Our 4th FP+ of the day...

[mom2rtk]

Here is something I think will be reported as Disney holding back:

I log onto MDE at earliest date and am offered a menu of time slots for the attractions I want. I choose them.

Depending on my level of knowledge, I either go back in and change, opening up an expanded list of times - or - I keep.

Either way, I haven't seen every available slot because providing this to every guest real time is close to impossible. Changes are happening to the inventory on the back end by the minute, with some guests taking and some giving back. No system can be built to keep up, so on the front end I see a general idea of what is available.

Depending on the rate of updating, entering the same parameters an hour from now could look quite a bit different than now.

Then I run into a no-nothing at the park who tripped over primo FPs by accident 5 minutes ago.


This is why I rarely use TicketMaster for events at the 12,000 seat arena 10 minutes away. The arena system has all of the tickets.

It probably won't surprise anyone to hear that I also don't use Ticketmaster. I go to the arena in person for the same reason as you.

 

[mom2rtk]

Fair shmare. I've never been interested in fair. I'm only interested in maximizing my own vacation. Me. Just me. And if Disney holding back some fast passes allows me to maximize my vacation at the expense of somebody missing out earlier? I'm okay with that.

Long live the extra 4th 5th and so on fast passes!

That's a little long for a slogan. Or a tattoo.

 

[ciera321]

That's great news! Have fun!

I'm pretty sure now that they are holding back FP's to release during the course of the day now. They must be. To be able to book TSM at 4 pm for a return time 3 hours later? I don't think we were able to get one after lunch time in early September...

I agree, and I feel it's a very fair way to handle the 4th (and beyond) FP+! Looking forward to trying out the new FP+ next month!!!!

 

[wisblue]

Unless you went online at 60, 30 and/or 7 days out and found none at the time you wanted because Disney decided to hold all of the 6 PM FP+s to released them at 3:00 PM the day of. Don't you think that if you were online at 60 days out that you deserved to have that spot you wanted?

I am not trying to say that I think this is happening, just that Disney holding any FP+s back to release at any later point really seems to be more unfair than the paper FPs. Everything was released at the beginning of the day, everyone saw the same thing and everyone pulled from the same pool.

Holding some back makes something available for everyone, including the guests who show up and buy a ticket at the gate for same day use.

I don't see this as any different than a concert promoter releasing some prime seats right before a show or an airline lowering its fares for a flight that isn't selling out. There have always been situations in which first come isn't always first served, and I just choose not to get worked up about it over something as trivial as one more ride on something that I have experienced several times before, especially because I know that I can always do it first thing in the morning if I don't have a FP for it.

 

[MrInfinity]

But see.... for that "magic" to happen, something "unmagical" has to happen. Someone else has to miss out. That's the problem with it.

True, but someone will miss out no matter what. You're suggesting "planners" get all of the good stuff and spontaneous visitors get none. I'm saying that a little more balanced is okay... planners get some, spontaneous visitors get some. And nobody is excluded from being the beneficiary of the random luck... it could just was well benefit you or I as anyone else.

 

[PlutoMars]

But see.... for that "magic" to happen, something "unmagical" has to happen. Someone else has to miss out. That's the problem with it.

And that happened under the old FP- system as well.

It was just as much of a problem

 

[clsteve]

I would just say UNLESS Disney is holding back FP+. I have no idea if they are or not but the reports of nothing being open for certain ride at 8:30 and then many spots opening right after RD seems to point in that direction. But it is not a fairer system if Disney isn't putting all the FP+s out at the same time.

If you signed on at 60 days out to get your A&E FP+ to find them all gone, you wouldn't be a bit upset to see someone get one at 9:05 the day of? I am not trying to imply this is going to be a huge problem. But what I am saying is I don't like the idea that Disney is trying to control their guest. Put all of what you have out there at 60 days and let the chips fall where they may. And this is from someone that is hitting on 30 days and still haven't booked all of our FP+s.

Hub saying a certain percentage are held back for day-of makes sense. If we knew the percentage of same day (or purchased within a week, or so) tickets guests Disney has- that would be part of it. I doubt WDW wants to be known as "the Parks you can't ride anything good unless you reserve 60-30 days out."

We also know they're now beginning to segment the FP Pool into sections: what you can see in Park only after you use your first 3, being one (Kiosk-only proves that). There will continue to be other segmentations.

What's going to drive this board crazy is that it's probably not going to be the same segmentation each day. Plus, the segmentation will be different based on who you are, the historical and day-of conditions. Not speculation, it's well spelled out in the Patent info.

For example, Disney knows, from decades of data, what days MK is historically a "9" while AK or DHS are "2's". It's not hard to imagine they'd love to even out that spread.

It's easy for us to forget that FP Legacy was 100% same day. And it's perfectly understandable we're looking at new info that's coming in based on all that previous experience. There are other guest-types Disney still needs to cater to, to some extent.

Holding out percentages, or assigning them to specific groups- all for specific business reasons is why they built this thing.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

But see.... for that "magic" to happen, something "unmagical" has to happen. Someone else has to miss out. That's the problem with it.

Yes....this is always the case. Its just a question of whether all the magic should be given to intense planners or not.

 

[PEC]

A question I have is, are there any individuals who did not get the FP they wanted 60 days out? For off-siters did they not get the ones they wanted 30 days out? Also was it peak or offseason? Another words can't compare what happened 2 weeks ago to this week.
My only experience is my niece (who is currently at WDW). Lucky for her she asks me for advice. She didn't know about FP+ when we talked over Christmas. She has a 4 yo so I ggave her recommendations and talked her through the process. She got everything she wanted 60 days out. Heck she got CRT for Breakfast for this week not even making a reservation until early January (I figured she had no chance). Granted with a 4 yo she can't do some of the top tier rides but the 4 yo is over 40 inches so she could do most of them. Granted it appears by crowd levels she picked a great week to be there.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

You know FP+'s might actually be in two or even three pools:

- Available for advanced booking
- Available for day of
- Available only for people who used their first 3 FP's

And these pools might change based on expected crowd levels. All guessing here, but this is really a benefit of this whole new system. For Disney to tweak/optimize the system based on conditions.

 

[wisblue]

This is why I rarely use TicketMaster for events at the 12,000 seat arena 10 minutes away. The arena system has all of the tickets.

I knew I should have copyrighted the Ticketmaster analogy. (See post 116 in this thread).

I think there is a good possibility that the FP pool is fluid as individual slots are held and returned to the system. That's a different issue than holding some for same day use, which I think also goes on to make some FPs available for people who don't have tickets in advance.

 

[EPCOTatNight]

And tomorrow is April 30th, a Wednesday. Probably about as light of a day as possible. Going to AK in the morning, then HS later and riding RnRC and ToT on a light crowd day is absolutley, positively, normal.

Again, ONLY the TSMM FP+ is different. How many times is that going to be used as an example? I mean really, is everyone willing to lose 3-4 FPs a day, all so you get a TSMM FP+ without being there at RD?

-J

Everyone? Your views are extreme. "Everyone" wasn't getting traditional fast passes to begin with. MOST were not even getting 3. More than 70% of people arrive after 11:00am. There were never enough fast passes to give everyone more than 3 EVER. Only a small amount of patrons experienced that. Your argument only works for the minority. FP- and FP+ are optimally used by very few people. Everyone else is in the dark. BUT, FP+ is more fair because that 70% now has a chance via MDE.

Also, I EXPERIENCED the same scenario on the weekend just last month. Don't ignore the word EXPERIENCED, not just commenting on what I think.

Sent from my IPad using DisBoards.

 

[MrInfinity]

A question I have is, are there any individuals who did not get the FP they wanted 60 days out? For off-siters did they not get the ones they wanted 30 days out? Also was it peak or offseason? Another words can't compare what happened 2 weeks ago to this week.
My only experience is my niece (who is currently at WDW). Lucky for her she asks me for advice. She didn't know about FP+ when we talked over Christmas. She has a 4 yo so I ggave her recommendations and talked her through the process. She got everything she wanted 60 days out. Heck she got CRT for Breakfast for this week not even making a reservation until early January (I figured she had no chance). Granted with a 4 yo she can't do some of the top tier rides but the 4 yo is over 40 inches so she could do most of them. Granted it appears by crowd levels she picked a great week to be there.

At 60 days out everything is available, with A&E being hit or miss plan at your first opportunity. At 30 days out, everything but A&E is abundantly available. Even now at 10 days out I can change pretty much everything around except A&E.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I think that well organized people have a decided advantage in most areas of their lives, and vacations are certainly no different - but that doesn't have anything to do with fairness.

Fairness doesn't really exist in the world, certainly not at Disney. If it did, everyone could stay at the Poly and eat at any restaurant that they wished for every meal.

 

[OtherScott]

Hub saying a certain percentage are held back for day-of makes sense. If we knew the percentage of same day (or purchased within a week, or so) tickets guests Disney has- that would be part of it. I doubt WDW wants to be known as "the Parks you can't ride anything good unless you reserve 60-30 days out."

We also know they're now beginning to segment the FP Pool into sections: what you can see in Park only after you use your first 3, being one (Kiosk-only proves that). There will continue to be other segmentations.

What's going to drive this board crazy is that it's probably not going to be the same segmentation each day. Plus, the segmentation will be different based on who you are, the historical and day-of conditions. Not speculation, it's well spelled out in the Patent info.

For example, Disney knows, from decades of data, what days MK is historically a "9" while AK or DHS are "2's". It's not hard to imagine they'd love to even out that spread.

It's easy for us to forget that FP Legacy was 100% same day. And it's perfectly understandable we're looking at new info that's coming in based on all that previous experience. There are other guest-types Disney still needs to cater to, to some extent.

Holding out percentages, or assigning them to specific groups- all for specific business reasons is why they built this thing.

If hold back for day of is occurring, wouldn't we expect to see people getting iced out during pre-booking on rides like TSMM*, or do you think tiering mitigates?


* Don't drink, Mom, it was a necessary reference

 

[mom2rtk]

* Don't drink, Mom, it was a necessary reference

That's OK. I'm sure there will be plenty of new opportunities coming my way.

 

[OtherScott]

I knew I should have copyrighted the Ticketmaster analogy. (See post 116 in this thread).

I think there is a good possibility that the FP pool is fluid as individual slots are held and returned to the system. That's a different issue than holding some for same day use, which I think also goes on to make some FPs available for people who don't have tickets in advance.

I'd have to look, but I think I used this analogy a while back.

What I'm referring to here is the ticket list population for internet users being less than in person customers.

I'll send royalties

 

[wisblue]

If hold back for day of is occurring, wouldn't we expect to see people getting iced out during pre-booking on rides like TSMM*, or do you think tiering mitigates?


* Don't drink, Mom, it was a necessary reference

Tiering absolutely mitigates that.

By the rules, everyone can get no more than one advance FP for either TSMM or RNRC. Then factor in that not everyone in the park wants to get a FP for either of them, much less both. Some guests are going to choose one of the other Tier 1 attractions instead, and be perfectly satisfied with their choice while being oblivious to the snickers on the DIS about wasting a FP. Others are simply not going to make FP reservations in advance. While we all can speculate about those numbers, Disney knows exactly what they are and can manipulate the availability of FPs as they see fit.

Which is why it can be entertaining, but probably an exercise in futility, to study exactly what's going on today and conclude that this how it will be at any time in the future.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

And that happened under the old FP- system as well.

It was just as much of a problem

Before it was guest efforts that controlled this. Now it Disney.

So, since off-site guest are the ones more likely to leave the parks and not spend anymore money on Disney property. Will all of those that stay only on-site like the idea that off-site guest get better picks for their 4th and 5th FP+s. Everyone assumes that on-site guest will get the best picks but if the goal is to get guest to spend money at Disney, why couldn't it really be the other way around?

 

[DavidNYC]

Of course they're "holding back" fastpasses. But so many people are talking abou this as if there's a guy in a room somewhere with a computer putting in and taking out fastpasses.

Like everything else Disney does, this is most likely controlled by computers based on a huge algorhythm taking into account anticipated attendance, historical usage, ongoing usage, number of people who reserve, change, don't show up. They even track levels of crowds in different areas of the parks and have ways to balance out crowd levels so perhaps even that is taken into account. And as a day goes on and they see how capacity and waits are at any given moment the computer can adjust on the fly perhaps adding some extra slots.

The truth is the manner in which this is being done is FAR beyond the comprehension of anyone on this board and while we can guess some of what goes into it - it's far more complicated than that.