OT - would you complain to the school? UPDATED

[Gillian]

Oh, I'd call the teacher back since she called you. I'm sure she is going to be defensive, but it'll be ok.

Ask her what the plans are for upcoming lessons, so that you'll feel comfortable with them, and ask for another copy of that movie list! I'm sure when you actually talk to her you'll both feel better.

 

[declansdad]

Call the teacher.

 

[emma'smom]

I think there are times to contact the principal and times to contact the teacher. In this case, I might have contacted the teacher first...but if I didn't agree with the film, I would have followed up with the principal.

As for the Bible being taught in public schools, I think this would offend the folks who are not Christians (Jewish, Muslim, etc) and I am very careful with the kinds of "Christian" religious ideas that I think are appropriate for my child. I assist in her Sunday School class and in Vacation Bible School so that I can be a part of her formal, religous education. At home, we try to model what we believe are appropriate religous behaviors (saying grace, helping others). There are many conservative Christian churches out there whose values don't mesh with our family's more mainline, liberal view of Christianity. So even within Christianity, there are many different perspectives. I think these messages are best left to families to teach (and/or families can choose private, religous schools or homeschooling if they would like religion to be a more integrated part of their child's education).

 

[fan_of_small_world]

In regard to the question of whether the Bible should be included in public schools in any form, I just wanted to add my personal experience.

I was a member of a unique honors class in high school that was a 2-period class and combined literature and social studies. All of the lit we studied corresponded to the time period we were studying. (At the time, the mid-80s, this was a progressive concept!)

In our first year, the social studies component was World History, and I remember that included in the literature we read was the Bible. We examined the stories in the context of how they would have been received and understood at the time they were written, and how those stories can and cannot help us learn about the people and the culture of that time. I also remember discussing the fact that some people viewed the Bible as written by humans and that others believe it is the exact word of God, and we also talked about the many different translations that exist (I think we used the King James as our text). We also read other religions' writings, too, during studies of various world cultures through time, not just Judeo-Christian writings.

I think that, when a variety of viewpoints are discussed academically and no one point of view is given priority, the inclusion of religious texts in education can be a valuable learning experience. Perhaps that's what inspired me to become a religion major in college! One of the most interesting classes I took was called Unconventional Religious Movements, where we looked at several religions outside of the mainstream, including Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, the Baha'i Faith, and Hari Krishnas.

 

[emma'smom]

In regard to the question of whether the Bible should be included in public schools in any form, I just wanted to add my personal experience.

I was a member of a unique honors class in high school that was a 2-period class and combined literature and social studies. All of the lit we studied corresponded to the time period we were studying. (At the time, the mid-80s, this was a progressive concept!)

In our first year, the social studies component was World History, and I remember that included in the literature we read was the Bible. We examined the stories in the context of how they would have been received and understood at the time they were written, and how those stories can and cannot help us learn about the people and the culture of that time. I also remember discussing the fact that some people viewed the Bible as written by humans and that others believe it is the exact word of God, and we also talked about the many different translations that exist (I think we used the King James as our text). We also read other religions' writings, too, during studies of various world cultures through time, not just Judeo-Christian writings.

I think that, when a variety of viewpoints are discussed academically and no one point of view is given priority, the inclusion of religious texts in education can be a valuable learning experience. Perhaps that's what inspired me to become a religion major in college! One of the most interesting classes I took was called Unconventional Religious Movements, where we looked at several religions outside of the mainstream, including Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, the Baha'i Faith, and Hari Krishnas.

I think a truly academic study of multiple religious writings would be really interesting and it would be fine with me if this kind of study occurred in schools. However, I can see how this could potentially become a Pandora's Box of issues and contraversy if not handled well. One of my good friends is a professor in a Religous Studies Department at our local college. One hurdle she often faces with incoming majors is helping them to separate their personal religious beliefs from a more academic, critical study of the Bible along with other Religous writings.

 

[fan_of_small_world]

I think a truly academic study of multiple religious writings would be really interesting and it would be fine with me if this kind of study occurred in schools. However, I can see how this could potentially become a Pandora's Box of issues and contraversy if not handled well. One of my good friends is a professor in a Religous Studies Department at our local college. One hurdle she often faces with incoming majors is helping them to separate their personal religious beliefs from a more academic, critical study of the Bible along with other Religous writings.

Very true...I don't know if the studies of religious texts, as literature, that I did in high school 20+ years ago (OMG, I can't believe how long ago that was!) would go over today. So much has changed in our society in that time period that I would venture to guess that most schools would rather not do anything rather than face the possibility of angry parents. Which, of course, is really a shame, because it deprives students of opportunities to learn more about the world around them.

 

[bethann1970]

Coming from the point of view of an EX substitute with no education degree (4 yr business degree, but wanted to work at my kids school), I can tell you that I had to substitute often for an older music teacher who was having medical problems. For the majority of those days I was given movies to show the children. We watched some Wiggles, some Barney, some Christmas specials, but no Disney. You really can't expect someone with no musical background to teach music. Even the regular music teachers in our school show movies...I am a Teacher Assistant full time in 3rd grade now, and my class in the past month have watched "Fantasia" and "High School Musical". Not sure how he makes this a learning process, but he's the music teacher.

And on a personal note about the whole religion thing at school, my husband grew up in Australia where they were forced to take a religion class that covered all religions. He hated the way it was forced on him, and now is an atheist. If you want your kids to be taught religion at school (as his ex-wife did), send your kids to a religious school (as his ex-wife did). Believe me, it does offend quite a few people if you talk about a religion to their kids that they don't approve of.

 

[fan_of_small_world]

If you want your kids to be taught religion at school (as his ex-wife did), send your kids to a religious school (as his ex-wife did). Believe me, it does offend quite a few people if you talk about a religion to their kids that they don't approve of.

I'm not sure if I'm reading your post correctly, so please forgive me if I'm responding to something you didn't mean. I just want to be clear that what I studied in the class was not the different religions, per se, but the religious texts as examples of literature of that time and culture. Also, they did not advocate one religion over another, and we were high school aged, not young children.

I do have to say, though, that I personally can't see how being required to take one class that examines a variety of religious traditions could turn someone into an atheist. To me it would be like having a history or social science requirement. I could see that perhaps, after studying the teachings of the different religions, someone might decide that they do not believe any of the teachings. But I can't understand how the requirement itself was the problem. Is there possibly something more to it, perhaps related to issues he had with the lessons taught?

 

[bethann1970]

They were required to take this class every year, starting around 4th right through high school. And just from a generic point of view, I had to take science through 11th grade, and I enjoyed it until 10th...but after that last year, I hate science! He is of the mindset that none of it can be proven, so it isn't fact and how can they teach it to children as real if it isn't proven. He says if they teach that as real in school, they should also continue to say Santa and the Tooth Fairy are real throughout school. The Christmas thing really gets to him..Jesus was not born on the 25th of December, but the Christians say he was so they could take the Pagan holiday of Yule and turn it into something Christian. The Christmas tree, Yule log....all Pagan traditions. Same with Easter, originally a Pagan holiday..coloring eggs, the spring colors. I have my beliefs and share them with our children, but do not feel it is anyone else's right to tell my children what to believe. School's are too diverse to try to teach religion. That is up to the parents.

 

[sahwifeandmommy]

I would be very upset if a PG movie were shown to my children I don't care what context they were trying to put it in. The truth of the matter is there are many wonderful shows that could have been shown-I think someone mentioned Fantasia. Before I stayed home the daycare would show PG movies to my 3 year old and when we confronted them with it we were told they had a filter to mute out the bad words. They seemed to be surprised when I told them I was more concerned with the content of the show then a bad word being said once or twice. The funny thing is that they had to stop showing the Power Rangers when they realized that the little boys wanted to then "play" Power Rangers and it became a problem. I am so suprised how we can say that media doesn't influence people and then are also surprised at how much a commercial during the Super Bowl costs.
Oops guess I got on a soapbox

 

[Kanga1]

I don't think I would have thought to call her instead of the principal since she is a speciality teacher, not the every day teacher.

Oh boy....while I don't agree with showing "Nightmare Before Christmas" (and I haven't seen Hercules, so cannot comment,) I did get my feathers ruffled over this statement! I'm a "specialty" teacher (library) and while I don't see my kids on a daily basis, I am still one of their TEACHERS...a certified, Master+ degree teacher qualified and certified to teach in the classroom (as most specialty teachers are.) Why WOULDN'T you want to speak to her first? I'd be mad too.

 

[pantherlj]

Oh boy....while I don't agree with showing "Nightmare Before Christmas" (and I haven't seen Hercules, so cannot comment,) I did get my feathers ruffled over this statement! I'm a "speciality" teacher (library) and while I don't see my kids on a daily basis I am still one of their TEACHERS...a certified, Master+ degree teacher qualified and certified to teach in the classroom (as most specialty teachers are.) Why WOULDN'T you want to speak to her first? I'd be mad too.

Thanks for letting me know your view point. To be honest, it just never occured to me

I can put this whole experience in my "lesson learned" files and know to call the teacher first next time!

 

[NotUrsula]

... And you see my point about teaching the Bible as literature. (Or the Koran, or the Bhagavad Gita, etc.) When parents have a say, it's a minefield, which is why most schools and districts just steer clear.

It is difficult even in college to get people to look at religious texts objectively, as *writing*, but there the students are adults, and their parents don't have a say in what they read. (At least normal parents don't. Let's not get into the whole helicopter phenomenon...)

 

[Madi100]

Thanks for letting me know your view point. To be honest, it just never occured to me

I can put this whole experience in my "lesson learned" files and know to call the teacher first next time!

I must say that this is one of the best discussion I've participated in. I think that a majority of the people here agree that you should have gone to the teacher first. Most of us agree that the movies were probably unappropriate to be shown in whole. But you have taken the suggestions as that. You have actually listened to what people have said without getting all defensive, and I think that's great.

I'm sure that you have acted on this now, but call the teacher. And think about what the point is. If this music teacher did send home a list of movies at the beginning of the year, and you had read them, would you have been opposed to your child seeing them? Is your point that you didn't know, or that you think it's unappropriate? Personally for me, if those movies had come home to me, I might suggest to the teacher that I feel both are a little violent/scary. However, they don't bother me enough that I wouldn't let my child watch them with the rest of their class. I just choose not to introduce them in my home. I think the best way to handle a teacher is to make it as a suggestion rather than an attack on their choices. And, if your child is telling you that she did fastforward through parts of it, maybe she did so for the scary parts, also. If your daughter has never seen this movie, she really doesn't know what got fast forwarded through. My children can tell you that they've seen Dirty Dancing. And, they have. What a great movie to show during music class, too! (They didn't watch it there, but it could be). Even my nine year couldn't tell how much she missed. Not enough to change the story, but enough to make me feel better about showing it to her.

Way to learn from this! I'd try my best to unruffle feathers with the music teacher.

 

[laceemouse]

What do rainbows have to do with the story of the Ark? My mind may be going from old age, but I don't remember any rainbows in Genesis. (OK, I double-checked and found the rainbow reference, but I still think that you're misreading the pot of gold story. While the rainbow will supposedly lead you to a pot of gold, nowhere does the legend say that the rainbow exists because of the presence of the gold.)

The Irish story of the pot of gold isn't about magic, it is about being made foolish by greed. In Irish folklore the Wee Folk are always tricking greedy humans, and having one fall for that story would make a particularly fine trick, as it is utterly impossible to follow a rainbow to its end.

BTW, the reason that the Bible is not often taught as literature pre-college is that doing so would cause an uproar among Christian parents. When you read the Bible as literature you must criticize it and discuss the changes and reinterpretations that it has gone through over the course of centuries, and doing so requires accepting the premise that it was written by man. Many Christians, especially those who belong to more conservative sects, find that idea offensive.

After the flood, God showed a rainbow to promise that He would never do that to the earth again.
But, back to this thread. Both of the movies they showed would make me mad, not because of their content but because THE PARENTS should decide what is appropriate for their children. I agree with whoever said why can't they just listen to classical music or something?
When my kids were in school (we homeschool now) we always were informed ahead of time if a movie would be shown and it was anything other than G. Movies in school, other than maybe very short education films, are a huge waste of time anyway. One of the reasons we can get our school day done in less than half the amount of time at home.

 

[who said?]

In fourth grade my dd (she is in sixth now)started to watch casper on halloween.Her teacher said if there was one more bad word she would turn it off.she did.In her school libray you had to sign a slip to say your child could check out a video and you given a list of them.they were all pg or g.When my ds was in middle school (high school) they had to get a slip signed to watch numbers.For those of you upset of the movies they are watching now or the amount they watch a ton of them in middle school and high school.

 

[angel's momma]

As to the school's rule of not showing Disney movies -

When I was a librarian (not since DD8 was born, but I'm assuming it hasn't changed), Disney offered a "contract" that could be purchased yearly (it was like $300) to show Disney movies in public group settings.

Without the contract, you're not supposed to show the movies to public groups.

 

[Kanga1]

As to the school's rule of not showing Disney movies -

When I was a librarian (not since DD8 was born, but I'm assuming it hasn't changed), Disney offered a "contract" that could be purchased yearly (it was like $300) to show Disney movies in public group settings.

Without the contract, you're not supposed to show the movies to public groups.

You are correct. You can still purchase the contract agreement, however, if you purchase a Disney video from an educational source (catalog, Internet, or otherwise,) you are legally allowed to show it in an instructional classroom setting, based on classroom lesson plans. Depending on the district, I would still think you would have to have parental consent for anything other than ratings of G.

 

[tkhkroberts]

My DD7 and 8 go to a Christian school and some of the things that are taught there really do not seem appropriate for the age level either. They are not allowed to watch movies and most holidays are ignored unless they are Lutheran holidays. It really does seem to limit the kids to what they are exposed to. The biggest surprise I have had to date is when my DD8 came home with a letter about the 4th Commandment, Honor your father and mother, that explained that they would be tieing sex education into this. I personally do not see the connection in a 3rd grade classroom. As much as I thought it would be a positive thing for my kids to go to a Christian school, they really are missing out and are exposed to wierd things.

 

[fan_of_small_world]

They were required to take this class every year, starting around 4th right through high school. And just from a generic point of view, I had to take science through 11th grade, and I enjoyed it until 10th...but after that last year, I hate science! He is of the mindset that none of it can be proven, so it isn't fact and how can they teach it to children as real if it isn't proven. He says if they teach that as real in school, they should also continue to say Santa and the Tooth Fairy are real throughout school. The Christmas thing really gets to him..Jesus was not born on the 25th of December, but the Christians say he was so they could take the Pagan holiday of Yule and turn it into something Christian. The Christmas tree, Yule log....all Pagan traditions. Same with Easter, originally a Pagan holiday..coloring eggs, the spring colors. I have my beliefs and share them with our children, but do not feel it is anyone else's right to tell my children what to believe. School's are too diverse to try to teach religion. That is up to the parents.

Thanks! I understand it much better now. I think your original post said "a class," which I misinterpreted to mean just one class during one year. I can see where taking something almost every year of your schooling would have a major effect on your thoughts about the subject, whether positive or negative.

To paraphrase a PP, this has been a great discussion that I've really enjoyed participating in (even though it was a little off topic)!