Open letter to Disney concerning new TSA full body scan.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Hi Kayieeldr,

Please calm down, those few folks are not worth you getting high blood pressure.

Most of us trying to look at this whole thing logically have just given up trying to get them to think with some common sense.. they don't want common sense .they just want to live in their fantasy world....and to attack TSA for some personal reasons

You post was needed about 15 pages ago, but it not worth your time and patients anymore....the systems are going to be put in place and likely adjusted over time....and all their babling will not change it and they will fly whether they admit it or not!

Have a good day

AKK

 

[OhioDisneyDad]

I haven't read this whole thread but it would seem that some folks seem to think that there's no way anyone would ever abuse these scanners and that the government has been very truthful and forthcoming with its intentions.

It seems that this is not the case. Here is a brief excerpt from an August 2010 article titled, "Feds admit storing checkpoint body scan images"

For the last few years, federal agencies have defended body scanning by insisting that all images will be discarded as soon as they're viewed. The Transportation Security Administration claimed last summer, for instance, that "scanned images cannot be stored or recorded."

Now it turns out that some police agencies are storing the controversial images after all. The U.S. Marshals Service admitted this week that it had surreptitiously saved tens of thousands of images recorded with a millimeter wave system at the security checkpoint of a single Florida courthouse.

This follows an earlier disclosure (PDF) by the TSA that it requires all airport body scanners it purchases to be able to store and transmit images for "testing, training, and evaluation purposes." The agency says, however, that those capabilities are not normally activated when the devices are installed at airports.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html#ixzz13wYSZaeT

Remember one of the three biggest lies: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you." Why would the TSA (or any agency) need to store or, worse yet, transmit any of these images? Especially after having swore up and down that they weren't going to do so. Maybe they're not the that some folks would like to believe?

You can also read about the pending EPIC (Electronic Privacy Information Center) lawsuit regarding suspending the use of the body scanners here: http://epic.org/privacy/body_scanners/epic_v_dhs_suspension_of_body.html

 

[eliza61]

so could you please clarify this for me...is it only the security employee who can see one's image, or can passing travelers see it, too?

The way philly is set up only the person behind a closed door room can see the images. They are totally seperate from the passing travelers. I did not see any type of video monitors at all.


The TSA security officer working with a passenger does not see the image, and the officer viewing the image is in another location and does not see the passenger.

Officers communicate wirelessly over a headset to clear the passenger for travel.
Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/busine..._option_of_full-body_scans.html#ixzz13wzk9A00

 

[eliza61]

I haven't read this whole thread but it would seem that some folks seem to think that there's no way anyone would ever abuse these scanners and that the government has been very truthful and forthcoming with its intentions.

It seems that this is not the case. Here is a brief excerpt from an August 2010 article titled, "Feds admit storing checkpoint body scan images"

For the last few years, federal agencies have defended body scanning by insisting that all images will be discarded as soon as they're viewed. The Transportation Security Administration claimed last summer, for instance, that "scanned images cannot be stored or recorded."

Now it turns out that some police agencies are storing the controversial images after all. The U.S. Marshals Service admitted this week that it had surreptitiously saved tens of thousands of images recorded with a millimeter wave system at the security checkpoint of a single Florida courthouse.

This follows an earlier disclosure (PDF) by the TSA that it requires all airport body scanners it purchases to be able to store and transmit images for "testing, training, and evaluation purposes." The agency says, however, that those capabilities are not normally activated when the devices are installed at airports.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html#ixzz13wYSZaeT

Remember one of the three biggest lies: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you." Why would the TSA (or any agency) need to store or, worse yet, transmit any of these images? Especially after having swore up and down that they weren't going to do so. Maybe they're not the that some folks would like to believe?

You can also read about the pending EPIC (Electronic Privacy Information Center) lawsuit regarding suspending the use of the body scanners here: http://epic.org/privacy/body_scanners/epic_v_dhs_suspension_of_body.html

Of course we don't think that. Listen, any time HUMANS are involved there is the chance that some one is going to try and run a scam. From Enron, Bernie Madolf, crooked cops, TSA agents, to umpires throwing play off games. Fraud runs up and down the gamut.

Heck, today is Holloween, you know how many "dangers of holloween candy" stories have been on the news? So do I now not trust every candy manufacturer and don't eat another drop of candy? I'll take my chances with my baby ruth bar.

On line shopping? every site swears its safe yet employees do steal credit card information and identity theft is still a problem.
You can go on and on until the cows come home.

The object is to exercise a little common sense, you know the thing we use to call "the middle ground"

1) all TSA agents are not Freddie kruger ready to pounce on unsuspecting air travelers and sell their pictures on the web.

2) every time I have gone through the scanners, so far 5 times. 2 in Philly and 3 times oversees. The agents have been nothing but professional, courteous and reassuring. They have bent over backwards to calm a neurotic and parnoid public.

Also in Philly, since it's a new installation, some of the gates have TSA or airport officials (I couldn't tell who they worked for) who have answered any questions the passengers have ask. They seem to be able to asnwer about the amount of radiation and who sees the scans.

Now yes, I guess they could be lying but I'm not about to start worrying if every offical at the airport is lying to me.

sorry, I've got 3 kids to get into college, a dog to get to the vet and a father in law who is in the hospital. When I fly out in two weeks, I'm going have to let this concern go. only so much I can deal with and in the grand scheme of things, this one is about 599 out of 600

 

[ironz]

Thanks, Eliza61, for your statement about we need to use common sense.

Kaytieeldr and others....those of us who come across as anti-TSA, are not anti-security. We just oppose some of the methods used because they are getting out of hand, and TSA has not caught one terrorist, but are making MILLIONS of people suffer.

My point is....here on the no pixie dust board, where people should be able to tell people their thoughts and talk about travel without sugarcoating it... people need to make INFORMED DECISIONS about how they will handle security/TSA. Sorry, but the "anything for security" attitude and refusal to listen to anyone else who feels otherwise, is JUST LIKE those who don't want to pay for seat assignments to sit by their children and not listen to those who suggest they pay for assigned seats.

For me, and from what I have read on FT, CNN, etc.: I am not in favor of the scanners that emit ionizing radiation. We are currently being told, even by the American College of Radiology, that the reported level of radiation is very low. But is every airport going to have a Radiation Safety Officer as is required at imaging facilities? Are we sure they are going to keep the machines calibrated? Are they going to have to step up the radiation for larger people, like in medical imaging? Even in the hands of trained professionals (in the field of imaging), mistakes have happened and people have had harmful levels of radiation. I'm a radiologist....so this IS of concern to me. I wouldn't want to have a child or pregnant woman irradiated more than they need to be. I don't want extra radiation myself. If I were a cancer patient that had been treated with radiation and had multiple CT scans over the course of my disease, I would not want extra radiation. It is cumulative over one's lifetime. period.
Yes, there is radiation exposure by the flight, but the flight is necessary. The scan is not, as I can get a pat-down. (or just be cleared through the WTMD)

Another concern with the scan is that they are already saying that they wouldn't have picked up the underwear bomber with it. So is it really doing any good? It also won't pick up anything in a body cavity. NONE of the methods will....are people going to be willing to have cavity searches if it comes to that? I wouldn't put it past a terrorist to do that in the future.

My other beef is that the pat-downs are being more intrusive. People have reported significant fondling. They aren't keeping us more safe by making us dump our water bottles and they aren't keeping us safe by groping our breasts.


Anyway....people, just please make an INFORMED DECISION. You have the RIGHT to OPT OUT of the scan if you want. Think about your options.

Hopefully, the agents will act within reason at your airports.
I fly 10+ flights a month. Of course these aren't issues for your yearly trip to WDW, but let's not be short-sighted.

 

[ford91exploder]

Wife got the 'nude-o-scope' and a grope by Male TSA employee in MCO last week - Yes she is young and attractive.

This is NOT security this is government asserting that it has complete control over it's 'Subjects'

 

[goofy4tink]

It's nice to see some prevailing common sense here. I am not so happy when I see an entire group of people tarred with the same brush. There are some of you out there who feel that 'all' TSA agents are power hungry bullies. And I say that's not so. I fly more frequently than the average person...I know what is being said on boards like these, so always go into the security line with eyes open, just to see what the 'attitudes' of the TSA agents are like. And you know what? Only once have I run into a TSA agent who was 'snippier' than I would have liked. But, she was presented with seeing something very strange in my carryon bag, so reacted to it. I can understand that...she had no idea what the story was. Could she have been a bit more polite? Yes, without a doubt. But she certainly could not be called a bully.
Other agents have actually had terrific senses of humor. But, maybe that's me...I'm not going in looking for a fight.

Are there bullies that are TSA agents? Sure there are. Just like there are bulllies hiding behind police badges, or teaching credentials. Even priests can be bullies. No occupation is without their own bullies.

And are the proceedures keeping us safe?? Most probably not. It probably is 'theater'....but it makes many feel safe. And when the majority of people start complaining about their unalienable rights being taken away by TSA security measures, then will you see changes to those preceedures. But I just can't wrap my mind around what you all are saying here.....there really aren't all that many TSA agents that are going to be interested in 'nude' photos of you all, there aren't all that many TSA agents who are thrilled to be 'groping' you during pat downs. There are plenty of fine, upstanding men and women just doing their jobs for the TSA..and you are really doing them a disservice by saying they are bullies or perverts. That's just not fair.

They are doing what they are told to do by their bosses. You want to change things? Then don't make their lives miserable..go above them, way above them, to the idiots sitting around that mahogany table, making those stupid decisions about how we are going to be treated at security points.

This thread is close to being done. There will be no more trashing of the TSA agents as a whole.

 

[disney david]

Wife got the 'nude-o-scope' and a grope by Male TSA employee in MCO last week - Yes she is young and attractive.

This is NOT security this is government asserting that it has complete control over it's 'Subjects'

Male officers are not allowed to search females police or tsa if a female needs to be searchedthey call a female to do it. At every airport I been to they way need a female search or male search. The tsa won't allow a male to search a female or a female to search a male it to much of a risk they will claim they got touched wrong. Then they will of course be sued and have to pay lots of money. Most women won't let a male officer search them so mybe the tsa agent thought since she didn't say she wanted a female which she shouldn't have to it is automatic that a female get searched by a female agent.


By the way it not the Tsa agent at the airport idea to put these machines in the have to use them. Because the higher ups tell them to so don't take it out on them it their job. Just like you have a job to do so do they so cut it out with bashing a tsa agent your not happy write the dhs and see how far that will get you. Most likely they won't care their not their to Care if people don't like using the machine they are their to provide securty. Just go on tsa.gov click the contact us button and write them all your problems and concerns with the new machines and let them know how unhappy some of you are with them. This is a forum for Disney not tsa or the gov so it just a waste of your time to complain on hear about them.

 

[linzbear]

You can also read about the pending EPIC (Electronic Privacy Information Center) lawsuit regarding suspending the use of the body scanners here: http://epic.org/privacy/body_scanners/epic_v_dhs_suspension_of_body.html

This was really interesting and informative, thanks! This is one of my biggest peeves about the whole thing; that it's an invasion of privacy. It amazes me how many people are willing to give up privacy for the illusion that they are safer.

For me, and from what I have read on FT, CNN, etc.: I am not in favor of the scanners that emit ionizing radiation. We are currently being told, even by the American College of Radiology, that the reported level of radiation is very low. But is every airport going to have a Radiation Safety Officer as is required at imaging facilities? Are we sure they are going to keep the machines calibrated? Are they going to have to step up the radiation for larger people, like in medical imaging? Even in the hands of trained professionals (in the field of imaging), mistakes have happened and people have had harmful levels of radiation. I'm a radiologist....so this IS of concern to me. I wouldn't want to have a child or pregnant woman irradiated more than they need to be. I don't want extra radiation myself. If I were a cancer patient that had been treated with radiation and had multiple CT scans over the course of my disease, I would not want extra radiation. It is cumulative over one's lifetime. period.
Yes, there is radiation exposure by the flight, but the flight is necessary. The scan is not, as I can get a pat-down. (or just be cleared through the WTMD)

This is my other major peeve. It bothers me when it is said that you'll get the same exposure on the flight, so no biggie. But if I go through the backscatter machine, I end up with X+Y radiation; if I choose to opt out, I get just X radiation.

I also don't really trust anyone besides my loved ones (and that's sometimes a stretch! ) to do right by me and my family. I don't trust that there isn't a bad apple out there who wants to keep my and my kids' backscatter images for some other purpose besides 'safety' in the airport.

 

[Jetsong]

I am a 58 year old woman who gets patted down EVERY time I fly...I have an artificial knee that sets the scanner off every time....I just accept it and go on my way...always been patted down by a female. I really doubt they want to send me through the nude scanner but who knows...maybe a young guy looking for a couger.......

 

[padawans]

I am a 58 year old woman who gets patted down EVERY time I fly...I have an artificial knee that sets the scanner off every time....I just accept it and go on my way...always been patted down by a female. I really doubt they want to send me through the nude scanner but who knows...maybe a young guy looking for a couger.......

Your pat downs are about to get much more personal.

 

[padawans]

I haven't read this whole thread but it would seem that some folks seem to think that there's no way anyone would ever abuse these scanners and that the government has been very truthful and forthcoming with its intentions.

It seems that this is not the case. Here is a brief excerpt from an August 2010 article titled, "Feds admit storing checkpoint body scan images"

For the last few years, federal agencies have defended body scanning by insisting that all images will be discarded as soon as they're viewed. The Transportation Security Administration claimed last summer, for instance, that "scanned images cannot be stored or recorded."

Now it turns out that some police agencies are storing the controversial images after all. The U.S. Marshals Service admitted this week that it had surreptitiously saved tens of thousands of images recorded with a millimeter wave system at the security checkpoint of a single Florida courthouse.

This follows an earlier disclosure (PDF) by the TSA that it requires all airport body scanners it purchases to be able to store and transmit images for "testing, training, and evaluation purposes." The agency says, however, that those capabilities are not normally activated when the devices are installed at airports.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html#ixzz13wYSZaeT

Remember one of the three biggest lies: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you." Why would the TSA (or any agency) need to store or, worse yet, transmit any of these images? Especially after having swore up and down that they weren't going to do so. Maybe they're not the that some folks would like to believe?

You can also read about the pending EPIC (Electronic Privacy Information Center) lawsuit regarding suspending the use of the body scanners here: http://epic.org/privacy/body_scanners/epic_v_dhs_suspension_of_body.html

Thank you for posting the articles. I could post a hundred articles about what are gov. has really been up to, but it is much too controversial for these boards. I hope some day people will start to question the controlled mainstream media and cable news, start researching things for themselves, and use their critical thinking skills. I am afraid we have become a society thats more concerned with what happens to Linsay Lohan and Snooky. Blaming the tsa is putting the blame in the wrong place. They do not write the policy. I could never do their job and treat people the way they are required to treat people so I think thats why some of us don't have a lot of respect for what they do.

 

[CPT Tripss]

SNIP

Are there bullies that are TSA agents? Sure there are. Just like there are bulllies hiding behind police badges, or teaching credentials. Even priests can be bullies. No occupation is without their own bullies.

And are the proceedures keeping us safe?? Most probably not. It probably is 'theater'....but it makes many feel safe. And when the majority of people start complaining about their unalienable rights being taken away by TSA security measures, then will you see changes to those preceedures.

SNIP

They are doing what they are told to do by their bosses. This thread is close to being done.

SNIP

There will be no more trashing of the TSA agents as a whole.

Dude are you sure you want to say that here?

 

[toocherie]

I'm not a big fan of the scanning thing, however, I will gladly subject myself and my family to it if it means EVERYONE on that plane has been screened also.
I may be of an unpopular opinion here, and I am throwing political correctness aside here... I PANIC whenever I see one or two 20-something middle eastern men travelling with either no carry on or just a small laptop bag. Yes, I know 9 years have gone by now since 9/11, but coming from Staten Island it had a huge impact here. So, forgive my opinion if you disagree, but I'll deal with the miniscule amounts of radiation and I'll be happy that everyone else does too.

Ditto!

Only once have I run into a TSA agent who was 'snippier' than I would have liked.

I am a 58 year old woman who gets patted down EVERY time I fly...I have an artificial knee that sets the scanner off every time....I just accept it and go on my way...always been patted down by a female. I really doubt they want to send me through the nude scanner but who knows...maybe a young guy looking for a couger.......

I raise you one artificial knee (I had double knee replacements)! I always get the pat down too--and when I travel with my Mom she does too because she is on her personal scooter. We have always been treated by the TSA Agents with utmost respect and kindness. Of course, we try to be friendly and nice back too--and we leave early for the airport knowing that we are going to have to go through "special screening"--ok it may be more "personal" in the future but so be it. It can be my thrill for the day!

 

[eliza61]

Thank you for posting the articles. I could post a hundred articles about what are gov. has really been up to, but it is much too controversial for these boards. I hope some day people will start to question the controlled mainstream media and cable news, start researching things for themselves, and use their critical thinking skills. I am afraid we have become a society thats more concerned with what happens to Linsay Lohan and Snooky. Blaming the tsa is putting the blame in the wrong place. They do not write the policy. I could never do their job and treat people the way they are required to treat people so I think thats why some of us don't have a lot of respect for what they do.

I don't think it's a matter of uninformed. No matter what the job requirement it can always be done with dignity and respect.
Every place that I've flown so far with scanners, has offered the conventional screening and a pat down in lieu of the body scan. My flight last thursday, 3 women went for the pat down. they were assisted by a female employee and quickly wand scanned and pat down. Not one of them complained or found it distasteful. not one liken it to "groping".

My critical thinking skill are intact. I like to travel. I like to travel internationally. I do have choices.
1) get use to the scanners as I believe they will be in wide spread use.
2) opt out of the scanning and go for the pat down.
3) stop travelling via air.

Option 3 is not a viable option, I love travelling and refuse to give it up.
So since this is my choice, I will accept the inherent risk, including the one where government agents are gawking at the fuzzy image of an overweight, over 50 women or tracking my every step via my scan.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Pope enters airport body scanners row - Benedict addresses plans for 'virtually naked' passenger images, telling airport bosses personal integrity must be safeguarded
This is old but the article is worth a read.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/21/pope-benedict-naked-scanners-airports

 

[goofy4tink]

Dude are you sure you want to say that here?

Yep...this 'dude' has no problem with that.

 

[safetymom]

http://www.consumertraveler.com/col..._campaign=Feed:+tripso+(Consumertraveler.com)

I think this article makes many valid points.

 

[blissventure]

http://www.consumertraveler.com/col..._campaign=Feed:+tripso+(Consumertraveler.com)

I think this article makes many valid points.

Great article, and my personal experience was that it is a VERY slow process. Sent to scanner, folks in front of me, wait in line. Wait a good while to get into the scanner. Then, after the "scan" is done, I was waiting with a TSA person talking into her shoulder mike. I wait, and wait.... She's communicating with the person who's viewing my pictures. They are talking, I can only hear 1/2 the conversation. They talk...and talk... I wait. Note: I had on a t-shirt that had a lightly done outline of the Eiffel tower on one side in teeny metal dots. The TSA person continues conversing into her mike: "No, I told you, that's not her, look again. (I continue to wait.) Yea, that's her that's the Eiffel tower you're seeing." TSA person then says I can go....I guess me and my t-shirt did our part for national security.

For many reasons, time being a big one, I now look for the family line at our airport. So far it appears to me they don't seem to force folks from the family line into the scanner. (Or, of course, one could opt out for an enhanced pat down.)
Time matters to me. I want to get through security efficiently.

 

[eliza61]

http://www.consumertraveler.com/col..._campaign=Feed:+tripso+(Consumertraveler.com)

I think this article makes many valid points.

I think these are the general points that have been expressed since the beginning. most folks with medical conditions are advised to opt out and all the normal health warnings are broadly articulated. that's nothing new.
As far as "trusting" TSA, they are no more or less "untrustworthy" than the FDA or DEA. Do the agents "know" the science behind these machines, I doubt it. If they did tell me the name of the machine I was going thru would I be able to say if it was safe or not? nope and I'm a ph.d chemist. So that's pretty much a non argument.

Great article, and my personal experience was that it is a VERY slow process. Sent to scanner, folks in front of me, wait in line. Wait a good while to get into the scanner. Then, after the "scan" is done, I was waiting with a TSA person talking into her shoulder mike. I wait, and wait.
For many reasons, time being a big one, I now look for the family line at our airport. So far it appears to me they don't seem to force folks from the family line into the scanner. (Or, of course, one could opt out for an enhanced pat down.)
Time matters to me. I want to get through security efficiently.

My experiences have been the total opposite. It may be that here in the US we are relatively babes in the woods as far as security goes. London and Tel Aviv are pros at moving people efficiently, unfortunately they have had to be so maybe thats a sad thing.

So far Philly's scanners have caused no more time delay than I find on any other normal weekday.
Now I do arrive at the airport a good 90 minutes before my flight and since I generally fly for business I know how to unload and reload my bags, purses, pockets etc for quick movement.

I've got a flight from Philly to Chicago on Thursday morning I'll report back. I would try and take a few pics but I know how well that would go over.