation: Have an owner not get a ressie at his home resort and he quickly learns his lesson -- book at 11 months out. Much larger percentage are doing that now than in earlier years. Also, larger percentage are booking home resort now at 11 months even when they want another resort at 7. The more that do those things, the harder it becomes for even owners to get high demand times of year at 8 to 9 months out and they have to start waiting until "switch" time right at 7 months to get their own resort, causing more of them to start making all their ressies at 11 months out. In other words, the more that report having a problem the more members who will feel that they must reserve at 11 months, thus adding to the problem.

 

[CraftyMouse]

Actually, I am not a "rookie" ive been a member for almost 10 years. Maybe thats why I seem to think things have lately become difficult when in the past it hasnt been an issue.

I think it was your comment about points vs. cash reservations that made some think you were new to DVC. Points and cash reservations come from completely separate inventories. Some nights are sold for cash when members trade out to other destinations (The Concierge Collection, DCL, Disneyland or Disneyland Paris, etc.) so that DVC can pay for those stays. DVC also retains a 4% ownership in each resort. Sometimes that percentage is used up with rooms closed for refurbishment, but when no refurbishment is going on they become cash nights.

So your complaint ("I bet if I called right now and said I had cash in hand to stay at the Boardwalk Villas surprisingly rooms would be available. Why wouldnt they want to rent out a villa to someone with cash vs DVC? They can make a lot more money that way!") shows an incomplete understanding of how the program works.

 

[Goofy's apprentice]

Drusba....great summary of all the various issues affecting reserrvation availability !

 

[Golden Rose]

I think we've also been seeing some lessened availability because of people using developer's points in the last years. For a while, AKV was offering double developers points and they're still offering developers points... and I know they are from a different pool and subject to different rules.

I think that, and the fact that there are more owners in general that account for greatly decreased availability in the more popular times of year.