OT - Canadian HealthCare System

[BCDisneyFanatic]

Hi,

I've been following a thread on the Communities Board that is discussing health insurance in the US, and the fact that 47 million americans are uninsured. I was truly surprised by the number of posters that feel that a universal health care system would be a catastrophe.

While our system has problems, I don't think I would ever want to trade it for the american system. I would love to improve wait times, and after having spent a few years in Australia I have some appreciation for the option for private care, but I still have no qualms about my taxes going to our current system.

It's got me wondering though...do other Canadians feel the same way?

 

[SandraC]

My dd13 has had 3 open heart operations at Sick Kids, oodles of minor invasive procedures, I can't count the tests and blood tranfusions and I've lost count of the number of days spent in hospitals.

YES! I think we have a GREAT health system! Our doctors, nurses and support techies are awesome!

ER's can be busy, but that's not a health care problem, that's a public education problem. We were in ER last week and there was a lady who walked in and ask for a pregnancy test, people with colds and other issues that could be looked after at a walk-in-clinic.

First hand experience....I LOVE OUR SYSTEM! Blessings, S

 

[LindaM]

You know I like the fact that if I don't feel good or my kids don't feel good, I can make a dr's appointment go see him, and not have to take out a second mortgage. Yes, our does need improvement, not only for the patients but also for the dr's and nurses, but I agree I would not trade it for the American System either.

 

[damo]

There is always room for improvement but our family has been extremely pleased with the prompt service we have always received. I have no complaints whatsoever. I love not having to worry about my extended family and friends not receiving the care they need.

I find it so funny that the Americans love to bash our system but they really know nothing about it while we Canadians are, on the whole, quite pleased with it and wouldn't trade it for the American system.

 

[FayeW]

Although I currently live in a "have" province, I was born and raised in a "have not" province (Nova Scotia). There are some distinct differences in how health care is managed in Nova Scotia vs Ontario. I think we have a pretty great system in Ottawa, which I am going to assume is consistent across the province of Ontario. I love that I can go to a walk in clinic whenever I need to, and many of them have blood labs and Xray/Ultrasound clinics right there. No need to wait to see your family doctor and then had over to the hospital for xrays and tests. That was how it worked in NS and unless it has changed drastically since we left 10 yrs ago, I assume that you still have to go to the hospital for the actual blood work, etc.

I think that things like health care, education, and believe it or not, the Dept of Motor Vehicles shoud be standardized across the country. Take a model that works really well and adapt it to the whole country. Fully functional walk in clinics should be available to folks in rural NS just as they are to residents of our nation's capital. Children in Altantic Canada should have the same curriculum as students in British Columbia. If it's run by the government, and we are all paying our tax dollars to fund it, the access to care and education should be the SAME!

My biggest pet peeve, which is why I threw Motor Vehicles into the mix, is that automobile safety and inspection standards differ across the country. In NS, for example, we had to have our vehicle inspected every year. Great! It identifed problems and helped keep our children safe. No driving on bald tires or with cracked windshields. In Ontario, it's safetied when it changes ownership and every now and again we have to do an emissions test. I have literally seen cars on the road held together with dust, rust and duct tape! Not safe for the occupants, and not safe for the other vehicles on the road, either. Shouldn't the safety standards for all Canadian citizens be the same regardless of where in Canada we live?

I am a very proud Nova Scotian, so please don't anybody misunderstand me. I am not knocking NS in any way. There are just some things I really like about living in Ontario, and access to health care is one of them.

 

[Yzma and Kronk]

I have lived both systems and I will say that in my experience I'd take what we had in the US anyday!

I'm going to explain my observations the way I saw it. I know it is much more complicated than what we experienced but I had absolutely no complaints. I also didn't have a real complaints about the Canadian system ONCE you got into the specialist or whoever you needed to see. Here it's the wait time to get into see someone which I feel is the biggest problem (doctor shortages)

In the US, healthcare is something you have to plan for and pay for through insurance. Much like car insurance in this country ~ if you will. The reason a lot of people in the US don't have coverage is that they choose not to for various reasons, being self employed, not able to afford it, just don't think they'll need it, prioritize other expenditures. There is a great divide about those who would like to rely on the government for "help" and those who want little goverment intervention.

Having said that - it is a difference of "paying up front" or "paying through taxes" like we do. (I hesitated as I wanted to write paying a enormous amount of taxes.....but we all know what I mean ) It also depends in the US how good your plan/insurance is. And you get what you pay for.

DH had an excellent plan through his work in the US. They deducted about $250 per month for healthcare and we did have a $300. family deductable. So we paid (but got some back through a flexplan) for the first $300. of visits and the rest was free. Think much like the dentist is here. Now, you may think - wow that's a lot of money but we did the math and based on the upfront cost in the US versus the amount of tax we pay, we are paying far more in Canada - but the difference is it's hidden.

Another difference was the quality of care and the availability of care.

We had absolutely no problem getting a family doctor and the kids went directly to a pediatician. They were available to us every time we called with no wait and even on Saturday. The offices were run like businesses and we very nice, clean and even had a "sick" waiting room and a "well" waiting room. (I know this may not be typical, but it was our experience)

We had to "beg" our DS's pediatrician in Canada to take us back to his now "closed' practice when we were stuck for a doctor, and 2yrs later the rest of the family have just now found a family doctor.

If you needed to see a specialist in the US - you could have your Doctor refer you or you could call yourself.

When you went to the doctor's for an appointment the wait time was very little, and I was given a sincere appology once because the Doctor kept me waiting for 15 minutes. Plus I was offered a coffee or cold beverage while waiting!

They had clinic's all over the place for after hours care if needed.

Our DD broke her arm the first week we arrived in the US. Our hospital experience was incredible with her seeing a Pediatric Orthopedist, no question. They took the Xrays and brought them back to the room in 10 minutes - start to finish. We didn't know you could do that!! We did see the bill, however and it cost about $2,500 to break an arm!! DH's healthcare paid for everything, plus followup visits - less $90. deductable.

I found the care we had was for the most part preventative. They were trying to keep you healthy and prevent things or catching problems early. Example, most plans pay for yearly Mamograms after 40 yrs for no history, here it's 50. You can get an MIR same day or hour. Here....well you all know.

Bottom line is that I was much more comfortable with the availbility of care we had or could get if needed. And I'm more than willing to pay for it if it is my health. This is why I'd like the option of a private system. I'd rather pay, then die waiting.

Back to the OP -

I was truly surprised by the number of posters that feel that a universal health care system would be a catastrophe

.

I didn't read the thread over at the CB, but my answer to this is because of the number of people a universal system would have to accomodate ~ 300 million+ It just couldn't sustain it without astromonical taxes.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

Bottom line is that I was much more comfortable with the availbility of care we had or could get if needed. And I'm more than willing to pay for it if it is my health. This is why I'd like the option of a private system. I'd rather pay, then die waiting. .

While I agree with you that I'd love the option of a private system (having experienced it myself in Australia...gotta love double beds in your maternity room so that your DH can sleep with you!), I still can't accept the idea that private care should REPLACE universal care. The plan you were on sounds wonderful, but the price you were paying seems very low compared to what most families pay (although in Australia, that's about what our costs were, but only because we were all under 40 and in good health). What happens to the self-employed or the disabled, however, if they have pre-existing conditions?

Back to the OP - .

I didn't read the thread over at the CB, but my answer to this is because of the number of people a universal system would have to accomodate ~ 300 million+ It just couldn't sustain it without astromonical taxes.

This doesn't make sense to me...while there would be more people using the system, would there not be an equal increase in the number of people paying taxes? And if there was a universal health care plan, wouldn't that reduce the amount many are paying in private plans?

 

[F4disneyfan]

I love our system and the only wait I have ever really had was to get into the Fowler Kennedy clinic at Western I was refered to other orthos but declined them just to go to the Fowler Kennedy. Yes it was a wait but one that was ultimatley well worth it to have the best orthos in Canada and possibly the word do the work on me. I have never waited more than a few days for my MRI appointments and often the day the Dr called I would call over and have my appointment that evening.

 

[ChisJo]

Working in our health care system, you obviously see room for improvement, and also how this system is completely taken advantage of. Although I agree that all humans should have access to universal health care, there are some aspects of our "free" health care (don't forget, we do pay for extra insurance and for health care, well, at least in our province we do, to an excess of over $60/month if you have additional coverage, plus don't forget the taxes we pay!!!) that is taken advantage of. I could list several examples, but I fear that it would cause a huge debate....

Now, knowing the waiting time to see some of the specialists in this province (don't know about other provinces), it is apauling, to say the least, that to wait 8 months to see a cardiologist just for a consultation is disgusting!! Or, to wait 2 years to get a hip/knee replacement, just to get bumped another 2 - 3 months the day before your surgery. Or having to turn people away from a bed in a hospital because there aren't any. Or waiting 20+ hours in an ER to even get seen and assessed! Or, being unable to find a GP because all the ones in the city are no longer taking any more patients!! The list goes on and on. At this point, I can see the need to have a privatized sector coming in to alleviate some of these things. Do I think it's fair that the insured will get the best health care (since obviously, there is much more money to be earned in a privatized system!!) - No, but would it alleviate some of the back flow from the universal system that is currently in practice - absolutely!! The unfortunate thing is, because of the income factor, the current health care system will then lose some of it's best physicians, surgeons, and nurses to go and work in the private sector.

Unfortunately, I do not believe in a complete privatized system as I believe all should have access to health care, despite their social status. I don't know the direction our health care system is heading towards, but I don't see it heading anywhere that will be pleasing to all as they really have to do something about the current situation. I personally, would pay whatever I needed to to get immediate medical services, especially if I was concerned about something - and having that immediate result would be nice as well....having to wait for months to get an appointment and then having to wait to get the results is VERY stressful and can do even more harm to your health.

Jo

 

[damo]

It seems like service depends on where you live which, I guess, is to be expected as not all areas are going to attract doctors.

In our experience, my mother received cataract surgery on both eyes within a month of diagnosis in the Lindsay, Ontario area. My father had skin cancer removed from his face the next week from diagnosis at the hospital in Peterborough. My mother in law had heart valve replacement within a month of diagnosis at a Hamilton hospital.

We've have been nothing but thrilled with the system.

 

[2forMe]

Seriously.. when I hear of my US friends how much they pay for their insurance.. I am happy with how things work in Canada. When I was in flroida a few years ago there was a waitress at one of the restaurants who I thought looked about 9 monhts pregnant.. not kidding she was huge. My in-laws were regulars at this restaurant and told me no she is not pregnant she has a tumor and has no money to have it removed. I was shocked and saddened. I think of how many people in the US who do not have the chance to have access to care..very saddening.
Yes I realize that I pay for my health care via my taxes.. but this way everyone gets access.. not debating the availability of the service here, but that everyone can access the care

 

[wee-haggis]

I'll take the public system any day.
Sure,it has its faults (wait times etc) but its sure a damn sight better than some of the poor folk in the US who litterally lose all their savings(and sometimes their house !) paying for the humunguous bills incurred by their kids or parents. i often wondered why there are so many OAP's working at WDW...not for the wages....but for the benefits(health care insurance)
Health care for all (rich and poor)should be a right...not a privilege.

 

[nosnobunny2006]

Seriously.. when I hear of my US friends how much they pay for their insurance.. I am happy with how things work in Canada. When I was in flroida a few years ago there was a waitress at one of the restaurants who I thought looked about 9 monhts pregnant.. not kidding she was huge. My in-laws were regulars at this restaurant and told me no she is not pregnant she has a tumor and has no money to have it removed. I was shocked and saddened. I think of how many people in the US who do not have the chance to have access to care..very saddening.
Yes I realize that I pay for my health care via my taxes.. but this way everyone gets access.. not debating the availability of the service here, but that everyone can access the care

Although I do not doubt what you're saying, there are public hospitals in the US where all have access to medical care. One of my DDs lives in S Florida. Several years ago, she came home to visit her grandmother who was in the chronic care wing of a local hospital and she was shocked at the condition of the place. She told us that the public hospitals in Florida were in better shape.

Don't kid yourself if you think you're not paying for your medical care. You just don't see it. When this same DD had her first baby, they got billed $7000. The next time I was into my GP for a checkup, I asked him about it. His response....."And what do you think it costs here? About the same." BTW, he has since closed his practice and moved to Tennessee.

Our local cancer support centre regularly refers its clients to US clinics to avoid the long line-ups for testing or treatment here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with my medical care. It just could be so much better.

Beth

 

[Perhillion]

Just graduated med school, did some electives in the USA, and, of course, did most of my training in Canada. If I had to pick one, I'd pick the US system. People just don't care in Canada about how much everything costs. I much prefer the US system.

 

[drag n' fly]

I will take universal health care anyday. Does it need improvements.... absolutely! The health care system in Alberta is in crisis mode and is one more reason not to move here. We may have a zero deficit in Alberta however that was at the expense of the taxpayers. Our schools are crumbling, highways full of potholes, health care is horrible. I do have one positive to say however. My Mom was recently diagnosed with herniated discs. From the time she seen a specialist to surgery was 5 weeks. A miracle by Alberta standards! The Government has recently injected money into back surgeries and knee and hip replacements to try and bring down the 9-12 month waiting time. Unprecedented growth has only benefitted one person...the land developers and they are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Perhillion]

If the incidence of obseity decreased, the need for joint replacement surgery would also decrease. The majority of the health care problems are self-inflicted and can be prevented.

 

[Yzma and Kronk]

BCDF - Thanks for the interesting discussion.

In response:

This doesn't make sense to me...while there would be more people using the system, would there not be an equal increase in the number of people paying taxes? And if there was a universal health care plan, wouldn't that reduce the amount many are paying in private plans?

The problem is that is it is so much more complicated than that. You would never be able to increase the taxes in the US in the amount that they would have to, to sustain the system. The US public wouldn't go for it. Part of the problem in the US is the Insurance companies (no surprise here - but that is another discussion)

Back to people who cannot afford coverage - in the state I lived in no one would ever be turned away for care. It was the law. It was explained to me that when we arrived at the hospital for our DD's arm, the hospital would charge the insurnace company the maximum allowable for everything, then they would have a "float" to cover those not insured. For example, if a band-aid costs 5 cents and the insurance would allow $5. (hypothetical example) they would charge the insurance $5. and put the $4.95 in a float to cover the uninsured. One of the problems in the US isn't affordable healthcare, but access to affordable insurance.

 

[damo]

Just graduated med school, did some electives in the USA, and, of course, did most of my training in Canada. If I had to pick one, I'd pick the US system. People just don't care in Canada about how much everything costs. I much prefer the US system.

From a doctor's point of view, you are obviously not alone in your preference.

 

[drag n' fly]

If the incidence of obseity decreased, the need for joint replacement surgery would also decrease. The majority of the health care problems are self-inflicted and can be prevented.

Interesting you brought that up. Just this week the Calgary Health Region announced they were going to select 100 people who meet their qualifications to have gastric bypass surgery and nutritional counselling and all costs would be covered. They feel it is an investment in the long run.
The biggest abuse of the system I see is people who are in emergency for non emergency reasons and people who are in emergency because they do not have a family doctor and believe for some reason they will recieve quicker service by going to emerg. than to a walk in clinic.

 

[ChisJo]

Absolutely!!! Alot of the medical problems that we do see are completely self inflicted and is costing Canadians Millions of dollars. In fact, many physicians here in Alberta are now refusing to see obese people (see article in Macleans magazine, Overeaters, smokers and drinkers: the doctor won't see you now, April 18, 2006). The sad thing is, alot of the non-self inflicted medical problems that need to be addressed are not covered by health care OR are waiting to see a specialist....So sad....To the previous poster who stated that many are going to the ER to get non-emergent medical treatment, I see it and compeletly agree with that statement - the sad truth is here is Alberta, there are no more GP's that are taking new patients and a growing population, people have to go somewhere.