OT - Can someone whose been through a separation tell me...

[Tiggerlovinggrandma]

if these items are covered during a separation. Daughter tells us today that she got legally separated last Tuesday. She says she and SIL sat down before SHE went to her attorney and settled on these items:

Visitation incl how son will spend his time when he goes to school in 3 years

Who is responciible for what credit cards, debt, medical bills, car, etc

Splitting of personal belongings such as furn, etc

Traveling or special events with son and how they will be handled.

To me it sounds more like they filed for divorce although perhaps I am wrong?
Daughter said she hired an attorney and paid the $100.00 fee herself. She says SIL wants to defend himself.

Since I have no idea how these things work, am looking for someone to tell me what's normal and what's not.

 

[stacy6552]

oops...trying to delete this post but can't sorry...just keep reading

 

[stacy6552]

It varies by state, but I suspect that she is on track. The state usually requires a period of time of seperation when children are involved. So they have to be apart, but they can draw up a settlement agreement at any time. So if she's got a signed agreement, then she should be in good shape, but it will probably be amended over to course of the seperation. Now a judge could overrule items where the kids are involved, but that usually only when there is disagreement of some kind. Now if she's got an agreement that works for her, she needs to remember that they are still married and things like post seperation adultry can blow the whole thing, so she needs to be smart and tread carefully until the divorce is final.

 

[badblackpug]

if these items are covered during a separation. Daughter tells us today that she got legally separated last Tuesday. She says she and SIL sat down before SHE went to her attorney and settled on these items:

Visitation incl how son will spend his time when he goes to school in 3 years

Who is responciible for what credit cards, debt, medical bills, car, etc

Splitting of personal belongings such as furn, etc

Traveling or special events with son and how they will be handled.

To me it sounds more like they filed for divorce although perhaps I am wrong?
Daughter said she hired an attorney and paid the $100.00 fee herself. She says SIL wants to defend himself.

Since I have no idea how these things work, am looking for someone to tell me what's normal and what's not.

Yes, this sounds right. Usually if both parties are in agreement, then it is usually settles that way. The one point that won't stick is #1. If your grandson doesn't start school for three years, I doubt that any agreement made now will stick. Judges are VERY reluctant to remove children from their primary residence/home. SO if there are changes there it will easily be overturned when it comes time for him to go to school. I think I remember you saying in a previous post that their agreement, as of now, is that the child will spend most of his time with his father, then live with his mother when he goes to school. Most likely that will be overturned, so as not to disrupt the child's routine or home.

Question her about the attorney. $100 is ridiculously low. I think my initial fee was $1800.

 

[disneymarie]

I am sure if she is seeing an attorney that they will explain to her that while that is household items they have nothing to do legally with the child support and visitation. I have seen too many times that women want to not make waves and keep things civil only to get screwed by a failure of the ex to maintain their agreement and she has no legal means to enforce it.

Even a seperation needs the court to agree to the child support amount, any alimony pendenta, pending a divorce, and visitation. That way it is a breach in a court order and enforceable.

Other wise from my experiance the man will do alright a few weeks, gets behind, starts barginning and not even show up or return child as agreed. The court document is her only means to protect herself.

Something is awful agreeable with your sil. for now.......He just wants a break and it is easy to walk out. tough to part with the money or be told when to visit and return child.....
They hate the woman having the control and abuse it.
I was in the enforcement system for 25 years and nothing is new to me with the situations. No matter how amicable they start.

Get an agreement! You do not need an attorney and can go to the courthouse family court and ask for custodial and support hearing ASAP.
Dianne

 

[Tiggerlovinggrandma]

Daughter and SIL have agreed to NO alimony for DD and NO child support. Their reasoning is she will seek no alimony if he takes majority of the debt that HE incurred. Se is to take over 2 credit cards and her medical bills. As for child support they have agreed to split child visitation up as such: 3 days at daddy's, 3 days at mommy's and 1 day with us each week. Vacations, holidays and specail events are negotitionable. So SIL says no child support, they will each pay for their days with him. Sounds to me like SIL is getting away with a lot but maybe that is just me. Would like to hear from others on what they think??

 

[disneymarie]

You dd needs to wake up and know this is not going to work. If it is not written down it is not going to happen. If he fails to live up to his part SHE will STILL have half the debt. and no alimony either.

The child is entitled to support, it is not their call. There may be other sources that will require her to have support agreement.

She SHOULD ASAP get herself with or without an attorney to the family court and write their agreement to a Judge to approve.

BUT the child will get support one way or another, it has nothing to do with the parents financial situation,

The 50/50 loose visiting, will never fly. As time goes by it will be abused.

It cost nothing to get to the court and have an agreement.....Agreements can always be modifed, to have NONE is foolish.I hope she heeds the advice.
Dianne

 

[Floridagal23]

Depending on what state you live in, you may be required to live apart for 1 year pursuant to a formal separation agreement unless you have other "grounds" for divorce. This is a very state specific thing.

Each party should absolutely have their own counsel in reviewing and signing the separation agreement.

The things that you mentioned are all standard to be covered in a separation agreement.

A separation agreement is not a divorce, but often times, can be incorporated into the settlement agreement if both parties are agreeable to the terms of the agreement.

 

[Darcy03231]

You dd needs to wake up and know this is not going to work. If it is not written down it is not going to happen. If he fails to live up to his part SHE will STILL have half the debt. and no alimony either.

The child is entitled to support, it is not their call. There may be other sources that will require her to have support agreement.

She SHOULD ASAP get herself with or without an attorney to the family court and write their agreement to a Judge to approve.

BUT the child will get support one way or another, it has nothing to do with the parents financial situation,

The 50/50 loose visiting, will never fly. As time goes by it will be abused.

It cost nothing to get to the court and have an agreement.....Agreements can always be modifed, to have NONE is foolish.I hope she heeds the advice.
Dianne

Actually, my ex and I have shared custody of our children and it can work, if both parents are commited to making it work. We were divorced when the kids were 2 and 4 and they're now 17 (almost 18) and 15 (almost 16) so I'd say we've been successful so far. Neither one of us pays child support to the other. He buys what the kids need at his house and I buy what they need at our house. We split expenses like uninsured medical, prescriptions, and out of the ordinary stuff like school expenses, extra-curricular expenses, driver's ed, prom expenses, car insurance, car repairs, etc. We both agree on what the expenses will be before they're incurred (other than necessary medical/dental), such as we both agreed we'd contribute a maximum $75 each toward DD's prom dress/shoes for a total of $150.00 and then I took her out shopping (she ended up spending less). We both turn any expenses we've paid for 100% over to the other on the 1st of each month and then whoever owes the other reimburses within a week. Its worked for us. Our children have never gone without anything necessary. Our agreement is if we don't agree on something and one parent signs the kids up they pay for it 100%. The only time this has ever happened with us is with dance. DD and DS wanted to dance competitively. My ex looked at the expense (and trust me it's expensive) and said he just couldn't afford to do it. I decided to go ahead with it and I pay for it. He's helped out occasionally when he can, it just doesn't fit into his budget. I'm remarried and our household income is much higher than his and I felt I could absorb the cost of it and have. So it can work, if the parents respect each other and make a sincere effort to make it work.

 

[TallDaddy]

I think the original posters question was whether what they were doing was a divorce agreement, or merely a separation one.

What they did sounds very much like a separation agreement. If they are not living together anymore, it is best to enter into such an agreement, have a lawyer review for them and also sign off on it. It is best to have as much details as possible agreed and negotiated upon with the separation, possibly both a financial settlement (which deals with asset splitup, future payments, alimony, child support, future costs like education, children camps and programs etc).....and a parenting plan (dealing with kids schedules and timetables, where they are to be on which holidays, pickup and dropoff logistics).

After that they can separate and live apart, and then if they do decide to go through with the split year or two later, it becomes more of a formality to get the divorce pushed through.

If they have the whole financial and kids stuff still hanging over their heads throughout the separation it will make things way more tense and stressful, and less of a chance of reconciliation IMHO. Also will then have much more difficult time if divorce proceedings also have to deal with all that stuff too.

 

[micheleq]

I've read your other posts on this topic and BRAVO to your DD for getting a lawyer.

However, you said previously that SIL was going to be leaving soon for National Guard duty -- what happens to your DGS then? DD will have him all the time, so she should be receiving child support.

My cousin has an ex who in 12 years has never paid his child support or for the health insurance he was supposed to be providing for his daughters. She just let him get away with it. Do not let SIL get off so easy, you've said yourself that he doesn't seem that interested in DGS.

Good luck to your DD and DGS

 

[cglaura]

Daughter and SIL have agreed to NO alimony for DD and NO child support. Their reasoning is she will seek no alimony if he takes majority of the debt that HE incurred. Se is to take over 2 credit cards and her medical bills. As for child support they have agreed to split child visitation up as such: 3 days at daddy's, 3 days at mommy's and 1 day with us each week. Vacations, holidays and specail events are negotitionable. So SIL says no child support, they will each pay for their days with him. Sounds to me like SIL is getting away with a lot but maybe that is just me. Would like to hear from others on what they think??

Are the debts that he incurred in his name only? Is her name anywhere on them? Is it on her credit report? If so, they'll come after her regardless of what is in a divorce agreement. She maybe able to get it worked out in the end, but it will be more lawyer bills and a credit rating mess until she does. Though everthing sounds great & worked out now, you just never know. He could lose a job, etc.

What about college? We had it written who would be paying for that as well.

I also had it written into our agreement that we each had to have a certain amount of life insurance until dd was 18.

I'm kind of conflicted to the way the days are split up. That is alot of shuffling around for a kid. But, I don't know the specifics of the family dynamics, so it might work for her kids. But something to think about. Maybe put in a clause that visitation can be re-visited after a set trial period amount of time, just so nothing is locked in if it doesn't work out.

I realize this is probably more for the divorce agreement...just stuff to think on.

 

[micheleq]

As for child support they have agreed to split child visitation up as such: 3 days at daddy's, 3 days at mommy's and 1 day with us each week. Vacations, holidays and specail events are negotitionable. So SIL says no child support, they will each pay for their days with him. Sounds to me like SIL is getting away with a lot but maybe that is just me. Would like to hear from others on what they think??

Who pays on the days he spends with you? You aren't the one getting divorced here. You might want to suggest that the agreement say she has her son for 4 days, and take you out of the equation -- even if he is with you one day. I'm not a lawyer, but the custody agreement should be about the two parents. And if your DD has him more than 50% of the time, she should be entitled to child support.

Again, good luck to you and your DD.

 

[badblackpug]

Daughter and SIL have agreed to NO alimony for DD and NO child support. Their reasoning is she will seek no alimony if he takes majority of the debt that HE incurred. Se is to take over 2 credit cards and her medical bills. As for child support they have agreed to split child visitation up as such: 3 days at daddy's, 3 days at mommy's and 1 day with us each week. Vacations, holidays and specail events are negotitionable. So SIL says no child support, they will each pay for their days with him. Sounds to me like SIL is getting away with a lot but maybe that is just me. Would like to hear from others on what they think??

It varies from state to state, but generally if the parents have 50/50 custody there is no child support. With alimony, here, you have to be married greater than 5 years to receive alimony, and that is only if your spouse makes significantly more money. So that sounds equitable. If the debt is his and in his name only, and was incurred prior to the marriage, then he will be responsible. If the debt is in any way in her name, or incurred during the marriage they will probably both be responsible, unless he agrees to pay.

 

[Tiggerlovinggrandma]

OK,so I spoke to my daughter yesterday after she returned from her attorney to finalize the separation documents. DD hired an attorney last week and will be the one who will file for divorce since she was the one that moved out according to her attorney. In NC they must wait one year from the time they separate which was on January 26th. SIL will represent himself. I asked her if this was a done deal. Her answer was: Mom, we just don't fit. Nothing has changed not even slightly. He is just as irresponcible with the relationship, finances, personal responciblities, the house, and their son as he has been. She said they rushed into a relationhip way too quickly and did not really know each other. They got pregnant and tried to make things work but she realizes it won't unless he is willing to work at it too and he just doesn't think he needs too. She says she deserves someone that she wants to kiss everyday, that will hold her in his arms each night, someone who can man up and be responcible for his family, his home and his life and SIL is just not that man. She says she knows this will be difficult on her son but staying in a love less marraige would be harder for him.


So here is what they have agreed to:[/B]
They will continue to seek counseling so they can learn to handle working with each other for their son's sake.

Each week: DD will have son 3 nights, SIL will have him 3 nights. The extra night is up for grabs but will usually be spent with us unless one of them have plans with him. When child goes to school in 3 years, DD will get son 5 nights a week and SIL will have son on weekends.

For holidays they will split them each 50/50. For ex: on Thanksgiving, son will have breakfast with his dad and his family and dinner with his mom and her family. Birthdays will be spent as they are now as a joint family venture.

Specail events and vacations will be divided as needed

All travel with son must be pre-approved

DD will take over 2 credit cards and her medical bills.

SIL has to refinance their car which is in both names now so he can put it in his name OR sell it.

SIL gets the house which he purchased before the marriage and also since he is taking over most of HIS debt.

DD will get all son's personal items including his furniture, clothing, toys, books, DVD's, etc that HER family has given them.

They will divide other items aquired in the marraiage equally and take with them each of their OWN persomal items that they brought into the marriage.

There will be no alimony.

There will be no child support. They have agreed to pay for their son's clothing, food and necessaties on their given nights with son and split 50/50 child's medical, dental, insurance, education, activity fees such as sports, clubs, prom, graduation and college, etc

When SIL is off in National Guard, DD will work out a manageble arrangement for son utilizing both sets of grandparents as much as possible. .

The families and themselves are to work together in as much harmony as possible for their son.


Well that is about it. DH and I think it sounds like a workable agreement but will it end up that way is anybody's guess. It is sad for us as we hoped they would be able to work things out and make a happy home for thier son. I guess that's not the case so we will have to adjust to what is for our DGS sake and make the best of the situation. We can't control others. All DH and I can do is make sure when DGS is with us he is happy, provided for, safe and secure. We will also pray that if and when DD and SIL find someone else, that they truly, truly use their heads and not just their heats to make sure that person is a good fit for them and most importantly their son.
Separation and divorce sucks!

 

[badblackpug]

Yep, gotta agree with you, it sucks. I'd like to offer a few tips, from a "been there done, that." Alternate holidays. For example this year for Thanksgiving breakfast at dad's, dinner at mom's, and next year vice/versa. That way it will be equitable about the big things, like Thanksgiving dinner and Xmas morning. Like this year Xmas eve and morning at mom's dinner at dad's, and then reverse it for the next year. As grandma, try to have a good relationship, or at least an amicable one, with your ex son in law. It is very hard on a child when they know that family doesn't like their mom or dad, even if you never say it aloud, they know. Have a sit down with him, without your daughter, talk and try to get on even ground. It will be important to your grandson. Everybody needs to BE FLEXIBLE. Also, when your son goes to school, because your daughter will then become the primary residence, she should seek child support at that time, after all, she will have to provide for the majority of expenses. Child support is designed to cover food and housing as well as other expenses.

Actually, your grandson is very young, and may not be as effected by this as an older child. He may grow up feeling that this is just his normal situation, that mom and dad aren't married, and as long as everyone works hard to make it the best possible situation for him, he will be all right. It is better to have 2 happy, separated parents, than 2 married miserable, or fighting parents.

Good luck to you all!