Our 4th FP+ of the day...

[CFioren317]

Yes, the debate between FP+ and FP- really comes down to a debate between those who go at Rope Drop and those who do not. Sure, those who drink the Kool-Aid will love Disney even if they told you tomorrow that they were discontinuing Mickey Mouse as a character. But I have read a TON of the FP+ vs FP- debates, and for the most part, it seems like the rope droppers and touring planners hate FP+ while those people who come to the parks an hour or two after rope drop are glad they can book 3 FP+ in advance.

I am in the latter group...I have only done one rope drop at AK, and while it was nice, my son and i were tired earlier and didn't do anything after 3pm that day except chill at the hotel.

I absolutely love the FP+...even if it isn't perfect. It's nowhere near perfect. But even getting 1 FP+ in advance makes my trip. Now, I KNOW I will get on Soarin and TSMM. No doubt about it. I KNOW I will see A&E. No doubt. I have FP+ booked.

But I also see the other side...why should I, this lazy non-rope dropper, get to experience Soarin between 9:45 and 10:45 with little wait on a Monday morning when I didn't get there for rope drop? I know every other trip I have ever been on, I have not been able to get FP- for a time before 6pm on Soarin because I usually wasn't walking up to the kiosk until after 11am. I have also seen them be out of FP- many times.

So yeah, does FP+ suck for those of you who go to rope drop? Probably. Do I care? Nah. Because for me, I get to do 3 things with little wait every day of my trip and that's all I really care about. If I get a 4th, then woo hoo!!! If not, then oh well.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

I agree, though it would probably be completely lost on them, they wouldn't even know such things were happening.

The question would then be, who does Disney care about more, the family that comes once or twice, or the families who go year after year after year.

I would think their push to increased DVC and even changes like the recent 4th FP (which only people who have extensive knowledge of the previous system would really have a clue about) would speak to their interest in the repeat guest.

I guess. But at any given time, who is there more of in the park? Repeat guests or 1-2 lifetime-visit guests?

 

[heyitsmejosh]

So got a trip in May coming. Anyone booked three for Epcot and had Sorian or Test Track as one of the three. Then went back and got Sorian or Test Track after they used their 3 in the afternoon? Just curious what the availability for the rides are in the evening hours?

you can do that if you have your other fast passes early enough, in the morning.. unlike other parks epcot fastpasses tend to run out

 

[wisblue]

Everyone keeps saying that they wont modify their plan for MK, butt will for the other parks. I disagree.

MK has so many things to do. You stand the most to gain from 4+ fastpasses at MK. Best to blow through them and avoid as many lines as possible.

This gets to the nub of the question I'm raising. How much are you gaining by blowing through those first 3 FPs? Not that many rides in MK get lines that are very long in the first two hours after opening, especially if you look at actual, as opposed to posted, wait times. You might be able to avoid 3 lines in the first 2 hours, but those lines may not be more than 5-10 minutes long, if that.

On the other hand, if you schedule your 3 FPs for 12-2, you can use those FPs to avoid lines that are a lot longer than they were from 9-11.

That is why I am asking what rides at MK that one would get FPs for between 9-11, and how much value they would have. The two that would probably make the most sense would be Space Mountain and Peter Pan (if you want to do those) because their lines build up faster than any other attractions at MK. But, it is not difficult to do both of them in the first hour with little or no wait.

Mornings with EMH throw another wrinkle into this. With EMH it isn't difficult to do Space, Buzz, Peter Pan, and a couple other of the Tomorrowland or Fantasyland attractions in that first hour. Then, when the park opens for everyone, we have always been able to do BTMRR, Splash, HM, POC, and JC in no more than 2 hours. If you do that, you have done 8 or 9 of the most popular attractions in the park without using a FP, so you will still have your 3 FP+ reservations to use for. If you use the 3 FPs in the first two hours, you wlll be relying exclusively on the vagaries of the FP pool for the rest of your FPs for the day, including during the middle of the day when standby lines are longest.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I agree, though it would probably be completely lost on them, they wouldn't even know such things were happening.

The question would then be, who does Disney care about more, the family that comes once or twice, or the families who go year after year after year.

I would think their push to increased DVC and even changes like the recent 4th FP (which only people who have extensive knowledge of the previous system would really have a clue about) would speak to their interest in the repeat guest.

Something non-Disney related that I heard recently made me wonder -- Wouldn't the ideal guest be the one who will come back and spend lots of money and tell the type of people who are likely to spend vast amounts of money on DVC and/or deluxe resorts + extras about the fabulous time they had? Using the theory that most people have friends and family with similar income and spending habits?

So, to be a conspiracy theorist, even if promo materials never state that people who spend more money, for example by staying in deluxe resorts, get better FP+ options or other perks, Disney still benefits from giving them a better time.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

This gets to the nub of the question I'm raising. How much are you gaining by blowing through those first 3 FPs? Not that many rides in MK get lines that are very long in the first two hours after opening, especially if you look at actual, as opposed to posted, wait times. You might be able to avoid 3 lines in the first 2 hours, but those lines may not be more than 5-10 minutes long, if that.

On the other hand, if you schedule your 3 FPs for 12-2, you can use those FPs to avoid lines that are a lot longer than they were from 9-11.

That is why I am asking what rides at MK that one would get FPs for between 9-11, and how much value they would have. The two that would probably make the most sense would be Space Mountain and Peter Pan (if you want to do those) because their lines build up faster than any other attractions at MK. But, it is not difficult to do both of them in the first hour with little or no wait.

Mornings with EMH throw another wrinkle into this. With EMH it isn't difficult to do Space, Buzz, Peter Pan, and a couple other of the Tomorrowland or Fantasyland attractions in that first hour. Then, when the park opens for everyone, we have always been able to do BTMRR, Splash, HM, POC, and JC in no more than 2 hours. If you do that, you have done 8 or 9 of the most popular attractions in the park without using a FP, so you will still have your 3 FP+ reservations to use for. If you use the 3 FPs in the first two hours, you wlll be relying exclusively on the vagaries of the FP pool for the rest of your FPs for the day, including during the middle of the day when standby lines are longest.

Rock, Paper, Scissors

Pretty sure that Disney used "Game Design" principals when creating FastPass, such that it doesn't really matter what strategy you choose, in the end it's all pretty balanced.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

The question would then be, who does Disney care about more, the family that comes once or twice, or the families who go year after year after year.

I would think their push to increased DVC and even changes like the recent 4th FP (which only people who have extensive knowledge of the previous system would really have a clue about) would speak to their interest in the repeat guest.

I think that Disney's interest in DVC is tied to the guaranteed revenue locked in every year. They really don't care about the individuals that purchase or how often they come to Disney after that point except where they might spend more money on food and merchandise. They have the DVC owner's money and continue to collect annual maintenance fees. Same applies to AP holders. Once they have your park admission for the year, they really don't care if you use it once except where using the AP might generate even more revenue.

DVCs and APs are offered to produce a flat revenue line and guarantee income during even the slowest times of the year.

 

[wisblue]

Rock, Paper, Scissors

Pretty sure that Disney used "Game Design" principals when creating FastPass, such that it doesn't really matter what strategy you choose, in the end it's all pretty balanced.

I disagree. Timing and sequence of going to certain attractions has always made a big difference in how many things a guest can do, and FP+ does not change that.

 

[clsteve]

I disagree. Timing and sequence of going to certain attractions has always made a big difference in how many things a guest can do, and FP+ does not change that.

Except for 3 main things:

More attractions FP enabled

A much higher percentage of guests selecting FP's

A higher percentage of ride capacity allocated to FP redemption​

Getting through a significant portion of the summer, seeing what 7DMT brings as far as any changes, and getting some sort of feel for the impact of the 4th FP will tell a lot.

You're absolutely right that, for now, early arrival is always good.

 

[wisblue]

Except for 3 main things:

More attractions FP enabled

A much higher percentage of guests selecting FP's

A higher percentage of ride capacity allocated to FP redemption​

Getting through a significant portion of the summer, seeing what 7DMT brings as far as any changes, and getting some sort of feel for the impact of the 4th FP will tell a lot.

You're absolutely right that, for now, early arrival is always good.

My point is not about early arrival (which is always good) but about using 3 FPs in the first two hours just to get more.

I described above how you should be able to do BTMRR, Splash, HM, POC, and JC in the first 2 hours after the park is open without using a FP. There is no way you would be able to do all of those things in 2 hours starting at noon.

That being the case, it seems to make sense to me to ride as much as possible without FPs while lines are the shortest they will be all day, and use those advance FPs at popular attractions in the middle of the day when lines are longest.

 

[JanaDee]

I would agree with you. Disney is completely in control. They decide what you see on the app and at the kiosk. Even if something is available, it doesn't mean YOU will see it. They control what you can and can't get a fp for. This is a huge difference from legacy fp where anyone could get whatever they wanted if it was available. That means you might not be able to get a fp for splash mountain but the guy behind you can. It makes me furious.

Yup.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

My point is not about early arrival (which is always good) but about using 3 FPs in the first two hours just to get more.

I described above how you should be able to do BTMRR, Splash, HM, POC, and JC in the first 2 hours after the park is open without using a FP. There is no way you would be able to do all of those things in 2 hours starting at noon.

That being the case, it seems to make sense to me to ride as much as possible without FPs while lines are the shortest they will be all day, and use those advance FPs at popular attractions in the middle of the day when lines are longest.

But aren't people reporting that SB lines at RopeDrop are actually significant now?

 

[wisblue]

But aren't people reporting that SB lines at RopeDrop are actually significant now?

Some people may be reporting that, but my own review of wait times on MDE, our recent experience in the parks, and the reports on easywdw do not indicate that wait times are much higher in the first two hours at least. The most significant increases seem to be coming in the middle of the day for some attractions. IMHO, those longer times in the afternoon point all the more toward saving those valuable FP reservations until then.

I also know from experience, including recent experience, that a posted wait time of 20 minutes in the first hour or two often means that the ride is actually a walk on.

 

[OtherScott]

That's my point above. Disney can do ANYTHING with this system:

"Guest number #47283 used a fast pass for Space Mountain at 11am. When they get their 4th fastpass, they cannot chose Space Mountain again until 8pm even if there are earlier times available"

"Guest number #84299 has NEVER been in Haunted Mansion, let them choose any FP time available"

They may not be at this point yet, but this has to be the end game...because they can monetize this by providing different "entitlements" to different types of guests.

They can do anything. They wont do everything.

Day-of decisions based on this level of individualism are so problematic that it is probably prohibitive. HAL would have to reasonably know whether #47283 will leave or stay based on a 9 hours span until he gets his preferred experience. In time, HAL can learn where the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

More likely, HAL will simply apply his model of what he wants the park to look like at the time #47283 wants to ride Space Mountain and if the ride doesn't upset HAL too much, #47283 gets what he/she wants.

 

[jade1]

why should I, this lazy non-rope dropper, get to experience Soarin between 9:45 and 10:45 with little wait on a Monday morning when I didn't get there for rope drop?

1) Yea you did-"virtual" RD at 60 days. Plus it's impossible for everyone to get there at RD, unless the buses start running at 3AM.

2) Because you paid just as much as everyone else.

3) RD still enabled the planner to get more FP+ than you, and more done.

 

[BlackMagicWoman]

A better comparison would be if extra paper FP were made available later in the day, but only certain people could obtain and use them.

You mean like when someone gave me fastpasses or I gave mine away?

 

[JanaDee]

You mean like when someone gave me fastpasses or I gave mine away?

No, I mean from the machines themselves.

 

[BlackMagicWoman]

This gets to the nub of the question I'm raising. How much are you gaining by blowing through those first 3 FPs? Not that many rides in MK get lines that are very long in the first two hours after opening, especially if you look at actual, as opposed to posted, wait times. You might be able to avoid 3 lines in the first 2 hours, but those lines may not be more than 5-10 minutes long, if that.

On the other hand, if you schedule your 3 FPs for 12-2, you can use those FPs to avoid lines that are a lot longer than they were from 9-11.

That is why I am asking what rides at MK that one would get FPs for between 9-11, and how much value they would have. The two that would probably make the most sense would be Space Mountain and Peter Pan (if you want to do those) because their lines build up faster than any other attractions at MK. But, it is not difficult to do both of them in the first hour with little or no wait.

Mornings with EMH throw another wrinkle into this. With EMH it isn't difficult to do Space, Buzz, Peter Pan, and a couple other of the Tomorrowland or Fantasyland attractions in that first hour. Then, when the park opens for everyone, we have always been able to do BTMRR, Splash, HM, POC, and JC in no more than 2 hours. If you do that, you have done 8 or 9 of the most popular attractions in the park without using a FP, so you will still have your 3 FP+ reservations to use for. If you use the 3 FPs in the first two hours, you wlll be relying exclusively on the vagaries of the FP pool for the rest of your FPs for the day, including during the middle of the day when standby lines are longest.

Word. IMO it makes more sense to schedule them later. I'm actually okay with FP+. I'm not super opposed to waiting in line and I haven't been to rope drop once in my life. I've still ridden what I wanted now if I go to the water parks, I can ride at night when previously I couldn't get a fastpass for anything. Works
for me.

The whole debate about entitlements and Disney controlling things is starting to remind me of the Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard.

 

[jade1]

Disney can do ANYTHING with this system.

Disney is completely in control.

Step 5) Acceptance.

 

[BlackMagicWoman]

No, I mean from the machines themselves.

My point was, there have always been disparities. Special FPs for bad experiences for customers etc. People giving other people FPs. Guests getting special FPs at resorts.

I actually don't have a problem with it. But again I wouldn't now I can finally get a FP to Toy Story Mania. I've gotten one in my last five visits.