OT-No kindergarten this year

[DisneyFanatik]

Here in NYC the cutoff date is December 31st. My DS was born on November 30th (1998). I went back and forth with what I was going to do - let him start kindergarten when he was legally able to or hold him back a year. EVERYONE, including his Pre-K teachers and family friends who are teachers and principals strongly advised me to NOT hold him back. They said that in his case there would be no benefit of holding him back. His Pre-K teachers repeatedly told me how he could hold his own with the work better than some of the older kids so I let him go. Thank goodness I did. He is now at the top of his 3rd grade class. Yes, he is the youngest in his class (there are a few December birthdays is the other 3rd grade class) and he does better than the kids that are almost a year older than him. I guess what I am trying to say is that it truly does depend on the kid. My DS would have been bored if I had held him back. He does sometimes wish that he wasn't the "baby" of the class, but that is just because he thinks that it is "cool" to be older. I tell him that there will come a day when he won't think that being older is so "cool" anymore!

 

[Camping Griswalds]

I can understand your points as a public school teacher, but that last sentence actually made me say, "WOW!" out loud. Like I've said before in numerous threads, my child will not be attending school so it's really all moot for us, but I do still have opinions about public schooling!
As for the "not really reading" thing...I have never known a parent to claim a child could read when he/she really could not, but then again, I don't tend to hang around a lot of "status-seeker" parents who exaggerate to make themselves or their children look better. Also, almost everyone I know is not only literate but well-educated, and would know the difference AND realize that everyone else in our social circle could tell the difference, as well. No point lying about it! I would imagine you HAVE seen a few of those during your time as a teacher, which is really sad for the children involved. As a final note, my reading dilemma was worked out in a satisfactory fashion; while the other kids practiced phonics or what have you, I was sent to read to another classroom of kids my own age, for their storytime!

What is funny to me about this is that in every level of education or outside activety, there are parents whom stated their child is well above the ability that they actually are. It seems to me that most parents over exagerate their childrens abilities..."My Johnny is the fastest runner, My Sally is the best singer, Tyler could read at 3, Billy hit four home runs in t-ball" etc etc etc etc. Whether it is love blinded glasses or wishful thinking on a parents part, it seems very commonplace to have parents over inflate their childs abilities and strengths. I've stated it before, even here on this post, MY children are average. How often do you truly hear that anymore? There are all of these gifted and talented educational programs, drama programs. Traveling sports teams. Let me tell you, I have heard many a parent state, "We are banking on Jimmy gettting a scholarship for soccer" or whatever sport my kids are playing in. It has nothing to do with the parents level of education, or sports prowess them selves, or even that their child is always the best on the academic or sports average. Everone (read parents here) seems to think their children are gifted. In my opinion what the poster was trying to discretely say is that sometimes it appears to the parents that their kids are reading, when they really are just memorizing books that have repetitive words Not all children, just some. So in reality, teachers whom have been exposed to this continuosly, have a better, not involved emotionally, opinion.

 

[dogluva]

Wow - this is a very interesting post to me. I haven't read all of the posts - but most of them are parents upset that they can't send their kids to Kindergarten earlier - that is so NOT the norm where I am - so I am totally unused to hearing this side.

Here in NY...cutoff is still 12/1, dd is 10/21 (will be 4 this year). 90% of the people I speak to here with children with Fall birthdays are holding their kids back. I tend to get into debates on this topic - it upsets me when people have no true reason for not sending them other than they 'don't want them to be the youngest in the class' - where does that end? If people with summer and spring b-days start holding them back just for the same reason - we'll end up with everyone in the class getting older and older...(note - if there is a real reason with a delay in some area that the parents have sought professional help with - I do not disagree with waiting - it's the ones that just don't want them to go for no other reason other than their birthday that I take issue with). And, since I plan to send dd ON TIME (not early - those who are 4 up until 12/1 here are SUPPOSED to enter Kindergarten) - it is putting her at a disadvantage to have so many older kids in her class. These kids who will be 6 have up to a year and a half more time and more learning than she does. Can you imagine the problem the poor teacher has? IMO - people who CHOOSE to hold their kids back should not be upset when a teacher teaches to a 4 and 5year old level - that's what the curriculum is setup to do.

I have a friend who opted to hold back her very bright and social boy with an Oct b-day and then had the nerve to tell the K teacher that she was concerned he wasn't going to be challenged to 'read at his level' - ummm- okay - you could have him in 1st grade now - maybe that's what his level should have been. It's the parent's fault - my 4 year old should not suffer for it. The teacher should focus on the kids who are at the level the material was made for - and I assume many of the 6 year olds will already know most of it.

Anyway - very refreshing to hear people who want to send their kids earlier.

BTW- I've heard (although haven't seen written proof) that dd going to Kindergarten as a 4 year old in '08 will be the last year before NY officially changes the cutoff to 9/1. So she will be the last of the 4 year olds around here.

Thank you, this is my feelings. My son was the youngest in his class because I sent him on time. The cut-off was 12/31, his birthday is 11/1. I didn't even realize people held their fall birthday kids back. So, I find out that this is the norm and he is in school with children 14, 15 months older than him. I didn't find this fair to him. Yes, I thought he would be one of the young ones but only by a few months, not a whole year or more.

By the way, he turned 18 in Nov. and is starting his second year of college. He did great. Not all late birthday boys need to "mature". I am grateful I was ignorant, he would have been by far the tallest in his class.

I am also finding out people want their kids to do better at sports, they have that extra year to grow. This is wrong. I am glad my son is out of high school, some of his classmates are pushing 20 years old. Sorry, they do not belong in High school anymore.

Where do you draw the line? They change the cut off to June and then the May kids stay back. Sheesh, why don't we just start them all when the parents feel they are ready. It bothers me that my April son is the second to youngest kid in his first grade class because all the summer and late spring babies were held back. He should really be in the middle.

 

[Karel]

Okay, this thread is really making me wonder...
I was "only" 18 years and 5 days old when I went off to college. I got straight As my first quarter, and didn't do anything stupid or self-destructive, either. I guess the way I see it, if I do my job right, I won't have to worry so much about my son going off to college and doing the right thing. People like to see that as naivete, but I can assure you I know firsthand how possible it is. I guess I just give older teens more credit, assuming they had appropriate guidance in their formative years.

LOL. Spoken by the mother of a two year old. You've got a long way to go and you don't know what you are in store for...

 

[shelly3girls]

As for the "not really reading" thing...I have never known a parent to claim a child could read when he/she really could not, but then again, I don't tend to hang around a lot of "status-seeker" parents who exaggerate to make themselves or their children look better. Also, almost everyone I know is not only literate but well-educated, and would know the difference AND realize that everyone else in our social circle could tell the difference, as well. No point lying about it! I would imagine you HAVE seen a few of those during your time as a teacher, which is really sad for the children involved. As a final note, my reading dilemma was worked out in a satisfactory fashion; while the other kids practiced phonics or what have you, I was sent to read to another classroom of kids my own age, for their storytime!

It is great that you do not face this but around here it is common place even with very highly educated parents. Many who are not lying have pushed their kids including summers packed full of reading camp and extra work. Not that I am opposed to reading, we read with our children all of the time. I just do not understand the need to push kids to be so far beyond grade level that they are bored in school.

Between the parents who push and those who lie I was convinced that DD#1 was the dumbest/slowest kid in her class. Boy were we shocked when the teacher told us she was one of the best readers in the class and the top in math. If I had believed all of the other parents I would have had her tutored! Fortunately I know enough to let DD#2 learn at her own pace.

 

[shelly3girls]

What is funny to me about this is that in every level of education or outside activety, there are parents whom stated their child is well above the ability that they actually are. It seems to me that most parents over exagerate their childrens abilities..."My Johnny is the fastest runner, My Sally is the best singer, Tyler could read at 3, Billy hit four home runs in t-ball" etc etc etc etc. Whether it is love blinded glasses or wishful thinking on a parents part, it seems very commonplace to have parents over inflate their childs abilities and strengths. I've stated it before, even here on this post, MY children are average. How often do you truly hear that anymore? There are all of these gifted and talented educational programs, drama programs. Traveling sports teams. Let me tell you, I have heard many a parent state, "We are banking on Jimmy gettting a scholarship for soccer" or whatever sport my kids are playing in. It has nothing to do with the parents level of education, or sports prowess them selves, or even that their child is always the best on the academic or sports average. Everone (read parents here) seems to think their children are gifted. In my opinion what the poster was trying to discretely say is that sometimes it appears to the parents that their kids are reading, when they really are just memorizing books that have repetitive words Not all children, just some. So in reality, teachers whom have been exposed to this continuosly, have a better, not involved emotionally, opinion.

Well said, much better than I did above. Many of these kids have a very large number of words memorized but when faced with new words cannot read them. This is not reading. Also I see many kids who can read but have no reading comprehension at all. This is a disservice to these kids.

 

[bluesaturn]

LOL. Spoken by the mother of a two year old. You've got a long way to go and you don't know what you are in store for...

That was pretty rude. She wasn't claiming to know it all. And mostly talking about her own experiences anyway. It is logical to assume that the majority of the time the way you raise your child is correalted to how they will turn out (i know not every single time, i know). Not all college students are out running amuck, most aren't. And those that are usually do so all four years of college, and even if they enter at 19 instead of 18.

 

[bethbuchall]

Wow - this is a very interesting post to me. I haven't read all of the posts - but most of them are parents upset that they can't send their kids to Kindergarten earlier - that is so NOT the norm where I am - so I am totally unused to hearing this side.

Here in NY...cutoff is still 12/1, dd is 10/21 (will be 4 this year). 90% of the people I speak to here with children with Fall birthdays are holding their kids back. I tend to get into debates on this topic - it upsets me when people have no true reason for not sending them other than they 'don't want them to be the youngest in the class' - where does that end? If people with summer and spring b-days start holding them back just for the same reason - we'll end up with everyone in the class getting older and older...(note - if there is a real reason with a delay in some area that the parents have sought professional help with - I do not disagree with waiting - it's the ones that just don't want them to go for no other reason other than their birthday that I take issue with). And, since I plan to send dd ON TIME (not early - those who are 4 up until 12/1 here are SUPPOSED to enter Kindergarten) - it is putting her at a disadvantage to have so many older kids in her class. These kids who will be 6 have up to a year and a half more time and more learning than she does. Can you imagine the problem the poor teacher has? IMO - people who CHOOSE to hold their kids back should not be upset when a teacher teaches to a 4 and 5year old level - that's what the curriculum is setup to do.

I have a friend who opted to hold back her very bright and social boy with an Oct b-day and then had the nerve to tell the K teacher that she was concerned he wasn't going to be challenged to 'read at his level' - ummm- okay - you could have him in 1st grade now - maybe that's what his level should have been. It's the parent's fault - my 4 year old should not suffer for it. The teacher should focus on the kids who are at the level the material was made for - and I assume many of the 6 year olds will already know most of it.

Anyway - very refreshing to hear people who want to send their kids earlier.

BTW- I've heard (although haven't seen written proof) that dd going to Kindergarten as a 4 year old in '08 will be the last year before NY officially changes the cutoff to 9/1. So she will be the last of the 4 year olds around here.

I have heard that the cut-off date is changing to 9/1 and that every child who is 5 by that date must be enrolled in kindergarten, though it will be possible with the correct documentation to have a child that turns 5 by 9/1 in a certified pre-k program. Currently, the law states that any child who is 6 by 12/1 must be enrolled in school. While this will help even out the ages within a classroom, I feel it is taking one more decision away from the parents.

My nephew has a November birthday, and his parents put him into school when he was 4. He is now 16, and the decision has worked out very well for him both academically and socially. Another friend has a son who just graduated from college who started school 2 months before his 5 birthday. He is heading into law school and has never had any academic, social, or athletic disadvantage throughout school.

On the other hand, I have a friend whose son was just not ready for kindergarten socially when he was 5 years, 1 month old. She had him in an early K program for that year, and he entered kindergarten at 6 years, 1 month. Again, he is excelling academically and socially in school. He most likely would have been miserable had he started K "on time", and he may still be feeling the social reprecussions.

While I realize that not all parents are capable of making this decision, I don't think that those who are should have that taken away from them.

 

[KariC]

That was pretty rude. She wasn't claiming to know it all. And mostly talking about her own experiences anyway. It is logical to assume that the majority of the time the way you raise your child is correalted to how they will turn out (i know not every single time, i know). Not all college students are out running amuck, most aren't. And those that are usually do so all four years of college, and even if they enter at 19 instead of 18.

Thank you for posting this! I actually came on the DIS this morning to post the same thing! Just because her own child is 2, doesn't negate her own experience, nor does it negate her opinion.

 

[Mkaz]

my bday is Aug 27 and I went!

Mine is August 27th too.

The hardest part for me was that I was soo little. I was 36 inches tall and weighed 35 pounds when I started kindergarten. Everything seemed huge to me. Trying to open doors was the worst. Anyway, good luck with getting your daughter into Kindergarten. If she doesn't get in, maybe it can be considered a blessing in disguise. I know that's probably not what either of you want to hear right now. I really wish we would have waited another year to send our dd. She has a July birthday, but she really wasn't mature enough. We asked them to retain her in first grade, but they wouldn't do it. They said that since she wasn't remedial, retention wouldn't be considered.

 

[akmom]

You know, I think I do have an issue with parents holding their kids out of kindergarten for no other reason than they don't want them to be the youngest. As a pp stated, when does it end? Someone has to be the youngest. I think it would be unfair for the kids who are 5 and enter kindergarten when they were supposed to if most kids were over a year older than them. I agree with waiting if you honestly feel your child isn't ready. But to keep them out because they will be youngest or you want them to do better in sports. I have heard of people in my town doing that and that is sad to me for all the kids involved. There is still a chance dd will get into kindergarten. It won't be at the same school as her brother though and that is sad to me.

 

[averysmom]

Our cutoff is Dec. 31st - my ds will be starting kindy in the fall and although he is a June baby I am very concerned for him. He has developmental issues and is basically functioning (speech(receptive and expressive), fine motor, visual memory, socially) at a year behind.

Our school division does not allow parents to hold their children back.

If I chose not to put him in kindy this year, next year he will be placed in grade one with his "age appropriate peers". It is part of our "no fail" policy.

And although they promise me that he will get extra help, I am a teacher in our division and I know how much our resourse programs have been cut so I know how much help that we will be offered. Because he has no "official daignosis" he doesn't qualify for funding.

He is on the waiting list for a private school - but he won't get in next year - so we are hoping for the year after.

My dd is on the other end of the spectrum - she has a January b-day so she will be almost 6 when she starts kindy.

And while she IS only 2 - she can do almost everything her brother can do at almost 5 now.

Also, being a middle school teacher, I know how hard it is on the girls who mature earlier than their peers. If she begins puberty at 10-11 like I did - she will mature in grade 5 and 6.

In New Zealand, children start school the week of their 5th brirthdays. And they don't go on to the next grade until they have mastered the curriculum - but they can move on within a school year.

It's a lot more work for the teacher children are working within their own ability - not age group. Doesn't it sound wonderful!

 

[macmahony]

I personally don't care who has an issue because I choose to hold all my girls a year, so they are not the youngest, a lot of factors fell into play. I believe the original poster stated her child MISSED the cutoff, and that was the problem, she wanted her to start kindy. I have an issue with parents pushing there children, if they miss the cutoff by law, well, then they miss the cutoff. You are right it has to end somewhere. I would much rather my daughters be kids an extra year, my oldest will start kindy this year, turning 6 right after school starts, and I know for a FACT she will not be the oldest! I am not in any rush to push my kids out the door to school, life happens to fast as it is.

 

[akmom]

I personally don't care who has an issue because I choose to hold all my girls a year, so they are not the youngest, a lot of factors fell into play. I believe the original poster stated her child MISSED the cutoff, and that was the problem, she wanted her to start kindy. I have an issue with parents pushing there children, if they miss the cutoff by law, well, then they miss the cutoff. You are right it has to end somewhere. I would much rather my daughters be kids an extra year, my oldest will start kindy this year, turning 6 right after school starts, and I know for a FACT she will not be the oldest! I am not in any rush to push my kids out the door to school, life happens to fast as it is.

I wasn't trying to offend you by saying I had issue. I just meant that the poster had brought an issue to hand that I hadn't really thought much about before. That being kids who should be in the middle age group now being the youngest. You stated a lot of factors went into making your decision. I believe you know your kids and made the best choice for them. Just as I know my DD. If she missed the cut-off by like a month I wouldn't be trying to get her in early. A lot of factors went into our decision to see if she can get in. If not, we're not going to be devasted. I'm not going to fight and fight to get her in. I simply explored our options. It's nice to see other points of view on this topic.

 

[WindyCityDisney]

It's nice to see other points of view on this topic.

I completely agree. Especially since in my case I don't know what will happen next year. I know what I "want" to have happen, given my DS' issues, but to some extent, only time will tell.

 

[teresajoy]

I myself am absolutely THRILLED that my youngest is a December baby. I get to keep her home with me for an extra couple of months!

I didn't read all the posts, and by the looks of the few I do see, I probably won't! But, if things don't work out the way you want them to, just make the most of the extra time you will have with your daughter.