Opinions on a sensitive subject, please

[pl'smama]

Thank you everyone for the opinions, hugs, prayers and support. It means a great deal and I have been given some good ideas on how I should proceed.

To answer the question of how I found out, well it all stems from the time of my pregnancy, about two and a half years ago. One month prior to my son's birth I was on sick leave. My husband left for work one afternoon and I went on the computer to check emails etc.. I literally just moved the mouse and his profile page was open on this social networking site for adults. I was thinking what the heck is this?? His profile picture was ten years old, taken on our honeymoon and I was really surprised to see it. I then spent the rest of the afternoon going through his site and literally had my heart ripped out over and over again. I learned very quickly how to navigate through areas of the computer I had never thought I would. I confronted him the next day, but it took him a couple of months to stop all together. During that time I would check up on him. I learned a lot more then I bargained for.

Anyway, we did go to counseling and I gave him a list of conditions, things he had to do to prove his commitment. One if those was complete access to his email and Face Book accounts. He gave it to me right away. I have that access, with his knowledge, to this day. For a long time after I would check on his accounts daily, but then I started to relax. He was proving to me that I could trust him again, a little bit anyway. I never had an on going emailing relationship with my friend, but we talked often and our kids had play dates. My DH started to use FB again, with my knowledge and he was playing those games they have with the farms and what not. This was all visible to me, but I chose not to play the game. My friend did play and
I think this is when their correspondence started. I was not "suspicious" for a long while until one day when DH mentioned something about my friend that I did not know. A minor personal thing about her son, but I was surprised he knew. This lead me to check his email and FB and that is how I found their regular correspondence. I asked him about it and he said it was nothing. From then on I was compelled to check his emails all the time. My friend never once brought it up. The emails are not flirtatious, but they are personal. She shared several things with him that she would normally share with me. His replies are funny and lighthearted, but still border on personal. So I kept checking.

I do not want a divorce. My children do not deserve that. I have recently looked into counseling for myself because I feel like I will explode. I think I know what I have to do, but I am scared. Heck I still take an anti depressant from the first emotional affair business, but I am tired of walking on egg shells. My friend recently sent out invites to her son's birthday party, for all of us and I am pretty sure I can't handle that. Not yet. I don't think I am a push over, but I can not see myself handling a public confrontation, nor could I act like everything was hunk dory. I guess I need to grow a backbone! I hate what this is doing to me though and how it is stalling the healing I am still doing.

Anyway, thank you again for the support and the words of encouragement. I appreciate the virtual shoulders!

S

 

[pearlieq]

You have the right, especially given your history, to ask your DH to stop the correspondence with her for no other reason than it makes you uncomfortable.

A good man will avoid impropriety. A really good man will take steps to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

 

[kwelch10377]

After reading your reply, I'm not so sure anything is going on other than they became friends through playing the game on FB. It seems like they just got to talking and just became comfortable talking with each other. It seems like overall that you don't think a man and a woman can be friends without something more going on or the desire between them for something more to go on. If something was really going I think your husband would hide communications between the two of them.

I do see why you are concerned given each of their pasts, but I think you either need to trust your husband or not and if not then you need to figure out how to proceed in a marriage where there is no trust. I know he has given you a reason in the past not to trust him, but you have to figure out how to get over that if you want to stay with him.

I also think that you might be a little hurt that your friend found someone new to talk to tell things to that they may have told you in the past and that person happend to be your husband.

You really need to go and talk to someone about this and if this woman is really your friend I think you need to go to her with your concerns.

 

[canopynut66]

Okay, so I need some points of view from my fellow DISers. I know you will be honest, which is not something I can always get from friends, mainly because this is a sensitive issue.

My DH and I have been married for almost thirteen years, have children we adore and a fairly average lifestyle. We have been through our share of health issues, both involving us, our children and our parents. We have survived job loss and come out on top. I give you this background to show that we have survived many not so nice situations so I want to believe we can survive what I need your thoughts on.

A couple of years ago, during my pregnancy with my son, I constantly felt this distance between DH and I. I tried very hard to figure things out, despite being very sick for all of my pregnancy. I felt that whatever was bothering him had to do with the pregnancy or just me. No amount of talking would get him to open up to me. I was very hurt and began to suspect he was having an affair. Fast forward to a month before my son was born. I found out that yes my DH was stepping outside of our marriage for friendship, companionship, attention, chitchat etc., mostly on line. I beleived him when he said he had never slept with anyone else, that it was all on line. But let me just say, after being made aware of a great deal of what he did with these cyber girl friends, on line, it was just as painful as a physical affair. The communications between him and these women were daily, several times a day and not just limited to a website. They shared personal emails, photos, instant messages and phone calls. He was able to do this because he works an off shift so when I was at work he was at home and vice versa. Yes, he did stuff from work.

So, we worked things through, went to counseling and tried to keep the lines of communication open. It was hard for me to get past his betrayal. He has worked hard to convince me he is sorry and swears he would never hurt me again. I confided in my oldest and dearest friend when this was going on. I told her exactly what happened. Much to my surprise she shared with me her story about how SHE had an affair on her DH just two years earlier. She told me they did the counseling thing etc and of course they are still together.. The one thing she told me that really bothered me was that once a cheater always a cheater. She called me on my cell, after I left her home new baby in my arms, to tell me that. I was floored, but did not believe my DH was like her in that way.

In the past few weeks I have come to find out that this friend and my DH exchange personal emails on a weekly basis. My DH says it is nothing, no big deal. Yes he knows about her affair. He still says I am over reacting, that they are just friends. Now my so called friend hardly emails me. I work full time and she is a stay at home mom, whose husband, the one she cheated on, goes away for business on a regular basis. I will say that since this has come to light I have been avoiding her. I don't know what to say. I am good friends with her sister and mom and we have lots of friends in common. I am afraid of what this will do to all of those relationships whether they are sneaking around on me or not. Our families have been friends since kindergarten. Our children play together often. But she has always been "my friend". Heck, she even stood for us in our wedding!

So, am I wrong to be suspicious? Am I over reacting? Or am I being taken for a ride by both of them?

Thanks for reading and letting me vent.

S

Your former friend gave you your answer when she called and told you "once a cheater always a cheater" apparently she could not tell you face to face what she knows so the cell call was easier for her. Emotional affairs can be much worse than physical ones. But when we "wonder or suspect" something not right usually --something is not right. Only you know--- what is best for you and your kids. Do wish you the best.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

Since you have access to his email and facebook accounts, and their periodic email correspondance doesn't cross the boundary from friendly to flirty, it doesn't sound like there is anything inappropriate going on. If there was, he would just create a new email address to communicate with her and he hasn't. Given your husband's history I can see why you are apprehensive, but otherwise there probably wouldn't be any concern.

I would tell both of them you are not comfortable with their email friendship but it really doesn't sound like anything is going on between them.

(This opinion is based on the them emailing weekly, not daily or multiple times a day, maybe I have that part wrong)

 

[pl'smama]

After reading your reply, I'm not so sure anything is going on other than they became friends through playing the game on FB. It seems like they just got to talking and just became comfortable talking with each other. It seems like overall that you don't think a man and a woman can be friends without something more going on or the desire between them for something more to go on. If something was really going I think your husband would hide communications between the two of them.

I do see why you are concerned given each of their pasts, but I think you either need to trust your husband or not and if not then you need to figure out how to proceed in a marriage where there is no trust. I know he has given you a reason in the past not to trust him, but you have to figure out how to get over that if you want to stay with him.
I also think that you might be a little hurt that your friend found someone newto talk to tell things to that they may have told you in the past and that person happend to be your husband.

You really need to go and talk to someone about this and if this woman is really your friend I think you need to go to her with your concerns.

Thank you for your input. I can see how it might appear that they became friends over a game and for awhile I held onto that belief. It's just that she has know all along that DH's original betrayal was an on line thing and how this would be such an off limits thing going forward. It's like giving chocolate to someone on a diet. You know they would have a hard time resisting the chocolate. So why have an on line correspondence with my DH especially when she does not known can read her notes?

As for being jealous she "confides" in him now instead of me, well, that might be true if not for all the other stuff. I am not jealous of their friendship. I am saddened by her secrecy and lack of empathy for my situation.
Having put her own marriage at risk you would think that she would have more of that for an old friend.

S

 

[pl'smama]

And for the record I do think a man and a woman can be just friends. But it is harder to believe it in this situation given all the variables.

S

 

[pl'smama]

Since you have access to his email and facebook accounts, and their periodic email correspondance doesn't cross the boundary from friendly to flirty, it doesn't sound like there is anything inappropriate going on. If there was, he would just create a new email address to communicate with her and he hasn't. Given your husband's history I can see why you are apprehensive, but otherwise there probably wouldn't be any concern.

I would tell both of them you are not comfortable with their email friendship but it really doesn't sound like anything is going on between them.

(This opinion is based on the them emailing weekly, not daily or multiple times a day, maybe I have that part wrong)

For the most part the emails I have seen have been on a weekly basis, with every other one maybe being twice weekly. A few times their answers did not line up, but then she mentioned replying to his work email and then gave him her hotmail. I admit I do not have access to his work email, so I am not sure what was talked about there. It did tick me off to read that though because of the "full disclosure" commitment. So, am I blowing it all out of proportion? I just don't know. Why does she tell my DH, whom she know works an opposite shift to mine, when her husband is out if town? Why would it even be relevant if you are just playing a game?

S

 

[SC Minnie]

This relationship between your Dh and your friend, whether they are having an affair or its only friends, makes you uncomfortable. And given the past events with your DH if his relationship with another female makes you uncomfortable then he should be willing to stop it if he wants the marriage to work.

Tell him what you have told us, you have read the correspondence and do not like the 'tone'. You don't feel its appropriate and you want him to stop. Stop emailing her all together and block her on FB. If he isn't willing to do both of these then there's your answer.

As for the friend. She knows the past you and your DH had. She knows you know her past. If she values your friendship (which I don't believe she does) then she shouldn't have a problem with your DH stopping all communication. You can always be 'busy' when playdates or birthday invites come up. The relationship you had with her will never be the same.

If it were me, I would not tell anyone else about this since your extended familes are friends.

 

[SaraJayne]

Thank you everyone for the opinions, hugs, prayers and support. It means a great deal and I have been given some good ideas on how I should proceed.

To answer the question of how I found out, well it all stems from the time of my pregnancy, about two and a half years ago. One month prior to my son's birth I was on sick leave. My husband left for work one afternoon and I went on the computer to check emails etc.. I literally just moved the mouse and his profile page was open on this social networking site for adults. I was thinking what the heck is this?? His profile picture was ten years old, taken on our honeymoon and I was really surprised to see it. I then spent the rest of the afternoon going through his site and literally had my heart ripped out over and over again. I learned very quickly how to navigate through areas of the computer I had never thought I would. I confronted him the next day, but it took him a couple of months to stop all together. During that time I would check up on him. I learned a lot more then I bargained for.

Anyway, we did go to counseling and I gave him a list of conditions, things he had to do to prove his commitment. One if those was complete access to his email and Face Book accounts. He gave it to me right away. I have that access, with his knowledge, to this day. For a long time after I would check on his accounts daily, but then I started to relax. He was proving to me that I could trust him again, a little bit anyway. I never had an on going emailing relationship with my friend, but we talked often and our kids had play dates. My DH started to use FB again, with my knowledge and he was playing those games they have with the farms and what not. This was all visible to me, but I chose not to play the game. My friend did play and
I think this is when their correspondence started. I was not "suspicious" for a long while until one day when DH mentioned something about my friend that I did not know. A minor personal thing about her son, but I was surprised he knew. This lead me to check his email and FB and that is how I found their regular correspondence. I asked him about it and he said it was nothing. From then on I was compelled to check his emails all the time. My friend never once brought it up. The emails are not flirtatious, but they are personal. She shared several things with him that she would normally share with me. His replies are funny and lighthearted, but still border on personal. So I kept checking.

I do not want a divorce. My children do not deserve that. I have recently looked into counseling for myself because I feel like I will explode. I think I know what I have to do, but I am scared. Heck I still take an anti depressant from the first emotional affair business, but I am tired of walking on egg shells. My friend recently sent out invites to her son's birthday party, for all of us and I am pretty sure I can't handle that. Not yet. I don't think I am a push over, but I can not see myself handling a public confrontation, nor could I act like everything was hunk dory. I guess I need to grow a backbone! I hate what this is doing to me though and how it is stalling the healing I am still doing.

Anyway, thank you again for the support and the words of encouragement. I appreciate the virtual shoulders!

S

What about what you deserve? You don't deserve a husband that can't remain faithful.

 

[tlbwriter]

How does his communication with her compare to his communication from the earlier relationship?

 

[Sgt Mickey]

I don't believe once a cheater always a cheater. IT sounds like she may be the one persuing him. She dosen't sound very trust worthy to say once a cheater always a cheater makes her sound like she wants you to doubt him. WHY would she email her friends husband anyway.
IT all sounds fishy ecp on her end.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

After reading your reply, I'm not so sure anything is going on other than they became friends through playing the game on FB. It seems like they just got to talking and just became comfortable talking with each other. It seems like overall that you don't think a man and a woman can be friends without something more going on or the desire between them for something more to go on. If something was really going I think your husband would hide communications between the two of them.

I do see why you are concerned given each of their pasts, but I think you either need to trust your husband or not and if not then you need to figure out how to proceed in a marriage where there is no trust. I know he has given you a reason in the past not to trust him, but you have to figure out how to get over that if you want to stay with him.

I also think that you might be a little hurt that your friend found someone new to talk to tell things to that they may have told you in the past and that person happend to be your husband.

You really need to go and talk to someone about this and if this woman is really your friend I think you need to go to her with your concerns.

Do you really think her husband is going to be stupid enough to write anything that would incriminate him knowing she has access to his accounts?

I don't believe once a cheater always a cheater, but I do believe that if you cheat once and get caught, next time you'll just be smarter about it.

If the OP feels uncomfortable with the relationship, she has every right to tell her husband to knock it off. PERIOD. No explanations needed to anyone.

Why hasn't the woman told the OP that she corresponds with her husband? That in itself raises red flags in my book. Especially since she's cheated on her husband in the past.

I know I wouldn't appreciate it if one of my friends was corresponding frequently with my husband and doesn't mention it to me. What's that all about? Sorry, I'm from the old school--no one plays with my toys but me.

How do you think relationships begin? Many of them begin innocently enough...

 

[Ciao Mickey]

For the most part the emails I have seen have been on a weekly basis, with every other one maybe being twice weekly. A few times their answers did not line up, but then she mentioned replying to his work email and then gave him her hotmail. I admit I do not have access to his work email, so I am not sure what was talked about there. It did tick me off to read that though because of the "full disclosure" commitment. So, am I blowing it all out of proportion? I just don't know. Why does she tell my DH, whom she know works an opposite shift to mine, when her husband is out if town? Why would it even be relevant if you are just playing a game?

S

First off

I think you know the truth. They are corresponding with each other behind your back.

This woman is after your man. Do something before it is too late.

 

[Agri]

I agree with a PP - Do you want to live this way? Clearly he has no qualms about 'stepping out' even if it is just via email and not physical.

I dated someone much the same. I found out that even though we talked to each other and had what I thought was a decent relationship. He let me use his pc one day and had left the browser up, open to his email. He had several emails from different women from a dating site in his inbox - long after we had started dating. I asked him about it and he accused me of snooping and then said he was politely letting them down because he had 'forgotten' to close his account when we started dating (we met online). A few weeks later his picture came up in an ad (you know, the dating site ones that show people local to you) which was for a different company than the other one!

He basically was constantly talking to other girls because he didn't want to miss out on 'something better'. Now he's alone and left with his miserable momma's boy drama.

One time is a human mistake. Twice or more is a pattern. Yes, your friend is wrong, but your husband is, too.

You mention your children. Your children don't deserve a father who is a bad example. They don't deserve to see their mother in pain and turmoil because of their father. Staying with someone who does not treat you the way you should be treated is one of the worst things you can do to a child. It screws up their perception of how an intimate relationship between two people should be. Children will know that something is wrong and they will see that mistreating your partner is acceptable. It won't matter if you tell them otherwise, they will see that is how things are done - and will either do it to their partners or accept their partners doing it to them. And yes, I speak from a lot of experience. My mom stayed with my dad for her kid - me - and all I learned was to take a man cheating on me and otherwise taking advantage of me as a normal thing. That its okay to put up with it because its how a man shows love. After all of my experiences, there is no way I would want my hypothetical children to think that staying with someone who does not respect me is acceptable under any circumstances.

I'm glad you're seeking out counseling - he should be going, too. You have trust issues from his first betrayal that have not been worked out. You should not feel the need to constantly check up on him and worry that the next female might be the one he leaves you for. You need to be open and honest with him and work on your issues together.

 

[Anna_Marie]

Do you really think her husband is going to be stupid enough to write anything that would incriminate him knowing she has access to his accounts?

I don't believe once a cheater always a cheater, but I do believe that if you cheat once and get caught, next time you'll just be smarter about it.

If the OP feels uncomfortable with the relationship, she has every right to tell her husband to knock it off. PERIOD. No explanations needed to anyone.

Why hasn't the woman told the OP that she corresponds with her husband? That in itself raises red flags in my book. Especially since she's cheated on her husband in the past.

I know I wouldn't appreciate it if one of my friends was corresponding frequently with my husband and doesn't mention it to me. What's that all about? Sorry, I'm from the old school--no one plays with my toys but me.

How do you think relationships begin? Many of them begin innocently enough...

This exactly. And I would explain to him it makes you uncomfortable. He should stop communicating with her if he is putting you first.

 

[Miniefan]

And for the record I do think a man and a woman can be just friends. But it is harder to believe it in this situation given all the variables.

S

Ok, for the record, yes men and women can be just friends, but here is what I think about this tidbit. A man can have friends that are women, but in my mind it is hard to make friends and hang out or chat/email/call back and forth with them once that man is married or in a relationship, because if you really believed that men and women could just be friends, then his previous on-line "friends" wouldn't have been a problem right? I'm not trying to have a debate but I just feel like once a man is married or in a relationship, he truly can't make new women friends without that possibly creating a problem. If they were already friends before they were married then that would be different.

I know you have heard this before, but the proof is in the pudding. Your friend in so many words told you what is going on and is trying to prepare you for the inevitable. I believe she is making plans on your husband, maybe not entirely to his knowledge either. Why on earth would she be communicating and confiding in him instead of you or another friend. Also, why are they both keeping their friendship quiet? I tell my kids all the time, it's not good to keep secrets, that nothing good comes of it and people end up getting hurt. There is truth in that, and I truly believe that if you ever feel the need to conceal anything then you know it's wrong. Think about that a little.

I am really sorry this is happening to you, and I know you have stated that you don't want to put the kids through a divorce, but what are you putting them through by making yourself crazy with mistrust, you may think that they don't know what's going on but believe me they at least know something isn't right. Divorce may not be the solution, and you may be able to work through this but nothing is going to change unless you speak up and confront the situation head on. This woman is not your friend, that I know to be true. I hope that everything works out. My parents had what apeared to be good relationship, I remembered them having other activities and being gone a lot, but I thought they were just balanced. Turns out, not the truth, my dad cheated a lot, and my mom tried to not put us through the divorce, but honestly in the end, after 25 years the only regret my mom had was that she waited so long, becuase the whole time, she was so unhappy. I hope that some of this helps you in any way, hugs and prayers for you.

Kim

 

[Miniefan]

For the most part the emails I have seen have been on a weekly basis, with every other one maybe being twice weekly. A few times their answers did not line up, but then she mentioned replying to his work email and then gave him her hotmail. I admit I do not have access to his work email, so I am not sure what was talked about there. It did tick me off to read that though because of the "full disclosure" commitment. So, am I blowing it all out of proportion? I just don't know. Why does she tell my DH, whom she know works an opposite shift to mine, when her husband is out if town? Why would it even be relevant if you are just playing a game?

S

I think you know the answer to these questions, like I said, your "friend" has already tried to tell you her intentions. Sorry, it just sucks. If they were just playing an online game then why do they need to email anyways, they could just talk, chat and message thru facebook right? Why the need for email at all much less the email you know, a work email, and a hotmail account, Really?

 

[Miniefan]

Do you really think her husband is going to be stupid enough to write anything that would incriminate him knowing she has access to his accounts?

I don't believe once a cheater always a cheater, but I do believe that if you cheat once and get caught, next time you'll just be smarter about it.

If the OP feels uncomfortable with the relationship, she has every right to tell her husband to knock it off. PERIOD. No explanations needed to anyone.

Why hasn't the woman told the OP that she corresponds with her husband? That in itself raises red flags in my book. Especially since she's cheated on her husband in the past.

I know I wouldn't appreciate it if one of my friends was corresponding frequently with my husband and doesn't mention it to me. What's that all about? Sorry, I'm from the old school--no one plays with my toys but me.

How do you think relationships begin? Many of them begin innocently enough...

I totally agree 100%. OP, take some advice, at least confront the problem and don't be left not knowing whats going on. I am sorry.

 

[krcit]

Do you really think her husband is going to be stupid enough to write anything that would incriminate him knowing she has access to his accounts?

I don't believe once a cheater always a cheater, but I do believe that if you cheat once and get caught, next time you'll just be smarter about it.

If the OP feels uncomfortable with the relationship, she has every right to tell her husband to knock it off. PERIOD. No explanations needed to anyone.

Why hasn't the woman told the OP that she corresponds with her husband? That in itself raises red flags in my book. Especially since she's cheated on her husband in the past.

I know I wouldn't appreciate it if one of my friends was corresponding frequently with my husband and doesn't mention it to me. What's that all about? Sorry, I'm from the old school--no one plays with my toys but me.

How do you think relationships begin? Many of them begin innocently enough...

ITA with this. And the business about different emails? weird...don't peope usuay just use the same email addy to tak to each other. What about his cel phone? have you checked the records? That would be the first thing I did? if there are cals to/from her then you know what you are deaing with. I would be armed with as much info as I coud be before I confronted him. I'm sorry OP. This sucks. I want to punch your 'friend' in the face because even if nothing has happened yet, she's making a move on your DH and that is disgusting.