Opinions on a sensitive subject, please

[bumbershoot]

I do not want a divorce. My children do not deserve that. I have recently looked into counseling for myself because I feel like I will explode. I think I know what I have to do, but I am scared. Heck I still take an anti depressant from the first emotional affair business, but I am tired of walking on egg shells.

I'm a child of two divorces, both for excellent reasons. My husband is a child of a marriage that stayed intact until his dad died, despite the three kids BEGGING their mom to leave their dad.

Both of our dads did the same things...lies, affairs, and verbal and physical abuse of their wives.

Although I'm still a bit messed up, I'm FAR healthier than my husband is. My husband carries so many more scars than I do, because he was inside of that relationship day in and day out while the unhealthiness went on and on and on.

Because my mom left, I wasn't inside of it. I still had daddy issues, but they were far less because I wasn't living inside of that sick relationship.

If your husband is doing wrong, your children deserve to have him STOP it, and if he doesn't stop, they 100% deserve to have you leave, so that they aren't living in the mess. So they have a chance to learn to do something else.

My mom and first stepdad...they married for bad reasons, and my mom found out just after they got back from their honeymoon that he was not a great man at all. She stayed for some reasons that felt right to her at the time (one of them most likely being so that me and my brother could have a "father figure"). They lasted 7 years, when everything hit the fan, and I discovered that they'd been hiding their fights, hiding their awful relationship. The house felt icky. The "vibe" of their household never felt good. But since they pretended it was happy, I figured that's what happiness was.

He divorced my mom, and she re-met her childhood sweetheart, who proposed instantly and they married. He, my second stepdad, and I have some issues and have had from the beginning, but he was a good husband. I moved in with them when I was 25, for a year, and during that time I learned what a GOOD relationship felt like as a child. I remember the first time they fought...I thought "oh no, that's the end", because that's how things went with the other two husbands of my mom. One big blow-out argument, and the guy was gone for days.

By dinner their argument was done with, and they were blissful again! It was amazing to see how to work THROUGH an argument.

Anyway, I'm writing a novel here, and I just mean to say...it's healthier for your children to be kids of divorce, and get to have healthy mom and healthy dad apart...than it is for them to be in an "intact" marriage where no one is healthy and everyone is miserable.


You should have a counselor already, especially if you're taking antidepressants. you should have been in it this whole time, along with your husband! He should have a counselor, you should, and you should have a couples counselor. (some will just use the same person, but I personally don't think that would work for me)

YOU don't need to walk on eggshells. My husband, when he was just my fiance, flipped out and left me quite rudely. He was having some problems in his own head. He relaized he was wrong very quickly, but it took months of serious counseling for us to consider reuniting.

I have never walked on eggshells about it. It's been part of the agreements that we made as we worked our way back together. I am allowed to ask for ANYTHING that makes me feel safe, and he, if he cares about me, must do it. I still have nervous times, and I am up front about it, and because he knows the wrong he did (which wasn't anywhere NEAR what your husband did and might still be doing), he fixes it. No questions, no whining, none of that. It's the condition of our agreements made back then.

You are not in the wrong. It bothers me that you are taking antidepressants, because you are anxious for a reason, and the person who caused that reason should be doing EVERYTHING in his power to make it right. If you get anxious you should be able to communicate this to him, and he should make it right.



Your friend obviously knows what is in HER heart, that she will always be a cheater. But that doesn't necessarily mean that your husband will always be; it also sounds like she went a bit further than your husband did during his bad decision period.

You have the right, especially given your history, to ask your DH to stop the correspondence with her for no other reason than it makes you uncomfortable.

A good man will avoid impropriety. A really good man will take steps to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

Absolutely positively 100%! Repeat repeat repeat.

IT sounds like she may be the one persuing him.

It does sound like it!



This whole thing reminds me of why I don't talk to my real life friends about stuff involving my husband. Too dangerous. Most will just end up holding it against the man forever more. Like my friends, I believe, are still waiting for DH to take off again. They don't trust him because they dont' know what we went through to work it through.

And obviously the other type of female friend will use what you have told her and use it for her own nefarious reasons!

Time to end the friendship (or, rather, finish the ending of the friendship...she's already started to end it) and make sure your husband is with the "let's make our relationship true and good" program.

 

[Mermaid02]

She is no longer your friend, she is now HIS friend. Nip it. Now.

 

[Barbossa]

Is there a reason why DH is cultivating online relationships? Is he unhappy with the marriage i.e. not having his own emotional and physical needs met? A lot of times it comes down to sex. Men need it but their partners don't provide it. It's the equivalent of refusing to feed a hungry member of your family. At some point the hunger forces one to look elsewhere.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

I guess we can agree to disagree. I just refuse to jump on the man bashing bandwagon right away and believe that the OP should have a discussion with him and give him the benefit of the doubt at first.

If nothing is going on then why are they now corresponding via his work e-mail and her hot mail account? Where they know she can't read their emails?

No one is *man bashing* we are just being realistic with the facts at hand.

 

[Hillbeans]

I've been in this situation and think you're doing the right thing by questioning the motives of your so-called friend. I was in a similar situation and I think what bothered me most was that she started getting sly - she was stopping over at the house times I wasn't home or calling/e-mailing DH at work. I thought it was really disrespectful of my marriage and our friendship. Of course then I was the bad guy when I asked her to knock it off.

 

[OceanAnnie]

You are dealing with so much. Betrayal of your DH and betrayal of your "friend".

I think I missed it, when did your "friend's correspondence start with your DH? Was it after you confided in her or before? It sounded like it was possibly before because of what she said to you, "Once a cheater, always a cheater.", between that statement and admitting she cheated on her husband, she was sending a clear message to you. It was all out in the open that day. She put it all out there with the exception of saying outright that she had a part in your pain too. It was probably on her tongue.

Telling you, "Once a cheater, always a cheater.", as you were leaving with your infant in your arms, was her way of dashing your hopes for husband so that she could have him. She is the worst of the worst.

Your husband sounds like a snake in his own right. You can't make a person be faithful. He's got to want it. Counseling. Changing his ways. He's got work to do and lots of it. His words don't appear to be matching his actions. I'd keep my finger on the pulse of that and make decisions accordingly.

I do know the former friend would remain "former". I'd have none of it. And DH would have to be on the same page or he would become a "former" too.

I'm sorry you are in the snake pit. You need some anti-venom and quick.

 

[horseshowmom]

Is there a reason why DH is cultivating online relationships? Is he unhappy with the marriage i.e. not having his own emotional and physical needs met? A lot of times it comes down to sex. Men need it but their partners don't provide it. It's the equivalent of refusing to feed a hungry member of your family. At some point the hunger forces one to look elsewhere.

There is never, never, never, NEVER an excuse for "looking elsewhere". If you're not happy, either get counseling and/or choose to get out of the marriage.

You are dealing with so much. Betrayal of your DH and betrayal of your "friend".

I think I missed it, when did your "friend's correspondence start with your DH? Was it after you confided in her or before? It sounded like it was possibly before because of what she said to you, "Once a cheater, always a cheater.", between that statement and admitting she cheated on her husband, she was sending a clear message to you. It was all out in the open that day. She put it all out there with the exception of saying outright that she had a part in your pain too. It was probably on her tongue.

Telling you, "Once a cheater, always a cheater.", as you were leaving with your infant in your arms, was her way of dashing your hopes for husband so that she could have him. She is the worst of the worst.

Your husband sounds like a snake in his own right. You can't make a person be faithful. He's got to want it. Counseling. Changing his ways. He's got work to do and lots of it. His words don't appear to be matching his actions. I'd keep my finger on the pulse of that and make decisions accordingly.

I do know the former friend would remain "former". I'd have none of it. And DH would have to be on the same page or he would become a "former" too.

I'm sorry you are in the snake pit. You need some anti-venom and quick.

I'm sorry, but I really agree with this. She's really sorry, and the fact that he's carrying on a "friendship" with her speaks volumes.

 

[krcit]

Is there a reason why DH is cultivating online relationships? Is he unhappy with the marriage i.e. not having his own emotional and physical needs met? A lot of times it comes down to sex. Men need it but their partners don't provide it. It's the equivalent of refusing to feed a hungry member of your family. At some point the hunger forces one to look elsewhere.

This can go the other way also. Still doesn't make it ok to cheat. People who cheat can probaby give a bunch of reasons why they feel 'justified' in cheating. I don't judge anyone's marriage but if you are sleeping with someone else without your spouse knowing and being ok with it then you're cheating. Whatever the reasons, it is what it is.

 

[JLTraveling]

I'm part of a VERY close, mixed-gender, mixed-orientation group of friends. Most are single, some are married. We're all very open with each other and, honestly, rather flirtatious. But it's all in fun, we don't cross lines, and everyone knows what's going on. So I definitely believe that men and women can be quite close friends without turning into anything inappropriate.

That said, I see nothing but red flags in this story. To me, the secrecy is the problem, or more accurately, the symptom. DH didn't mention this friendship until it was discovered. "Friend" hasn't mentioned it at all. Both the DH and the friend have poor track records. Whether or not a line has actually been crossed, they're playing with fire, and it's OP that's going to get burned.

I think it's possible, actually quite likely, that nothing untoward has happened. YET. But if this is a known weakness for both of them, then the odds are quite high that it could. Therefore, it needs to be stopped, immediately.

OP, I really feel for you. I went through this with my ex, and he ended up leaving me for his previous ex while I was reeling from the unexpected death of my mother. I sincerely hope that your situation has a better resolution, but I agree with everyone else that staying together for the kids is always the worst choice, should it come to that point.

I agree that you both need separate counselors, you need a couple's counselor, and your "friend" needs to be out of the equation altogether. Your DH HAS to get to the bottom of what he gets out of the online relationships, and find a way to meet those needs within your marriage. You need to get to the bottom of your anxiety and depression issues and learn to trust your own instincts. And the two of you need to decide whether it's in your mutual interests to stay together or not. Those are difficult issues, and you can't do it without ONGOING therapy.

Best of luck to you. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

 

[Colleen27]

There is never, never, never, NEVER an excuse for "looking elsewhere". If you're not happy, either get counseling and/or choose to get out of the marriage.

Looking for a reason doesn't excuse the behaviour, but it makes it much easier to change the things that led to that behaviour to begin with. Generally speaking, happily married people don't seek out extramarital companionship. For a man to seek out online companionship repeatedly, particularly without physical infidelity, strongly suggests that he feels something is missing in the marital relationship. Yes, he should have the stones to face up to the problem and deal with it head on, but the fact that he handled it badly isn't a reason to ignore/not look for the underlying reason that set the whole situation into motion.

 

[rie'smom]

Looking for a reason doesn't excuse the behaviour, but it makes it much easier to change the things that led to that behaviour to begin with. Generally speaking, happily married people don't seek out extramarital companionship. For a man to seek out online companionship repeatedly, particularly without physical infidelity, strongly suggests that he feels something is missing in the marital relationship. Yes, he should have the stones to face up to the problem and deal with it head on, but the fact that he handled it badly isn't a reason to ignore/not look for the underlying reason that set the whole situation into motion.

Generally speaking says it all. He could just be a butt.

 

[Tuffcookie]

Dear OP,

You say his e-mail and FB acct are open to you. Do you have access to his cell phone records? I'm just wondering if they talk to each other on the phone.

This "friend", at the very least, is very insensitive to have knowledge of your and your DH's past problems and then communicate with him behind your back. If something is going on you will find out soon enough. No one wants a divorce and certainly no kids deserve divorced parents but some things are deal breakers.

to you.

TC

 

[Mrs. Darcy]

I think what your DH and your friend are doing is wrong. he may not be sleeping with her or with the other woman, but he's too close to them and married men shouldn't be so close to other women. They can be friends, yes my husband has female friends, but it's like brother-sister kind of relationship. These are women he's known since college and I've become friends with them, too. A woman has an intuition about these things and if it bothers you, it's wrong, as long as you're not an unreasonable jealous type, which I don't get from you.

The emails should stop. If they want to talk, he should invite her to your home with your permission and the three of you can sit over coffee at the kitchen table and talk like that. I remember Billy Graham saying that whenever he had a woman in his office, he kept the door open out of respect for his wife. Married men shouldn't have private relationships with other women. It takes away from the intimacy between husband and wife.

 

[Miniefan]

Married men shouldn't have private relationships with other women. It takes away from the intimacy between husband and wife.

I 100% totally agree with this.

 

[whogirl'smom]

OP, if you truly want to know everything he does online, get a keylogger installed. You will be able to see every keystroke he makes. I would not bring up a discussion until I had "proof"--at this point would you be able to take him at his word even if he said nothing is going on? Find out as much as you can yourself. If you share a cell plan, you can see every number called and the number to which every text is sent.

Just make sure you really want to know before you go digging, because you never know what is out there. Counseling to support you is a good idea regardless.

I wish you the best.

 

[lustergirl]

OP- I am so sorry this is happening to you. Been there did that- about the affair stuff. My first son's father cheated on me and I never accepted that he would be faithful to me again so we broke up. Life does go and I am sure you will realize this. It sounds like you want to stay in the relationship but does your hubby want to put forth their effort to do so? That would mean no extra companions on his part. And I dont think your friend is truly a friend because a true one would never do this to you. If I had stayed with my first husband I would of always questioning his whereabout and happenings- not worth it to drive yourself bonkers about>

 

[horseshowmom]

Generally speaking says it all. He could just be a butt.

My husband's first wife falls into that category. He was her first husband. She's married to her 7th (no, that's not a typo) husband. Apparently, she's had a lot of trouble "getting her needs met" no matter whom she married.

 

[Mary*Poppins]

Married men shouldn't have private relationships with other women. It takes away from the intimacy between husband and wife.

I agree with this also. to you OP

 

[cm8]

Yeah, I would be more than a little suspicious about. She just told you in so many words to watch your back! And knowing the past situation with your husband, i would be very VERY uncomfortable with his level of nonchalance about it. YOU are over reacting? Hell, yeah. Because this is deja vu all over again!

I say, the long so-called friendship be damned. You need to toss it right out there on the floor. This is a huge breach of trust on both their parts. Your husband knows that carrying on a "secret friendship" with anyone, not just your friend, is a no-go. Yet he's doing it anyway. Your friend is bored and looking for fun and has chosen YOUR husband to have it with. It may very well be "only" an online dalliance, but as you know that can be as damaging as any physical relationship. I think your "friendship" is probablly over. I would never trust this woman again. And that goes double for your husband!

I think she just told you who SHE cheated with 2 years before,
There is more then either one of them are letting on

 

[pl'smama]

Is there a reason why DH is cultivating online relationships? Is he unhappy with the marriage i.e. not having his own emotional and physical needs met? A lot of times it comes down to sex. Men need it but their partners don't provide it. It's the equivalent of refusing to feed a hungry member of your family. At some point the hunger forces one to look elsewhere.

I suppose that any man could say his sexual appetite is never completely satisfied, my DH being one of them. Do I think that, in our case it is reason enough for him to stray again? No, I don't. While I do not have an unquenchable appetite for sex I am not a prude either. Could we and I say we because it is not my responsibility alone, work harder in our intimate life, yes of course we could. As I mentioned in an earlier post my DH works a completely opposite shift to me so our quality time together is on the weekend, with our two young kids. I think I do the best I can all things
considered. It is also harder to want to be with someone when you believe they are thinking of someone else. That has been my life for two years. As for the first time around, his dalliances started during my pregnancy. I was sick as a dog the whole time, raising a pre-schooler and trying to work all while hubby worked an off shift and used his free time to entertain himself. Once I started to suspect he was cheating on me, but had no proof I made the decision to look past it and make him interested in me again. Picture a seven months pregnant woman, throwing up daily, feeling like crap. Then picture that same woman lining up my MIL to take our DD overnight. I told DH we were going for a night out for us, last chance before baby comes and he turned me down.
So, I have made the efforts and continue to.