OT - My sister's kids...

[northriver]

I think you were fine with your response. I might have looked at my sister and crying niece and said calmly, "you need a time out to calm down and think about what you did - you can never push someone into water, that was very dangerous", and lead her to the other side of the boat and sat her down. However, I'm guessing that the crying child knew what she did was very wrong once she saw what happened to your child, and was crying because she was sorry, not because she was in trouble, so you probably said enough and she learned her lesson even without further disipline.

My sister has always let me take care of her children, maybe that is unusual but geesh they are my family and I wouldn't hesitate to teach them right from wrong if the opportunity presents itself. It isn't like they were someone else's children - they don't live with me but IMO they are still my responsibility, kwim? My nephew always followed my rules too when I had him. He didn't complain and neither did his parents.

 

[peter1706]

you stated that she started crying hysterically after you told her never to do that again. I think at that point she realized she did something VERY wrong. You also stated your sister spent the rest of the boat ride back consoling her still crying daughter. I think you should have let your sister console her until she calmed down, a time out wouldn't have done anything, the kid was already punishing herself.

I see this a different way and i wonder if the OP and I have the same sister.

My sister's kids don't listen either, and when they are with my children or in my house I have no problem letting them know when they have done something wrong (usually her kids are hitting each other, pushing, jumping n furniture)
Many times when i scold her she screams and cries hysterically. And her mother consoles her, tells her it will be okay and says nothing about what the child actually did.
There is no discipline there.
It becomes a headache to be with them because she doesn't supervise them at all. Unfortunately it has forced us to cut down the amount of time we spend with them.

After she calmed down you could have explained to her all the reasons why she shouldn't push anyone off a boat(I'm sure she would have been more receptive to the lession and would never forget it. ) I think your sister was just reacting to the fact her daughter was hysterical at the time and would have reinforced what you told her after she calmed down. No flames please, but you can't teach anything to a screaming kid.

I've tried explaining to her kids why something is wrong but they ignore me and their grandmother. After all if their mother won't do anything to make them listen or behave (besides empty threats) why should they listen to anyone else?

 

[Zoemakes5]

However, I'm guessing that the crying child knew what she did was very wrong once she saw what happened to your child, and was crying because she was sorry, not because she was in trouble, so you probably said enough and she learned her lesson even without further disipline.

See, I read that differently. I have a couple of friends and acquaintences who parent the way I'm invisioning her sister to parent based on the discussion. Their children would break out in tears from the simple "scolding". You can tell the difference. And, the kids find it to be fairly effective...they don't get into trouble and they get lots of attention....so they continue in a pretty nasty cycle. I think it happens more with parents who don't deal well with conflict, as changing this cycle will result in some pretty strong power struggles and lots of conflict. Plus, it needs the parent to understand that their children aren't acting appropriately and they are contributing to it.


Maybe I'm reading it differently, but it sounded to me more like what my experiences were, not the "omg I can't believe I did that".

 

[PollyannaMom]

I don't think what you said to your niece was out of line at all. - When the whole family is together, my SIL and I have always agreed, and said to the kids, that we are interchangable, discipline-wise. They're used to listening to both us.

I do buy that she might have actually been crying about what she did, not about what you said to her at all. At 6, it's likely she realized right after "oh my gosh, she could have drowned" and was horified at that thought of having so much power (especially if she can't count on her parents to help her control it!)

So I feel bad for you that your outing was messed up, and I don't think you should feel guilty! It was not your fault.

 

[writersblock42]

As a person who is always looking at different cultures and family structures, I find this debate very interesting. I people watch frequently and yesterday we were riding on the bus with my DH and son and we were watching three women with three kids. My Dh and I had a debate about what kids belonged to what mother because you could not tell. All the mothers wiped the noses of all three kids (I actually think only two of the women were mother and the third was an aunt) and all three mothers yelled at the kids like they were their own. So I think it is very much of a family culture thing. For instance, I probably would not have yelled at my SIL's kids but my own sisters discipline my son all the time. It is a very different family structure.
On the other hand, my own cousins used to throw me off the pier, then jump in after me and hold me under the water. And yeah I did throw my cousin in the water when he was about three and I was much older than 6. In fact, when he was little older each one of us grabbed one of limbs and tossed him into the lagoon in January. Our aunt was mad about that mostly because he had all his clothes on him and it was January. (It was Alabama, but it was chilly out-like 56 degrees).

 

[jensen]

On the other hand, my own cousins used to throw me off the pier, then jump in after me and hold me under the water. And yeah I did throw my cousin in the water when he was about three and I was much older than 6. In fact, when he was little older each one of us grabbed one of limbs and tossed him into the lagoon in January. Our aunt was mad about that mostly because he had all his clothes on him and it was January. (It was Alabama, but it was chilly out-like 56 degrees).

You put it all into perspective for me... kids will be kids, won't they? Thanks for the input!

 

[disykat]

Your niece is learning some unfortunate lessons. Go hysterical whenever you do something wrong and then mommy will fix it for you and make you out to be the victim. Hopefully your sister won't have to regret her parenting decisions later.

I would have scolded too. It wouldn't matter to me if it was one of my own children, a niece, or a stranger - pushing people off the boat is a no-no.

 

[ALISON1572]

**

 

[agnes!]

I CAN COMPLETELY RELATE! My BIL and his wife do not discipline their kids at all and they are quick to tell us if they think our kids are misbehaving. We had something similiar happen to us. Bil and family were visiting at our house. We have 2 kids DD5 and DS3 and they have DD5 and DD3. All the kids were playing in our kids room. We hear a loud thump and my DS3 starts crying. We all run into the room and we ask the kids what happened. My DD5 tells us that their DD5 pushed my son off the bed. Their DD5 keeps denying it. My DS3 tells us he was pushed by their DD5. My BIL tells his daughter, " tell me the truth, as long as you tell me the truth you wont get in trouble." So his daughter admits that she pushed him. Then BIL thanks his daughter for telling the truth and NEVER disciplines her for pushing my son. I took my son into my room and closed the door and my BIL asks my DH "what's wrong? WHat happened?" They left immediately and we get a call 5 minutes later telling us that their DD5 told them that OUR DD5 pushed him! It has gotten so bad that we only see them on holidays-which is unfortunate because their kids are my kids cousins. But it is too frustrating. I don't think you were wrong and I would have done the exact same thing.

Sounds like some of the kids have learned to play the adults off against each other...

agnes!

 

[ALISON1572]

**

 

[disneymom3]

I just want to point out that according to OP, she "pulled my DD back out of the lake screaming and crying, I looked to my niece who was standing right beside me and calmly said "Don't ever do that again." " and then later corrected her sister by saying "no that's not alright"...that's a whole lot different than "going off" or yelling at her niece.

Agreed! And if the neice was crying hysterically because of being told not to do that again, basically OH WELL. She should have been very moved by what she did. I can totally see DHs sisters kids doing something like that and SIL making excuse after excuse. It gets old and it ticks you off after awhile.

I would be mad too. In fact, I am mad for you OP!

 

[DisneyPhD]

I don't think what you said to your niece was out of line at all. - When the whole family is together, my SIL and I have always agreed, and said to the kids, that we are interchangable, discipline-wise. They're used to listening to both us.

I do buy that she might have actually been crying about what she did, not about what you said to her at all. At 6, it's likely she realized right after "oh my gosh, she could have drowned" and was horified at that thought of having so much power (especially if she can't count on her parents to help her control it!)

So I feel bad for you that your outing was messed up, and I don't think you should feel guilty! It was not your fault.

I agree. Sure after the fact we can all think of possibly more effective ways to talk to you niece, but really I feel what you said was fine. It was short and to the point and not out of line at all. I would be PO'd at DSis too.

That is such a frustrating situation. In an idea situation I would suggest you talk with Dsis about it and explain how you didn't mean to make Niece cry, but she really needs to understand why that is dangerous and important never to do it again. After all it isn't going to get better if it isn't addressed.

In reality I would most likey vent about it to DH and online and then move on too.

Anyway, OP, I am with you all the way. Sorry it happened like that.

 

[Micka Mouse]

When I first read your post, I said to myself, "That's what I would have done" . After putting my DD in your dneice's place, I said to myself, "That's what I would have done ." (However, I would NOT have consoled my daughter the way your sis did. I would have given her a few minutes to think about what she had done, talked to her about the danger, then sent her over to apologize.)

You know, I think everyone can relate to a situation like this. My SIL has NO control over her DD. MY MIL, who has her on weekends, has NO control either. On the 4th of July, she was at our house and got an attitude when my dd played with all the kids. You should have heard MIL trying to soothe her. I got a cavity just listening to her . Dneice expected dd to just play with her all day. I calmly explained to her that dd was playing with everyone because they are all our guests, and blah, blah, blah. Sometimes I forget dneice is only 6 . However, if my dd does something wrong, watch out!!!!!!! It's like SIL and MIL watch and wait for her to slip up .

I know this is irrelevant, but it feels GREAT to vent!

 

[WDWorBUST]

I can totally relate. Like others have said it isn't worth ruining a friendship/relationship over but it is extremely frustrating. And NO - you did nothing wrong.

 

[mickey2minnie1]

Yes it was dangerous what she did, although I think she was trying to help, you stated that she started crying hysterically after you told her never to do that again. I think at that point she realized she did something VERY wrong. You also stated your sister spent the rest of the boat ride back consoling her still crying daughter. I think you should have let your sister console her until she calmed down, a time out wouldn't have done anything, the kid was already punishing herself. After she calmed down you could have explained to her all the reasons why she shouldn't push anyone off a boat(I'm sure she would have been more receptive to the lession and would never forget it. ) I think your sister was just reacting to the fact her daughter was hysterical at the time and would have reinforced what you told her after she calmed down. No flames please, but you can't teach anything to a screaming kid.

I agree here. They can be impulsive. She may have been just "helping" your husband out as he was encouraging, not realizing the dangers. I would now go to her and tell her that you still love her, but that you were upset because your dd could not swim and you were very scared. ask her if she understands...

 

[badblackpug]

I'm going to go against the grain here. I think your niece knew exactly what she was doing, and she knew it was wrong, long before she did it. I think, for the most part, 6 year old children know it is not right to push younger children, especially a 3 year old. It seems to me that your niece has very little discipline or limit setting and is used to getting what she wants. My take from your post that she is rarely, if ever, reprimanded, and now has used this opportunity to gain attention from her mother. I know of very few children who would go into that level of hysterics if told "Don't ever do that again." Maybe a pout or something, but hysterics, no.

My friends son is exactly like this. He is given everything he wants, when he wants it. He is never told "no" and is never required to accept responsibility for his behavior. (which, might I add, is just awful) Every time he is corrected by anyone his mother makes excuses for why he acted the way he did, and then accuses the correcter of "picking on him." She no longer speaks to me because it finally became too much and I had to tell her I could no longer let my kids around him when I was not present. He was violent with them (and other children) and her excuse was always "that's just how kids play." I could no longer have him at my house because he wouldn't listen to a word I say.

Have you sat down with your sister to discuss her childrens' behavior? Have you explained to her that others avoid spending time with her kids because they are so unpleasant to be around? I understand that parenting styles differ, but if this is an issue that more than you and your hub have commented on, maybe it is time to bring it to light.

 

[pweyl36]

Wow! A whole day's events ruined over an event like this??

Kids are kids. They act like kids. The 6 year old is 6. The adults here let this get completely out of hand.

The 3 year old should be consoled, but gotten back into the water as quickly as possible, so she doesn't get a phobia over the whole thing.

The 6 year old who made a mistake should get a lesson when she is calm enough to understand it and process it.

And the adults who would call it a day over something like this need therapy!

I thought the same thing.In my family if any child is acting the fool they are corrected.Weather from the parent ,aunt ,uncle,grandmom,or grandpa.Thats just how we were raised.

 

[ALISON1572]

I don't think the parents did the wrong thing by cutting the trip short-I've had to do it with my DH's family plenty of times because they refuse to discipline their kids. It can get pretty frustrating spending time with parents who don't discipline their kids and make excuses for their behavior. The parents who need therapy are the ones who make excuses for their kids bad behavior and let them do whatever they want.

 

[mdsouth]

I'm going to go against the grain here. I think your niece knew exactly what she was doing, and she knew it was wrong, long before she did it. I think, for the most part, 6 year old children know it is not right to push younger children, especially a 3 year old. It seems to me that your niece has very little discipline or limit setting and is used to getting what she wants. My take from your post that she is rarely, if ever, reprimanded, and now has used this opportunity to gain attention from her mother. I know of very few children who would go into that level of hysterics if told "Don't ever do that again." Maybe a pout or something, but hysterics, no.

My friends son is exactly like this. He is given everything he wants, when he wants it. He is never told "no" and is never required to accept responsibility for his behavior. (which, might I add, is just awful) Every time he is corrected by anyone his mother makes excuses for why he acted the way he did, and then accuses the correcter of "picking on him." She no longer speaks to me because it finally became too much and I had to tell her I could no longer let my kids around him when I was not present. He was violent with them (and other children) and her excuse was always "that's just how kids play." I could no longer have him at my house because he wouldn't listen to a word I say.

Have you sat down with your sister to discuss her childrens' behavior? Have you explained to her that others avoid spending time with her kids because they are so unpleasant to be around? I understand that parenting styles differ, but if this is an issue that more than you and your hub have commented on, maybe it is time to bring it to light.

I thought for sure that the poster of this quote must live in the same town as I do and know the same child and the same parent! I too stepped in and the mother jumped on me and wouldn't speak to me. No loss there.

TO the Original Poster -- You were justified in saying what you did to your niece AND you were right to be upset when your sister did not discipline the child. Your sister is allowing her child to get away with being a bully. It is much easier on the sister to not discipline her child -- HOWEVER, she will regret her lack of responsibility as a parent later, when the child is older and defies her!!!