OT: To go to K or not to go to K? That is the question!

[jubelee1872000]

Update 2015 on page 2------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please tell me what you think. Because I am racking my brain trying to decided on this.
Here is our story..dunnn...dunnn....lol

My DS4 is going to be 5 in September. He JUST makes the cut off for going to K this year as it has now been changed to November 1st. So he will be 4 when he starts.

My son seems so babyish to me still. He sounds a little babyish when he talks and you cannot make out every word he says. He still carry's a blankie and still takes a nap. He can get through the day without one..but at 6:30pm he is the devil.

He was in preschool when he was 3 and it was only 1 day per week and I was there with him, it was a mommy and me program.

This past year being 4 he was in a preschool program where he went 3 hours per day, 3 days per week which was costing me $145 per month.

Our school district used to have this program called the young fives program which I knew three years ago I would want him to be in. Unfortunately they did away with this program.

Where he is with his learning is..he can write his first name, he can recognize his first name..he can't cut very well and sometimes holds the scissors wrong..he only knows 5 letters of the alphabet and can count to about 13. He has a short attention span. He gets frustrated easily. DS 10 has ADHD and I hope that DS4 will not have it..but I know chances are stacked against us. Preschool teacher recommended either half day or preschool again..because she doesn't want him to get overwhelmed and hate school.

So now, our choices are...pay for preschool again...if we cant get a spot..

go to HALF day K in which case I will drive and pick up on my lunch hour. not a biggie.

OR go for it and go to full day K

Here is a list of my pro's and cons..

Half Day..Pro's..he will not be so overwhelmed with all the academics and not get as frustrated having to sit all day. He will still be able to come home and take a nap.

Con's-He will not get as much socializing or play, and they will try to cram just as much information into his brain with less time..I am worried he will be completely lost and a total crying mess and shut down..because he still seems like a baby to me..I will still have to have my mother in law over (paid) to watch him half a day.

Full day..Pro's..he can take the bus with his brother (DS10 who is in 5th grade and this will be his last year there before MS). He will get to have lunch at school, more time for friends and socialization and more reinforcement of subjects..Con's..I am truly afraid he will get lost there..He is not that great at following directions..and is easily distracted..i am scared he will get in trouble all the time for not sitting and not listening..or just truly not understand what is being said to him. I know that all I can do is try..but I just don't want to make him hate school and feel bad about himself and it is also not so good for my mommy ego either..He cannot take his blanket with him..

Also, if he is going to preK OR half day K these are at different schools than our "home" school. They only have the full time..at our home school.

So these are the K thoughts that are rattling around in my brain...Please let me know what you would do..or have don with your children..

Thanks!!!!

 

[ladylyons]

I feel your pain in having to make this decision. We actually had to make the same decision (back in February though) for our DD who is also going to be 4 at the start of the school year (her birthday is September 8).

Here's our background and how we came to the conclusion to send our DD to K (we only have 1/2 day here so the issue between 1/2 day and full day isn't an option). When my DD was 3 she went to a play based co-op Preschool 2 days a week for 2 1/2 hours a day (I worked in the class 2 days a month.) Her first year she started to learn the principals of socialization, learning to sit still and following directions (cutting, drawing, etc). The next year when she was 4 she went to the same preschool but went 3 days a week for 2 1/2 hours a day (I worked in the class 3 days a month.) There she learned more of her cutting skills, writing her name, sounds of the letters and numbers, counting, sitting still, following directions, etc.

Our choices for this upcoming year were Kinder Prep (same co-op preschool would have cost us $300 a month), Transitional Kindergarten (through the school district), and Kindergarten (also through the school district). I knew having my little one at home would make Kinder Prep near impossible to do because I would be in the class anywhere from 4 days a month to 8 days a month depending on how many students were enrolled in the class (max was 15 with 2 teachers). Transitional Kindergarten (TK) is geared towards the kids who just miss the cut off (which for us moves to October 1) but they opened it up to the children whose birthday's are also in July, August and September. TK also starts a lot of the basics for Kindergarten. Then of course Kindergarten.

I looked at what my oldest son was doing this past year in Kindergarten and really started watching my DD. She can count to 60 (sometimes higher) with no problems, she knows all the sounds to any letter you ask her, show her a letter or number and she can tell you what it is. She can even do basic math pretty easy (1+1 = 2 and even 100 + 100 = 200 and one that really surprised my DH was when she figured out that 100 + 1 = 101). She can sit and follow directions with little prompting, she's gotten really good at following a line when it comes to cutting and she's even learning how to sound out words. (A lot of this comes from having a brother who is only 19 months older than her and so she's seeing what he's doing and learning from that too.)

We decided to send her to Kindergarten. I talked to my son's Kindergarten teacher about everything she's doing and she agreed with me that she's ready (she even took some personal time to sit with my DD for about 30 mins and asked her some of the testing questions that the Kindergarteners get asked when they are tested and she even felt that my DD was ready.) My DS had some kids who were in the TK program and by the end of the year they were bored with Kindergarten (doing a lot of the same stuff from TK in K). I didn't want my DD to get bored. She get's bored and she get's in trouble. Need to keep her little mind working. I'm still torn on if we made the right decision but I feel in the long run we did.

I probably wasn't much help but in your situation I'd probably either send him to 1/2 day or preschool (if you can get in). He doesn't sound fully ready and I know here we have (California) 26 kids to 1 teacher and it does get difficult for the teacher when she's got a couple student's who can't sit and follow directions completely. I worked in the class anytime I could and saw the problems she would have at times (Working in the class was hard with a 2 year old and having to work in my DD's class. My MIL was a life saver though and would come and watch him anytime I needed! Thankfully she didn't ask for money, I'm a SAHM just don't have it. She just loved the one on one time with her youngest grandchild.) If my DD wasn't doing everything she is doing then we would have done TK. Good luck with your decision and what ever decision you make will be the best one for your family.

 

[4kids4karen]

I am against Red Shirting kids for school. But the decision is yours. Google these items "Red Shirting Kids" "Red Shirting Boys" "Red Shirttng Kindergarten". For example here is one article, although there are hundreds online. http://www.wceruw.org/news/coverStories/pros_cons_holding_out.php

You reason may not be to give your kids an academic advantage, however, from all of the parent boards I am on it seems to me that it is more the PARENTS not ready to let their kids go. Again, maybe this doesn't apply to you, but I have seen it. There are others who know darn well their kids are ready but want to make them the "smartest in the class" so to speak and hold them back so they excel academically compared to their peers. The problem is it's not really their peers. Although since it is more and more popular we will just start seeing older kids graduating. Instead of 17/18 as the average age, 19 or even 20 may be the more common age in the future to graduate high school. Kids who start a year late, may also still struggle and have to repeat a grade, etc.

In the past, it was kids wanting their kids to skip grades. That concept has went out the door for the majority. My little sister is going into 6th grade next year but she has older parents who are still under the skip a grade mentality and she skipped 4th grade. They pay for tutors to keep her at the top of her class. If you ask my sister she wants to skip as many grades as possible because she wants to go to med school and knows she has a lot of years of school ahead of her so the more she skips the earlier she can finish. LOL.

 

[brymolmom]

I, too, am against red shirting kids unless there is some documented delay that you are working on with doctors or other professionals. Your 4 year old sounds like a 'normal' 4 year old to me (problem with scissors, short attention span, etc). Your program is supposed to be for 4 year olds so normal 4 year olds are to be expected.

Personally, I think they need to legislate it so that the parent no longer has any 'decision' to make and that the playing field is as level as possible with all kids in the classroom within a 12 month span.

My dd started at 4 (October bday). She is 9 now and on her way into 5th grade. I am SO HAPPY I didn't hold her back.

It is your choice but my personal opinion is this - IF you decide to hold him back PLEASE, PLEASE do not turn around when he is in 1st, 2nd or 3rd grade and insist that the teacher provide 'more challenge' for him....It will not be surprising if he is way ahead of the other kids in his class - he will be 6 after all - But it was your choice to hold him back - so don't take the teacher resources away from the rest of the kids who are age-appropriate for that classroom by insisting he gets 2nd grade work when he's in 1st grade. If you want him to have challenging work - don't hold him back.

Best of luck...I know it's tough...Like I said that's why I think it shouldn't even be a choice.

 

[jubelee1872000]

It is BY FAR..not me that would "red shirt" him because I want him to be ahead of the game..he is actually only where a preschooler would be at the beginning of a year..(knowing a handful of letters, fumbling with scissors ect...), K is 5 not four..by November 1st..so even though you think he "sounds" like he is doing what 4 year old should be doing, they expect him to be doing what a 5 year old is doing.

For example..here is the of what the K expects him to know..GOING IN..

Write First Name? Yes
Recognize first name? Yes
Name all Capital letters in mixed order? NO
Rhyming Skills? No
Say the alphabet clearly without singing it? NO
Identify numbers 0-10-NO
Write Numbers 0-10-NO
Put numbers 0-10 in order (using a set of flashcards that are mixed up, put them in order 0-10)-NO
County aloud from 0-20-to 12ish they then they get crazy..so NO
Draw a picture including common objects: animals tree house person using basic shapes.-NO
Be familiar with the parts of a book: Cover, Text words, Where do you start Reading?-Kind of

So..this is not merely MY problem and "unreadiness" to send him..especially if the TEACHER is the first person to suggest it.

 

[Sparkly]

And they're supposed to know this BY kindergarten? I'm pretty sure we were taught our numbers, ABCs, reading, colours etc actually at school at the same age. I think I only really knew my ABCs, how to read and colours going into my first year of school. I started school way back in January 1999 though so it's probably changed since then!

 

[brymolmom]

It is BY FAR..not me that would "red shirt" him because I want him to be ahead of the game..he is actually only where a preschooler would be at the beginning of a year..(knowing a handful of letters, fumbling with scissors ect...), K is 5 not four..by November 1st..so even though you think he "sounds" like he is doing what 4 year old should be doing, they expect him to be doing what a 5 year old is doing.

For example..here is the of what the K expects him to know..GOING IN..

Write First Name? Yes
Recognize first name? Yes
Name all Capital letters in mixed order? NO
Rhyming Skills? No
Say the alphabet clearly without singing it? NO
Identify numbers 0-10-NO
Write Numbers 0-10-NO
Put numbers 0-10 in order (using a set of flashcards that are mixed up, put them in order 0-10)-NO
County aloud from 0-20-to 12ish they then they get crazy..so NO
Draw a picture including common objects: animals tree house person using basic shapes.-NO
Be familiar with the parts of a book: Cover, Text words, Where do you start Reading?-Kind of

So..this is not merely MY problem and "unreadiness" to send him..especially if the TEACHER is the first person to suggest it.

Bolded by me....Just to give you a heads-up, it is my experience having spoken to MANY teachers about this - that many teachers 'always' suggest holding them back. They figure that they encourage you to send him and there are issues (which there might be if you wait a year to send him too) that the parent will come back and point a finger at them. They cover their butts in many cases....

 

[Spunky946]

Having red shirted two kids with summer birthdays, I have not regretted it at all. Someone once told me if you are having second thoughts hold them back. I held my ds now 9 and entering third grade and it was the best thing that I did for him. He was behind socially and emotionally and is thriving in school.

My dd 5 is doing a transitional preschool class and is behind emotionally and a bit academically. We are at a very small elementary school and I did not want to have her deal with the stigma of repeating kindergarten.

I think one can not say I'm against red shirting across the board. We as parents have to do what is best for our child. There is life beyond kindergarten and elementary school. I knew that my children would not do well as the youngest children in middle school.

Do what you think is best for your child.

 

[cheer25mom]

You are going to get lots of people on the Dis telling you that holding them back is always better, the older kid has the advantage, ect but as an educator I will say that I would NEVER hold back a child without some sort of developmental delay that warranted it. A typical child will, in the vast majority of cases, do just fine if the parent is working with the teacher and upholding the expectations presented in the classroom. Kids have problems when parents are not on board and have the "I told you he wasn't ready" attitude rather than expecting the child to rise to the expectations of the classroom.

I think your biggest problem, based on what you are posting, is social maturity. Stop babying him now and start teaching him how to do things independently. He will be fine. I would definitely suggest full day school. He will suprise you if you let him and don't undermine the efforts in the classroom by babying him at home.

 

[amym2]

In most cases, as a former teacher, I advise parents to go ahead and send their kids. However, because his preschool teacher advised you against full-day K and because you have academic and social concerns, I would send him to preschool for another year. In most states, the cut-off is Sept. 1 (here in Indiana it is Aug. 1), so he would not be considered "old" for K going in at almost 6.

 

[4kids4karen]

My two cents would be to send him to K. If he doesn't progress by the end of the year, have him repeat K. There is no stigma at that age to repeat K if he is not ready by 1st grade at the end of the K school year.

In addition, the article I posted mentioned that by holding kids back when parents feel they are not ready may also delay identifying issues such as development delay that would otherwise have been identified earlier and treatment started early. OP, have you ever thought that perhaps your son may have something what would warrant an IEP or development treatment by a professional? I am in no way implying or trying to read between the lines of your post, however, you posted you feel he may not be ready. Do you believe there may be underlying issues? Once your son is in with his peers in K, these issues may stand out and warrant further investigation and may reveal there is an issue that the school can assist with? Just my two cents.

It is just my personal opinion that I would send my son to K the first year he was eligible. If he didn't progress to be ready for first grade, I would have him repeat K. At least you can say you made the attempt and the school and you agreed he wasn't ready for first grade. A lot can happen in a year.

 

[Happyjen27]

Part of your decision making process should include your school district's regulations.

Because of "Red Shirting" there have been some districts that go strictly by age when placing children into kindergarten and first grade. So, if you put him back into preschool now and count on Kindergarten in the following year, the district may take a look at his age, see he is technically aged for first grade and put him into first grade. Even without a kindergarten year.

Check with your district to see what their policy is before any decisions are made.

 

[Alexle2007]

Having just gone through kindergarten last year, I think you are missing some important pros for having him start kindergarten on time besides riding the bus and having lunch at school.

At least at my son's school, they did pre-assessments before kindergarten started so that they could try and appropriately group the students at the beginning of the school year. The assessment was on basic things- letter recognition, sound recognition, knowledge of book components, the numbers 1- 10 and basic number grouping. I would ask for the assessment results so you know what areas need to be strengthened. At the start of the school year, the kids were divided into 4 smaller groups for reading and math based on the assessment level and then the kids were adjusted to a different group once the teacher got to know the child and could make a better placement. For children who may have further behind, there was extra time during the school day that the teachers and assistants would pull the kids for add'l. Plus the fact that there are reading and math specialists at your disposable to evaluate and provide guidance to the teachers, in addition, to speech and language teachers. So that if he is delayed in his speech, they can work with him.

It's also our job as parents to be advocates for our children so if you see he is struggling, make sure you discuss with his teacher, inquire what you can do at home to support his being successful. My son kept coming home complaining that he was bored and was because he was being "taught" things he already knew and wasn't challenged enough. The teacher did her best to try and stretch the work level but is more difficult with advanced students. Once I shared with his teacher the level of work he was doing at home, the school really stepped in and adjusted what they were doing so he left kindergarten for 1st grade.

I will say that kindergarten is the new 1st grade and the 1st graders are doing what used to be 2nd grade and so on. But the focus has changed from when I was in kindergarten in the 70s and there we spent the day learning to tie our shoes and our address and it was only 1/2 of a day.

If I were you, I would not even be thinking about delaying but thinking about how you were going to be his advocate and work with his teacher and school to ensure his success. At least at my son's school, the teachers and principal really care about the students and want them to be successful. And utilize the resources that are at the school's disposal, if needed.

I think you will find once he is there, he will quickly start "maturing" and not be so baby-like but he'll need consistency between school and home. If his teachers ask him to use his big boy words, you should do the same at home else it will make it more challenging for the teachers to keep correcting the behavior.

Good luck!

 

[rachael95]

My sister had to make that choice with my nephew. They sent him and then decided he was just not ready to move on. They actually requested holding him back to re-do Kindergarten. He loved it. He needed that extra time to mature. He liked being one of the older ones in his class and able to drive when he was in high school. He was a sweet, quiet kid and turned into a sweet, quiet adult. For him, the right choice was to have him repeat Kindergarten. Unfortunately, it's hard to get a school system to allow that now-a-days because the goal is to churn kids through the system and never "leave a child behind" because you don't want them to feel that they failed when it could really be something totally different.

 

[mjkacmom]

And they're supposed to know this BY kindergarten? I'm pretty sure we were taught our numbers, ABCs, reading, colours etc actually at school at the same age. I think I only really knew my ABCs, how to read and colours going into my first year of school. I started school way back in January 1999 though so it's probably changed since then!

Quite a bit! They are supposed to know that all going in, and they start sight words and phonics the first week of kindergarten. They are supposed to be pretty independent readers before first grade.

 

[4kids4karen]

Quite a bit! They are supposed to know that all going in, and they start sight words and phonics the first week of kindergarten. They are supposed to be pretty independent readers before first grade.

Kindergarten varies from state to state and probably from district to district. My kids went into Kindergarten already knowing sight words, how to write their name, etc. They attended pre-school that taught them everything to prepare them for Kindergarten. My brother's DD started school in OK and none of the kids in her class knew their full ABCs, nor could write their name. It was common at their school.

 

[Egdisney]

It is BY FAR..not me that would "red shirt" him because I want him to be ahead of the game..he is actually only where a preschooler would be at the beginning of a year..(knowing a handful of letters, fumbling with scissors ect...), K is 5 not four..by November 1st..so even though you think he "sounds" like he is doing what 4 year old should be doing, they expect him to be doing what a 5 year old is doing.

For example..here is the of what the K expects him to know..GOING IN..

Write First Name? Yes
Recognize first name? Yes
Name all Capital letters in mixed order? NO
Rhyming Skills? No
Say the alphabet clearly without singing it? NO
Identify numbers 0-10-NO

Write Numbers 0-10-NO
Put numbers 0-10 in order (using a set of flashcards that are mixed up, put them in order 0-10)-NO
County aloud from 0-20-to 12ish they then they get crazy..so NO
Draw a picture including common objects: animals tree house person using basic shapes.-NO
Be familiar with the parts of a book: Cover, Text words, Where do you start Reading?-Kind of

So..this is not merely MY problem and "unreadiness" to send him..especially if the TEACHER is the first person to suggest it.

This tells me he isn't ready. I think a child should be 5 when they start K. Many states agree and have changed the cutoff to August 1st or earlier.
You do not want him to start with a disadvantage. In your case it is not redshirting, in my opinion. This is your decision, do what is best for your son. Kindergarten is much more difficult than it has been in the past. If you lived in NE or MO( the 2 states I am familiar with), you would not have the option to send him bc he would be too young.

 

[dsneprincess]

I would not send him. I don't call it "red shirting". Your son is too young & not ready. I was uneducated with my son and didn't know I could have not sent him as a very young k. Life would have been so different for him had I known & kept him out. It is a regret we have every year & it is more obvious now that we are at middle school. Trust your gut, you know what is best for your son!

 

[ladylyons]

One thing I forgot to mention is my DD's school called me (in June) on the day the list was going to be posted on if our child was in am or pm Kindergarten to talk to me about putting her into TK (Transitional Kindergarten) because of an assessment that was filled out in February by her preschool that said she wasn't ready. After I talked to the principal and told her how much had changed in 4 months she felt fine with my decision.

Part of our problem is our schools are over crowded so they figure the more kids they can push off to TK the better. We are one of the few states that are getting our cutoff date moved to September 1. Our original cut off was late December but over the last couple years it's moved by one month. This year it moves to October 1 and next year it moves to September 1. My poor youngest DS will now be 3 years behind his sister instead of 2 years (even though looking at even what he's doing now he may be ready for Kindergarten the year he should have gone not a year later but we'll see what happens it is what it is and I can't do anything to change it.)

Looking at the list of what your school wants them to know going in and what he does know I'd probably wait another year on sending him. It is a hard emotional decision. I don't think your holding him back by not sending him now. I feel like your giving him the time he needs to be where he needs to be when he does go into Kindergarten. In the end it's your decision no one else's.

A couple questions to maybe ask also before you make the final decision are:

How big are the classes?
How many teachers?
If my child is struggling what help can we get?

The schools should have things in place for students who are having a hard time keeping up. Good luck with what ever your final decision is and know it's probably the best one for you and your family at this time.

 

[letsgoreds]

I disagree with those talking about if a child has a disability/delay to wait a year...because then you are potentially delaying intervention. You don't want to delay early intervention. If the child wouldn't qualify for additional help, but is a bit behind/immature, I would absolutely wait another year before starting K. They are potentially going to be behind a lot, which is not fun, and can result in kiddos hating school...it doesn't matter how excellent of an advocate you are for your child. Take both academic and social maturity into consideration. Also realize that most public schools will NOT allow you to repeat K. It is nearly impossible in our district (very highly rated).

My personal experience. DS7 has a Sept 13 birthday, cutoff is Sept 30, so missed it by a couple of weeks. The majority of families with kids with summer and beyond birthdays give their kids the extra year, so he had a better shot of being with his peers by giving him the extra year. He would have been significantly younger than most of the kids if I had sent him at 4. He is academically very solid, and a taller kid, so no concerns there. For him, he is on the shy side, and socially doesn't get it like some of his peers. After speaking with some first grade teachers (to see how the younger kids fare) we decided to give them the extra year. He is doing outstanding and loves school. He is right where he should be.

This summer I watched a friend's son who is on the same baseball team as DS7, for a week. He is 8, turning 9 this summer(awesome kiddo). With a late summer birthday, they sent him, so he is going into 4th grade. We worked on homework together during our week and it was really, really hard for him. He talked about hating school, and academically wasn't that far ahead of DS7, who is going into second grade. It really cemented the fact that I am pleased with my choice to give DS7 the extra year.

My advice to you is to do what you feel like your son needs academically, not what is less $$$ or more convenient. I know it is tempting, but you will pay for it in the long term.

Every district is different, but most of the kids in our area go into K being able to read early readers, with a good number of sight words down pat.

Good luck! DS3 is a March birthday, so we are in the clear there!