OT: Am I a Bad Catholic?

[jcc0621]

I consider myself a "recovering Catholic".

OMG my DH says this all the time and his name is Jim too

 

[micheleq]

You're not a bad Catholic at all! No meat during Lent is more historical than religious as a PP said.

Talk about a bad Catholic, I am getting my taxes done by my Jewish accountant this Sunday! I think that puts me ahead of you in line for bad Catholic of the week

 

[princessmom29]

You're not a bad Catholic at all! No meat during Lent is more historical than religious as a PP said.

Talk about a bad Catholic, I am getting my taxes done by my Jewish accountant this Sunday! I think that puts me ahead of you in line for bad Catholic of the week

Why??? Aren't we taught as christians to love and accept everyone??

 

[princessmom29]

I don't want to change churches. I am proud to be Catholic and I couldn't imaging being anywhere else. It's just where I fit in. It just when it comes to no meat on Fridays I just don't want to do it. I don't really have a reason. I would much rather go out of my way to do nice things for people then not eat meat on friday.

That is a good idea. For me at least lent is about making a sacrifice of some sort that has meaning specifically for you.

 

[momo3hods]

Fasting, then, is abstinence from such
nourishments as these, which were permitted for the support of
bodily strength. And firstly, it consists in abstinence from
flesh-meat, because this food was given to man by God out of
condescension to his weakness, and not as one absolutely essential
for the maintenance of life. Its privation, greater or less
according to the regulations of the Church, is essential to the
very notion of fasting. For many centuries eggs and milk-meats
were not allowed, because they come under the class of animal
food; even to this day they are forbidden in the eastern
Churches.


Here is the religious reason for abstaining from meat on Fridays. Taken from http://www.ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/HISTLENT.TXT

I agree, you need to be introspective on your personal relationship with God and confess to your priest for the answer to your question. I can't imagine you will have too much penance for your 'sins'.....

 

[roysbrew]

You are not a bad Catholic.

But your reasoning for not eating meat suggests you are missing the meaning of Lent. I also don't always give up things for Lent. The Church does say that acts of Charity are acceptable. I think doing something for another is equal to giving something up. That's just my belief. But in the United States they do also require abstaining from meat on Fridays which I do.

I've eaten meat when I was pregnant with twins during Lent. If you forget it's not as sin because you didn't do it with knowledge. But Lent is about making ourselves ready for Christ and the sacrifice he made for us. You reasoning for not doing it doesn't have to do with medical or economic considerations. You said you don't feel like it. I understand because alot of Friday's I don't feel like it. Often I eat a Cheese sandwich. It's not what I want or necessarily enjoy, that's what makes it a sacrafice. That's what brings you closer to Jesus and his sacrafice.

 

[NotUrsula]

I'm going to preface this with the disclaimer that this is NOT Church doctrine, but my opinion. I choose to believe that Christ would understand and agree with my reasoning on the subject, given the rest of His teachings. That it contradicts doctrine is just something I live with, and I honestly don't care if the Church doesn't like it; I just don't agree with them on this point. (And yes, I know that the Catholic Church is not a democracy.)

Many years ago in CCD when I was preparing for Confirmation, my priest at the time discussed this with us and gave it as his personal opinion that what counts is that you sacrifice, not so much what the sacrifice is. (Of course, he was a Claretian. )

The liturgical point of the dietary restrictions for Lent is that Catholics are not supposed to be eating expensive "rich" foods at that time; your diet is supposed to be plain, such as a poor person would eat. (You know, WWJE?) It is not the same principle as the Jewish dietary laws, which are based on the idea that certain foods are unclean in God's eyes.

IMO, if you live near a lake or ocean where fish/shellfish is cheap and plentiful and you can put in the labor to catch it yourself, then it makes sense to eat it as Lenten food. If you live far away from the source and must pay a premium for it, then it is ridiculous as Lenten food. Box m&c makes sense, but Fettucini Alfredo made with 6 varieties of imported cheese does not. Hamburger in a tube makes sense, too, but not ribeye steak.

What my family does during Lent is to eat poorly. Yep, on purpose. We put ourselves on what amounts to a food-stamp diet; lots of starches, canned veggies and fruit instead of fresh, and no proteins that cost more than $2/lb. Lots of soups and stews. During Lent we only eat fish if we catch it, because here it is expensive stuff.

The point to me is to actually sacrifice, not use the restrictions as an excuse to splurge on lobster once a week for six weeks. If that means that I eat meatloaf when I don't care for it, then I think that I'm on the right track.

 

[sb4k]

To put it into perspective - what if you told your child that they could keep their room a total mess and then only clean it on Ash Wednesday and Fridays during Lent. Doesn't seem like a huge deal correct? Now turn this one small sacrifice into how many days out of the actual year you have to give up meat. Does it still feel like a huge deal? I recommend going to see The Passion of the Christ. Ask him if it was a big deal.

 

[lntsmom]

If you're "just not into" church teachings, find another church.

Seriously. If you don't believe in pennance and reconcilliation, which is what fasting and abstinance are about, then you don't believe what the Catholic church believes.

If you think you know better than anyone else and that you don't need guidance to be a better person, then find a church that embraces that philosophy.

On the other hand, maybe you need to question how serious you are about your faith and whether you think a embracing only those traditions that are convenient for you is enough. Seems to me the Bible says something about the way being narrow....

My answer: no, you can't be a good Catholic and choose to ignore teachings. Either man up and do the right thing or find another church.

 

[esbrick]

I hope I don't start a huge debate here and I'm almost scared to post this but I'm just wondering what other people think. Am I a bad Catholic if I eat meat on Fridays during lent? I go to mass every sunday, am involved in a lot of things at church but I just can't get into the "no meat on fridays". Just wondering what other Catholic's think.

My aunt in Ireland who is one of the most spiritual persons that I know was shocked when she was here one year during Lent and we made it a point to have fish on Friday. In Europe this is not an observed law in most homes. I have read up on this and I agree with the theory that the no fish on Friday during Lent law was contrived by the church for economic reason not biblical. That being said, religion is highly personal! Observing Lent is one thing and whether you do it by sacrifice or by virtue is personal. In our house we observe the no eating meat law because that is what makes my DH and DD more comfortable. I don't see it as a sacrifice as we make up new and different things to have during this time so it is my and DH's decision to give up drinking for Lent. We really enjoy having a drink at the end of the week and on the weekends, however, next time that happens it will be at Easter Sunday brunch. My DD is going to be working on doing good deeds for her family and friends. She is going to do at least one thing everyday to make someone's day better and a couple of other things.

I went to Catholic school all my life. I believe, love and have faith in God. I believe in the teachings of God, the 10 Commandments, and most if not all Catholic doctrine. My problem is with the interpretation of the doctrine by the Church. Sometimes, as in all faiths/ religions man can and has manipulated God's word to meet his own interpretation thereby making a personal interpretation law. Sometimes I wonder if it is not time for another Synod to re-evaluate some of the interpretations of the laws. I'm not saying they are all wrong but I do believe that these days there are more variables to certain situations that need to be taken into account. I do understand that I am making my faith personal, however, I don't expect everyone to accept my way.

This is MY personal belief/ opinion and to me it is ok. I don't expect people to accept it, just to respect it.

This came out way longer then I intended but OP thanks for the post because it really made me think a little harder. . .

 

[sb4k]

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it. 19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

And this is why we follow church doctrine no matter what we personally believe. We are going on the authority that Jesus gave Peter who were succeeded by todays popes.

 

[lntsmom]

I'm going to preface this with the disclaimer that this is NOT Church doctrine, but my opinion. I choose to believe that Christ would understand and agree with my reasoning on the subject, given the rest of His teachings. That it contradicts doctrine is just something I live with, and I honestly don't care if the Church doesn't like it; I just don't agree with them on this point. (And yes, I know that the Catholic Church is not a democracy.)

Many years ago in CCD when I was preparing for Confirmation, my priest at the time discussed this with us and gave it as his personal opinion that what counts is that you sacrifice, not so much what the sacrifice is. (Of course, he was a Claretian. )

The liturgical point of the dietary restrictions for Lent is that Catholics are not supposed to be eating expensive "rich" foods at that time; your diet is supposed to be plain, such as a poor person would eat. (You know, WWJE?) It is not the same principle as the Jewish dietary laws, which are based on the idea that certain foods are unclean in God's eyes.

IMO, if you live near a lake or ocean where fish/shellfish is cheap and plentiful and you can put in the labor to catch it yourself, then it makes sense to eat it as Lenten food. If you live far away from the source and must pay a premium for it, then it is ridiculous as Lenten food. Box m&c makes sense, but Fettucini Alfredo made with 6 varieties of imported cheese does not. Hamburger in a tube makes sense, too, but not ribeye steak.

What my family does during Lent is to eat poorly. Yep, on purpose. We put ourselves on what amounts to a food-stamp diet; lots of starches, canned veggies and fruit instead of fresh, and no proteins that cost more than $2/lb. Lots of soups and stews. During Lent we only eat fish if we catch it, because here it is expensive stuff.

The point to me is to actually sacrifice, not use the restrictions as an excuse to splurge on lobster once a week for six weeks. If that means that I eat meatloaf when I don't care for it, then I think that I'm on the right track.

Since we're talking about the point "to me"...I'll share:


There's an old saying: The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

My honest opinion is that anyone who thinks they can reinterpret restrictions has bigger problems than deciding whether to eat meat on Fridays. A look at the 7 Deadly Sins and the 7 Cardinal Virtues might be in line.

Oh, and you might look up a little ditty in the Bible that goes something like this: Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

I suggest folks worry about themselves rather than justify their own wrong doings by comparing themselves to others they think are the bigger sinners.

And to that I'd add, any priest who recommends a candidate for Confirmation knowing that said person does not in fact embrace basic church doctrine, covenants, rites, and rituals should be taken to task by his bishop (at the very least)!

 

[Tiffa]

I too am Catholic and dont agree with the changes the Pope chooses, after all he chose to ignore all those priest all those years. I have been told I was going to hell by preist that married my DH and myself. I told him I would see him there. There are many things that come and go and it seems to depend on the year as to what they want you to do, now you have to wave your arms in the air to do the Our Father, which to me is a prayer and I will fold my hands and pray it, not look like the Jonesboro congrigation. The meat thing is small to me. Since I am going to hell I guess it doesnt really matter

 

[princessmom29]

Since we're talking about the point "to me"...I'll share:


There's an old saying: The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

My honest opinion is that anyone who thinks they can reinterpret restrictions has bigger problems than deciding whether to eat meat on Fridays. A look at the 7 Deadly Sins and the 7 Cardinal Virtues might be in line.

Oh, and you might look up a little ditty in the Bible that goes something like this: Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

I suggest folks worry about themselves rather than justify their own wrong doings by comparing themselves to others they think are the bigger sinners.

And to that I'd add, any priest who recommends a candidate for Confirmation knowing that said person does not in fact embrace basic church doctrine, covenants, rites, and rituals should be taken to task by his bishop (at the very least)!

I think that God gave us reason to be abole to personally examine our beliefs. When it comes right down to it our relationship with God is a personal one. Everone should examine the particular "restrictions" of his or her brand of religion and determine wether they feel that they are truly something God mandates. If you beleive it you shoud understand why you beleive it and not just follw it blindly because someone else, in the church or not, told you to.

 

[princessmom29]

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it. 19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

And this is why we follow church doctrine no matter what we personally believe. We are going on the authority that Jesus gave Peter who were succeeded by todays popes.

Translated by people seeking to justify their own athourity!

 

[fussymonkey]

I suspect you aren't interested in answers from non-Catholics, but here is my 2 cents anyway...

I don't think the question you should be asking yourself is "am I a bad Catholic?" becuase really, its irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The question should be, "am I a good daughter to my heavenly Father?".

I am tempted to respond that the prohibition of meat on Fridays during Lent is not Biblical and is not founded in Scripture, therefore your refusal to comply with doctrine that is the church's but not God's is ok if your concious is giving the all-clear. After all, ranting about "cafeteria christians" aside, I think we are all given free will, intellect, discernment and pray for wisdom so that we can follow Biblical tennants to the best of our abilities, and that it is your basic responsibilty to constantly question your faith, test it and refine it. If that's what you were doing- questioning why this specific Friday ban is important and all that, I'd get where you were coming from.

But that's not what this sounds like. It sounds like rebellion, like an I-just-don't-want-to attitude. And just like when we know when our kids are testing us for a purpose and when they are just being stubborn and defiant, God also knows when we are seeking His truth and when we are just demanding our own way.

So, I don't know or care if you are a good Catholic or not... but I hope you are not a rebellious daughter to your Father.

 

[esbrick]

I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions here, because you are all so passionate in your beliefs. The best part is that we are all able to express them.

Please remember that when it comes to religion or one's faith we should not judge how others practice. The Church gave us guidelines based on God's word in the Bible. God gave us freewill and the ablitly to be able to follow them to the best of our ability understanding that man is inherintly good. (my opinion/ belief here, I dont' speak for God)

Let's just keep in mind that in the end of days it is God's judgement we will sit in, not man's. . .

 

[Carlyzmom]

Don't feel bad! I am a Baptist and I drink wine!

 

[Shagley]

I'm not Catholic, but a few years ago, St. Patrick's Day fell on a Friday during lent. At that time, our local Bishop said that the "no meat on Friday's" was more of a guideline than a rule, so he said that it would be just fine for Catholics to have the corned beef and cabbage on that day. My thought is that if God really cared if you had meat on Friday's during Lent, then he wouldn't make an exception for St. Patrick's Day.

You could always become Lutheran like me. We are "Catholic Lite". All of the doctrine with 1/3 less guilt.

 

[brymolmom]

This is an interesting discussion and is making me think - I like that!

I do wonder about the lives/homes of those who believe they need to follow every rule to the letter. I was given a book of typical 'wedding readings' to look through when dh and I were planning our Catholic wedding. I went in to meet with the Deacon and told him I was appalled they are still giving that out to soon-to-be-marrieds. I'm not very knowledgeable about Bible verses, so someone will have to help me, but included in the recommended reading options was the one about a husband being joyous of a silent wife. My Deacon didn't find it as humorous as I did...and I think this is one way the Church must adjust if they want to increase/maintain membership. I can't even believe a Church today would 'recommend' that a wife be subservient to her husband. The Bible was written a LONG time ago and it might have been acceptable then, but, God would not have given women and men the brains they have if they wanted only one of them to use it.

Thankfully, I do consider the Bible and the Church teachings to be wonderful tools to guide me in my faith. But I also look to myself to determine what God had in mind when He made me.