OT: Am I the only one who makes my kids sit in the back seat of the car??

[nchulka]

Why are you so obsessed with not utilizing common sense and entirely reasonable precautions to keep your children safe? First you also oppose bike helmets? Then you plan to send your son off to the military? And now you don't want them to even ride inside the car or ride safely in the back seat? When your daughter's face is smashed or her neck is snapped by an airbag, will you feel guilty? Seriously, I find your positions so bizarre as to border on the surreal. Yes, people did things back in the day that we now know were not wise. And the children who didn't survive are not here to tell you how foolish your actions are on behalf of your children. Why do you want to actively put your children in harm's way?

I am trying to restore some common sense, people have taken "safety" to ridiculous levels. America in 2012 is so safe that people have to invent things to be afraid of, things that have such a small risk of actually happening. We live in the safest time period ever in history so now we create fear of ridiculous things like drop side cribs, unbuckling our seatbelts for a second, letting a 5 year old play in the front yard alone. I don't have my kids wear bike helmets, they're totally silly for little kids on subdivision sidewalks! If my kids were teens or adults and were serious cyclists on busy roads and at high speeds then yes wearing a helmet would be appropriate. A 6 year old biking on a sidewalk in a quiet subdivision, ridiculous! I did say (on another thread) that I will encourage my son to join the military and you are saying that that is lacking common sense and not caring for my children's safety?? WOW!!

 

[pacrosby]

eta: a couple of hours ago to my surprise, while driving about (with my seatbelt on ) I actually saw a man with a little boy on the back of his motorcycle....maybe 8 or 9 years old. Yup, it's legal. And you guys are worried about 3 minutes without a seatbelt in car.... lol

 

[lucifie]

Everyone always throws around this 8 years AND 80 pounds. It is 8 years OR 80 pounds, big difference! They do this so that a 7 year old who weighs 90 pounds isn't still being crammed into a seat that's too small for them jsut because they aren't 8 yet. Once you are 8 you don't have to be in a booster anymore, you do NOT have to wait until they are 80 pounds also. I literally would have still been in a booster in 8th grade if that was the case! DD 10 is only 65 pounds, we are small people. That is why the law has an age and a weight limit, a child only has to hit 1 not both!

In MD they recently changed the law and it's 8 years old, period. It doesn't matter if the kid is over 80 lb (it used to be 8 or 80 lb). My 88 lb 9 year old is still in a booster that accommodates a child to 120 lb, I think. Most boosters on the market go up to 90 or 100 lb so an older child in a booster is most likely not crammed into a seat that's too small.

 

[lucifie]

That's very noble of you. We feel perfectly safe in our convertible when we have no choice but to take it with a child (not baby/toddler/preschooler) on board. I'll also take my chances that an impact at 3 miles an hour in a parking lot will not cause significant bodily harm. Or that the 5 seconds my kids or I are unbucked will not result in death and dismemberment. Are you trying to tell me that you pull over so that Junior can lean over and get something that he can't reach. I call BS

My kids just wait until our next stop if they drop something. I don't ever allow them to unbuckle while we're driving, even for a few seconds.

There's a good chance that there won't be an accident in the few seconds your kid is unbuckled, but just over a year ago my parents were in a serious accident that almost killed my mom. They were wearing their seat belts and the airbags deployed. I can guarantee that if you had asked my dad 5 seconds before the accident happened he would have said he wasn't expecting it. He was riving on the interstate and out of nowhere the other car crossed the median right in front of him. If they weren't wearing their seat belts they'd probably be dead. Maybe I'm more sensitive to these things now, but you just never know when something could happen.

 

[chimpwars]

Everyone always throws around this 8 years AND 80 pounds. It is 8 years OR 80 pounds, big difference! They do this so that a 7 year old who weighs 90 pounds isn't still being crammed into a seat that's too small for them jsut because they aren't 8 yet. Once you are 8 you don't have to be in a booster anymore, you do NOT have to wait until they are 80 pounds also. I literally would have still been in a booster in 8th grade if that was the case! DD 10 is only 65 pounds, we are small people. That is why the law has an age and a weight limit, a child only has to hit 1 not both!

actually each state has their own law. Michigan has no weight requirement to graduate from a booster, it is age/height.

My child will be in a booster until she outgrows it per the manufacturer. I don't care what others think, she's my child and I am in charge of keeping her safe.

 

[pacrosby]

My kids just wait until our next stop if they drop something. I don't ever allow them to unbuckle while we're driving, even for a few seconds.

There's a good chance that there won't be an accident in the few seconds your kid is unbuckled, but just over a year ago my parents were in a serious accident that almost killed my mom. They were wearing their seat belts and the airbags deployed. I can guarantee that if you had asked my dad 5 seconds before the accident happened he would have said he wasn't expecting it. He was riving on the interstate and out of nowhere the other car crossed the median right in front of him. If they weren't wearing their seat belts they'd probably be dead. Maybe I'm more sensitive to these things now, but you just never know when something could happen.

You are absolutely right but we could come up with a hundred scenarios just like that. Including people who have probably died because they WERE wearing their seatbelt. I simply can't live my life trying to keep every unlikely situation from happening. I just try to be smart while not letting the fear of the unlikely rule my life.

 

[WDmommyof4]

The warning sign in the front of our van says the airbag and kill children under 12. So, the only one allowed to sit in the front is my 12 year old. The others are all in the back and my 7 year old is still in a booster seat.

Also, if I was going to wait for my kids to be 80 lbs. before taking them out of a booster my 12 year old 6th grader would still be in one along with all my other boys and would probably be near high school before they got out of one. I have bottomless pit children who eat everything and gain nothing LOL.

 

[dja14]

I made my kids ride in a booster seat until they were so tall that their head was above the head rest and shoulders completely over the seat back. Before that they road in five point car seats until they were hanging out of them. All three were out of booster seats before the age of the law. Sitting to where the head rest is below the head has to be unsafe. They were so tall though they were all adult size really and the seatbelt fit them well.

But all had to ride in the backseat until they were tall enough and heavy enough to not set off the air bag sensor in the front. For our youngest that day finally came this summer. She is almost 11 and is about 5'8", around 135 maybe? The boys probably would have been younger (both are near 6 ft, one 13 and one 15) but I wanted to put it off as long as I could (because now they 'call it' or fuss over it, so they still end up in the back a lot)

I too see folks riding around with kids hanging all over. Not to mention how dangerous it is for the kids, I can't believe they can drive like that, I try and stay way back from them. I have enough trouble with kids yelling, let alone crawling all over.

 

[Tiger926]

I mentioned this above, but not sure if people actually saw it, that front seat rules changed this year, and it is now 13 and under are to sit in the back seat.

You may check a multitude of websites for this info: CDC, Transport Canada, Health Canada, AAA/CAA, etc.

Some responses on here actually make my head hurt...kids not wearing seat belts, kids not wearing helmets, etc...I didn't realize that there are moms on here who have ESP or who can control the universe in order to keep accidents from happening to their kids.

Would love to have those powers, but alas, I do not, so I must put my children in the back seat, car seats and helmets in order to protect them from potential harm. Considering that I live in one of the worst areas for car accidents (highest car insurance) and we do a lot of road trips, I am ok with this!

Tiger

 

[pacrosby]

I mentioned this above, but not sure if people actually saw it, that front seat rules changed this year, and it is now 13 and under are to sit in the back seat.

You may check a multitude of websites for this info: CDC, Transport Canada, Health Canada, AAA/CAA, etc.

Some responses on here actually make my head hurt...kids not wearing seat belts, kids not wearing helmets, etc...I didn't realize that there are moms on here who have ESP or who can control the universe in order to keep accidents from happening to their kids.

Would love to have those powers, but alas, I do not, so I must put my children in the back seat, car seats and helmets in order to protect them from potential harm. Considering that I live in one of the worst areas for car accidents (highest car insurance) and we do a lot of road trips, I am ok with this!

Tiger

Are those 'rules' or 'recommendations'? Because there is a big difference.

And fwiw it's not about having ESP..it's about assessing risk. Almost everything that you do involves an element of risk. Everything. Obviously you are not comfortable with certain risks that others are. Fair enough. We all get to make our own decisions.



Just out of curiosity: I know a lot of grown adults who are shorter and lighter than 11/12/13 yo children. Doesn't this make some of those who are so hung up on 'age' stop and pause. Would you make your adult friends sit in the back seat if they were petite? Maybe Little People shouldn't be allowed to drive or sit in the passenger seat. Some things boil down to using alittle common sense. But hey, do whatever makes you feel better with your own kids.....just please don't overstate the risks in order to make yourself look 'right' and others 'wrong'.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

I am trying to restore some common sense, people have taken "safety" to ridiculous levels. America in 2012 is so safe that people have to invent things to be afraid of, things that have such a small risk of actually happening. We live in the safest time period ever in history so now we create fear of ridiculous things like drop side cribs, unbuckling our seatbelts for a second, letting a 5 year old play in the front yard alone. I don't have my kids wear bike helmets, they're totally silly for little kids on subdivision sidewalks! If my kids were teens or adults and were serious cyclists on busy roads and at high speeds then yes wearing a helmet would be appropriate. A 6 year old biking on a sidewalk in a quiet subdivision, ridiculous! I did say (on another thread) that I will encourage my son to join the military and you are saying that that is lacking common sense and not caring for my children's safety?? WOW!!

Do you honestly not see the connection between the precautions we take today and the fact that we are statistically safer in those very areas that we are taking precautions? The fact that we have fewer head injuries from bike accidents because kids wear helmets? The fact that fewer children are injured by unsafe cribs because they were taken off the market? The fact that fewer children are killed and injured by airbag deployments because fewer children are being hit by airbags because they are in the back seat? The fact that we watch our children as helping to prevent them from being exploited? If you cannot extrapolate that logic and see the extraordinarily high causation and correlation, then you should not engage in this discussion because you are clearly only looking at half of the balance sheet, and that is sloppy accounting.

And yes, I see encouraging children to join the military, rather than encouraging them to follow their dreams, as not caring for their safety, much less supporting their ability to dream for themselves. I'd never encourage, or support, my child joining the military, but clearly we have different value systems. I'd like to see the military dramatically reduced, and dreaming of my child joining the military is anathema to my values.

 

[dja14]

I just saw the comments about bike helmets and would like to add that once you see a 5 yr old with permanent brain damage from wrecking her bike in front of her house on a subdivision sidewalk, you make you kids wear a helmet for all biking and roller skating. It doesn't take much for a concussion or cracked skull. That little girls father will never get over that because he thought it was no big deal, he was out there, etc. The chances are small yes, but wearing one is really not that big of deal but the injuries are.

 

[4HppyCamprs]

That's very noble of you. We feel perfectly safe in our convertible when we have no choice but to take it with a child (not baby/toddler/preschooler) on board. I'll also take my chances that an impact at 3 miles an hour in a parking lot will not cause significant bodily harm. Or that the 5 seconds my kids or I are unbucked will not result in death and dismemberment. Are you trying to tell me that you pull over so that Junior can lean over and get something that he can't reach. I call BS

Your right I don't pull over. I tell them sorry they dropped it and they have to wait til the next stop. I'm not noble. I have just heard and read all the headlines where some fool who thought "it won't happen to me, end up with "it" happening to them. My dh is one who has to tell parents in accidents that "it wasn't their fault" when sometimes it is.

 

[pacrosby]

I just saw the comments about bike helmets and would like to add that once you see a 5 yr old with permanent brain damage from wrecking her bike in front of her house on a subdivision sidewalk, you make you kids wear a helmet for all biking and roller skating. It doesn't take much for a concussion or cracked skull. That little girls father will never get over that because he thought it was no big deal, he was out there, etc. The chances are small yes, but wearing one is really not that big of deal but the injuries are.

Ok...let's run with this one. What about the person who knows someone who died because they were wearing a seatbelt (and yes it does happen...car fire, car underwater). Does this person now say that no one should wear seatbelts because of this very slight chance?

I used to work in a head injury facility. I've seen children suffer life changing head traumas from falling down the stairs. Should we make kids wear helmets in their houses? Ban families with young children from houses with stairs?

It sounds so ridiculous doesn't it, but we can come up with a million scenarios just like these. Is this how you want to make your decisions? May as well wrap yourself in a bubble.

 

[4HppyCamprs]

You wouldn't happen to be posting this while driving would you?

Seriously. No. My husband is a paramedic/firefighter. Everyday he is pulling somebody from a accident or some other tragedy. I do the best I can everyday for my children so that in the event something did happen I could live with knowing I did my best to keep them safe.

Texting and driving is a problem here 785 people killed on the expressway at latest count. The other day I drove the tollway to school (mine) and a man was reading the newspaper at 70 miles per hour!

 

[Missy13d69]

Do you honestly not see the connection between the precautions we take today and the fact that we are statistically safer in those very areas that we are taking precautions? The fact that we have fewer head injuries from bike accidents because kids wear helmets? The fact that fewer children are injured by unsafe cribs because they were taken off the market? The fact that fewer children are killed and injured by airbag deployments because fewer children are being hit by airbags because they are in the back seat? The fact that we watch our children as helping to prevent them from being exploited? If you cannot extrapolate that logic and see the extraordinarily high causation and correlation, then you should not engage in this discussion because you are clearly only looking at half of the balance sheet, and that is sloppy accounting.

The simple logic of cause and effect.

 

[4HppyCamprs]

Yes, of course I do, and as hard as it may be for many here to believe (although probably not hard for the majority of the public) I'm okay with it.

I'm actually not so sure that the risk of something happening in that 3 seconds is any greater than the risk that I will careen off the roadway into a riverway and my kids will drown because they can't undo their seatbelts fast enough....or the risk that the car catches fire and they panic and can't get out. Hey, everything's possible.

Or the chance that I will suffer severe cervical spinal injuries as a direct result of wearing a seatbelt during a minor fender bender (my chiropractor used to love to cite the statistics on that). Actually according to him the risk of that isn't all that slight.

But I was actually thinking back to the poster who called me out initially for not making sure my kids are securely buckled in before pulling out of a parking spot because of the possiblity that an accident "might" happen in the parking lot where I'm traveling less than 5 miles an hour. Really? How exactly do you get from the store to the car? Do you fly? Do you go yourself and then pull up to the curb to gather up your children lest someone come flying through the parking lot and run them over? Maybe you all wear a suitful of armor....you know, just in case. Do I sound ridiculous? No more ridiculous than some of this sounds to me.

Do people who are so afraid of these miniscule risks take walks along roadways? Or bike ride along a roadway? Because you do know of course that you could get hit by a wayward car?

Do your kids wear helmets in the house or at the playground? Because they could suffer life threatening head injuries from falling down the stairs or off the jungle gym (I know, I used to work in a head injury facility and the freak accidents that ended up in severe head trauma were not few and far between).

I can think of things we all engage in every single day that hold greater risk than undoing a seatbelt for 3 seconds. Personally I think people have lost all sense of perspective.

I use my head and I wear my seatbelt, and so do my kids. But I also am not so freakishly worried that I will not leave the parking spot until the seatback is forward, tray tables up, and the seatbelt locked in tight. I also don't worry about 3 seconds to retrieve an object. That is freakishly obsessive to me and I simply don't choose to live my life that way.

Actually I did not truly call you out as I was trying to be polite but yes I do think your negligent and no I don't safety pad my children but yes I know and obey my states laws and yes I protect my kids by making them sit in back and wear their seatbelts and buying carseats that fit them.

Only you know if you can live with yourself if something happens and you were only doing the bare minimum required to get from point A to point B because honestly you seem like a bare minimum type.

 

[pacrosby]

Actually I did not truly call you out as I was trying to be polite but yes I do think your negligent and no I don't safety pad my children but yes I know and obey my states laws and yes I protect my kids by making them sit in back and wear their seatbelts and buying carseats that fit them.

Only you know if you can live with yourself if something happens and you were only doing the bare minimum required to get from point A to point B because honestly you seem like a bare minimum type.

Not at all. You've taken a simple admission on my part about how I have allowed my kids to do "this and that" on occasion and turned it into some sort of grand statement about my parenting skills (in your words "the bare minimum type"). Utter nonsense. I do obey the seat belt laws. My kids use seatbelts. My 9 yo was in a full back car seat until last year because he is small for his age. My 7 and 9 yo do not sit in the front seat of the Expedition, only in the convertible when it is absolutely unavoidable, which isn't very often. My 11 and 12 yo's on the other hand are bigger than many adults so saying that is somehow "unsafe" is pretty ridiculous. I have no awareness of any law that specifically states that you are absolutely unable to unhook your seatbelt for even 3 seconds to pick up something that is out of reach (common sense safey recommendation if you are the driver yes, passenger? no). There is also no law that prohibits my children from riding in the front seat when necessary. Bottom line is that I never said anything about not believing in seatbelts. I simply put the risk of those things people were getting up in arms about in perspective.

But since the risk of what could happen in that 3 seconds is of such a great concern to you I must ask........do your kids wear helmets in the house and at the playground? It would be much safer for them you know, and not a significant bother if you just made it part of their daily uniform (and just think of the injuries that could be prevented if that became a law). Do you keep your kids from climbing trees? Off of trampolines? I'm sure you do. Do you prohibit them from walking/jogging/biking alongside any kind of roadway? If not you should. I hope they don't ski. Or snowboard. Or play football. And I certainly wouldn't recommend they do gymnastics. Or cheerleading. Lots of risks involved in all of that. Playing ice hockey is very dangerous, even with all of that protective gear. Boating has resulted in many drownings from what I read in the news. I personally know someone who fell off of a porch and died so you should probably make sure your kids don't hang out on porches. And surfers sometimes get eaten by sharks. I could go on and on and I'm sure you're none to happy with me now but I'm trying to make a point. Life is full of risks....and I have no doubt that you do things everyday that are much riskier than my decision to occasionally allow a child to unhook their seatbelt for 3 seconds to retrieve a pencil. Does that make you a negligent parent? Of course not. Neither am I

 

[4HppyCamprs]

Not at all. You've taken a simple admission on my part about how I have allowed my kids to do "this and that" on occasion and turned it into some sort of grand statement about my parenting skills (in your words "the bare minimum type"). Utter nonsense. I do obey the seat belt laws. My kids use seatbelts. My 9 yo was in a full back car seat until last year (because he is small for his age). I have no awareness of any law that specifically states that you are absolutely unable to unhook your seatbelt for even 3 seconds to pick up something that is out of reach (unless perhaps you are the driver). There is also no law that prohibits my children from riding in the front seat when necessary. I never said anything about not believing in seatbelts. I simply put the risk of those things people were getting up in arms about in perspective.

So...do your kids wear helmets in the house and at the playground? It would be much safer for them you know, and not a significant bother....just make it part of their daily uniform right? Just think of the injuries that could be prevented if that became a law. Do you keep your kids from climbing trees? Off of trampolines? I'm sure. Make sure they don't walk/jog/bike alongside a roadway. They probably shouldn't ski. Or snowboard. Or play football. And I certainly wouldn't recommend they do gymnastics. Or cheerleading. Lots of risks involved in all of that. Playing ice hockey is very dangerous, even with all of that protective gear. Boating has resulted in many drownings. I know someone who fell off of a porch and died so you should probably make sure your kids don't hang out on porches. I could go on and on. Life is full of risks....and I have no doubt that you do things everyday that are much riskier than my decision to occasionally allow a child to unhook their seatbelt for 3 seconds to retrieve a pencil. Does that make you a negligent parent? Of course not. And neither am I

Have a good night. Again only you and your children live with yourself and your choices. I hope that is a safe as they can be and that nobody lives to regret the choices they make. Again I am not perfect nor noble but I know I can live with the consequences of the choices I make. I stand by that I would never make the same choices as you in the situations you have listed.

 

[bdklein]

Seriously. No. My husband is a paramedic/firefighter. Everyday he is pulling somebody from a accident or some other tragedy. I do the best I can everyday for my children so that in the event something did happen I could live with knowing I did my best to keep them safe.

Texting and driving is a problem here 785 people killed on the expressway at latest count. The other day I drove the tollway to school (mine) and a man was reading the newspaper at 70 miles per hour!

I was only going 68!!!