OT- taking away the pacifier

[kgle]

It doesn't sound like the pacifier is the problem - you've already gotten rid of that and I wouldn't suggest you give it back at this point. The problem seems to be there is no enforcement of bedtime. By age 3 he should be expected to stay in bed if YOU say it is time - you are the parent. In my opinion even 9:30 is way too late for a child that age - my kids are almost 8 and 5 and they go to bed at 8:30 because otherwise they are grumps when 7:30 am rolls around and they have to get up. When he gets up, put him back in there - no lights, no toys, no talking, no interaction - simply put him back in the bed and leave. And do it over and over until he gets the idea.

For him 9:30 is amazing considering before his surgery he wasn't going to bed until 2 or 3am. It also worked with my work schedule when I got off work at 8:00 and didn't get home until 9:00pm. I'm a single parent so I don't really have the luxury of having his father come get him to make bedtime earlier. 9:30 works for us (he goes down between 8:30 and 9pm). I didn't post this to be criticized on his bedtime.

There IS enforcement of bedtime. I believe I stated in my OP that about a month and a half ago he was very consistent and staying in bed when he was put there. He also switched into a toddler bed at the beginning of the year so it took a while to get used to that. These new problems started when we lost his pacifier. I am also concerned that he is still having apneas when he sleeps. Not sure where non enforcement came from.

 

[kgle]

That's a tough one. I know many people feel they should give it up early. But I have three DSs - only one took a pacifier and he was the only one who would go to sleep for me. He took naps until he was three, he went to bed on time. We kept telling him big boys don't use pacifiers well he gave it up on his own - just before he turned 5 - when he decided he was a big boy. Once he was three he was only allowed to have it at bedtime and I'd take it away as soon as he was asleep (usually within 15 minutes). After having two other sons that wouldn't take the pacifier, wouldn't take naps and wouldn't go to bed by themselves. I felt that the sleep he (and I) would miss out on was not worth the forcing him to give up his pacifier. Some kids really need that sucking action to get themselves to sleep and if they don't have the pacifier may revert to the thumb. If you see him starting to suck his thumb it's best to give him back the pacifier. At least the pacifier can be taken away, the thumb can't. (Plus I know a little boy who lost this thumbnail from sucking - ewwww!)

ETA - talk to your pediatriction, not just your dentist. See what they think. Placement of the teeth may not be as important as the benefits of the pacifier.

Thanks for the advice His 3 year appointment is coming up soon and I will have to talk with her. I may have to end up giving the ENT a call as well to see if we need to evaluate the situation more. It sucks not knowing what's going on.

My dd8 was crazy about her pacifier. Her dentist wanted it gone by the time she was three, but her pediatrician didn't agree. His feeling is that it's a soothing tool, and gives many kids a very real sense of security. We all finally agreed that she could use it at nighttime when she went to bed (she gave up naps at 13 months old).

She gave up the pacifier right before she turned 5yo. I bought a pack of cloth diapers, washed them and put a lot of Downy in the rinse water to make them extra soft, and introduced them as her cloth pacifiers. I told her the pacifier fairy needed her baby pacifier for all the babies being born, but that big girls got to have a cloth pacifier. She bought into it, and still sleeps with a "cloth" every night. She'll probably take one on her honeymoon years from now, but at least the pacifier is out of her mouth!

Oh man I can see it now...DS going on his first date with his paci in his pocket just in case! DS doesn't take naps either and I feel that if he has it, it will only be for bedtime and that's it.

Please DO NOT under any circumstances give back that paci. You just need to get him up earlier in the morning if you want him to go to sleep eralier. MY DD is 5, and from the time she was 3 she goes to be at 8:00 and gets up at 6:00 on school days(we have to leave the house by 6:30 b/c I have to be at school at 7:00) and 7:00-7:30 on the weekends. Get him up when you get up. It is no wonder he wants to stay up all night if he isn't getting up untill 9:30.

Huh? He woke up at 9:30 in the morning, doesn't take naps, and was up until almost midnight. A normal child would be completely exhausted by then. I sleep in as long as I can since the main time I have to study is when he is in bed- so I am usually up pretty late. He wakes me up in the morning. My concern isn't getting him to bed earlier. His bedtime works in this household, however staying up super late doesn't. I am trying to figure out why this huge change in his sleeping habits and wanted to know if it was related to taking the pacifier away. I am also concerned that his sleep apnea went away slightly and its back in full force now. I know that none of you can truly answer that last part since you aren't his doctor, but I don't know. I could understand him wanting to stay up all night if he woke up at noon...but not 9:30

 

[kgle]

I agree with others that say don't give it back. I have started the thread on here "DD having oral surgery" and the dentist belives her dental problems are from her being on her pacifier too long. She was 2 1/2 when we took it away. Her upper jaw is too narrow and she is being fitted for a Hyrax appliance and having 2 teeth extracted next Thursday because her teeth are crowding.

When we took her paci away we replaced it with a little beanie baby horse (she LOVES horses, always has) she named him "Brown Horse"
She still loves "Brownie" and still sleeps with him every night

Oh and he always goes to Disney with us

Good luck

I just read your thread. I had to have the exact same thing done- the appliance and having two teeth extracted. I never sucked my thumb or used a pacifier. Dentists recommend 3 as the age to get them off of it, but definitely before permanent teeth come in. I wonder why the dentist thinks that the pacifier that she has been off of for 5 years has caused her jaw to narrow and have a bad bite...

Good luck with her though. I believe I was a bit older when I had my procedure but I went through more oral surgeries as a child (had a root canal at 3!). I remember feeling really really tired and also really emotional. I just wanted my mommy after my first surgery

 

[walkerag]

I just read your thread. I had to have the exact same thing done- the appliance and having two teeth extracted. I never sucked my thumb or used a pacifier. Dentists recommend 3 as the age to get them off of it, but definitely before permanent teeth come in. I wonder why the dentist thinks that the pacifier that she has been off of for 5 years has caused her jaw to narrow and have a bad bite...

Good luck with her though. I believe I was a bit older when I had my procedure but I went through more oral surgeries as a child (had a root canal at 3!). I remember feeling really really tired and also really emotional. I just wanted my mommy after my first surgery

Thanks, good luck to you too.l I'm not really sure why but that's what the dentist told me He just mentioned the possibility and I was like "oh yeah, she did love her paci", it wasn't a once in a while thing for her though it was a constant comfort thing. I do feel your pain with the bedtime thing. She had an awful time with the toddler bed transition and no matter how tough I tried to be, DH worked 3rd shift at the time, she would not go to sleep in it. Getting 3 hours of sleep at night and then getting up and driving 1 hour each way to work was not working
Thanks for the encouraging words though

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

Huh? He woke up at 9:30 in the morning, doesn't take naps, and was up until almost midnight. A normal child would be completely exhausted by then. I sleep in as long as I can since the main time I have to study is when he is in bed- so I am usually up pretty late. He wakes me up in the morning. My concern isn't getting him to bed earlier. His bedtime works in this household, however staying up super late doesn't. I am trying to figure out why this huge change in his sleeping habits and wanted to know if it was related to taking the pacifier away. I am also concerned that his sleep apnea went away slightly and its back in full force now. I know that none of you can truly answer that last part since you aren't his doctor, but I don't know. I could understand him wanting to stay up all night if he woke up at noon...but not 9:30

It seems like you guys don't live and breath by a schedule, and I say "Cheers to you!" for that. I think there is WAY too much emphasis on an ordered life for little ones.

I'm in a similar situation. My DS2.5 will go all day without a nap and stay up late, still going strong. He's the type that is petrified that he will miss something if he's asleep, so he tries not to.

As long as things work for you, stick with it. Checking with an ENT might be a good place to start vs. putting him through another sleep study. Best of luck and hope that everything works out sooner than later!

 

[princessmom29]

Thanks for the advice His 3 year appointment is coming up soon and I will have to talk with her. I may have to end up giving the ENT a call as well to see if we need to evaluate the situation more. It sucks not knowing what's going on.





Oh man I can see it now...DS going on his first date with his paci in his pocket just in case! DS doesn't take naps either and I feel that if he has it, it will only be for bedtime and that's it.




Huh? He woke up at 9:30 in the morning, doesn't take naps, and was up until almost midnight. A normal child would be completely exhausted by then. I sleep in as long as I can since the main time I have to study is when he is in bed- so I am usually up pretty late. He wakes me up in the morning. My concern isn't getting him to bed earlier. His bedtime works in this household, however staying up super late doesn't. I am trying to figure out why this huge change in his sleeping habits and wanted to know if it was related to taking the pacifier away. I am also concerned that his sleep apnea went away slightly and its back in full force now. I know that none of you can truly answer that last part since you aren't his doctor, but I don't know. I could understand him wanting to stay up all night if he woke up at noon...but not 9:30

I really was just trying to help. I know if my DD didn't get up untill 9:30 she would definitely be up hours past her bed time. I was simply trying to suggest that mabye he is a child that requires less sleep, and that an earlier wake up time would prevent him from staying up all night. If he does not nap at all during the day then that could be an indicator that he needs less sleep than the average 3 year old as well. If a 9:30 bed time works for you them that is great. Make that bedtime, but mabye if he is not falling asleep at 9:30 like you want him to do you could try getting him up a little earlier in the morning. That way he would be ready to sleep at 9:30 like you want him to do. Taking away the paci is probably contributing to him being restless, and an earlier wake up time would mean that he would be more tired at night and more likely to just forget about the paci and sleep anyway. I would probably still check with the doctor as the physiology of the way he breathes when sleeping may have changed, especially if he tended to sleep with the paci in his mouth.

 

[princessmom29]

It seems like you guys don't live and breath by a schedule, and I say "Cheers to you!" for that. I think there is WAY too much emphasis on an ordered life for little ones.

I'm in a similar situation. My DS2.5 will go all day without a nap and stay up late, still going strong. He's the type that is petrified that he will miss something if he's asleep, so he tries not to.

As long as things work for you, stick with it. Checking with an ENT might be a good place to start vs. putting him through another sleep study. Best of luck and hope that everything works out sooner than later!

I feel completely the opposite. Kids need structure and consistency in their lives. Think about how you would feel physically if you stayed up untill 2am one day, went to work at 10 am, then came home and went to bed at 6 pm, them were wide awake at 4 am the next day. Pretty hard to function like that right? Little ones are the same way. Betime is one thing I will not budge on because kids need an adequate amount of sleep at a consistany time to stay healthy.

 

[kgle]

It seems like you guys don't live and breath by a schedule, and I say "Cheers to you!" for that. I think there is WAY too much emphasis on an ordered life for little ones.

I'm in a similar situation. My DS2.5 will go all day without a nap and stay up late, still going strong. He's the type that is petrified that he will miss something if he's asleep, so he tries not to.

As long as things work for you, stick with it. Checking with an ENT might be a good place to start vs. putting him through another sleep study. Best of luck and hope that everything works out sooner than later!

I think that's what my DS's problem is. I have read about it in parenting books as well that focus on sleep problems. He truly thinks much more exciting things are going on while he is in his bedroom! Little does he know that studying for anatomy is NOT exciting, but if he would like to trade me I would gladly go to bed at 9:30

I really was just trying to help. I know if my DD didn't get up untill 9:30 she would definitely be up hours past her bed time. I was simply trying to suggest that mabye he is a child that requires less sleep, and that an earlier wake up time would prevent him from staying up all night. If he does not nap at all during the day then that could be an indicator that he needs less sleep than the average 3 year old as well. If a 9:30 bed time works for you them that is great. Make that bedtime, but mabye if he is not falling asleep at 9:30 like you want him to do you could try getting him up a little earlier in the morning. That way he would be ready to sleep at 9:30 like you want him to do. Taking away the paci is probably contributing to him being restless, and an earlier wake up time would mean that he would be more tired at night and more likely to just forget about the paci and sleep anyway. I would probably still check with the doctor as the physiology of the way he breathes when sleeping may have changed, especially if he tended to sleep with the paci in his mouth.

I'm sorry if I came off rude, just that parenting instinct ya know? I just get so frustrated with him sometimes and don't have anywhere else to turn to (my mom is NO help at all, you would think she never raised two children!). At this point, I truly think that taking away the pacifier is what contributed to the staying up late. Before I was putting him down between 8:30 and 9:00 and he was out by 9:30 tops. He falls asleep with the paci in his mouth but I am almost positive that once in deep sleep it falls out. I guess 12 hours is the average amount of sleep for a 3 year old, so who knows what's going on because he normally gets 12 hours (except during this crazy time where he has decided to be nocturnal). I do wish he would go back to naps but even if he takes one then he is up much much later. Its been hard lately to find an even ground with him! Thanks for your advice though

I feel completely the opposite. Kids need structure and consistency in their lives. Think about how you would feel physically if you stayed up untill 2am one day, went to work at 10 am, then came home and went to bed at 6 pm, them were wide awake at 4 am the next day. Pretty hard to function like that right? Little ones are the same way. Betime is one thing I will not budge on because kids need an adequate amount of sleep at a consistany time to stay healthy.

I do agree with you. While I don't have a completely set schedule like wake time, breakfast time, lunch time, play time, dinner, etc...bedtime is something I don't budge on. While it may take him a long time to fall asleep and unless we are doing something out of the ordinary I try my hardest to get him down around the same time every night. Kids do crave structure whereas with an infant I was much more lax. I try to do lunch and dinner around the same time but that's not set in stone...since he has to go with me wherever I go it gets a little hectic but 99% of the time we have bedtime as usual.

 

[Fintastic]

When DD was 2½ we decided she was a bit old for her paci, so we gathered them all together and cut the tips off. When she tried them, she found they were "broken" and had no problem throwing them all away. It was the best way for us. She would have thrown a fit if they'd all just disappeared, but seeing for herself that they were "broken" was something she could accept.

 

[Miss LD]

DS is turning 5 in a couple of weeks and he still has his soother.
But, let me explain. It's his comfort item and every attempt we have made to give it up has been disastrous.
Not that this is related to soothers, but he has ADHD and we just went through close to a year of assessments.
So, since we were spending hours with a psychologist we brought up the topic of soothers. His suggestion was to let him only have it in bed (easy enough) and to take it out of his mouth when he is asleep - since it's more of a comfort item than anything.
Many many nights now he is content to sleep with it under his pillow, or holding it.
We tried to tell him about the soother fairy and he refused to go to sleep because he thought someone was going to steal his soothers. Disastrous!

 

[jenn10a]

Could he be teething. My DD just got 3 molars. I realize 2.5 is late for teeth but she just got them at 31 months.

We lost our binkie at WDW of all places. We were down to naps and bedtime only too. I looked every where. In the car, diaper bag, strollers, pack and play. We went and bought a pack and when we got back to my mom's house in Kissimmee she said she was tired so she put her down for a nap. I was amazed! She asked at bedtime for it and my mom reminded her she left it at Mickey Mouse's house and she nodded and went to sleep.

I returned the binkies I bought when we got home. Then I found the lost one in the diaper bag. I think my mom may have took it then put it back because it bothered her a lot. DD was like 20 months.

 

[tink1969]

This is how I got my daughter, who was almost 3 years old, to finally get rid of her "dodo".
When she wasn't looking, I cut part of the tip off the silicone nipple so there was a hole. When she went to use it, she stuck it in her mouth and found it "broken". Her eyes popped out of her head, it was so funny!
I told her that since it was broken, she would have to throw it in the garbage. And she did. I did this for a couple of days, until all her pacifiers were "broken" and she, herself, put them in the garbage.
Once the last one was thrown out...that was it! To my relief, she never asked for a new one. I think it was easier because she felt she had done it herself.
Good luck!

 

[tink1969]

Wow, I just read page 2 of the posts. I didn't realize so many parents already had the same idea of cutting of the tip of the paci.
Goes to show you that it works!

By the way, to those that think you should take it away pacis, bottles etc early....thats a personal decision.
I sucked my thumb until I was nine! My mother tried everything to get me to stop. I eventually hid from her so she wouldn't see me.
When I had my own kids, I didn't want them to discover their thumbs so I was more than happy to give them a pacifier. Waaaay easier to get rid of than a thumb don't you think?

 

[tinkermom23]

I think you should talk to your pediatrician. DS still had his paci and the dentist was totally having a fit yet our pediatrician said he should keep it since he really needed something to help him calm down and realx until he was mature enough to figure out how to calm himself. He also had tonsils/adnoids removed, had sleep apnea, adhd and tactical sensitivity issues. But his teeth are just fine!!!

Anyway, when he was going into Kindergarten, my best friend had a baby and we gathered up all our paci's and put them in a gift bag and DS gave them to the new baby so he could use them. Then we went out and bought a puppy!!!

What I am trying to say is you know your child and you should follow your instincts. Moms usually have pretty good feelings as to what is right for their kids.

 

[princessmom29]

Wow, I just read page 2 of the posts. I didn't realize so many parents already had the same idea of cutting of the tip of the paci.
Goes to show you that it works!

By the way, to those that think you should take it away pacis, bottles etc early....thats a personal decision.
I sucked my thumb until I was nine! My mother tried everything to get me to stop. I eventually hid from her so she wouldn't see me.
When I had my own kids, I didn't want them to discover their thumbs so I was more than happy to give them a pacifier. Waaaay easier to get rid of than a thumb don't you think?

Ummm, most thumb suckers I know only started when their passies were taken at 3 or 4. I don't think I know of a child older than 2 that sucks a thumb who didn't have a passie still at 2.

 

[xman111]

Ummm, most thumb suckers I know only started when their passies were taken at 3 or 4. I don't think I know of a child older than 2 that sucks a thumb who didn't have a passie still at 2.

my son is 5, he sucks his thumb (mostly when he gets tired) all the time but was never into pacifiers, go figure.

 

[princessmom29]

my son is 5, he sucks his thumb (mostly when he gets tired) all the time but was never into pacifiers, go figure.

It happens, but it seems to be a much more common thing for kids that had them for extended periods.

 

[txloopnlil]

Remember that through most of human existance, children would nurse exclusively much longer, and continue nursing until the next child was born typically at 3 or 4 years. Tandem nursing of a toddler for soothing may continue up to 5-6 years, in many societies studied. Early weaning from the breast is the abnormal condition for humans, so there is a reason for such a strong sucking urge in babies and toddlers.

Super binkie boy - 5 now -doesn't thumb suck, but I have to be at him all the time for nail biting and chewing on his fingers. I don't know if this is connected, but he was the baby who had the hardest time latching on when nursing, and ended up on the bottle primarily first, so I wonder if his sucking instinct didn't get satisfied properly.

His twin didn't care for pacifers too much after the 18 months, but he wanted to nurse or suck a bottle going to sleep for at least another year. He didn't care when I insisted he could only have water in the bed - it was the sucking he wanted. When he had long dropped bottles during the day he wanted one at bedtime. He dropped it pretty much on his own when I refused to wash his bottles (he would carry them all around the house and lose them)- he didn't want to wash them either and they got mildew in them.

He also had developed another soother on his own as an infant and as soon as he developed the ability to rub his fingers together loved to rub the tag on his shirts or the pillowcase, etc. We had some problems with the daycare and my step-mother, who thought the tags were bothering him and cut them off even after I told them not too. He would get frantic and he went through one period when he wouldn't wear a shirt until he checked that it had a "silfy" (his word for silky and slippery combined) tag. I still catch him absent-mindly rubbing his tags when watching movies, etc.

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

I feel completely the opposite. Kids need structure and consistency in their lives. Think about how you would feel physically if you stayed up untill 2am one day, went to work at 10 am, then came home and went to bed at 6 pm, them were wide awake at 4 am the next day. Pretty hard to function like that right? Little ones are the same way. Betime is one thing I will not budge on because kids need an adequate amount of sleep at a consistany time to stay healthy.

DS has more of a routine than a schedule. I refuse to redo my entire life because DS MUST be down for a nap at 2:00. It's okay if things are off slightly. I believe having too much structure hinders creativity. I don't want my kids growing up asking permission before they do anything because it doesn't fit into our daily schedule.

We eat around the same time everyday, if he takes a nap, that's great, but life will go on if he doesn't get one. Bathtime varies by day, sometimes it right after dinner, other days it's earlier due to swimming or overnight visits, it just depends. Bedtime is within an hour each night. DH and I both work and we work our butts off for our kids, but we will not allow our kids to run our lives. We all work as a team, it's not us and them.

 

[badblackpug]

I wouldn't give up and give the pacifier back. I would continue putting him to bed at the same time as always, just be firm that he has to stay quiet and stay in bed. I think kids just go through these phases where sometimes they sleep better than other times. My older 3 (youngest is only 13 months) all went through this at about 3, as another poster said, hey were afraid they would miss something while they were asleep! Just continue to enforce bedtime. They have to stay in the bed and they have to stay quiet. As for the sleep apnea...the only way to tell, I guess, would be another sleep study.