OT: School Lunch Issue

[dfarner]

As far as 'As a parent, it's your job...'- hmmm, I could think of some pretty words to say, but I bet as a parent- you have FAILED AT providing lunch for your kids at one point or another, Dfarner. Oopsie, aren't so perfect, are you? However, once again, we aren't discussing an elementary kid forgetting his lunch- we are discussing a kid ditching his lunch to take advantage of a system that's simply too easy to take advantage of.

You know what, I really take offense to that DisApril Fool. Actually, today is the last day of school for my kindergartner (my only child in school) and NO she has not ever not had a packed lunch or money in her account. Doesn't mean I'm perfect, but since you made that crass remark I wanted to clarify for you. It is obvious (like some of the other posters had mentioned) that you are frustrated that not everyone agrees with you. Have a good summer!

 

[DisneyAprilFool]

No, I'm frustrated with your comments.

Wow- you have a kindergardener and they've never forgotten their lunch? That's great. Go a few more years- it will happen sooner or later.

 

[tjmw2727]

I agree with the OP that if the school allows the children to charge lunch and then expects you to pay the bill they should notify you in advance and give you the option to agree or opt out. That is how its done here, in addition like pp's once you charge one lunch you can only get the cold sandwich, milk and no extras so there is no buying fun stuff on charge.

Where did the OP say her son was off the hook? Quite the opposite she said her son would be held accountable in at least a few posts. Her point if I understand correctly is that the school has some responsibility as well - she should have been notified if she was expected to pay a bill. Once prior to any charging and then every time the child charged.

My dd managed to run up a small bill. Her deal was purchasing the the extras; snapple, chips and other junk that IMHO shouldn't be part of the everyday lunch. In her defense they put it at the end just like the supermarket does for impuse buying, even adults get weak She did pay for the extras and now asks for extras ahead of time. The difference as I see it is that I knew she had the option and that I would be expected to pay for it.


TJ

 

[DisneyAprilFool]

I just wanted to say- I appreciate the responses from the individuals who actually took the time to read the whole OP and respond accordingly. This wasn't about whether or not my son was in trouble, this wasn't about whether or not he forgot his lunch, this was about whether the school should inform parents about this program- before charges were actually accrued.

I did not appreciate the 'better then thou' remarks. No one on this site is a PERFECT parent- and we all have our pet peeves. My pet peeve? Perfect parents

Anyways, a lot of interesting things have come up and I think I'm going to call the school and discuss them. The one thing that came up repeatedly was the 'cold lunch' aspect when children either don't have cash or forget their lunch. I think a cheese sandwich and fruit with milk is a perfect substitute for a lunch when children have no cash in their account or want to 'forget' about the lunch packed in their backpack Since I MAY have a few more years dealing with this school, I might as well suggest this idea.

Finally, as far as being upset because people disagreed with me- I did not see a single post that disagreed with me- people either ignored my actual question (is it right for a school to have this program without notifying the parents) or they answered in the affirmative, yes, the school should have notified the parents that this program exists and these are your options. Anyone would become frustrated having people repeatedly IGNORE the actual question in the OP.

Here's to the next school year May little problems like these be the only ones we face

 

[Princess Stitch]

Well, here in Canada (at least where I live) I've never seen an elementary school with a cafeteria or lunch program like this. We had to bring our lunch when I was in school... I think I would be upset at this whole "charging" thing too. It really is unfair to parents to let their children charge lunch without them knowing. If they forgot their lunch, the parents/guardian should be called for permission if a charging account is not set up. (if someone forgot their lunch in elementary, their parents/emergency contact were called to bring them something to eat)

In the end, it is not the school's responsibility to make sure the kids don't go hungry. They shouldn't just assume that every parent will be ok with their kid charging lunch. What if the kid had some sort of special dietary needs or allergies? Wouldn't that cause problems if they were allowed to buy whatever they want?

 

[Beth E. (NJ)]

Here is my take on the subject --

Our elementary school has the pin number policy. Each child gets a pin number when they enter the school. the parents put money in an account and the kids draw from it. We get a monthly menu so we know what's offered. They have snacks and the only problem I run into is that sometimes my kids buy snacks without letting me know.

When you run out of money you get aletter letting you know, but they don't stop feeding your child. If I don't go through her backpack I will sometimes end up owing them $10 to $12 before I remember to send in money.

My older one went to middle school this year. She has the same pin number. One day she comes home upset because the one of the cafeteria ladies took her lunch tray away from her. She told her she owed money so she could not eat. Another cafeteria worker gave her $2.50 so she could eat lunch. My daughter was so embarrassed that the first person caused a scene. I was upset because this was a completely different policy than the elementary school and I had no idea they would take the food away from the children.

I called the school and spoke to the vice principal. He told me that he is usually in the cafeteria during lunches and he usually gives money to any kids who have run out in their accounts. He said the kids are good about paying him back, but his point was that they really try to now allow the kids to not have lunch. I told him I was a bit shocked to find out that the school didn't have an over-charge system like the elementary or at least send a letter home to parents when the kids run out of money. He told me that they were working on sending a letter automatically. Now it's coming to the end of the year and the letters still don't go out!

There has only been 1 other time when she ran out of money and she borrowed from the vice principal. I just think that in middle school when they are trying to remember homework from 7 different teachers it is easy to forget to tell mom that you need lunch money.

 

[dhardawa]

However, once again, we aren't discussing an elementary kid forgetting his lunch- we are discussing a kid ditching his lunch to take advantage of a system that's simply too easy to take advantage of.

QUOTE]

That is just silly. Just because a system is easy to take advantage of doesn't mean it is right. At the store, all the items for sale are sitting right there on the shelf for the taking, but we don't blame the store for the shoplifters.

This issue is 100% your son's fault. He chose to disobey you (when you want him to eat a bag lunch and he goes against your wishes because he doesn't want to eat the bag lunch, that is pure disobedience), not once, but over and over again because he thought he wouldn't get caught.

As for the policy, the very same one is in place at my daughter's school and I have no issues with it at all. There was also no notice that the policy was in place. One day she came home with a bill and that was how I found out she had been eating breakfast at school. It was no big deal. I sent in about $40 and from there on, I knew how the cafeteria worked. I would much rather my child got to eat if I forgot to send her lunch money. She shouldn't be punished because I made a mistake. But, I put $300 in the account at the beginning of the year now and she is good to go. Not all parents can do that.

 

[Beth E. (NJ)]

One more thing --

I would be upset too if the school system here allowed children to charge to an account that the parent's hadn't activated.

Here I had to put money in first or the kids couldn't use it. Some families choose to not use the account and they send money in with the children on the days they are buying lunch.

And please remember DIS board policies which do not allow personal attacks or sarcasm again other posters.

 

[Elmo888]

I just wanted to say- I appreciate the responses from the individuals who actually took the time to read the whole OP and respond accordingly. This wasn't about whether or not my son was in trouble, this wasn't about whether or not he forgot his lunch, this was about whether the school should inform parents about this program- before charges were actually accrued.

I did not appreciate the 'better then thou' remarks. No one on this site is a PERFECT parent- and we all have our pet peeves. My pet peeve? Perfect parents

Anyways, a lot of interesting things have come up and I think I'm going to call the school and discuss them. The one thing that came up repeatedly was the 'cold lunch' aspect when children either don't have cash or forget their lunch. I think a cheese sandwich and fruit with milk is a perfect substitute for a lunch when children have no cash in their account or want to 'forget' about the lunch packed in their backpack Since I MAY have a few more years dealing with this school, I might as well suggest this idea.

Finally, as far as being upset because people disagreed with me- I did not see a single post that disagreed with me- people either ignored my actual question (is it right for a school to have this program without notifying the parents) or they answered in the affirmative, yes, the school should have notified the parents that this program exists and these are your options. Anyone would become frustrated having people repeatedly IGNORE the actual question in the OP.

Here's to the next school year May little problems like these be the only ones we face

I agree with you completely. Our elementary school does something similar, and it does bug the daylights out of me. On top of poor food choices and waste (I took my DD lunch one day, and another girl had bought 2 milks, neither of which she finished), it also teaches a 5 year old how to use credit!!! Children need to learn about cost and exchange money, not about how to use credit. Add that to your list when you talk to the school.

The first time my DD charged something, in first grade, she didn't understand how it worked. I think that they are too young to be expected to understand credit in kindergarten, first, second grades. She has a hard time understanding that the money machine doesn't just give money away. Kids need to see things.

I've had to go to the school twice to tell them to not allow my first grader to charge. The second time, my DD swore up and down and sideways that she didn't buy anything. The kids can easily tell the cafeteria staff the wrong name and charge on another student's account. One girl even told my DD that she did this to her.

In my opinion, this lunch charging is just something that is easy for the parents, but does nothing for the children. I can see why parents like the system, but I'm not one of them. I am happy to make my DD lunch every day so she has a healthy lunch. Children need to be taught to make healthy choices, and even 11 year olds are still learning.

Because you didn't know how the system worked, you didn't warn your DC not to use it/how it worked. This is similar to what happened to me. I knew that there was charging, but I thought that they only allowed students to charge if there was money in the student's account (debit system). I just didn't put any money in. I later found out that student's could charge without money in their account, and I have stressed to my DD a number of times that she is not to do this (as well as stressing to the cafeteria staff a number of times that she is not allowed to do this).

I just wanted to let you know that I understand how you feel!

ETA: I may be alone, but I was upset that the cafeteria staff gave my DD lunch when she forgot her lunch in kindergarten. I make her lunch, but it is her job to put it into her backpack. If she forgets it, it is natural consequences - no lunch. How will she learn if I am constantly saving her or the cafeteria is just giving her lunch?

 

[tjmw2727]

snip
In the end, it is not the school's responsibility to make sure the kids don't go hungry. They shouldn't just assume that every parent will be ok with their kid charging lunch. What if the kid had some sort of special dietary needs or allergies? Wouldn't that cause problems if they were allowed to buy whatever they want?

ITA - the OP wasn't upset at the policy but the lack of notifiation about the policy. Any time I am expected to pay a bill I have given my consent. I am glad our school only lets the kids charge the cold sandwich and milk.

FWIW - I have forgotten my dd's lunches more than a few times. Lets see my 12yo has been in school 7 years @ 180 days a year so that's 1,260 lunches and for 5 of those years my 10yo has been in school so that's another 900. I do remember most of the time

The good thing is that after a few cold sandwiches suddenly they remember their own lunch or to give me the low funds slip

TJ

 

[Zoemakes5]

At the elementary level, the only "extra" the kids had the option to purchase was more milk, which was fine for us. The policy (and, I honestly don't know if I ever got it in writing?) was that they would allow kids to charge up to three lunches or up to $5.00 (whichever was more) then they got pb & butter (not even jelly) and milk. At the middle and high school level, they have meals and ala carte. If they have to charge something, they can only get the meal, nothing ala carte.
I think there's a balance. Between not allowing any charging (and the potential for kids to go hungry) and allowing it to add up to just about any amount (as OP has suggested was in place in her school district with DSS's $20 bill.) But, I guess if I had to create a policy that would eitehr (a) leave kids hungry or (b) have the potential for abuse, I'd prefer the potential for abuse. For most younger kids (and I think that covers most elementary), it's not the kids' fault they don't have money, it's the parents for not sending it (for whatever reason), and I'd hate for them to not eat and face the embarrasment of the situation. For children who are abusing the system, I'd imagine a single $20 instance (and stern talking to) like OP should be enough to reinforce it's not allowed, or for the child that was really confused, clarity would be great. I've learned just about any system is subject to abuse, no matter how you try to work it, so I look into the balancing that is being done.
I've heard horror stories, especially, in todays age of shared parenting arrangements, where dad thought mom did it and vice versa.

 

[MSSANDRA]

You know an issue that has not really been discussed and may be the root of this whole thing is simple miscommunication. My guess is that there was at some point information on the lunch policy sent home. Now I am not perfect nor is my son and I am know we have missed acting on information that was sent home. I also know that the school is not perfect. My child could have gotten missed in receiving that piece of paper. Just a mistake. I am a preschool director and send home mutipal notes for every event. Two parents showed up without lunch today on our end of year picnic. Now i do not know what happend to the note. Was it my mistake or the teacher's or the parent?
It was miscommunication at some level.

 

[DisneyAprilFool]

Eh, the cafeteria lady said that there's nothing in writing on it- it's not in the handbook and like I said, with two kids in the same school, it is not easy to miss a paper on something like this. I could go up her chain of command- but the office just refers you to her when you have questions about the cafeteria.

All I want is either a blurb in the handbook OR something sent home at the beginning of the year explaining the program and the 'opt out' option. Since you are automatically opted IN, you should know that you need to opt out if you don't want to participate.

 

[crzy4dzny07]

FIRST- Parents should be notified about this system when they enroll their kids in the school and there should be a blurb about it in the parent handbook.

SECOND- Parents should opt IN to the charging system, not automatically be enrolled into it.

I agree with point number one...I think parents should know about this charging system. I think because the way a school cafeteria works, I don't think you can make parents opt into and out of the system though. Too many parents wouldn't send home paperwork saying they would opt in, and I don't think schools can let a child go without eating. I know when DH brings his students on field trips, they have to make sure every child has a lunch. Sometimes that means getting an extra sack lunch or two from the cafeteria that children haven't yet paid for.

BUT...I do agree parents should be notified this is the way things work. I think parents should be asked to sign a paper upon registering their child to school notifying them how this system works. I think parents should be contacted at a $10 point, or if they were to have a paper saying they wish to be notified after the end of the first week that a child buys ANY food. It's ridiculous that you can have $20 on the account.

I like the idea one district had of electronic cards that were accessible online. If that were at all schools, parents could be notified by email when their child's balance reached a set point (whether it is $5 or $15) . The high schools here are going electronic, where parents can look up a child's homework, grades, assignments, project due dates, attendance etc, etc. It doesn't seem that hard to make elementary and middle schools the same regarding cafeteria accounts. You can get prepaid spending cards for kids and track them online, schools should be able to do the same if they have electronic cards to scan for student's accounts (they do this in college dorms, too, but you can't track those online yet, either).

I like the fact one district even lists what the children eats. My son tends to lean towards the heavier side, and it's a constant battle on my part not to let him become overweight like me. I don't want him to be able to buy unhealthy food at school on a credit system without me monitering his food. Heck, we have enough trouble with credit cards, too, why start our kids out with this trouble early, too? Letting them have unlimited credit without notifying parents until it reaches xx amount is just not smart.

As the system is set up at Pru's son's school, a child can become overweight (since we know school lunches still aren't great) with a huge "credit card" balance by the time he finishes 5th grade. That's a sad thing.

 

[tjmw2727]

Eh, the cafeteria lady said that there's nothing in writing on it- it's not in the handbook and like I said, with two kids in the same school, it is not easy to miss a paper on something like this. I could go up her chain of command- but the office just refers you to her when you have questions about the cafeteria.

All I want is either a blurb in the handbook OR something sent home at the beginning of the year explaining the program and the 'opt out' option. Since you are automatically opted IN, you should know that you need to opt out if you don't want to participate.

Seems backwards - I would think you should have to opt in not out. At least you found out you didn't miss a memo
TJ

 

[keliblue]

I agree 100% with the OP all parents should be notified and be able to decide for themselves if a child (I don't care if they are 5 or 15) should be able to charge . I would be livid if I received a bill from the school telling me my kid has been eating Pizza everyday without my approval. . We are talking children making decisions that might not be wise.. hello !! that is why we are their parents.. to help them make good choices.

 

[badblackpug]

I think I understand what the OP is saying. She IS angry with her son for his dishonesty, but it is rather ridiculous that the school let the bill run up to $20 before they notified her. I think $5 should be about the max to charge before the parent is notified. Our school allows the child to charge a lunch if they have forgotten theirs. I don't think I'd allow him to "go hungry" but I would definitely let him work off the price, especially since he threw away perfectly good (and expensive) food.

 

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

I'm with the OP on this one. The school should def. notify the parents that this is an option.

 

[DisneyAprilFool]

Talked to the Principal today- he said they have had issues all year with this system and that next year, they'll send out an 'opt out' letter- which isn't as good as an 'opt-in' letter, but better then nothing! Plus, it will explain the system and the how things are charged. He also said that the charges shouldn't have made it to $20, but they changed cafeteria ladies mid-year and the bill probably slipped through the cracks.

Plus, my darling son gets to spend the next two weeks helping the cafeteria ladies clean up instead of having recess. Mean, perhaps- but necessary.

 

[Davidsmommy]

My son just got a note home that his account was low (40 cents left). First of the year I send a check for $50, then halfway through another check. Their account follows them through graduation, so it isn't like I will "lose" the money if he doesn't use it. He buys lunch maybe 2 - 3 times per week on average (really depends - some weeks only once, some weeks 4 days). There are certain things he likes and other things he won't touch. Although, he can always get a sandwich or noodles, so if I am in a hurry and don't get a lunch made, I tell him to buy.

Anyway, the note said that he wouldn't be allowed to buy ice cream until he had money in his account. So, I guess they allow them to charge if they don't have money in the account, but they can't get ice cream (we did have to send a note in saying it was ok to have ice cream - but since he only buys about half the time, I figured it was ok).

What I think is annoying about our system is there isn't anyway to be proactive. They don't let you know the balance until it is low. If it was computerized where I could see how much he had left, I could send in more money. It just seems weird that they don't contact us until he is out of money. Which is why I send a larger amount at one time.