Other Options...

[sayhello]

So I'm a little confused about what the difference is between National Geographics and Lindblad. Is there a difference? Can someone please explain?

Thanks,
Sayhello

 

[Cinderella's Slipper 2015]

So I'm a little confused about what the difference is between National Geographics and Lindblad. Is there a difference? Can someone please explain?

Thanks,
Sayhello

Lindblad are sort of a subset of the total Nat Geo trips. The Lindblad trips look like they are all Nat Geo trips that take place on Research Vessels (someone correct me if I'm wrong as I only took a quick look at the Lindblad site). They are in conjunction with National Geographic because of the fact that there are researchers, photographers, explorers on the Lindblad expeditions that work for National Geographic studying the areas where Lindblad is. I would liken this to the ABD/DCL joint trips in the Mediterranean.

The Nat Geo trips themselves are broken down into Expeditions, Adventures and Journeys. Depending on the amount of "pampering" you want will determine which trip category you book. Expeditions are equivalent to ABD in that you stay at 5 Star hotels, most meals are included, etc. Adventures are more active in that they will include daily hikes etc, with probably 3-4 star hotels and about 1/2 the meals included. Journeys are more like voluntouring in that you have very little "structured" time and spend more time with the local peoples, accommodations can be minimal and the majority of the meals are not included.

 

[DCPhotoGal]

Would love to see New Zealand, along with Japan and India.

If the ABD doesn't pan out and you'd still like to do India, I would suggest one of the luxury trains. We have done both the Palace on Wheels and the Golden Chariot. It's a great (and safe) way to travel in India, and all of the meals and tours are included with the ride. The Palace on Wheels is a great first tour of India, with the palaces of Jaipur, elephant rides, Indian dance performances, Taj Mahal, etc. For the Golden Chariot, we arranged for a stop in Goa for a few days at a beach resort, and then caught the week's train for the rest of the tour. We took our kids (age 3 and 5) on the Palace on Wheels, and they did great.

 

[tracyz]

If the ABD doesn't pan out and you'd still like to do India, I would suggest one of the luxury trains. We have done both the Palace on Wheels and the Golden Chariot. It's a great (and safe) way to travel in India, and all of the meals and tours are included with the ride. The Palace on Wheels is a great first tour of India, with the palaces of Jaipur, elephant rides, Indian dance performances, Taj Mahal, etc. For the Golden Chariot, we arranged for a stop in Goa for a few days at a beach resort, and then caught the week's train for the rest of the tour. We took our kids (age 3 and 5) on the Palace on Wheels, and they did great.

Thanks for this tip! How funny, DH were just talking last night about how the Taj Mahal is at the top of my list, but there doesn't seem to be a great option we know about for going to India, as we don't even really know what else we'd want to do there. And then today I see this! Wow - the timing! The Palace on Wheels is now high on my bucket list!

Yes I am jealous.......not only do we have few flights here but the flights we have the airlines really pick your pockets.......Jet Blue flies here but as of late their fares have been more expensive than the big airlines.

Carpenta, I always check flights out of Montreal these days. We've flown out of there several times now and saved hundreds of dollars compared with flying out of Burlington.

 

[carpenta]

Thank you Tracyz for the tip. I have checked but when I ran the numbers with the time and expense involved with parking etc. plus I had a bad experience with Air Canada I tend to shy away from that choice. But now with the exchange rate being in favor of the dollar I guess I should try again.

 

[Cinderella's Slipper 2015]

Thank you Tracyz for the tip. I have checked but when I ran the numbers with the time and expense involved with parking etc. plus I had a bad experience with Air Canada I tend to shy away from that choice. But now with the exchange rate being in favor of the dollar I guess I should try again.

If you are going to book with Air Canada just keep an eye out and make sure you're not flying on Air Canada Rouge. Rouge now handles a LOT of Air Canada's European flights, any they consider a "leisure" destination. They now fly non-stop to Prague from Toronto, which would be great for me except that they have horrible service and forget having any room on the plane to move. When I compared the Air Canada Rouge plane flying to Prague with the plane that Austrian is flying to Vienna, both of which are the identical plane model, the Air Canada Rouge plane has 50+ MORE seats than the Austrian flight.

If you want to fly out of a major Canadian city to the UK, i.e. England, Scotland etc, check out WestJet. They are starting service to Gatwick in the spring.

 

[tracyz]

Thanks for this, too! I am flying to Vienna this weekend, booked through Air Canada and flying Montreal to Toronto, then to Vienna on Austrian. Glad to hear I got the better option! I flew on Austrian a couple months ago and was very pleased with them.

 

[Cinderella's Slipper 2015]

Thanks for this, too! I am flying to Vienna this weekend, booked through Air Canada and flying Montreal to Toronto, then to Vienna on Austrian. Glad to hear I got the better option! I flew on Austrian a couple months ago and was very pleased with them.

"Parent" Air Canada is code shared with Austrian. It's for flights like Toronto to Prague that they are putting Rouge. But they've also put a lot of their Italian locations on Rouge. After a few bad experiences on Rouge, we will only fly them if we have no other option open to us. When your Brand becomes tied to negative experiences and people use it in a derogatory manner, it's not good. When Rouge started taking over flights for Air Canada, people were not given the opportunity to rebook their flights or anything. People started saying they got "Rouged". My mom is 5'4" and she didn't have enough room at her seat to bend over and get anything out from under the seat in front of her. We flew with them on our trip to WDW over New Year's a few years ago when they first started flying to Orlando because they had the flight times we wanted. We got to the airport 3 hours ahead of time to see that the WestJet flight was delayed leaving Toronto but the Rouge flight was "on time". The flight hadn't even left Toronto yet and they kept insisting it was on route and going to leave Orlando on time. I checked on the Air Canada website and it was still sitting at Pearson thanks to weather. Also, the flight crew didn't know that a 10 year old couldn't sit in the exit row.

I have the joy of trying to figure out the best flights to get from Toronto to Prague and from Vienna to Toronto without paying an arm and a leg.

 

[Cinderella's Slipper 2015]

Out of curiosity, what was it that made you (anyone on this thread) decide to start looking at other tour companies? Was it just the lack of trip guarantees or was it something specific that happened?

I'll start. On our very first trip last year, which was the Southern California Disneyland trip, we had a great time right up until the very last evening, when ABD screwed up. Throughout the week we had taken part in all the optional activities until the last full trip day at California Adventure. We opted to skip seeing Aladdin (we'd seen the full sized Broadway show a few months earlier) and we really didn't want to see the Frozen sing-a-long after having WDW be nothing but Frozen this and Frozen that. Plus California Adventure had the one attraction I was dying to ride so we opted to skip the optional activities and hit some of the attractions. As the group broke up for lunch/free/optional time, the guides asked us what we were planning to do since we were skipping the optional activities. I told them we were hitting the rides, especially the giant roller coaster behind us at the time (California Screamin'). They seemed surprised but that didn't bother us. I was dying to ride it and I was going to do just that. Our Disney guide had to talk to our DL Guest Relations liaison so we asked our other guide what time and where were we supposed to meet for dinner that night. He told us to meet everyone at the large flower vase at Carthay Circle Restaurant at 5pm. I thought this was a bit odd because the only large vase I remembered seeing at Carthay Circle was up in the centre of the restaurant so I confirmed that I heard him correctly and he again said the vase at Carthay Circle at 5pm. With the meeting time confirmed my mom and I headed off on our own for a great afternoon of hitting the major attractions at California Adventure. As 5pm approaches we head over to Carthay Circle to meet up with everyone only no one is there and no one is showing up. After about 10 minutes of waiting without anyone from our group nor our guides showing up we start to wonder what's going on so I go talk to the check in desk in the restaurant and find out our group isn't due until 6:30pm. Now I'm completely confused so I try calling the guides. No answer. I had to call both guides multiple times before someone finally answered. Turns out we were supposed to meet at the large flower vase back at Grand Californian as everyone is now waiting for us in a meeting room at the hotel. We were NOT impressed. We were given the wrong information, which had been confirmed by a GUIDE and now we are the ones holding everyone up. By the time we get back to the hotel, we were actually going to just skip the rest of the night with the group but 2 ABD reps, they were our guides supervisors who were checking in periodically throughout the trip, found us on our way up to our room and basically insisted we come to the group gathering, insisting it was a miscommunication on our part that got the location messed up. My mom was so upset she really didn't want to go and it just totally ruined the rest of the evening. Needless to say, blaming us for the screw up of the guide left us with a really bad impression. We are giving them another chance with Central Europe but for 2017 we are looking at National Geographic.

 

[sayhello]

For me it's not any specific experience -- for the most part, my experiences have been fabulous. For me it's the lack of Guarantee; the increase in deposit (that's non-refundable); how they keep getting more expensive, but the overall quality (as in things like number of guests) seems to be going down. This is, unfortunately, a trend I've seen in Disney overall over the last few years that had seemed to skip ABD. But now it *is* impacting ABD. I truly believe most of this is being dictated by the corporate side, and not by the folks who actually design and run the trips, but it still means the product is being diluted. I'm hoping a company that's a bit more stable and whose corporate side is a bit more customer friendly will be able to give me the same sort of experience without the logistic headaches. The only way I'll know is by trying.

Sayhello

 

[Rapunzellover]

So sayhello....who else are you considering solo travel with? As a solo, I'd like input.

 

[sayhello]

So sayhello....who else are you considering solo travel with? As a solo, I'd like input.

Well, I'm already booked on the ABD river cruise for 2016, so I'm just starting to look/consider for 2017. So far, I've been looking at Thomson Family Adventures, but their lack of Adults Only trips would mean I'd need to find exactly the right trip on the shoulder season to consider them. Possible, but not a front-runner. I'm now starting to look more seriously at National Geographics, based on the input I've seen here. I'll probably give Tauck a look, too.

Sayhello

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

We booked England Coast to Coast with NatGeo because we wanted to do that specific hike across Northern England, and the NatGeo trip description sounded the best to us. But now that I have gone on one NatGeo trip (and have another booked), I have a list of at least 10-15 more that I am dying to do (more hiking trips, but also family trips and others). The things that most impressed us about NatGeo in comparison to ABD were that NatGeo guarantees its departures (at least the Adventures trips) once a minimum of 8 people has booked. I have become very disenchanted with ABD's lack of a firm guarantee policy. The other thing we really liked was the group size, which was capped at 16 (and we had 14). For the family trips, the maximum size is 25. I much prefer the smaller group experience to ABD's 44 (and we had 49 on our ABD Baltics cruise add-on, which really had a negative impact on our experience). On our England Coast to Coast trip, I pretty much knew everyone's name and something about them by the end of our welcome dinner and briefing. The guide ratio on NatGeo was also way better than ABD. We had three guides for 14 people versus 2 guides for 44 (or more!). The baggage handling was also better with NatGeo. Instead of early morning bag pulls, we simply left our bags in our rooms when we left a hotel that we wouldn't be returning to, and they were waiting for us in our room when we arrived at the next hotel (so no waiting for bags to be delivered either). We were very impressed with the inns and hotels we stayed at, and the food as well. Overall, just a really great experience.

For me it's not any specific experience -- for the most part, my experiences have been fabulous. For me it's the lack of Guarantee; the increase in deposit (that's non-refundable); how they keep getting more expensive, but the overall quality (as in things like number of guests) seems to be going down. This is, unfortunately, a trend I've seen in Disney overall over the last few years that had seemed to skip ABD. But now it *is* impacting ABD. I truly believe most of this is being dictated by the corporate side, and not by the folks who actually design and run the trips, but it still means the product is being diluted. I'm hoping a company that's a bit more stable and whose corporate side is a bit more customer friendly will be able to give me the same sort of experience without the logistic headaches. The only way I'll know is by trying.

Sayhello

I'm just going to say "ditto" to these two posts. I traveled on the NatGeo trip with Calfan and was pretty much blown away by the experience for all the reasons she mentioned--the three guides were fantastic, the food and lodging were tops (we had every meal paid for but one), and the small group size of 14 were my biggies. We often hear about ABD or Disney "Pixie dust," but NatGeo far outdid them IMO. The luggage issue was HUGE. I can't tell you how nice it was to just leave our bags in one hotel room and arrive it the next with the bags already there--now THAT is magic, LOL. We were also able to put any nonalcoholic drink on the "nat geo" account at the hotel. How cool is that? They also had little surprises along the way and a very very fun surprise at the end--with individual gag gifts. I'm hoping my DH and I will be able to join CalFan for NatGeo #2 in September, but we will definitely be going back in the future. I'm also trying to convince her to do Patagonia for a girl's trip

My reasons for looking beyond ABD pretty much echo SayHello's with a few additions. I've also been extremely disappointed with the direction the company has been heading for the past few years and 100% agree that it's Disneywide and finally hitting ABD. The disenchantment began with the scaled back trips for more money (they've always done this but it's getting even more egregious, i.e. what they've done with Scotland), but reached full throttle after my Baltics ABD add-on this summer. In general I thought it was WAY overpriced for the activities that were included, but the biggest problem I had was the enormous group size. As Calfan mentioned we had 49! They claim that 50 is the new number for add-ons (show me where that was printed before our trip), but what was truly ridiculous is that on the ABD advertising video that played over and over on our cruise clearly stated 40 people. The groups sizes have been getting bigger and bigger, leading to very different experiences IMO and NOT what I'm paying all that money for. That is my biggest beef by far, but when I started exploring other companies and noticed the differences in guaranteeing trips (and after reading some horror stories here) that has become a huge factor for me as well. I also feel that the are doing lip service but really aren't listening to their customers. After a very nice (and long) conversation with customer service after our trip about the group sizes and the problems with their guarantee policy, they acted very concerned and I hoped they would listen. What did they do instead? Made the guarantee policy even worse! Ouch.

I fully believe this is going to end up costing ABD at some point, and if the market keeps tanking like it has so far this year that point might be sooner than later. Unlike the cruises and the parks, they aren't filling all their trips to capacity, and there isn't an endless stream of people who can take the place of a dissatisfied customer. It's a much smaller target demographic who can afford these trips. IOW you can't ignore loyal and repeat customers like you might be able to for the cruises and parks. If you look at this board as a a microcosm, some of the most vocal cheerleaders (including me) of the ABD product over the years have become much less positive. With an expensive product like ABD, they need good word of mouth and enthusiastic customers. I used to tell anyone who would listen how amazing they were--I don't any longer. In fact, I just discouraged my sister from using them for her family of 6. I would have canceled my ABD Greece for this summer if I could have gotten my deposit back and gone with another tour company. I'm sure we'll have fun, but I hope we don't have another cattle call. After this trip, it is going to take a corporate turn around to get me to book another trip. Even NZ and Australia

 

[carpenta]

............and when we traveled with Nat. Geo and Tauck at restaurant meals we ordered off the full menu and most of the time alcohol was included.

 

[Calfan]

I'm also trying to convince her to do Patagonia for a girl's trip

No convincing necessary Sign me up!!

 

[acndis]

I kind of have had the opposite experience. We were ready to book with Nat Geo after the reviews here and the positive interaction I had with them researching the trip but then we went to SE Asia and the trip was absolutely perfect, flawless and I remembered why I love ABD so much. We were traveling with my 70+ dad and my eight year old son and the trip worked for everyone. At the end of the day, I just love the type of experiences on these trips. I really think that once you have done a few, booking the more exotic trips helps bring back your appreciation. While we were still in Cambodia, we changed our Christmas trip from the River Cruise to Peru and now are planning Australia for 2017 (ABD should pay Cousin Orville commission). However, I also endorse trying new things! It's a great idea. However, I think we will wait until my son is older and/or my dad is no longer traveling with us.

 

[Cousin Orville]

...(ABD should pay Cousin Orville commission).

Agreed!

You'll have a great time in Australia!

 

[calypso726]

I've been following this thread along and I echo what others have said. My Copenhagen pre-cruise ABD add-on was not worth the money it cost. We've been on 5 ABDs and Copenhagen was the only that I decided not to write a trip report for since I wasn't really impressed. I did love the guides though. The idea of 49 or 50 people as Calfan and Californiagirl had on their trip is a bit much and seems like the experienced would be watered down. Then there's the watering down of the itineraries like Scotland. It's sad because I've been a cheerleader for ABD ever since I went on the Scotland trip despite any misgivings that I had before-hand.

Now that the deposit is higher, groups are larger and there are few guaranteed trips to be had we will also be looking at other companies as well. We've got the ABD river cruise and post cruise Prague add-on booked for this summer and Winter in Wyoming booked for the end of the year. I'm glad to hear about the good experiences with Nat. Geo. I'd like to go to Africa for my 50th birthday but ABD doesn't have Victoria Falls in their itinerary but some of the Nat. Geo ones do. Besides, that is definitely not a trip where I want to risk a cancellation.

 

[Miss SD]

This was the first year since 2008 that we haven't taken an ABD trip. My husband has refused to travel with ABD again since 2013, when our Scotland tour was led by two seemingly burned-out guides. Watching grown men get yelled at for helping themselves to a bottles of water was too much for him! Talk about cheap! When someone on the tour spilled the beans about how much the trip cost, he was not happy. (I didn't hide the price of the tours from him; he just never asked.) And I've decided that the only ABD tours I'm going to take will be with the DIS Unplugged podcast team. Kevin would nip any attitude problems in the bud.

I'm interested in an Abercrombie & Kent tour of Budapest, Vienna and Prague. It's fairly expensive, of course, but even my husband said, "Look at those fancy hotels they stay in!" And it's limited to 18 guests. I'd like to know if anyone has traveled with this company before.

 

[carpenta]

Burnt out or not the guides are employed in a service occupation. I agree with your husband because water can always be replaced with more. Repeat customers, not so much.