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[Calfan]

The SE Asia ABD is an outstanding trip! I would love to have included HLB, and I think we are going to go on our own when we repeat the trip!

I have definitely seen very positive feedback about the ABD SEA trip, but for some reason, every time I read the itinerary hoping to get excited about it, it just does not resonate with me the way some other itineraries I have looked at do (for example, Classic Journeys Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia Culture + Walking or Nat Geo's Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia Adventure). I think the combo of the ABD itinerary just not grabbing me in comparison to others and the risk of having a large group with ABD puts the kibosh on it for me.

 

[CrazyZeus1]

I have definitely seen very positive feedback about the ABD SEA trip, but for some reason, every time I read the itinerary hoping to get excited about it, it just does not resonate with me the way some other itineraries I have looked at do (for example, Classic Journeys Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia Culture + Walking or Nat Geo's Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia Adventure). I think the combo of the ABD itinerary just not grabbing me in comparison to others and the risk of having a large group with ABD puts the kibosh on it for me.

Even when we've had the max size groups on iteneraries it's never been an issue. More new friends to love is how we see it! In general we've found ABD to be great at navigating with any number of adventurers.

 

[Calfan]

Even when we've had the max size groups on iteneraries it's never been an issue. More new friends to love is how we see it! In general we've found ABD to be great at navigating with any number of adventurers.

I just have to disagree with you on this one (in a friendly way of course). I've been on ABDs with 34, 42 and 49, and have also done Nat Geo trips with 15, 10 and 13, Thomson with 10 and Austin Adventures with 13, and I much much prefer the smaller group size. While I've met some great people on our ABDs (also true of our trips with other providers), I find that the larger numbers negatively impact how much the group can do and the time it takes to handle logistics, transition between activities, etc. Totally a matter of personal preference, but the large group size with ABD is a huge negative for me. We are doing the ABD Backstage Magic trip next month, so I'll have a chance to reevaluate ABD, but I don't expect my opinion to change. I am super excited for that trip though. But that's a unique itinerary that another provider just cannot replicate or provide an equivalent.

 

[Calfan]

It does. When I spoke with them they said the extension was one of about 4 that they have put together for other customers as a private tour. Basically, they said the extension is a private tour but someone else could join in. They are really flexible on the extension and will pretty much arrange whatever you want or you can pick from one of the previous extensions they had put together. We looked at alot of itineraries and this one seemed to resonate with the 3 of us. The only thing that was on our list that is not on the tour is the War Remnants Museum and Cu Chi Tunnels tour. We will go in a day early to Saigon and do those on our own.

Sounds great. The other family from our Thomson China trip was recently in Russia, and they said Thomson helped them put their trip together, so it sounds like Thomson is really good at customizing trips. I hadn't focused on that aspect with them until recently.

 

[CrazyZeus1]

I just have to disagree with you on this one (in a friendly way of course). I've been on ABDs with 34, 42 and 49, and have also done Nat Geo trips with 15, 10 and 13, Thomson with 10 and Austin Adventures with 13, and I much much prefer the smaller group size. While I've met some great people on our ABDs (also true of our trips with other providers), I find that the larger numbers negatively impact how much the group can do and the time it takes to handle logistics, transition between activities, etc. Totally a matter of personal preference, but the large group size with ABD is a huge negative for me. We are doing the ABD Backstage Magic trip next month, so I'll have a chance to reevaluate ABD, but I don't expect my opinion to change. I am super excited for that trip though. But that's a unique itinerary that another provider just cannot replicate or provide an equivalent.

We've done ABDs with 9, 11, and 12 people and while small groups have perks, larger groups just have different perks to us !

 

[*WDW*Groupie*]

I'm with @Calfan on enjoying the smaller group sizes. Our groups on the ABD Rhine River Cruise were just so big it wasn't really enjoyable. Some of the tours we had 45-50 people and it was seemed like organized chaos for the guides. At the zip lining for example, there was one outhouse for the entire group to use. Speaking of the same excursion, we were divided into 3 or 4 groups for the zip lining. When the last group came back there were no snacks left -- and it was over a one hour bus ride back to the boat (I was famished when my group returned from the course). Not to mention the guides seemed very scattered most of the time. I will also mention the canoe disaster in France where they put around 30 or so canoes on the river at the same time, some with experienced paddlers and others with no experience. Perhaps it was because we were the first cruise, but it is not an experience I care to relive -- ever. There was also the bicycling trip through the vineyards in Germany (?) where one of the tires on Betti's bike blew, which left one ABD guide with a group of around 40 people -- some of whom just couldn't keep up. So we spent an enormous amount of time just standing with our bikes and waiting for the those bringing up the rear to catch up, when we really just wanted to keep going (those in the rear were so winded they wanted a break and we had already been standing waiting for several minutes -- it was a bit of a disaster). Of course this is just my opinion.

People that hadn't done an ABD previously seemed to enjoy it. But we met a lot of people that were showing off the swag they got for "complaining" to the guides (I never asked what they complained about, nor did I complain to a guide).

Since we have traveled with private guides and with ABD with groups that were just WAY too big, I know that my preference is definitely with private travel or much smaller groups. However I know that both of my kids like group travel so of course I let them chose (to some extent).

 

[WeLoveABD]

I'm with @Calfan on enjoying the smaller group sizes. Our groups on the ABD Rhine River Cruise were just so big it wasn't really enjoyable. Some of the tours we had 45-50 people and it was seemed like organized chaos for the guides. At the zip lining for example, there was one outhouse for the entire group to use. Speaking of the same excursion, we were divided into 3 or 4 groups for the zip lining. When the last group came back there were no snacks left -- and it was over a one hour bus ride back to the boat (I was famished when my group returned from the course). Not to mention the guides seemed very scattered most of the time. I will also mention the canoe disaster in France where they put around 30 or so canoes on the river at the same time, some with experienced paddlers and others with no experience. Perhaps it was because we were the first cruise, but it is not an experience I care to relive -- ever. There was also the bicycling trip through the vineyards in Germany (?) where one of the tires on Betti's bike blew, which left one ABD guide with a group of around 40 people -- some of whom just couldn't keep up. So we spent an enormous amount of time just standing with our bikes and waiting for the those bringing up the rear to catch up, when we really just wanted to keep going (those in the rear were so winded they wanted a break and we had already been standing waiting for several minutes -- it was a bit of a disaster). Of course this is just my opinion.

People that hadn't done an ABD previously seemed to enjoy it. But we met a lot of people that were showing off the swag they got for "complaining" to the guides (I never asked what they complained about, nor did I complain to a guide).

Since we have traveled with private guides and with ABD with groups that were just WAY too big, I know that my preference is definitely with private travel or much smaller groups. However I know that both of my kids like group travel so of course I let them chose (to some extent).

The main thing is that it is a personal preference. The business model isn't going to be able to sustain small groups and two guides, and I assume other perks that come with each ABD trip. I agree that larger groups move at a slower pace in some respects (although the Iceland group of 37 that just concluded moved pretty smoothly! We we're frequently split into groups of two to avoid a pile up in the more involved activities, so in that sense there is the small group experience). But in any event, Disney isn't going to be able to change to a 15 person max , so we all have a choice re travel group size-- and if the likely group size of 30 or more isn't your thing, there are plenty of other options!

 

[Calfan]

The main thing is that it is a personal preference. The business model isn't going to be able to sustain small groups and two guides, and I assume other perks that come with each ABD trip. I agree that larger groups move at a slower pace in some respects (although the Iceland group of 37 that just concluded moved pretty smoothly! We we're frequently split into groups of two to avoid a pile up in the more involved activities, so in that sense there is the small group experience). But in any event, Disney isn't going to be able to change to a 15 person max , so we all have a choice re travel group size-- and if the likely group size of 30 or more isn't your thing, there are plenty of other options!

Totally agree it’s a matter of personal preference, but I don’t understand why you say the ABD business model is not able to sustain small groups and two guides. That is exactly what Nat Geo, Thomson and Austin Adventures do. Our AA trip had 3 guides for our small group. My recent Nat Geo trip had 2 guides plus a logistics person for 13 people. And my issue with ABD splitting their larger groups into two for certain activities is that that feels to me like losing the supposed ABD advantage of having 2 guides for every group. When the groups get split, instead of having 2 ABD guides for a group of 40, it kind of becomes 1 ABD guide for a group of 20. Well, I’ve had much much better guide to guest ratios on my trips with the other providers without sacrificing trip quality (at least in my opinion).

 

[WeLoveABD]

Totally agree it’s a matter of personal preference, but I don’t understand why you say the ABD business model is not able to sustain small groups and two guides. That is exactly what Nat Geo, Thomson and Austin Adventures do. Our AA trip had 3 guides for our small group. My recent Nat Geo trip had 2 guides plus a logistics person for 13 people. And my issue with ABD splitting their larger groups into two for certain activities is that that feels to me like losing the supposed ABD advantage of having 2 guides for every group. When the groups get split, instead of having 2 ABD guides for a group of 40, it kind of becomes 1 ABD guide for a group of 20. Well, I’ve had much much better guide to guest ratios on my trips with the other providers without sacrificing trip quality (at least in my opinion).

I will concede the point if the 15 or fewer guest trips with 2 or 3 guides is priced equivalently to an ABD trip with the same itinerary. Otherwise this friendly debate ends where we both agree: personal preference!

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

I will concede the point if the 15 or fewer guest trips with 2 or 3 guides is priced equivalently to an ABD trip with the same itinerary. Otherwise this friendly debate ends where we both agree: personal preference!

They are definitely priced equivalently. It's hard to compare apples to oranges with the Nat Geo hiking trips since ABD doesn't have anything like them. But IMO the two NatGeo hiking trips we've done are every bit on par with the ABD experience (I've done six ABDs). For our Coast to Coast that was 12 days long we had three guides, all our meals were included except one dinner, and stayed at exceptional small hotels (the best available). We had "surprises" along the way, and an open tab at every place we stayed for non-alcoholic beverages (including fancy coffee drinks). I can't remember exact number of guests, but I think 15 for two main guides and an extra logistical person who was basically another guide. We left our luggage in our room (not in the hall) and it was waiting for us in our rooms at our next stop (so much better than Tinkerbell). The cost for the same trip this year is $6000 a person. @Calfan can speak more to specifics on the Thompson/Austin Adventures, but when I've priced them out and compared itineraries they are all very close--sometimes slightly more and sometimes slightly less. So I think the ABD model can definitely sustain a smaller group. I want to say when they first started it was 35 (or even 30?). I went the second year of ABD to Ireland, but unfortunately, I don't have my original materials. They've gradually crept up their "minimum." I remember having salt in the wound when i was on DCL with my 49 people on the Baltic Add-on and the ABD commercial playing in the room said "You will never have more than 40" or something like that. I would love to see them take the minimum back to 30-35. They run plenty of trips of that size or lower. At least half of my trips have been in that range. I suspect they have a minimum number for each trip that they want to hit for it to be profitable. My guess is 20-25 ish. Anything on top of that is probably gravy. Our China trip was supposed to be 28 but 4 people cancelled at last minute to make it 24. It was the pretty much ideal size for a family travel group. There are enough groups to mix it up for dinner and still get a chance to really get to know people.

 

[CrazyZeus1]

They definitely limit numbers, although I don't know how/what that number is determined. We were on a waiting list twice and didn't make the trip since it was too full...so I know they are setting limits

 

[disneyphx]

Thought I would share a few thoughts on our Tauck Bridges trip this summer. We headed to Alaska - the TB and ABD itineraries are pretty similar, but we opted for TB because of less time travelling and the range of activities.
There were 41 in the group - this was our 3rd TB trip and all have had 35+ people. One family group of 12 stuck together always.

Some observations:
- there were lots of grandparent (1 or 2)/grandchild (1 or 2) groups - all our TB trips have had this (and none of our ABDs) but this was the most. One of them pointed out they felt more comfortable with no passport needed. While it is fun to see the interactions and we have met some great people, there can also be some different dynamics than you observe with parent/child combos. All 3 of our TB trips have also had 3 generation groups
- this was the 1st TB trip where we really felt the difference with only one guide. She was good, but always very busy 'doing things' and spent hardly any time with the anyone in the group. We shared our transfer to Anchorage with her, and she said from when she had crossed paths with ABD groups, she really envied the model!
- like other TB trips, at a lot of dinners, we got to order from the entire menu and be in the restaurant which is great
- the TB pre-departure gift is no better than ABD this year - a too-small for us backpack, a water bottle and a pack of cards (it is really for the kid). TB is trying out reusable water bottles in Alaska - they were nice Swell bottles, but were too small and they did not make it easy to refill them
- the 'gift of time' has never been a benefit we can use - on our Costa Rica trip they didnt offer it because it was high season, and for this trip it didnt make sense for us given flight times (and how precious my vacation days are)
- we had really hoped to see more animals in Alaska - we are considering a Nat Hab bear trip (we did the Nat Hab polar bear trip which was fabulous, and our guide does Alaska trips too, so we heard lots of wonderful tales!)

Overall, TB is not my favorite, but dates or itinerary might lead us back to them.
I think we are now looking at more in-depth trips with guides who are more expert in the area or a topic.

 

[acndis]

We have completed our booking of the Austria Multisport Family Vacation for August 2020. We got 2018 pricing + the let's do it again 10% discount. We were very happy with the price and loved that we could book so early. We went with the family trip because the custom was nearly double the price . The booking process was easy and we love working with AA.

It's a long ways away (we have ABD Backstage Magic Summer 2019) but we are excited to try their group tours (since our last was custom). Now, we just have to decide if we want to do pre trip days in Munich or Prague and/or post days in Vienna. Any and all input appreciated!

 

[Calfan]

We have completed our booking of the Austria Multisport Family Vacation for August 2020. We got 2018 pricing + the let's do it again 10% discount. We were very happy with the price and loved that we could book so early. We went with the family trip because the custom was nearly double the price . The booking process was easy and we love working with AA.

It's a long ways away (we have ABD Backstage Magic Summer 2019) but we are excited to try their group tours (since our last was custom). Now, we just have to decide if we want to do pre trip days in Munich or Prague and/or post days in Vienna. Any and all input appreciated!

Prague!!!!!

 

[WishUponAStarryNight]

Prague!!!!!

Yes, Prague!!

 

[carpenta]

Another vote for Prague.....if you could spend a few days that would be even better.

 

[calypso726]

Chiming in to say Prague!

 

[kristilew]

Another vote for Prague!

 

[acndis]

I think Prague is the CLEAR winner. Already ran it by the husband and he's in, let the super longterm planning begin! Thanks for the input.

 

[riot23]

We’re in Prague right now and heading to Munich tomorrow for our Germany ABD. Prague is a BEAUTIFUL city that is easily walkable, has beautiful sights all around and has been very economical in our opinion. I don’t think you’ll regret visiting!