OT- Some1 called Humanes society on us!

PaDisney02

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Some1 made an annonymous tip to the Humanes society on me for cruelty to animals! Big Mistake! To make along story short 4 years ago we got a puppy, he was fine for about a year then had trouble walking (legs fall out from under him). We immediatly took him to the vet. he was diagnosed w/ a nurologically(sp?) disorder. We were told the only thing we could do was take him for an experimental sugery 1 hour away which cost 2K. We decided not to do that 1. because the surgery had very slim chances of working and 2. the dog does not seem in pain. Fast forward 3 years later to now...the dog is still living,yes has trouble walking, is very lovable and does not seems to be in pain. He is however thin which is because of his dosorder. 2 days ago the Humanes society knocks on my door! Saying I am guilty of crulety to animals! He demanded to see my dog food and asked if my dog was hit by a car. I told him the whole long history of this dog. He called my vet to confirm everything and says I have 4 days to take him back to the vet and the vet will make the "final decision" on what happens 2 my dog. He said that just because the dog isnt complaining doesnt mean he isnt in pain. He says the dog is just living w/ his pain. Appanrenly they say you cant just let your animal live out a terminal disorder. They said it would be in his best intrest to either get him the surgery or put him to sleep. How can they tell me what to do with my own dog! Just becasue someone made a false complaint about me my whole family is in an uproar! I dont want to put him to sleep 4 all we know he could live many more years. What would you do?
 
Check with the Humane Society to see if they have the funds to pay for the surgery.
Also see what the laws are in your area as far as what is considered abuse and see if the HS has a right to make those demands.

Good Luck. :goodvibes
 
I'm sorry you're going through this; it sounds awful.

I do have to say that I recently got the same lecture about dogs not showing their pain the way we would expect them to. Our dog was 14 years old. He had sufferred an illness last summer that caused him to lose tons of weight. Even after treatment, he didn't gain back much weight. Then he started losing again. He was skin and bones, and the vet couldn't determine what was wrong with him. We had been going on the assumption that as long as he didn't show signs of pain that he was okay. A dear friend who was a vet tech for years told my husband that letting our dog go was a "gracious gift" we could give to him to end his sufferring. Of course, our dog was very old, and your's is young. I hope that the vet determines that he isn't in pain or that the treatment has a good chance of working. This must be so upsetting for you all.

Good luck.
 
I find this whole thing infuriating. Obviously, you are the owner and are not doing anything cruel to your dog. I have written and deleted some very clear thoughts I have about this for fear of being called upon by some random lobbyist group looking to appease the one person who would take offense to my comments. :mad: :mad:
I am sorry you have been put in this position and I hope for the best for you!:hug:
 

I find this whole thing infuriating. Obviously, you are the owner and are not doing anything cruel to your dog. I have written and deleted some very clear thoughts I have about this for fear of being called upon by some random lobbyist group looking to appease the one person who would take offense to my comments. :mad: :mad:
I am sorry you have been put in this position and I hope for the best for you!:hug:


What? You're not seriously saying a dog owner would never mistreat a dog are you? Because that's a beautiful thought, but not a reality.

I am sure the OP is doing what she believes to be best for her dog- otherwise she'd hardly bother posting about it. I am equally sure that the Humane Society sees dozens of homes where that is not the case every month and that even if the owner thinks they are doing the best, they can be wrong. The Humane Society is there to prevent accidental abuse as well as deliberate.
 
The Humane Society is a 501C3 charity, and has no authority under law, period.

OP, you are under no obligation to respond to the Humane Society's requests, nor give in to their demands or threats.

Investigating a complaint is admirable. Deciding that they know more than the OP about the family pet and making demands, imposing deadlines, and ordering the OP and the family around is unconscionable.
 
The Humane Society is a 501C3 charity, and has no authority under law, period.

Exactly. The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is an animal rights group. Many local charities use "humane society" in their names, but are not usually law enforcement. Did these people display badges or present any ID showing they were investigating as per local law and had the authority to do so?

Your county's or city's animal control division has legal authority to investigate cruelty and make demands of you. I would call them if I were you (your animal control officials) and ask what the laws are in your area and who the official investigators are.

OP, you are under no obligation to respond to the Humane Society's requests, nor give in to their demands or threats.

If, in fact, the people who contacted you are not your local authorities, I would call the police. That is harassment if it is not a state/county sanctioned investigation, and is instead a private organization.

It's as if a private citizens child protection group "investigated" you for child abuse, rather than your area's child welfare division and the police.

Investigating a complaint is admirable.

They should leave investigations up to the legal authority in such matters, and transfer complaints to them

Deciding that they know more than the OP about the family pet and making demands, imposing deadlines, and ordering the OP and the family around is unconscionable.

Agreed
 
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Unfortunately, this is becoming the norm here in PA. Some of the other posters, from other states, are incorrect in assuming that the Animal Rights based Humane Societies have no legal authority. Here in PA, they are extended that authority (to enforce the dog laws & handle suspected animal cruelty cases) by our state government's Dept. of Agriculture. It is a very sad situation. Lots of animal owners and legitimate rescue groups are being targeted for no other reason than that someone within the AR system takes issue with them--regardless of whether or not any actual law has been violated. And heaven forbid you choose against having a 'disabled' or elderly animal put to sleep. If any pet is determined to be in less than perfect condition, they can and often will seize it... regardless of whether or not the animal's condition is currently being overseen by a licensed veterinarian.

The AR's behind the ongoing changes here in PA know that a lot of people simply can not financially afford to take them to court, to attempt to prove their innocence and regain ownership of their seized animals. And if the newly introduced legislation regarding changes to 'strengthen' the dog laws is passed, these types of seizures will only increase. The proposals are aimed at taking away all owner's rights in relation to how pet dogs are housed, maintained, exercised, etc.. The new legislation would also allow the search of any/every PA dog owner's home, without a warrant. The situation here in PA really is a mess at present. :headache:
 
Oh my! That means PA has opened the doors to vigilantism. That may bite them in the behind.

I would still call my local authorities and ask them what the local HS has the authority to do and the statutes granting such authority to private charitable organizations.
 
i say take the dog back to the vets make sure he isnt iin any sort of pain get the dogs medical records and have the vet write a note about the dogs medical situation and how it is to be treated etc.(CYOA) Also i would tell the vet at if any point the dog is in any sort of pain you wish it to be humainly put to rest.then the vet can put that in the dogs chart . i dont think they can come in and say hey lady your dog is walking funny and we want vet records. my neighbor called on me before because our great dane was limping . Animal care and control came out looked at her and asked what happend. i said well brittany thinks she is a gazel and decided to jump the fence like she used to as a pup and hit the fence when she went over and messed up her leg. the vet said it was in the muscle and nothing we could do for her. they accepted it and left with nothing further. another time a kid said our dog bit him so ok they took the great dane to the shelter for 14 day quarenteen. come to find out the kid was bitten on the ankle and the mother was money hungry. come to find out it as my moms carin terrier who bit him not the dane ( who would have a hard time bending to bite a small kids ankle anyways ) . It is very sad you are going thru this. I think the vet is your best source to say what goes on with your dog NOT a humane society. the neighbor might of ment well but opened a huge can of worms for you. i dont think the humane Society can mandate you put a dog down just because he has a medical condition. see if they will pay for the surgery because you can not.At least it shows them that you do care for the dog . if dogs are in pain they let you know but crying out or not wanting to walk etc.it dosent eem like your dog is doing any of those things sine the neighbor had to see him outside running about. Why didnt the neighbor just call you and exspress there concern ? people irritate me. they call DCF for no reason also.. just my 2 cents worth .
 
I hate to tell you, but dogs don't show signs of pain. Our dogs love us and do not want to burden us, but losing/not gaining weight is a BIG sign something is wrong.

The person I blame is your vet! What a rotten vet to not explain this to you. What a horrible vet to, at the very least, not put your dog on meds for the pain.

I don't blame you for not shelling out 2K for an iffy surgery, but you may want to see if there have been any advancements over the last several years. Or check to see if there are any groups out there that will fund it, at least partially.

I also say, shame on the breeder! How many other pups have this same disorder? Those parents should never be bred again. The breeder should have replaced the pup or given your money back. Or, this is another reason to not use a backyard breeder or buy from a pet store that uses puppy mils. This is why pets should be spayed/neutered. Ok, off my soap box now.

I know here the Humane Society and SPCA work with Animal Control to investigate complaints of animal abuse. They have a contract with the county that is legal.

OP--You did not do anything wrong; you were not properly informed by those who should have educated you. It is a sucky situation. But you don't want your dog living in pain. If you do decide to put the dog down, remember it will be in its best interests if nothing can be done for your dog and it is in pain. I'd switch vets, too. I'm sorry for your pain. :hug:
 
I hate to tell you, but dogs don't show signs of pain.

I have raised 12 dogs to old age on my life, and they showed signs when in pain. Whimpering, yelping, or whining most often, lethargy or refusing to move sometimes.

but losing/not gaining weight is a BIG sign something is wrong.

Yes, the dog has a neurological condition and is under professional care.

The person I blame is your vet! What a rotten vet to not explain this to you. What a horrible vet to, at the very least, not put your dog on meds for the pain.

There are many conditions, in humans and animals, that cause difficulties or disabilities but not pain. How do you know this isn't one of them? Are you a vet?

I also say, shame on the breeder! How many other pups have this same disorder? Those parents should never be bred again.The breeder should have replaced the pup or given your money back. Or, this is another reason to not use a backyard breeder or buy from a pet store that uses puppy mils. This is why pets should be spayed/neutered. Ok, off my soap box now.

The OP made no mention of where she got the puppy, nor do you have any information as to whether this condition is genetic or just one of those things. You are making huge assumptions here, with zero information on which to base them.

I know here the Humane Society and SPCA work with Animal Control to investigate complaints of animal abuse. They have a contract with the county that is legal.

It seems many municipalities are doing this. I think it's dangerous to give authority to private citizens who may jump to enormous, and quite possibly erroneous conclusions as you have.

OP--You did not do anything wrong; you were not properly informed by those who should have educated you. It is a sucky situation. But you don't want your dog living in pain.

You have zero evidence on which to base an assumption that the dog is pain, unless you are a licensed trained vet who has examined the animal in question.
 
Wow, for someone who is accusing others of making assumptions, you sure are doing a lot of it yourself.

I have raised 12 dogs to old age on my life, and they showed signs when in pain. Whimpering, yelping, or whining most often, lethargy or refusing to move sometimes.

I, too, have raised over a dozen dogs to old age. And, yes, dogs do show signs they are in pain, but sometimes dogs also don’t show a huge amount of outward signs of pain too. And that is frequently more common. It all depends. That is why when you take a dog to a vet they pull a dogs legs up and lean into the body to feel for slight twitches if they are testing for pain.

Yes, the dog has a neurological condition and is under professional care.

You do not know if the dog is going through ongoing care. Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. The OP does not say if she takes her dog to the vet any more frequently than a healthy dog would go to the vet, as needed for shots or illness. The OP may be. I never said she wasn’t. The OP said the dog was underweight. That tells me two things—either the dog can not/will not eat, one of those signs of pain, or the dog can not properly digest food. Just like with people, dogs are given supplements or IVs when they can not digest food to get their weight up. The OP made no mention of this; in fact, she said the dog was underweight, which makes me think that the vet is not helping the dog put on weight. If a dog is not digesting food and is not being helped with medication, I would think—very logically—that the dog might not be getting the proper nutrition, and therefore, *might* be in poor health otherwise. Vets are like human doctors and every other profession; they are not all created equal. I’ve seen some really rotten vets and I’ve seen some really fantastic vets.

There are many conditions, in humans and animals, that cause difficulties or disabilities but not pain. How do you know this isn't one of them? Are you a vet?

I do not know this, but the dog is underweight. It’s a sign. See above. I am not a vet, but I grew up with a vet and have siblings who are vets and good friends who are vets. With as many dogs as I have had, I have also been to the vet’s office many times. Oh, and I used to live with a breeder. And if I were a vet, I wouldn’t diagnose from a posting on an internet message board. I am also (yes, assuming) that the person who came out to investigate looked the dog over and saw signs of pain, or possible pain, and since this person spoke to the vet—the OP states as much—I’m also assuming they were given reason to think a vet needed to look the animal over again.

The OP made no mention of where she got the puppy, nor do you have any information as to whether this condition is genetic or just one of those things. You are making huge assumptions here, with zero information on which to base them.

Where on earth did I ever say definitively that the OP got the dog from a breeder? I also mentioned backyard breeders—those that think it will be fun to have their dogs have puppies or are just in it to make money without care to genetic testing to be sure the animals are in good shape. I also mentioned pet stores. No reputable breeder sells to pet stores; it’s puppy mills that are willing to supply to pet stores. I also mentioned people who just don’t alter their animals so when they get out on accident, they meet up with another animal and are suddenly pregnant. Of course, the OP could have just found a dog from a shelter and that’s a fantastic thing. I’ve had rescue dogs myself, but they come from one of the above sources originally. Yes, it could be just one of those things, but chances are that it is genetic somewhere down the line. That is why good breeders put their dogs through extensive genetic testing before breeding—that is why dogs from breeders cost so much; good breeders try to do away with as many problems as possible. You are making assumptions in the opposite with zero information on which to base them.

It seems many municipalities are doing this. I think it's dangerous to give authority to private citizens who may jump to enormous, and quite possibly erroneous conclusions as you have.

Those private citizens are trained, not just volunteers. In our county they go through the same training as Animal Control and most also have some type of veterinary experience too. They are actually MORE qualified than Animal Control. Personally, I would rather have that person come out and take a look than someone who has never had any vet tech or vet classes. It’s less money for the county, tax dollars are able to be used elsewhere, and it is better for the animals that are being looked at. You have no idea if my conclusions are erroneous or yours are. As a matter of fact, you are doing a heck of a lot more assuming than I am.

You have zero evidence on which to base an assumption that the dog is pain, unless you are a licensed trained vet who has examined the animal in question.

You have zero evidence on which to base an assumption that the dog is not in pain, unless you are a licensed trained vet who has examined in depth the animal in question. And I never made that assumption; I said “IF”. Do you disagree that she should keep the dog alive in pain if it is in pain without doing anything for that pain? I am positive that the OP cares for and loves this dog very much. I am sure that the OP has always acted in what she thought was the dog’s best interests. Why such a chip on your shoulder?

I would like to *think* that whoever called in was concerned for the dog and not just trying to do the OP harm. They probably also called in anonymously in order to save whatever type of relationship they may have with the OP. Or maybe they just didn’t want retaliation from anyone, not that I think the OP would, but who knows how other people think? Maybe they just want to have minimum involvement. A lot of those calls, do, in fact, lead to awful care of the animals and get them in much better situations and a lot of people wouldn’t call in if they had to leave their names.
 
Watch it everyone.........................This is heading in the direction of being closed.:goodvibes

No one except the OP and their vet knows the real situation. I feel for everyone involved, but we really need to be nice to eachother:goodvibes :goodvibes :goodvibes :goodvibes :goodvibes
 
Watch it everyone.........................This is heading in the direction of being closed.:goodvibes

No one except the OP and their vet knows the real situation. I feel for everyone involved, but we really need to be nice to eachother:goodvibes :goodvibes :goodvibes :goodvibes :goodvibes

Iagree with Annie this lady has been thru enough. leave negative stuff alone. She is asking for help and not sure that i helped either but gesh . makes me wanna cry what I read. :goodvibes i hope it all works out for the best :thumbsup2
 
Thank you all so very much for all your thoughts and sympathy. I'm gonna take him back to the vet 2marrow and see what he thinks is our best option. I hate to put the dog to sleep because he is such a good dog and he really loves us and my kids,but I hate to put him through any type of pain. The fact that he is loosing weight is also a big concern. I'm just wondering if maybe his body is just starting to breakdown even more. Its only been a couple months since he started loosing weight. He eats everyday but not like he should or like he did a couple years ago. I just wish I knew how long he would live if we do nothing. When he was diagnosed the vet wanted us to take him for the operation the next day. I wish they would have told us how long they expected him to live. Its almost as if they were not willing to give us much info on his disorder because we went against their wishes of getting the surgery. I have alote to think about tonight. Thanks again for all your advice and support.
 
I wish you the best. I do think its very common also for dogs not to show signs of pain(and that's not to say they don't, either). They just seem to live with it and it could be that the weight loss is a serious sign that your dog needs some help...whether it be a surgery or euthaniziation. I also want to blame your vet a bit for not explaining things to you very clearly, it seems.
I think you're doing the best you can by taking the dog back to the vet...you're in my thoughts.:goodvibes
 
I feel your pain...literally. Our golden retriever Baxter also was born with a very similar condition. He was euthanized at 5 months. Terrible. He was not in pain. He was a happy, free spirit...so beautiful. But the bigger he got, the harder he fell. And then he was in pain. He was also very skinny, although he ate like a horse! We used to feed him bags of pigs ears (his fav.) because we knew his time was limited. It wasn't a question of him having surgery, it just wasn't an option. No one had seen this exact condition before. We took him to a teaching university, where they worked with another university, to try to put some kind of plan together. No one knew what to do, so we made the decision as a family, to let him continue on to the Rainbow Bridge. He was taken to the university, euthanized and was donated to them, to try and figure out what this was, and the course of action, to take with other dogs. One of the hardest days of my life, but he ended up being a hero.
Go with your gut. If you feel it is time, you will know. If it is time, let him go.
I'm so sorry, for your situation.:sad1:
 
No one has the right to enter a person's home and make demands of them without a court order. I would no sooner allow a Humane officer in than a Children's Services worker.

I'm sorry for what you are dealing with. Hopefully you can'get some good guidance from your vet.
 
Thank you all so very much for all your thoughts and sympathy. I'm gonna take him back to the vet 2marrow and see what he thinks is our best option. I hate to put the dog to sleep because he is such a good dog and he really loves us and my kids,but I hate to put him through any type of pain. The fact that he is loosing weight is also a big concern. I'm just wondering if maybe his body is just starting to breakdown even more. Its only been a couple months since he started loosing weight. He eats everyday but not like he should or like he did a couple years ago. I just wish I knew how long he would live if we do nothing. When he was diagnosed the vet wanted us to take him for the operation the next day. I wish they would have told us how long they expected him to live. Its almost as if they were not willing to give us much info on his disorder because we went against their wishes of getting the surgery. I have alote to think about tonight. Thanks again for all your advice and support.

Please consider seeing another vet then. The vet my mother went to did exactly the same...he was very rude when my mother refused the cemotherapy (or radiation, I can't remember) and surgery for her GR's "Prevasive stomach cancer". So my mother went to another vet, and it turns out that the dog has a benign cyst and was throwing up due to the arthritis medicine....no stomach cancer at all.
I'm not saying your dog doesn't have the condition he was diagnosed with, just that you don't have to settle for the limited options the first vet gave you. Get another opinion.
 














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