OT: How do you handle a saucy child???

[NotUrsula]

Just a comment on the whole business of dropping everything to take a child out of a store. I learned VERY quickly that doing that made DS worse because that was exactly what he wanted -- he hated being in stores, and realized that tantruming would get him out of them.

Mostly I just stopped taking him with me into stores until he got old enough to be patient with the experience, but in situations where I had no choice, I started making him do "corner-time-outs" *in* the store, thereby prolonging his "agony" and denying him the exit that he was bucking for. I'd find a nice blank wall or pillar, and make him stand there facing it until he calmed down. Once we ended up standing there for over an hour, because he kept making snide remarks every time I finally let him away from the wall. I just pointed out that we were going to stay in the store until I finished getting the groceries, and that if that took forever he had only himself to blame. It took a while, but he finally got the point.

I had a friend whose child used to deliberately misbehave to get out of restaurants, and of course she fell for it and took her out. It only stopped when she realized that the solution was to make her do a public time-out *in* the restaurant (usually in the restroom), and refuse to leave until everyone else in the family had eaten.

Mind you, I don't advocate letting a child audibly scream in a public place, but for this particular problem *not* leaving may work better if you can effectively keep the noise down.

 

[kt_mom]

Thank you so much for this thread! I have been going through the same thing with our DD. I was just talking to DH a little while ago about it. It seems like it has gotten worse in the last few months. I will admit alot of it is probably my fault. I was too easy on her. But recently I have been trying to correct that. Its an adjustment for both of us.

One of her favorite things to do is to watch a movie in her bed before she goes to sleep. She's very good about getting up and turning if off when it goes off or many times earlier b/c she is ready to go to sleep. This is where I started. She was very surprised I think when I actually turned it off and didn't let her watch it one night for yelling at me. She laid in bed and cried and whined for almost an hour. But I did not turn that TV back on. When DH got home from work and went in to say good night she told him I wouldn't let her watch TV but not why. The next time I had to turn it off she got upset and fussed for awhile and then went on to sleep. When DH got home and went in to see her she told him that she and mommy had a bad night and that she wasn't allowed to watch tv. He asked her if she was going to have a good day the next day and she said yes.

I've only had to do the TV thing twice so far, but its only been a little over a week that I started it. I see a little bit of change already. I think she knows I mean it now. I was really bad about threatening and not following through. I had to change it though. Not just for me but for her as well. So that she can be a happy child and I think that this will make her happier in the long run too. And hopefully it will help on vacation when everyone will be a little more on edge!!

 

[agnes!]

My DD(14) knows that I *mean* what I say and that I will (and do) follow through.

It doesn't seem to matter too much what the actual consequences are, the parent just *must* be consistent. You have to be smarter and figure out what your kid loves the most & take that away. Ipod downloads? Going to the pool? IM'ing friends? Getting french fries at McDonald's? Watching some TV show? Getting the latest comic book? Playing on some game system? Going to a birthday party? Always follow-through. Don't be a follower of (what I call) *The "Now Johnny" School of Fine Parenting*.
"Now Johnny, don't do that". And what does Johnny do?
Ignores mom and/or dad and goes right ahead and does what he's not supposed to. And what does Mommy/Daddy do?
"Now Johnny, I told you not to do that".

And the kid never has to face up to any consequences.

Remember to say to yourself my all-time favorite movie line (from "Fried Green Tomatoes")
"Face it girls...I'm older & I have more insurance".
I have always taken that line to mean...
"Don't buffalo *me*. I've been 2(or 5 or 14) before, you cannot put anything over on me. Don't even try." Getting older has to mean something, right? I think there's a quote that goes something like "Age & experience will trumph over youth & immaturity every time".

Hang in there Mom...after all, our parents made it through raising all of us!

agnes!

 

[perdidochas]

I am at my wit's end and I am not sure what to do about it. My DD is four and will not listen to a word I say. I have put her in time outs,, taken away toys, even put away all the Easter candy, but to no avail. I do not want to spank her. I am afraid that this shows her violence in anger is okay and for me it is not okay. But I don't know what to do. I end up yelling at her which makes us both upset.

Spank her when you aren't angry. When she doesn't listen. Just ignore it. A few minutes later, when you are calm and collected, explain to her what she did wrong, and calmly spank her.

The problem is that none of your punishments effect her in the way you want them to. You need to figure out a punishment that will quell bad behavior. You have tied your hands by refusing to use an effective, time-honored technique.

Can anyone help please? I know she will outgrow this behavior sometime, but I am not sure I can last that long.

She won't outgrow this. She realizes that you have no power over her, and that is not going to lessen with time.

She "sauces" back with no problem and that just makes matters worse. Her new thing is to repeat everything I say. I really hate that little game so it is like fuel to the fire. THe worse part is it all happens in the evening, after I pick her up from the sitter. DH is at work and does not get home until after we are both in bed so I get the whole show to myself. There are no other children to help buffer us either.

Any words of wisdom?? Thank you.

You have to try something new. I recommend spanking. It will definitely get her attention, since obviously taking away things, time-outs, and yelling don't seem to effect her.

My wife and I do not have children who do this. Why? We are not afraid to do the natural thing--spanking. Watch animal shows--mama lions and mama bears have no problem swatting their offspring.

That said, positive reinforcement is the real key to all this. For every spanking we've administered, we've probably praised at least 100 times. The thing is that praise reinforces good behavior, it doesn't quell non-acceptable behavior.

 

[jjenniboo]

I am probably in the minority by saying this but I am not against the occasional swat on the bottom. This doesn't happen very often but my DD4 knows that if I have to threaten a spanking she will get one if the behavior doesn't stop. 9 times out of 10 though my daughter has learned that if I'm giving her that "you need to stop" look she will. I also count to five. If I get to five something will be taken away or she will go to the corner. I have only had to send her to the corner once or twice. Now when she hears me counting she immediately will say something like Ok Mommy I'll stop. Overall she is a very well mannered girl (despite her stubborness) and I get compliments on how well behaved she is.

 

[reginaastralis]

My daughter is only 2 1/2, but she's "driven". Strong willed works, but I call her "driven".

Here's what helps with us ...

1.) Counting. We count to three, and something goes away. It really depends on what she's doing. My mom has a wheelchair right now, and Julie loves to climb in it and flip over. Once she climbs in, which she knows better the threat is a spanking since she can hurt herself. If I get to three, she gets a swat on the hand. She's only climbed into the chair three times since I swatted her hand, and has always gotten out of it by three. If it's something like cleaning up her toys, if I get to three, they go up and she can't have it back. I bought her new crayons today, and she deliberatley threw them on the floor. I made her help me clean them up and she said "No, you do it. Pick them up." I counted to three, and she wouldn't help, so I started putting them into the box and put them on top of the tv. All of a sudden there was a little girl saying sorry and knowing she was doing wrong. She didn't get them back tonight.

2.) We have a timeout chair that we have in the end of the kitchen, were I can see her, but she can't see the tv. Over it, we have a sad face. They use sad face in school when the kids aren't listening, instead of time out. We use the supernanny technique on timeout as well. Our timeout chair has been a godsend, I picked it up at Michael's, it's wood and I painted it. She knows better though ... and she knows when she gets to three to go and sit. I'm thinking about a timer for her and her timeout chair.

3.) For the store. HA! Ok, this is seriously a work in progress. First, on my LONG trips, I try to go by myself. Seriously, I don't want to be there, either does she. However, if I have to have her ... I make her help. She carries the basket *the basket means mommy can't buy more than she needs anyways* and off we go. She likes to sit in those darn race car ones, and I don't like them .. so our deal is she either sits on my shoulders or carries the basket. She also helps me by counting what goes in the basket ... or I tell her "Mommy needs cheese, can you remind mommy" and we say it during the trip.

And this might get me flamed, but I noticed that Julie is worst when she's full of processed crap and sugar and when she hasn't had a nap. I'm not trying to be the mommy police here ... but look at her environment when she has a blow up. Is she overtired? Has she been eating junk? Too much juice? This is something I've been looking at a lot lately b/c Julie gets night terrors, and they're brought on by all that I just posted. I'm becoming a junk food Nazi, that's why I bring it up. On days where I have her, and my parents don't fill her full of crud, she's a happier child. Maybe she's happier to be with me *I could hope* but more than likely it's the junk. Being a single mom, it's hard for me to admit it ... but my daughter wants to be with me more. If she's having a blow up after school, I know it's b/c she's tired, overstimulated, hungry and she's missed me. It's time to rush home, snuggles, something quick for dinner and some coloring time.

Take it in stride. It will get better. It's all about setting rules and boundaries. And, I LOVED the responsibilties chart. I can't wait until Julie's a bit older.

 

[Helene]

Myy DD, 9, is a strong-willed child as well. I "got it" by the time she was 3 that I had to work hard at not engaging in the power stuggles she would set for me.

Basically, it's important to step back from the "conflict" and determine what the power struggle is about. Unless her decision gives me concern for personal safety, I allow her to make as many decisions as possible realizing that there are natural consequences.

For example, the other night she cried because she realized she left the "rough draft" version of a report in school and it was due the next morning. Her initial thought was "I'll just turn in the rough draft, my teacher won't care". I was about to get into the whole "You will re-do it tonight, I won't allow you to turn such a paper" blah, blah ,blah scene. Then I backed away, thought for a minute and basically said " The choice is yours. I believe that you will risk your straight A average if you make that choice, but it's your report card, not mine." I then left the room.

Within about 5 minutes,she asked if I could help her to re-do it, and the rest of the night was quite peaceful.

Good luck, the strong-willed child can be difficult at times. But I always say that I will never worry ablout her survival skills, I know she'll always do well for herself in the long-term.

 

[nessz79]

Although we do spank for major offenses and do not believe spanking is abusive or counter-productive when used correctly, there are plenty of other things we do as well. It depends on the severity of the offense. Minor offenses usually correspond with what they did. Time-out if they can't play nicely or are being very saucy. Removal of a toy they aren't playing with nicely. A very stern sit-down talk when they did something wrong but they didn't seem to do it to make us angry (overtired or what-not).

I think the more important thing, more important than the "punishment" is the way you do it. You have to mean business, you can't waver at all. If you even think you MIGHT waver kids pick up on it and they take advantage.

I agree with another poster who said that this probably won't get better on its own. Maybe it would, but I doubt it. It will definitely take time, but I think it will also require discipline.

If you have more children in the future (wasn't sure if this was your first- maybe you've been through this before), I would say that the earlier you start with the "mommy's in charge" business, the easier it gets as they get older. We've had 2 boys and they have both been very tough in the 2's. However the oldest is now 4 and is very well-behaved...and trust me- he was a nightmare when he was 2!

Best wishes to you. I'm sure you'll make the right choices!

 

[hildasmuriel]

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but expect things to get WORSE just for a while. Your daughter will realise that you are starting to mean business and will more than likely rebel even more. This means that your new regime is working! Stick with it (really really important) and before long your daughter will crave the happy good attention she gets when she shows you happy good behaviour.

One other thing I would suggest - if you do count to 3 or 5 or whatever, PLEASE don't do that " one, two.......two and a half.....two and three quarters........two and seven eights" thing. If you SAY you will count to 3, then STICK to 3.

 

[KELLY]

My DD is only 20 months and she sits in time out. The first few time she tried to get out of the chair. Know I sit her in the chair wait 1 minute while she is crying and go get her. We just started this a month or so ago DD like to hit. And I will not be hit. I also don't give in and no extra chances. We went to the Childrens place this week and she wanted to get out of her stroller so I let her but she wouldn't hold my hand or stay by me so she had to get back in her stroller. She had a temper tantrum she hit me kicked me but she stayed in the stoller. I figure if I do this know maybe she get the picture that not everything is her way. Stay strong it is hard I hate being a mean mommy.

Kelly

 

[krystalleigh1]

We used charts for good behavior for DD when she was younger. For each time she did something good or nice, she'd get a mark. For each time she did something bad (like backtalk), we'd take a mark away. I posted it up on her door for anyone to see. She hated the idea of anyone seeing in writing that she was bad, so she tried extra hard to be good. Plus, if she had a certain amount of marks, she'd get rewarded. Not that backtalking is a thing of the past, but we have managed to get it down to just when she's in a really bad mood.

I think a reward system is a great way to enforce good behavior and squash the bad stuff. I use a marbel jar. When DS does someting good he gets a marble or two. If he misbehaves a marbel is taken away. At the end of the week he can cash in his marbles for things like a trip to the Children's Museum, a special treat, toy, etc. It works great because they are so proud of the good things they do. They really try hard to get marbles-much more effective than time out.

 

[nessz79]

Stay strong it is hard I hate being a mean mommy.

You aren't being mean- just doing what mommies have to do

 

[zoemurr]

but here's what I did. My DS (around 3yrs old) got into HUGE temper tantrums, with all the kicking and screaming (fortunately he only did it at home.) Well, one day I had an idea. I got out the camcorder and taped the whole thing. He was curious enough to calm down and see what I was doing. Then I had him watch it. I told him if he didn't stop I would show it to Daddy when he got home, and then to grandma. We talked about how silly he looked, and how all the screaming would never help him get his way.

From then on, if I saw a tantrum coming on I would just say, "Oh wait, I need to tape this!" and he would stop before I could get the camera. Then we could talk about what was bothering him. He's 5 now and we haven't had any in a very long time.

We did the charts, and the 1-2-3 thing, but ultimately this is what worked. A little unethical maybe.. but we have some great "memories" on tape.

 

[Nanisashi]

My dd is just like that, every day power struggles and drama. What has helps is.. over the top praise when she does something good. Also her pediatrician advised that I explain to her that things are her choice. For ex. if she is yelling or trying to hit mommy then I tell her that she is choosing not to go to the park, that way she begins to understand the consequences of her 'choices' . I will definitely look into the book that have been recommend on this thread!