OT-maybe--people "forgetting" the money you lent them

[Ericandjenng]

Hi, I know this is probably OT and a little long but I am really hurt (and now a bit annoyed) at my DB and really need to vent. I don't expect much from most of my and none of my DH's family. But I did expect more from DB. Talk about a let down today.

For a little background, my DB is late 30's and finally found the love of his life. They are getting married in June. They met in CT, moved back to TN after she finished her degree, she got pregnant, had baby girl(spitting image of DB), moved to MO where she's from.

Because they had kept moving their move up, they did not have everything in place for jobs and whatnot in MO and are living with her parents. They also did not plan their money as well as they should have and (to us anyway) made some odd decisions in how they moved which included my DB flying one-way from MO to TN to get their other car. We live about 2 hours from most of my family (between them and MO where DB moved) and he frequently stops in as they go through our area. On this particular trek, he stopped and waited for us to get home so that he could borrow $$ because he didn't have enough for gas all the way to MO. DH and I said ok and even gave him $20 more than he asked for because we really thought that he would be the one person in both our families that we could really count on. We never mentioned the money again figuring that new baby and trying to get back on track with the move and everything that eventually they'd repay us. But if they never really could, we wouldn't worry about it.

Fast forward to today. My DB came through town yesterday with fiance and baby. I had to work and did not see him. I had talked to DB more than once during Oct/Nov/Dec about what we were thinking about getting his DD. She's only 5 months so I had considered several things that could possibly be put back like one share or a savings bond and had even gotten their address and her ss# if we went this route. In the end I bought her two toys--one of which was a copy of something our DD had loved at about that same age. They did not get either of my kids anything. At all. Honestly it was just a blip of annoyance and I would never have thought about it again until I got a call from my DNiece (preggers with #3 and a girl again). She was in a store wanting suggestions on what to get for the upcoming baby because her DUncle had given her a $100 gift card....?!?!?! And then she FB'd about her great gift from her uncle...grrrrrr

I really try not to equate what people give others compared to what they give us or even equate it to what we may give them. But honestly, what am I going to tell my DS and DD when they ask why they get so & so a gift but they didn't get one back? She's way too young to even know about it yet. But he's getting to that age that even as much as we try to shield them from that reality, he's going to realize the disparity.

Now back to the money. I sent him a text about why he (DB) would give a big gift and not pay us back. Oh, and I was catty and said "Thanks for the kids' gifts." (Shame on me but I just couldn't help it.) His response was "I forgot." Then She handles the money, not him. How do you make a point to stop and see (even had to wait for about an hour for us to get home) someone to borrow money and then just "forget".

And then we get into this text conversation about me being mad and why was I mad. He made the comment about how much he has given and not gotten back....?!?!? He gave me some nice gifts when DS was born. One year he was actually in town for Christmas and he gave us $200 "to make up for all the gifts he had always forgotten". And then last year when he & fiance visited just after my DD was born, they gave us a very small gift for her. I can't remember all the times when we've gotten him (or him & her) gifts. But I know anytime that I've known he'd be at our house for the holidays, we've gotten him something. And sometimes we've gotten him something anyway and sent it through my DM. The other thing is we have given them tons of barely used baby clothes since our DD is just 7 months older than her cousin. We also gave them several baby gear items like a bouncy seat and activity gym when she'd barely used them. We even had the leftover jars of baby food ready for them yesterday because I had already bought it when our DD decided she wasn't going to eat anymore of it.

More of the family background, my kids always seem to be the ones that all the family overlook including their DGrands....but I get to hear all about what has been done for the other Grandkids and great grandkids....I try (and so far have succeeded for the most part) in keeping it from my DS. Luckily DD is too young yet.

Ok, so am I overreacting? Thanks for listening!

 

[Marionnette]

Hi, I know this is probably OT and a little long but I am really hurt (and now a bit annoyed) at my DB and really need to vent. I don't expect much from most of my and none of my DH's family. But I did expect more from DB. Talk about a let down today.

For a little background, my DB is late 30's and finally found the love of his life. They are getting married in June. They met in CT, moved back to TN after she finished her degree, she got pregnant, had baby girl(spitting image of DB), moved to MO where she's from.

Because they had kept moving their move up, they did not have everything in place for jobs and whatnot in MO and are living with her parents. They also did not plan their money as well as they should have and (to us anyway) made some odd decisions in how they moved which included my DB flying one-way from MO to TN to get their other car. We live about 2 hours from most of my family (between them and MO where DB moved) and he frequently stops in as they go through our area. On this particular trek, he stopped and waited for us to get home so that he could borrow $$ because he didn't have enough for gas all the way to MO. DH and I said ok and even gave him $20 more than he asked for because we really thought that he would be the one person in both our families that we could really count on. We never mentioned the money again figuring that new baby and trying to get back on track with the move and everything that eventually they'd repay us. But if they never really could, we wouldn't worry about it.

Fast forward to today. My DB came through town yesterday with fiance and baby. I had to work and did not see him. I had talked to DB more than once during Oct/Nov/Dec about what we were thinking about getting his DD. She's only 5 months so I had considered several things that could possibly be put back like one share or a savings bond and had even gotten their address and her ss# if we went this route. In the end I bought her two toys--one of which was a copy of something our DD had loved at about that same age. They did not get either of my kids anything. At all. Honestly it was just a blip of annoyance and I would never have thought about it again until I got a call from my DNiece (preggers with #3 and a girl again). She was in a store wanting suggestions on what to get for the upcoming baby because her DUncle had given her a $100 gift card....?!?!?! And then she FB'd about her great gift from her uncle...grrrrrr

I really try not to equate what people give others compared to what they give us or even equate it to what we may give them. But honestly, what am I going to tell my DS and DD when they ask why they get so & so a gift but they didn't get one back? She's way too young to even know about it yet. But he's getting to that age that even as much as we try to shield them from that reality, he's going to realize the disparity.

Now back to the money. I sent him a text about why he (DB) would give a big gift and not pay us back. Oh, and I was catty and said "Thanks for the kids' gifts." (Shame on me but I just couldn't help it.) His response was "I forgot." Then She handles the money, not him. How do you make a point to stop and see (even had to wait for about an hour for us to get home) someone to borrow money and then just "forget".

And then we get into this text conversation about me being mad and why was I mad. He made the comment about how much he has given and not gotten back....?!?!? He gave me some nice gifts when DS was born. One year he was actually in town for Christmas and he gave us $200 "to make up for all the gifts he had always forgotten". And then last year when he & fiance visited just after my DD was born, they gave us a very small gift for her. I can't remember all the times when we've gotten him (or him & her) gifts. But I know anytime that I've known he'd be at our house for the holidays, we've gotten him something. And sometimes we've gotten him something anyway and sent it through my DM. The other thing is we have given them tons of barely used baby clothes since our DD is just 7 months older than her cousin. We also gave them several baby gear items like a bouncy seat and activity gym when she'd barely used them. We even had the leftover jars of baby food ready for them yesterday because I had already bought it when our DD decided she wasn't going to eat anymore of it.

More of the family background, my kids always seem to be the ones that all the family overlook including their DGrands....but I get to hear all about what has been done for the other Grandkids and great grandkids....I try (and so far have succeeded for the most part) in keeping it from my DS. Luckily DD is too young yet.

Ok, so am I overreacting? Thanks for listening!

That's a loaded question and you probably wont like some of the answers you get. I hope that typing it all out helped you to get the frustration out of your system. Good luck with a resolution.

 

[Ericandjenng]

Marionnette--thanks for reading my vent.

 

[Ericandjenng]

Oh and here's a kicker to this whole annoyance. Since DB, fiance and baby have moved to MO, she has been planning their wedding. Sometime this fall, I got text from DB about my DS being in their wedding. By the way the tux will be $70....?

When DH & I got married, we paid for everyone's tux and dress (long story) including my brother's. At the time, he was single with pretty much no obligations and could have easily contributed but we didn't ask and he didn't offer. We chose to do it that way and we're fine with that.

But now expecting us to fork out $70 for the tux and I can't get it locally and bring it with me because he needs a certain number to get his free....?!?!? Which also means my DS won't be able to be fitted. And then there's the trip expense.......UGH!

 

[QVCshopper]

OK, I read through your post, and I think you need to let it go. If you want your DB in your life, is it really worth the (what I assume to be) less than $100--money he used to buy gas to get home? I can't comment about the gifts being more or less, but I think that you have to move past this to keep your relationship good. I have a situation going on with my sister, but it's not about money--much worse, and I'm still attempting to fix things with her. Maybe lower gifts that you give each other or agree not to exchange? That's what I did with my DB, and it's made life much easier. Hope that helps.

Just read the thing about tuxes. In my wedding, I did not buy the people their tuxes/dresses, not did they buy mine when I was in their wedding. Never heard of that...

 

[SplashMo]

My brother spent $10,000 of my inheritance on "accident".

I forgave him the minute he told me. I only have one brother...

 

[clh2]

There is a way to get tuxes measured - just have a local store measure and call in the measurements to the actual store they are being rented from . I thought (but could be mistaken) that this happens all the time.

Now - maybe you could "gift" your brother the loan forgiveness for his wedding present???

I realize you've passed along a lot of clothes and stuff. If you do mention the $$ to your brother, don't mention the clothes and stuff...they are really unrelated events.

Good luck...if your brother doesn't pay you back - you've learned the lesson that he can't be trusted, and to never borrow him money again.

Good luck! Family stuff sure gets tricky!

 

[Halbleib1]

As Suze Orman says you should only lend someone money if you can afford it and to always consider it a gift. Because your chances of getting that money back are pretty slim. After all if they had the money they would not be asking you for it to begin with.

When I got married my nephew went to a local place to get measured as we live 4 hours apart and they could not make it down here before the wedding. They just called the measurements into the store we were using. If you can not afford the price of the tux on top of travel you need to let your brother know up front.

 

[Ericandjenng]

Thanks for everyone whose read my vent and commented. I really do appreciate it.

It's not that we can't afford it (and normally they don't have a cash-flow problem, they just made some odd choices regarding their move--they're both nurses (1-RN & 1-LPN)), but it's just assumed and expected that we (DH & I) should do this or that regardless of what anyone else in the family has done or contributed and there's always an excuse for everyone else. It gets frustrating that our kids always seem to be the ones overlooked by all these same people. Do you really want to tell your 6 year old, 'sorry, we thought about them but they don't think about you'?

We're lucky because we have some truly great friends who have unknowingly and unintentionally filled the void that our families tend to leave. I know this in my head and my heart. I just needed to vent (and you guys are great for being there for vents!) because I had expected more from my DB for alot of reasons (and no he's not the 'big' brother) but we are/were closer than me and my DS. And no I am not going to end our contact/relationship because this money/gift issue.

Many, many thanks! & Happy New Year!

 

[mamaLori05]

It's actually VERY common to be expected to foot the bill for tuxes and bridesmaids dresses if you are in a wedding. In fact, it's pretty rare that the bride and groom pay for that. That was very nice of you to do that for your wedding, but you can't expect others to do it just because you did. It's also normal to get the tuxes all at one store so that they all match. To get measured, you just go to your local tux rental store and they will measure you for free. Then call your measurments in to the store they are using. It's pretty easy.

 

[3Minnies1Mickey]

It gets frustrating that our kids always seem to be the ones overlooked by all these same people. Do you really want to tell your 6 year old, 'sorry, we thought about them but they don't think about you'?

I really get why you're frustrated with the whole situation. It seems like my kids are at the bottom of the list a lot of the times too. I attribute it to DHs family feeling that since he's "the boy" (has 3 sisters) he can take care of himself, and his sisters always "need help". They have zero sense of equality with the grandkids, and really they just don't think about it. Luckily my kids haven't really noticed, even though I have....FOR YEARS!!! (My inlaws kept putting off my baby shower with my oldest until it just didn't happen, then forgot to buy her a present for her first birthday). Any hoo....you really just need to let it go, the only one it's hurting is you. If the kids ask, tell them honestly that you just don't know why.

 

[shortbun]

If you can not afford (either financially or emotionally) to lose money, don't 'lend' it. Even Shakespeare knew that-'neither a borrower nor a lender be.' I never loan money. If someone needs it and I have it, I give as a gift. If the recipient returns it, I don't fault them but I do not let my expectations become my disappointments AND it's much easier on relationships. kwim?

eta. Wow! I just re-read posts on this thread and Suze Ormon agrees with little old me. kewl.

 

[eeyorethegreat]

I am s orry you are having frustrations with your DB. It sounds like besides this incident you have had a decent relationship with him. I know what it is like to feel that your children are being ignored while others favored. IT is tough as a parent to feel that way. Your kids are still young and they probably aren't counting the gifts they get or noting and keeping track of whom gave them a gift and what the value is. You said what do I tell them. You don't need to tell them anything. If on the off chance they ask why they didn't get a gift from Uncle and your family gave them one, which really unless they heard you talking about all this it probably won;t accor to them at all, just tell them the joy is in the giving and the gift you receive isn't always one wrapped up but the good feeling you get by giving a gift.

Others mentioned about the tux, sounds about right to me . You were very generous to cover it all. I am sure your wedding party apprciated it.

The money lent, think of lent money whether $5 or $5000 as money you will never see again if you do get paid back wonderful but always have strongly in the back of your mind that you won't ever see it again. It's one of the dangers of lending.

Most of all PLEASE do not let this ruin your relationship with your brother. That relationship is far more valuable than any money you lent or gift package you have received.

 

[tomthebarncat]

Clearly your DB has money to spend on what he wants to spend it on. I would go to the wedding but would not buy a gift and simply write in the card " Your financial debt has been forgiven, all the best!". I would have no problem doing this but then again, regardless of the circumstances I do not loan money to anyone never have and never will. I am not responsible for other folks financial stupidness and I refuse to accept that responsibility. DB could have taken a greyhound bus for alot less instead of flying and used the difference for gas. OP stand your ground, as you have clearly been used as an ATM!

 

[ADisneyQueen]

I did this same thing with the debt forgiveness for my DSis wedding. She had borrowed $1000 and paid back all but $200 over a few years. I was going to put about the same amount towards her cake b/c they didn't have much $ for the wedding( that would have been their wedding gift), but then his parents gave them a big check for it, so I told her to buy the cake with some of that money and I would forgive the loan. Then I bought a small gift and card for the reception. I think you should do this too, b/c it made me feel a lot better.

 

[sam_gordon]

Regarding the kids gifts... you (and DH) are the only ones who notice DB didn't get gifts for your kids. None of my kids (13, 7, 4) noticed their Aunt didn't send gifts this year (she sent me an email saying she's having a tough time financially). If you oldest is 7, there's no way he knows on his own that DB didn't give him anything.

On the loan... I agree it sounds like less than $100. And you're holding a grudge over that? Let it go. Even if it was $1000, at this point I'd let it go. Confronting him via TEXT message? That's terrible IMO.

On the wedding/tux... of course he wants to get all the tuxes at one store. That's a nice easy way to make sure everything matches. Go into a tux store and see how many different shades of "black" or lapel cuts their are. There is no reason why your DS can't get measured and those measurements sent to the correct rental place. And $70 sounds about right. I agree with the others, part of being in the wedding party is paying for your tux/dress. You were very kind to pay for your wedding party, but I feel that's the exception not the rule. I think you go to the wedding and get them a $50 gift. Done. Enjoy yourself.

I hope your vent made you feel better, but I think you're taking things too personally. Don't worry about what DB gives to others. People's finances change throughout the year and what he can afford to give in June (for example) maybe he can't give in December.

 

[PaulaSue]

It's actually VERY common to be expected to foot the bill for tuxes and bridesmaids dresses if you are in a wedding. In fact, it's pretty rare that the bride and groom pay for that. That was very nice of you to do that for your wedding, but you can't expect others to do it just because you did. It's also normal to get the tuxes all at one store so that they all match. To get measured, you just go to your local tux rental store and they will measure you for free. Then call your measurments in to the store they are using. It's pretty easy.

Ditto.

OP, it sounds like a lot of stuff has built up over the years. I am Sorry and GL!

 

[dhuba]

I don't agree with most of the posts here. Yes you lent what was a minimal amount of money to a family member, but why shouldn't they have to pay it back? We need to expect more from them so they will expect more of themselves. You can't just go around asking for money from people and think you don't need to repay them. That's just terrible!! Now if you know he is still struggling and be tries to repay you, you could always say don't worry about it. But they should at least offer it back.

As far as the grandkid favoritism, I have had my share of this also, but more so with a certain childless aunt ,(husband's sister) when my kids were little. She would often show me things she bought certain nieces and nephews for no reason while my kids were there. Duh??? She never bought my kids anything for no reason. It was so insensitive and there was no way I could really explain it to them. She would also buy one of her nephews tons and tons of stuff for this birthdays as my kids watched him open them at the party, knowing that she didn't buy them nearly that for their birthday just a month or so before. I feel it hurt them and their self-esteem and they wondered why they weren't treated equally. Needless to say, my kids feel much more connected to my side of the family in their adult years now. Just try to shelter them from the gift snubbing and don't call attention it, and don't get their child any gifts so it's all even.

 

[dvcgirl]

This is the reason that we never loan money to family, or anyone for that matter. We either give it, or we don't do anything at all. That way we're not disappointed if and when they don't pay us back. I've seen it time and time again in families that we know. Same thing for co-signing.....we've seen horrible consequences for relationships when co-signing "goes bad" and the co-signer ends up paying the bill, which happens very often.

I'd just let it go....

 

[DawnM]

And Shakespeare got it from Proverbs. So, this is truly not a new concept! From the beginning of man, lending and borrowing was an issue.

Proverbs 22:7 (Revised) Just as the rich rule the poor, so the borrower is servant to the lender.

Many financial gurus agree that you should NEVER lend money you don't plan on losing and (and I know this wasn't part of what you said, but it is worth saying), you should NEVER co-sign on a loan you don't intend to pay in full! I have a dear friend whose mother is a sap for co-signing for her kids and grandkids and they all stopped paying at one time or another leaving her with the bills. If the person can't get his/her own loan, they CANNOT PAY!

Dawn

If you can not afford (either financially or emotionally) to lose money, don't 'lend' it. Even Shakespeare knew that-'neither a borrower nor a lender be.' I never loan money. If someone needs it and I have it, I give as a gift. If the recipient returns it, I don't fault them but I do not let my expectations become my disappointments AND it's much easier on relationships. kwim?

eta. Wow! I just re-read posts on this thread and Suze Ormon agrees with little old me. kewl.