Opinions on the "El Rio Del Tiempo" theme.

[Ariel Mae]

El Rio grew on me over time. I didn't like it at first and really came to enjoy it. I am also not a huge fan of using Three Horny Birds to headline the new attraction. Still, I will go on it when it opens for three reasons:

*reads*

- This attraction remake has been in the pipe for something like eight years now if I am not mistaken. That was plenty of time to say goodbye to the old ride.

To say goodbye to renditions is one thing, but to say goodbye to say hello to a duck is absurd.

- Disney's track record on new and remade attractions has been fairly decent lately. For every four, one is a huge hit, two turn out to be a nice addition, and one is a huge screwup. That's much better than it was during the Pressler/Eisner dictatorship.

Okay, fair enough.

- Boycotting a single ride isn't going to accomplish anything but deprive me of an experience with an incredibly low opportunity cost (a few minutes of my time) that has a small but significant chance of positively surprising me. If it sucks, complain. Negative feedback prompting negative press is how several Disney flops quickly disappeared from the face of the earth.

Boycotting is a form of negative feedback.

If the flops were to disappear, we'd be seeing the originals, which we are not.

 

[Mickmse2002]

I just get amazed by the level of anti-Disney vitriole over something no one has even seen yet. Short of bringing Walt out of his cryogenic stupor is there anything that will be seen as a positive?

 

[EUROPACL]

I just get amazed by the level of anti-Disney vitriole over something no one has even seen yet. Short of bringing Walt out of his cryogenic stupor is there anything that will be seen as a positive?

I don't need to eat a poop sandwich to know that it will taste bad.

 

[Mickmse2002]

I don't need to eat a poop sandwich to know that it will taste bad.

Thanks for the intelligent reply, helps to prove my point.

 

[Another Voice]

So I suppose you see each and every movie that's released into a theater? How do you know you're not going to like the movie until you see it. I evny you all that time - rushing out each Friday and watchin six, seven, eight new movies! You must be so morally superior to the rest of us with your ability not to pre-judge anything.

Entertainment always involves making a judgement before you watch it. That's the whole reason behind movie trailers, movie posters and Entertainmnet Tonight "exclusive" interviews with the bimbo of the weak - they're all designed to give a good impression of the the movie before you see it.

Yes, it's fun to the do the morally upright "don't knock it until you see it" tap dance, but it's not how normal people operate in the world. A huge percentage of the audience isn't interested in seeing a duck wander through Mexico City (unless he was in one of those Mayan heart-ripping-out movies that Disney just made).

But then again, there were lots of people screaming "don't critize California Adventure until to you see it". They turned out to be right - it was far worse than anyone had imagined.

 

[EUROPACL]

Thanks for the intelligent reply, helps to prove my point.

Nice to finally talk to someone that Bambi II, Mulan II,Atlantis: Milo's Return were produced for. How many copies of each did you buy? Did you get the snowglobes that go with each one?

 

[Mickmse2002]

So I suppose you see each and every movie that's released into a theater? How do you know you're not going to like the movie until you see it. I evny you all that time - rushing out each Friday and watchin six, seven, eight new movies! You must be so morally superior to the rest of us with your ability not to pre-judge anything.

Entertainment always involves making a judgement before you watch it. That's the whole reason behind movie trailers, movie posters and Entertainmnet Tonight "exclusive" interviews with the bimbo of the weak - they're all designed to give a good impression of the the movie before you see it.

Yes, it's fun to the do the morally upright "don't knock it until you see it" tap dance, but it's not how normal people operate in the world. A huge percentage of the audience isn't interested in seeing a duck wander through Mexico City (unless he was in one of those Mayan heart-ripping-out movies that Disney just made).

But then again, there were lots of people screaming "don't critize California Adventure until to you see it". They turned out to be right - it was far worse than anyone had imagined.

I'm sorry you opt to condemn everything Disney does and those who choose to make up their own minds, without taking the time to see for yourself. Do you believe every movie critic or do you use your own mind to make your own decision. So you can continue to take your vitriole out on any poster who doesn't share your view or you can do something novel.....like open your mind to the possibility, however slight, that perhaps your wrong.

 

[Michael623]

I think it's kind of funny that this ride has all of a sudden become an untouchable classic. I though the only reason everyone went on this ride is because it is sitting down, out of the sun and the line is always short. I've heard this ride called a lot of things but "classic" isn't the first thing that comes to mind. I understand the point everyone is making about Disney management but come on, this ride is only slightly better than a carnival tunnel of love as it is.

 

[Michael623]

A question for AV, when you wrote "bimbo of the weak," was that misspelling an intended pun (which I rather enjoyed) or just a spelling error?

 

[Mickmse2002]

Nice to finally talk to someone that Bambi II, Mulan II,Atlantis: Milo's Return were produced for. How many copies of each did you buy? Did you get the snowglobes that go with each one?

Sorry to disappoint but never saw any of them, didn't buy them and don't own a snowglobe. But I am sure am glad a lot of people did to earn the company some nice returns. Old Roy would love the revenue stream.

 

[Mickmse2002]

I think it's kind of funny that this ride has all of a sudden become an untouchable classic. I though the only reason everyone went on this ride is because it is sitting down, out of the sun and the line is always short. I've heard this ride called a lot of things but "classic" isn't the first thing that comes to mind. I understand the point everyone is making about Disney management but come on, this ride is only slightly better than a carnival tunnel of love as it is.

Nah, the real issue here isn't the ride or even the changes. The real issue is someone has the audacity to challenge the errant assumptions of frequent posters who perceive themselves as guardians of the "true Disney".

 

[Another Voice]

I've heard this ride called a lot of things but "classic" isn't the first thing that comes to mind.

I agree. My comments are because they’re changing “a classic”, only that Disney is taking a cheap and easy out instead of even attempting to make an interesting or better attraction. One of the key attributes of Disney had been the creed to continually improve all of the attractions. Throwing in a cartoon duck feels less of an “improvement” and more of a gimmick.

So you can continue to take your vitriole out on any poster…

Re-read my post. Entertainment follows a different set of rules. A movie, a show, an attracation has too look interesting and enjoyable before you experience – it has to draw in an audience.

My vitriol is directed at Disney because they have chosen a cheap and pointless gimmick (a cartoon duck) to lure in the audience instead of making a true Disney attraction – one that brings in an audience because there is an expectation of seeing something they had never seen before.

Yes, there will be people who want to see the duck. I’m sure there are lots of five year old that will be thrilled by the experience. But toddlers are much easier to entertain than adults; I don’t give brownie points to a company that does the cheap and easy.

Why can’t Disney do something that an adult would find interesting? THEY HAVE AN ENTIRE NATION TO PLAY WITH! Look at what ‘Soaring Over California’! – Why not try something as unique, as interesting as that attraction for Mexico. Are the Maya and the Aztec that much more boring than Napa vineyards? Is the Sea of Cortez less scenic than downtown Los Angeles?

My vitriol is also directed at those who’s only support of Disney seems to be constant demands that everyone lower their expectations. Why shouldn’t we expect a good, a better ride from Disney – they tell us they “make magic”. Yet on the Internet all we hear are demands to shut up and except whatever we’re given.

The "old methods" aren't important because they can from Walt, but because they worked for the business. Sure, they took a lot of hard work and talent to follow - that's why there are so many people opposed to them now. The lure of cheap money is very strong to poor businessmen; it's much easier to bully the consumer than to honestly impress them. That's the attitude that made 'California Adventure', 'Journey Into YOUR Imgaination', 'Stitch Encounter' and others the flops, failures and wastes of resources they are.

I expect more from Disney than film strips of a cartoon duck in a sombrero. People see through con jobs, half heated entertainents, and cheap efforts to raid their wallet. Disney would see far more success from exceeding their guests' expectations than by pandering to them.

P.S. – I wish I could say it was planned, but “weak” was just a typo.

 

[DisneyGirl4188]

Do some of you mean to be insulting? I'm stupid because I have my doubts as to whether or not adding Donald is going to ruin this ride?

 

[Mickmse2002]

Do some of you mean to be insulting? I'm stupid because I have my doubts as to whether or not adding Donald is going to ruin this ride?

Yes, some here do mean to be insulting. I say good for you for choosing to keep an open mind about these changes.

 

[raidermatt]

Do some of you mean to be insulting? I'm stupid because I have my doubts as to whether or not adding Donald is going to ruin this ride?

The problem being pointed out isn't whether any one person will enjoy it or not. That will be a matter of personal taste, and nobody is being insulted for that.

If you want to keep your part in the discussion to that level, that's fine. No, you are not stupid for it.


What's being questioned is the DECISION which has been made. If you do want to engage in a discussion over that decision, you have to get beyond the question of whether or not you will personally like the attraction when you ride it. Otherwise there is absolutely no reason to discuss any rumors since we obviously haven't personally rode the attractions, and any discussion after the fact can only amount to "I liked it." "I didn't like it."

What IS being insulted is the IDEA that you cannot form opinions about how and why decisions are made.

Think about it. If the president decides to go to war, should all debate be shut off until we find out how the war turns out?

(insert joke here)

The how's and why's of the decision are far more important than the end result. A bad process is still going to yield good results sometimes. But if the only focus is on the result, and the process is off limits, how do you ever address the problem.

But again, if you don't care to get into all of that, and you just want to ride attractions and see if you like them, that's fine. It's just that's not what the debate is about.

 

[EUROPACL]

Sorry to disappoint but never saw any of them, didn't buy them and don't own a snowglobe. But I am sure am glad a lot of people did to earn the company some nice returns. Old Roy would love the revenue stream.

Wow so the quality of the product really dosen't matter to you as long as Disney makes money off of it. Wow...just Wow!. So is this concern for Disney profits tied to your job posting here or a large amount of stock that you own?

 

[Mickmse2002]

Wow so the quality of the product really dosen't matter to you as long as Disney makes money off of it. Wow...just Wow!. So is this concern for Disney profits tied to your job posting here or a large amount of stock that you own?

Of course quality matters to me and I have never posted anything to the contrary. Your idea of what quality is and the opinions of others may differ dramatically. Doesn't make you right, doesn't make you wrong. To demean others for enjoying these products is rude and insulting.

 

[YoHo]

Nobody is demeaning others for what they enjoy. Nobody has and nobody will.

We're discussing whether Disney is proceeding with a correct corporate culture, whether it's doing things for the right reasons in the right way.

 

[EUROPACL]

Of course quality matters to me and I have never posted anything to the contrary. Your idea of what quality is and the opinions of others may differ dramatically. Doesn't make you right, doesn't make you wrong. To demean others for enjoying these products is rude and insulting.

Only people looking to be insulted are insulted. Many people "enjoy" plenty of stuff that I consider crap, bad, poor quality, discusting even (considering some of the videos you can buy-read: Adult) and that is their choice and if they want to toot their horns over how great Peter Pan IV is.... that's fine. I still get to put my two cents in the mix as well. You seemed to skip over the point that AV,myself and others are trying to make. If you're not allowed to prejudge anything then how do you find the time to sample every movie, DTVD, ride, attraction, new restraunt, .... or any other product that Disney puts out?

 

[Mickmse2002]

Only people looking to be insulted are insulted. Many people "enjoy" plenty of stuff that I consider crap, bad, poor quality, discusting even (considering some of the videos you can buy-read: Adult) and that is their choice and if they want to toot their horns over how great Peter Pan IV is.... that's fine. I still get to put my two cents in the mix as well. You seemed to skip over the point that AV,myself and others are trying to make. If you're not allowed to prejudge anything then how do you find the time to sample every movie, DTVD, ride, attraction, new restraunt, .... or any other product that Disney puts out?

On the first point you are incorrect. People can be insulted without looking to be insulted and continuing to say the same thing over and over doesn't make it true.

I never skipped over the point you and others are trying to prove. I think if you actually go back my very first post was an honest question as to what was so wrong. I still haven't seen any cogent arguments that this was a bad cfreative or business decision. I think there is a tendency among many regulars here to not have an open mind. That's why I challenge the way I do in some posts. At least have the intellectual honesty to actually consider someone else's point of view befor eyou accuse them of being part of the "snowglobe set".

And of course everyone can prejudge things, we call that human nature. But you also have to be smart enough to consider the source of either criticism or glowing endorsements and make decisions based on fact.

Is adding Donald Duck to a poorly conceived, tired attraction a bad business or creative decision? I don't know.