OT - Nonfundraiser at DS school

[stm61]

I don't have a problem with the PTA trying to raise money by selling various things. The kids are not asked to sell, the parents are, and they can choose not to participate for whatever reason, there are no required minimums. What I do have a problem with is rewarding the children of the highest selling parents in front of the entire school. One of the elementary schools (gr k thru 4) had a magician do a show today. Before the show a list of names was read over the PA, those children were announced as the highest sellers and asked to come to the gym early. When the rest of the school arrived, those kids were sitting directly in front of the stage. They were each wearing a special tag, and there was about 8 of those kids who were further honored as VIP's. The principal and PTA president made a big deal of the special kids and told how great they were for all the orders they brought in. During the show the magician picked kids to come up and assist him. He was allowed to ONLY choose kids with the special tags. Any balloon animals or other little things made during the show were given to ONLY those special tag kids. After the show was ended, the VIP kids were brought up on stage and it was announced that they would have a special show with the magician, just for them, and that they would be allowed to do something with the birds he had used during the show.
I guess my issue is the way this was done. The kids did nothing to be honored this way, the parents did all the selling. Many of the families in the school simply are not in a position to sell fundraisers. Now we have kids asking why they couldn't get a special tag or stay for the special show. What do we tell them, your family can't afford to buy all that stuff? Or your parents can't take the book to the mill, they don't work in a big office building in the city so they can't hit up all their coworkers? Sorry, your grandparents can't afford to buy all that stuff either? Maybe if there had been a private show or something for the winning kids, it wouldn't have bugged me so much. I just didn't like the way these kids were singled out for something they didn't do, in front of all the other kids, who also had nothing to do with their parents decision to sell or not sell.

 

[lovebuzz]

If it makes you feel better our school asks for a $100 donation per kid. They have to raise $85,000 a year to pay for a science, spanish, and computer lab teacher. We did donate our money and we still have to sell gift wrap and all of the other stuff. One thing is that my husbands job will match our donation.
i'm glad that my children have access to these things and I'm willing to pay for them but writing that check for $200 did hurt.

 

[ksumn1]

My DD's school did something similar. They had a BMX show last year, and only kids who sold 20 items or more were able to attend, the other kids had to stay in class. I had sold enough (just to me, my Dm, MIL, etc) for her to go, but with school and work I didn't have time to participate this year. Not to mention that I really found nothing in the catalogs I liked...not even the wroapping paper, which I usually get. So now both DD's are a little upset, because they won't get to go to the Shrek party. We just sat them down and told them that I can only do so much, and that we would have our own Shrek party. Watch the DVD's, have punch and cookies and I didn't have to buy a thing. Our "fall festival" is Saturday, and I have to man booths for each class, as well as help decorate the gym and set up for BINGO in the cafeteria, so I consider that my "main" contribution.

 

[wiggles02]

A similar situation happened to my DS yesterday. He came home crying because some of the kids in his class got to go to a pumpkin painting party, because they sold stuff for the fundraiser. I got the packet back in September, but decided that I didn't need another magazine or any of the other stuff in the catalog, nor did I want to ask his grandparents to buy stuff. I'm a little upset that they pulled these kids out of class during school time and punished the kids who didnt sell anything (or that couldn't afford to). It is very upsetting to the kids who are left out, no matter what the reason.

 

[barkley]

i get realy ticked off at these fundraising things where the school throws some kind of event to celebrate-if they are so freaking tight on money why are they considering throwing more money away for these?! i know, for some kids it's the incentive to get them to sell more, but i still think it's a horrendous waste.

i also hate that the schools receive so little a percentage of the cost of the items they sell. we used to live by one of the most popular companies for schools to use for fundraising in the western u.s. to give you an idea of the mark-ups these places do, they had a yearly 'open to the public' sale in november and would sell off all the fall and winter items. those rolls of wrapping paper that went for $8 or $10 or $12 in the flyers-they were selling those for 50 cents a peice. the $45 cookie jars- $5. the tubs of cookie dough (still dated out close to a year) $2 it shows how much of a profit the companies make with young children as free labor

i guess i just have to say-be thankful your public schools can't mandate these 'contributions'. it's soooooooooooo common in private ones (ours is the rare exception that prohibits these). my kids went to one where the tuition was insanely higher than the regional norm-but on top of that each family HAD to contribute $250 PLUS 'volunteer' for 10 hours per child per year. now the school 'in consideration' of employed parents allowing you to buy off your time-but they put the cost at $15 per hour, so you were looking at another $150 per child it was like 'just be honest and increase tuition if needed but don't gouge us or guilt us out for these funds'. oh-and that former school-it also did at least one dozen major or minor fundraisers per year

i have to ask-how many of your schools account to you about how these funds are being spent? i know some information is given out at pto meetings-but how often does the pto or the school do a line by line accounting of what was raised, how much of that the school received, how much of that was spent on the 'celebration'-and what the resulting funds actualy went to. i think it might be interesting to see those details.

 

[fourfoxesinpa]

My humble opinion...

I already give each year. MANY THOUSANDS of dollars in school taxes. If there are necessities that aren't being covered, the school board needs to step up to the plate and reevaluate the budget. Maybe some tightening can be done, some programs reevaluated or maybe it's time to (gulp) look at taxes from the entire public (remember...it IS a public school and the education of our children is the responsibility of and benefit to the entire public - not just the families who currently have students attending those public schools). It's not the PTO's responsibility to ensure the teachers have everything they need to adequately teach our kids. PTO is for extras that the kids could do without if needed.

Stepping down from my soapbox now...

 

[Vacation Lover]

i get realy ticked off at these fundraising things where the school throws some kind of event to celebrate-if they are so freaking tight on money why are they considering throwing more money away for these?! i know, for some kids it's the incentive to get them to sell more, but i still think it's a horrendous waste.

i also hate that the schools receive so little a percentage of the cost of the items they sell. we used to live by one of the most popular companies for schools to use for fundraising in the western u.s. to give you an idea of the mark-ups these places do, they had a yearly 'open to the public' sale in november and would sell off all the fall and winter items. those rolls of wrapping paper that went for $8 or $10 or $12 in the flyers-they were selling those for 50 cents a peice. the $45 cookie jars- $5. the tubs of cookie dough (still dated out close to a year) $2 it shows how much of a profit the companies make with young children as free labor

i guess i just have to say-be thankful your public schools can't mandate these 'contributions'. it's soooooooooooo common in private ones (ours is the rare exception that prohibits these). my kids went to one where the tuition was insanely higher than the regional norm-but on top of that each family HAD to contribute $250 PLUS 'volunteer' for 10 hours per child per year. now the school 'in consideration' of employed parents allowing you to buy off your time-but they put the cost at $15 per hour, so you were looking at another $150 per child it was like 'just be honest and increase tuition if needed but don't gouge us or guilt us out for these funds'. oh-and that former school-it also did at least one dozen major or minor fundraisers per year

i have to ask-how many of your schools account to you about how these funds are being spent? i know some information is given out at pto meetings-but how often does the pto or the school do a line by line accounting of what was raised, how much of that the school received, how much of that was spent on the 'celebration'-and what the resulting funds actualy went to. i think it might be interesting to see those details.

At our school the company that sells the fundraising products pays for the party. They own a bunch of inflatables and bring them in on the day of the big party.

It's definitely hard when some of the kids can't participate for not selling enough. We've done it both ways at our school, and the year that we offered the party to the entire school (not just the high sellers), we made much less money. There just wasn't an incentive for the kids to sell and we didn't make nearly as much.

I think this is why some schools are moving to the donation, but as I stated in a previous post, the donations would have to be high to compensate for the loss of friends/family/coworkers purchasing items.

Our school typically has something going almost every month--the big fundraiser in the fall and a few smaller ones throughout the year. I think you should participate in the things that interest you and donate what you can. If you can't donate financially, donate your time--in the classroom, after school, on the PTO or whatever.

 

[lilyv]

I always preferred the unfundraisers. It's 100% profit. I usually took the amount suggested, and divided it by # of months in the school calendar. Once I looked at it that way, the amount generally seemed very reasonable.

Unfortunately, that isn't the norm. It so annoyed me when the decision was made to sell candles/candy/cookie dough...you name it. Valuable class time was given to a fund raising guru who taught the kids how to "close the deal". Ugh.

My kids are grown and in grad school now...but I still buy from the children who are sent out to sell. I have a basic limit of around $6.00. If the item is more, I contribute my limit-I don't want or need a bucket of cookie dough, but hopefully my contribution will help the group's goals.

 

[Nancyg56]

Give what you are comfortable with. In my DGD's school there are fundraisers but PTO asks people to use a certain CC whenever possible. The amount that is donated to the school is very high and reduces the amount of fundraisers needed.

It is unfortunate that education budgets do not cover everything that is needed to enrich the school programs, but that is the sad truth. I would rather make a donation to the PTO than buy a bunch of stuff that I do not want and know that 100% of the money goes to the PTO for school programs.

 

[EthansMom]

Just ignore the $$$$ figure that they are requesting and send an amount with which you are comfortable.

Our PTO pays for all of the enrichment programs, school supplies, and stipends for each teacher. We're also in the process of paying for maintenance on the school's playground, including new mulch for under the playset. Can you believe the school board won't even play for playground maintenance????

 

[Gillian]

Just ignore the $$$$ figure that they are requesting and send an amount with which you are comfortable.

Our PTO pays for all of the enrichment programs, school supplies, and stipends for each teacher. We're also in the process of paying for maintenance on the school's playground, including new mulch for under the playset. Can you believe the school board won't even play for playground maintenance????

My kids aren't in public school right now, but one of their teams uses a public school practice field and I was appalled at the condition of the playground!

I'm surprised they aren't worried about lawsuits. Playground injuries are very common, and if it's documented that they won't pay for maintenance and mulch at the very least, it would look bad for them.

$120 per family doesn't seem horrible, but I would also just pay what I felt comfortable with.

 

[Amy5000]

I don't have a problem with the PTA trying to raise money by selling various things. The kids are not asked to sell, the parents are, and they can choose not to participate for whatever reason, there are no required minimums. What I do have a problem with is rewarding the children of the highest selling parents in front of the entire school. One of the elementary schools (gr k thru 4) had a magician do a show today. Before the show a list of names was read over the PA, those children were announced as the highest sellers and asked to come to the gym early. When the rest of the school arrived, those kids were sitting directly in front of the stage. They were each wearing a special tag, and there was about 8 of those kids who were further honored as VIP's. The principal and PTA president made a big deal of the special kids and told how great they were for all the orders they brought in. During the show the magician picked kids to come up and assist him. He was allowed to ONLY choose kids with the special tags. Any balloon animals or other little things made during the show were given to ONLY those special tag kids. After the show was ended, the VIP kids were brought up on stage and it was announced that they would have a special show with the magician, just for them, and that they would be allowed to do something with the birds he had used during the show.
I guess my issue is the way this was done. The kids did nothing to be honored this way, the parents did all the selling. Many of the families in the school simply are not in a position to sell fundraisers. Now we have kids asking why they couldn't get a special tag or stay for the special show. What do we tell them, your family can't afford to buy all that stuff? Or your parents can't take the book to the mill, they don't work in a big office building in the city so they can't hit up all their coworkers? Sorry, your grandparents can't afford to buy all that stuff either? Maybe if there had been a private show or something for the winning kids, it wouldn't have bugged me so much. I just didn't like the way these kids were singled out for something they didn't do, in front of all the other kids, who also had nothing to do with their parents decision to sell or not sell.

that's totally awful!! I totally agree that it's not really rewarding children for anything they have done. It's especially bad to do this publicly in a public school. Let's honor children of the parents who either have the $$ to participate or who have an office full of people or family that they can impose upon (and yes it's imposing upon) to purchase. If you want to reward people for selling it shouldn't be done in this manner...making other kids feel like second class students. It would have been better to just have a magic show for the big sellers. ick!

 

[CarlisleMom]

The amount may seem high but think about how much you would spend on buying things thru the year and the PTO would only get a percentage.

This is my DD first year in the school system. Our PTO is raising fund for a new playground (the District only give $3000 when they cost 60,000). They also give each teacher money toward classroom supplies, pay for 2 field trips that charge admission and one that does not (District bills PTO for busing - high due to gas prices), all kids get folders, classroom magazines(scholastic,time, etc ) school play/musical, etc.

Most parents do not realize what PTO's pay for. Everyone assumes that the District is paying for everything. I only know from attending meeting. It pays to get involved.

 

[graygables]

My older 2 went to PS, the younger 2 are homeschooled. With the older ones, I sent a letter in at the beginning of the year excusing them from anything to do with fundraisers. I was to be notified of the "assembly" and any subsequent gatherings. I went to the school, picked them up, and took them somewhere fun (lunch, mall, etc). They never had to endure the "Billy won the limo ride b/c he sold the most wrapping paper" garbage.

I pay taxes. The school misused those taxes for quite some time and made some really BIG mistakes, so now when they whine for more money, the voters turn them down. They threatened to cut busing. It didn't work and it was cut. They threatened to cut sports. It didn't work and it was cut. Now parents drive their own kids who live outside the state-mandated busing minimums and parents whose kids are involved in sports pay for their kids to play (AS IT SHOULD BE). The world hasn't come to an end and the school district still achieves its "excellent" rating on the state tests. It's hard to argue that you need more money, when you obviously can make do with less.

If they need more money, they need to think creatively to come up with ways to trim the budget. You are entitled to a FREE and public education. Think of how much they wasted on time, materials, and stamps sending that letter home....

 

[famofsix]

My humble opinion...

I already give each year. MANY THOUSANDS of dollars in school taxes. If there are necessities that aren't being covered, the school board needs to step up to the plate and reevaluate the budget. Maybe some tightening can be done, some programs reevaluated or maybe it's time to (gulp) look at taxes from the entire public (remember...it IS a public school and the education of our children is the responsibility of and benefit to the entire public - not just the families who currently have students attending those public schools). It's not the PTO's responsibility to ensure the teachers have everything they need to adequately teach our kids. PTO is for extras that the kids could do without if needed.

Stepping down from my soapbox now...

YUP

 

[my3disneygirls]

We live in a higher income school district, so we get less government funding. But our schools are loosing enrichment rooms and all sorts of other things, when other less affluent districts have more money than they know what to do with. They have pools, new tracks and fields, lighting and all sorts of other extras. The kicker is that the test grades in these districts have not gone up at all. There really should be a way to distribute the money more fairly.

I have three children in three different schools if I have to pay 125.00 times three, there is no way I could afford that. I don't even know if I could swing the 125.00. With all the money spent on back to school stuff, then laying out the cash for out for the big thanksgiving meal and then Christmas gifts. This is not a time of year, we have a lot of extra money laying around.

Just give what you can and don't give it a second thought.

 

[delilah]

I know how you feel about fundraisers. My son goes to a small Catholic school. The school/parish estimates that it costs about $5000 per child to attend the school. Not all is covered by tuition, which is about $3800 for the first child, but a large percentage of the Sunday collection also goes to school operations. Not to complain, but, already, including the tuition I pay and the percentage of Sunday collection that goes toward the school, I contribute more than the amount of my son's educational expense. Then there is the time commitment. There are innumerable fundraisers--so far this year, we have sold Entertainment books, pies, trash bags, Boo Grams (which are Tootsie-roll pops dressed up like a ghost that kids buy for their friends). The Boo Gram bit is what gets me. My son is in fourth grade, and they take an overnight trip to a historical village. The cost is about $50 per person. So far, I have donated two 100 Tootsie pop boxes, several boxes of Kleenex, four rolls of orange and black ribbon, and two 1 lb skeins of orange/black yarn. Last year, they sold 800 Boo Grams, and I probably donated enough stuff to make 200. There are 24 kids in the class. They wanted the Boo Grams assembled by today, and since we went to WDW for fall break, I couldn't do it. When I got home from vacation about 11pm last night, there was a message from the room mother that she wants to know if I want to help with a 4th grade lunch to raise funds for the trip. Now, lets back up. The materials I donated for the Boo Grams cost about $25, which is about half what it costs for my son to attend. The materials I donated should generate about $100 in profit, which should readily pay for my son and one other person to attend. I am a doctor, and I need to work next Monday. It is true she left the message last Thursday, but I was in Florida. I might consider it if I could deduct the value of my time to take off a few hours in the middle of the day at my usual hourly rate to cook lunch, but, I can't. So, I think I am ignoring that message. At some point, I'd almost prefer to give the a check for $50. Now, my question in all this--where are the other 22 moms?

 

[momtoBrandon&Jacob]

A similar situation happened to my DS yesterday. He came home crying because some of the kids in his class got to go to a pumpkin painting party, because they sold stuff for the fundraiser. I got the packet back in September, but decided that I didn't need another magazine or any of the other stuff in the catalog, nor did I want to ask his grandparents to buy stuff. I'm a little upset that they pulled these kids out of class during school time and punished the kids who didnt sell anything (or that couldn't afford to). It is very upsetting to the kids who are left out, no matter what the reason.

Now that would really get me mad and I would go directly to the principal. My Ds6 school sent home a fundraiser and you should've seen the junk that was in it. Mostly ugly Xmas decorations (we're Jewish), and some candy. It was a disgrace.

 

[Momto3Disneyprinces]

This is my biggest problem with this....When I sent an e-mail to the PTO letting them know that I thought the amount was high, and what about all of the other things we could do that would not be time consuming to run, but would be profitable....(read-a-thon, Shaw's Receipts Rewards, Chuck E Cheese. At least these would be things we are already doing, we are just going to turn them into funds for school..) I was sent a reply listing all of the reasons why they choose to do this instead of the big Spring Fundraiser. (The core "volunteers" are not able to undertake a another project this big. The core "volunteers" are all of the martyrs who volunteer, but only do so when they can be sure everyone else will know it's them!) They said that the Spring Fundraiser usually brings in @20-30K, which is the majority of the PTO operating budget (which is 30-40K). So they are trying to tap into the families that don't "help out"....I know that there are a lot of families that would help out, if someone actually got back to them, but they tend to have their favorites. (I know, it's like we are back in High School... )

But, what will wind up happening is they are not going to get the money they hoped for, and we will wind up hawking some sort of junk anyway. So why not just get more creative now.....

 

[janets]

I hate fundraisers. Most of the time, I refuse to participate. I work in a decent sized office and there is always some fundraising brochure in the kitchen or in the lunchroom. No pressure, but we're all friends and we try to help each other out. But since I hate the stuff in the fundraising books, I can't in good conscience sell it to my family and friends.

Our school doesn't have a donation amount. But we (the parents) pay for the trips that have a cost.

Recently, we had neighbor kids ring our bell selling stuff for boy scouts and girl scouts. One was the cousin of the little girl 2 houses down (scouts). Then the little boy next door came calling (actually his father gave my dh the catalog) with a fundraiser (also scouts). Then, this same next door neighbor's daughter came calling for HER fundraiser (girl scouts). Personally, I think it was a bit nervy having both of your kids hit up my house for stuff that I don't want, and of course, there was no way to turn them down. Since all of the kids go to the same school, no one will solicit for those fundraisers. But I have enough expenses to pay for and really don't want another bucket of cookie dough, or nuts, or popcorn in my house.

I also think that there isn't a good enough accounting of where these funds are going.