Only five more years of DHS being incredibly bad!!!!

[lockedoutlogic]

Yes WDW is great and all of us love it that's why we are on this board. Being big fans we have a right to voice our opinions when something is wrong. If everything was perfect there would be no disboards. Disney doesn't build things fast that's a fact. That's usually the biggest complaint when projects like this are being discussed.

To go a step
Further...I can only speak for myself...but I'm not verbally throwing a tantrum saying "I want Star Wars now!!"

This is multiple decades of research - and even some real honest work/life experience - evaluating the industry and the Disney MO and setting a dangerous trend/tact by what is - for the very first time in dman near 90 years - a completly Wall Street suit run Disney. There is no sage, no foil, no wisdom that may push for tradition and quality - that leads to consumer relationship strengthening...that Disney always had till about 2005. There's no yoda - to be frank.

I don't begrudge anyone any opinions...i love when they have real hard objective facts, events, or even opinions attached. I change my mind on things due to debate here far more than I let on....

But "if you don't like it...go somewhere else" hits as close to a "go pound" sentiment as I have. It's so mentally weak...and sad that anyone advocates another sentient turning their brain off to not question a for profit company - plain and simple.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They don't, there was only a small part of the expansion that went on top of the utilidors.

The majority of the area was 20,000 leagues... Which was off the utilidoor grid. Magic kingdom and the original property site work Was an absolute engineering marvel - probably Disney's greatest achievement in 3 dimensional time and space still to this day...

...they were far too intelligent then to put the tunnels under a gigantic swimming pool that weighed about a billion tons. Water is heavy.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Like Disney needed an excuse? What was the justification for the ~70 - 100% price increases seen from 2000 - 2010?

They do kinda need an excuse to roll out the 25% increase on tiered pricing...

Which conveniently might be getting ready to take off

Is there anyone out there that still thinks they floated that for "research purposes"?

 

[Josh Hendy]

for the very first time in dman near 90 years - a completly Wall Street suit run Disney. There is no sage, no foil, no wisdom that may push for tradition and quality - that leads to consumer relationship strengthening...that Disney always had till about 2005.

I haven't studied Iger and his living, working and sleeping habits too closely (or at all) but that is the entire impression that I get.

Based on what I see at WDW, Iger doesn't feel much need to be perceived as being a generous, committed person who more than anything else wants to put the best theme park before the public ... not because he's a fool but because he knows that as long as normal, prudent business practices are followed, the profits will always come from a quality product.

CEOs have to be able to put on their game face and keep it on ... not just for the shareholders but for the employees and the public as well. They have to convey the idea that they're totally dedicated to all three of those groups. And that they feel that way because they know that long term business success requires that all three groups be happy.

Instead the impression I get is more like ...

"How can we get more revenues without increasing OpEx or CapEx? More hard tickets!"

"If we cut down the size of that coaster, push it out another year and reduce the number of new kiddie rides from 4 to 2 in the phase of expansion that follows, can we still get as big a publicity splash?"

"Those [movie franchise fans] are nuts. Put that new land on the back burner. Show them those paintings and then fob 'em off with a special meal and a photo op."

This is only my impression.

Even if it's not your own impression, do you really get the feeling that Iger is doing an excellent job convincing the public that he totally understands what they want in a theme park? Or at least that he's doing a good job faking it? Your impressions are just as valid as mine ... but there's a paper boy over at Epcot who agrees with me.

 

[Eoghann]

do you really get the feeling that Iger is doing an excellent job convincing the public that he totally understands what they want in a theme park

I don't think the public knows who the CEO of Disney is, nor do they care. He's a corporate CEO so he is talking to the board and the shareholders because he knows perfectly well that those are really the only people who matter when you're running a big publicly owned company these days. You have to worry about the Quarterly Earnings Calls and "being on message". Long term investment and planning is a foreign concept.

Could this approach sour people on Disney theme parks? Eventually yes, but not for years which mean's it's not something they care about.

This is not unique to Disney, you can pretty much replace it with any other corporate behemoth which is no longer run by its founders.

 

[MarkE83]

The constant whining and complaining on these boards is just ridiculous. WDW is still awesome and a great place to have fun. If you hate it so much than stop going, forget all about it, and go somewhere else.

This is the internet, it's where all the die hard fans of a product go to moan. I am an active member of forums about another brand / TV show and several members have done nothing but complain about it for years on end, yet still tune in week in, week out. I don't get it... Disney is a fantastic place to vacation, but it's not the ONLY place. So many people could remedy their distain for places by just not visiting them. You think DHS is rubbish? Spend an extra day in one of the five other parks Disney own. Go to universal, Busch gardens, anything. Go to California, go to New York, Paris, anywhere...

By opening Star Wars Land in 3 years time, it will allow them to heavily feature characters and theming from two new films, along with the classic ones- and I'll bet there is more current theming than classic. These expansions will be there for the next 20+ years, and will need the 10-15 year olds of now to want to visit them for their entire lives.

No matter how long they spread out the cost of the expansions, 20 years, 30 years... The cash has to be stumped up NOW/ over the next 3 years. It's going to hurt them from a working capital point of view, and as big as they are, they can't put all their eggs in one basket- who knows what else they are working on that will tie up mountains of cash- the most likely being something similar to a Netflix/Hulu/WWE network style over the top distribution system for all of their content where 100% of the revenue goes directly to Disney- but developing that, transferring the library to appropriate formats etc takes time and money.

A lot of people easily forget that the parks aren't the only thing Disney has to worry about right now. Juggling everything is a difficult act, but one I think they are currently doing well.

 

[DDLand]

This is the internet, it's where all the die hard fans of a product go to moan. I am an active member of forums about another brand / TV show and several members have done nothing but complain about it for years on end, yet still tune in week in, week out. I don't get it... Disney is a fantastic place to vacation, but it's not the ONLY place. So many people could remedy their distain for places by just not visiting them. You think DHS is rubbish? Spend an extra day in one of the five other parks Disney own. Go to universal, Busch gardens, anything. Go to California, go to New York, Paris, anywhere...

By opening Star Wars Land in 3 years time, it will allow them to heavily feature characters and theming from two new films, along with the classic ones- and I'll bet there is more current theming than classic. These expansions will be there for the next 20+ years, and will need the 10-15 year olds of now to want to visit them for their entire lives.

No matter how long they spread out the cost of the expansions, 20 years, 30 years... The cash has to be stumped up NOW/ over the next 3 years. It's going to hurt them from a working capital point of view, and as big as they are, they can't put all their eggs in one basket- who knows what else they are working on that will tie up mountains of cash- the most likely being something similar to a Netflix/Hulu/WWE network style over the top distribution system for all of their content where 100% of the revenue goes directly to Disney- but developing that, transferring the library to appropriate formats etc takes time and money.

A lot of people easily forget that the parks aren't the only thing Disney has to worry about right now. Juggling everything is a difficult act, but one I think they are currently doing well.

The problem lies in the fact that some of people's favorite attractions are held hostage by that crappy park. You want TOT? You have to pay a weighty price to access it. You want Star Tours? Same thing. If I want access to some of the portfolio of attractions at MK, I know I'm getting good product. Not the same thing for DHS. Additionally they've broken one of the 4 parks, and it will take at least 5 (not 3 until SW drops) years to fix it.

I also think I've seen a fair amount of people say they're going to stop going to DHS or going less.

 

[tjkraz]

Tickets...by all personal experience with a little insight I to the books and really just common sense...are not to make profits - merely to be allocated buy and large to cover the operational expenses.

So, as Disney has increased ticket prices 60-100% over the last decade (pick whatever figure you wish to use from the prior comments in this thread), are you suggesting that operational costs also rose by that same amount?

 

[tjkraz]

I was wondering why it took so long for someone to come along and tell the OP to quit going. There's always that suggestion which helps no one.

True..saying "quit going" accomplishes nothing.

At the same time, criticizing, complaining, and otherwise playing armchair CEO / Imagineer on an Internet discussion board also accomplishes nothing.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

So, as Disney has increased ticket prices 60-100% over the last decade (pick whatever figure you wish to use from the prior comments in this thread), are you suggesting that operational costs also rose by that same amount?

I'm sure there has been some "divergence" on that front...

However I'm also sure that TWDC...on paper...has most of that difference officially accounted to the "incredible rise in the cost of compensation and benefit obligations" to their employees.

A public traded company can still twist the facts in their favor...short of going the Enron route.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

True..saying "quit going" accomplishes nothing.

At the same time, criticizing, complaining, and otherwise playing armchair CEO / Imagineer on an Internet discussion board also accomplishes nothing.

I disagree...

One has the possibility (not guaranteed) of leading to some constructive thought...

The other a 20th century/Gipper era fantasy that shows a lack of thought

 

[tjkraz]

However I'm also sure that TWDC...on paper...has most of that difference officially accounted to the "incredible rise in the cost of compensation and benefit obligations" to their employees.

A public traded company can still twist the facts in their favor...short of going the Enron route.

Regardless of how they choose to massage the numbers, a 10% (or 35%) increase in ticket prices vs. a 3% rise in actual operating expenses has a net positive impact on the bottom line.

I disagree...

One has the possibility (not guaranteed) of leading to some constructive thought...

The other a 20th century/Gipper era fantasy that shows a lack of thought

So which is which? I tend to think that consumers voting with their wallets--lowering hotel occupancy, park attendance and overall profitability--will get their attention faster than a group of regulars skewing execs on the DIS.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I tend to think that consumers voting with their wallets--lowering hotel occupancy, park attendance and overall profitability--will get their attention faster than a group of regulars skewing execs on the DIS.

For sure. But this isn't about trying to change the world, it's about letting off steam and sharing impressions with other people with similar interests ... the give-and-take of news, opinions and ideas.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

So which is which? I tend to think that consumers voting with their wallets--lowering hotel occupancy, park attendance and overall profitability--will get their attention faster than a group of regulars skewing execs on the DIS.

You have to read it in the mirror backwards to figure it out

Lol...if you go back and read any of my rants/diatribes...there's a "hidden message" in all of them...

That the consumers need to stiffen the vertebrae when the pricing policies diminish the value of their dollars at wdw...it's destructive to the soul of the place and the collective consumers. So while I am still - even today - In virtual awe of alot that they built in Florida (particularly), the largely consistent Igerian tact had been to see "how far we can go".

Just business? That's one stance I suppose. But he should have read up on exactly what business he was taking over In 2004...not like he had much to do with the creampuff position he had from 96-2004...

Because I hate to tell you Bob, but what gave you this ironclad IP foundation that you have exploited in the parks was NEVER "just business".

Oh dear...have I given away my evil "anti-Disney" agenda?

 

[Planogirl]

True..saying "quit going" accomplishes nothing.

At the same time, criticizing, complaining, and otherwise playing armchair CEO / Imagineer on an Internet discussion board also accomplishes nothing.

I see it as a discussion. I don't see a way to really discuss the concept of not going. However people can talk about the state of Disney both good and bad.

 

[eXo]

Discussion requires listening AND responding. Most of these replies can be boiled down to "there is no truth in what you say, this is how it is".

Try having a "discussion" like that with a real person and let me know how long it takes them to either walk away or tell you to knock off your whining.

Most of the criticisms here aren't open for discussion. They are bleated as facts, and anyone who disagrees is an apologist / disney-sheep / needs to have their head checked / etc.

 

[Josh Hendy]

You see what I mean about letting of steam? That felt better, didn't it!

 

[xipetotec]

I love the look and feel of DHS. It reminds me of DCA, which is awesome. I am looking forward to my next trip during Star Wars Weekends, so that I can spend more time in the park and really get to enjoy the atmosphere. Usually, we don't spend a lot of time there. We are not big into shows, and do not do all of the attractions. However, what is there is really cool. I think it's going to be great when it's done. But this isn't like ripping off a band aid. It's more like training for a marathon.

It's funny that you mention DCA in this context. The one and only time ( as an adult ) that I took my family to the California coast, we were there during DCA's massive overhaul ( building Cars Land ) and let me tell you... it was sad... Yes, there were a few saving attractions like TTT and World of Color ( which IS awesome ). But wow, it felt like "disney's construction park". Fast forward to DHS, I think with the big expansions coming, this is what is going to happen here. Things will need to close down to make room and I think for a good long while, this park ( at least the left side of the park ) will be very very sad...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I concede points to almost everyone over time...no
Matter what the argument is...that is what a healthy debate is.

The problem I have - admittedly - is when the fundamental pillar of the argument continually comes down to "trust Disney... They know what they're doing"

Not only is there growing evidence that at least in parks that is not in fact the case...but even if this where 1997 and there was little argument to what they had built - the consumer should always question the costs and demand more value from the producers...like never take a day off.

You want to talk about " free market"?
A free market will only be sustainable if that practice is followed.

 

[alvernon90]

By opening Star Wars Land in 3 years time

If Star Wars Land is open in three years, I will eat my Mickey ears hat. At DLR they aren't even going to begin construction until the end of 2017, and that is only because they had to promise to start by the end of that year to secure an extension on the tax break for admission tickets.

I'm guessing that DLR will be the first place to open Star Wars Land. There are simply too many people who are willing to keep giving their money to WDW no matter what.