One more census rant...

[FireDancer]

Which is the crux of the argument. Why is it "cringe worthy" to want to be "American Caucasian", when the census allows similar combinations.

I mean, they all seem weird to be (as answer to the stated question), but why are some okay and others not okay?

I don't find it cringe worthy or even incorrect as far as self identification goes. The bolded part is what I was trying to get at, either include all or none, not some and not others.

There is nothing wrong with being proud of who or what you are even if it happens to be part of the majority.

 

[Scurvy]

Neither term is cringe-worthy, strange or bizarre to me on it's own. Neither is the combination if it was used in a different context.

What's bizarre to me is using it as a term to describe one's race. In this case, it seems caucasian is the race, and I see no more need to qualify it with "American" than with one's state of origin. I'm sure if I said my race was "Californian Caucasian", most people would look at me as if I had three heads (not that there's anything wrong with that. )

I can sort of understand why someone might say that. With so many people self-identifying as "Mexican-American", "African-American", "Chinese-American" or the like, it makes sense that someone might automatically include "American" with their race. Sure, "American Caucasian" might sound a little odd, but I don't see why people would think it was any more bizarre or cringe worthy than any of the other "_________-Americans" out there. Is it correct? Probably not. But it doesn't seem any stranger to me than the others. Just as some people call themselves "Mexican Americans" because they are proud of their Mexican heritage, maybe she's proud of her American heritage. If it's important to her, what's the harm of including it when she is identifying herself?

There is nothing wrong with being proud of who or what you are even if it happens to be part of the majority.

 

[Calliaz]

I just don't get the brouhaha over the census. People are really paranoid. One thing that people also fail to mention is that it isn't just funding that is affected by the census. You might get better bus service, more highways and roads, a new traffic light, a McDonald's, a library or a hospital. Census data is used by so many people to accomplish things--both public and private. It is used to make better decisions and choices. If you hate government, there are far better things to do than refuse the census.

 

[marlynnp]

I just don't get the brouhaha over the census. People are really paranoid. One thing that people also fail to mention is that it isn't just funding that is affected by the census. You might get better bus service, more highways and roads, a new traffic light, a McDonald's, a library or a hospital. Census data is used by so many people to accomplish things--both public and private. It is used to make better decisions and choices. If you hate government, there are far better things to do than refuse the census.

THIS!!!


And what did you all do 10 years ago when then asked how many toilets you had? You must not have been old enough or in this country then - heads would have exploded.

 

[moburg]

THIS!!!


And what did you all do 10 years ago when then asked how many toilets you had? You must not have been old enough or in this country then - heads would have exploded.

I received the long form in 2000, and responded with one question answered, number of people. I responded this year, with number of people, but also some of the other questions answered (for genealogical purposes). But as far as the constitutional purposes of the census (apportionment of taxes and congressional seats), the only information needed is number of people. The rest is irrelevant.

If I ever receive the American Community Survey, it will be properly filed... in the trash.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I received the long form in 2000, and responded with one question answered, number of people. I responded this year, with number of people, but also some of the other questions answered (for genealogical purposes). But as far as the constitutional purposes of the census (apportionment of taxes and congressional seats), the only information needed is number of people. The rest is irrelevant.

If I ever receive the American Community Survey, it will be properly filed... in the trash.

Perhaps this is a question I don't want to ask, but here goes. Why do people NOT want to fill these types of things out? Do you think someone is out there doing nefarious things with this information? I guess I don't see the harm in answering these questions. What is so bad about checking a box describing the race you most closely associate yourself with?

 

[moburg]

Perhaps this is a question I don't want to ask, but here goes. Why do people NOT want to fill these types of things out? Do you think someone is out there doing nefarious things with this information? I guess I don't see the harm in answering these questions. What is so bad about checking a box describing the race you most closely associate yourself with?

I like my privacy, and it's none of their business.

And a question back to you, why do they care about race? Its not needed for the apportionment of congressional seats, unless you agree with the practice of gerrymandering, which I don't. Race, age, date of birth, home ownership status, etc, are all irrelevant! For that matter, so are name, gender, relationship, etc. And that doesn't even touch on the intrusive information requested in the American Community Survey. The only relevant piece of information is number of people.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I like my privacy, and it's none of their business.

And a question back to you, why do they care about race? Its not needed for the apportionment of congressional seats, unless you agree with the practice of gerrymandering, which I don't. Race, age, date of birth, home ownership status, etc, are all irrelevant! For that matter, so are name, gender, relationship, etc. And that doesn't even touch on the intrusive information requested in the American Community Survey. The only relevant piece of information is number of people.

If it's an irrelevant question, than my answer is irrelevant also, so I might as well answer it. I guess I just don't see it as a big deal. I have no problem sharing my household income (which is not much at all), my race/heritage, my age, or any of that with people.

I guess it's the same as the guy I see who complains about having to throw his plastic bottle in a separate trash can at work. It's next to the other trash can, what's the big deal?

But I'm an easy going kind of guy, so to some I guess I'm the naive fool.

 

[laurie31]

Age is not irrevelant. How will they know whether to build a daycare or a nursing home?

As for race, wouldn't I be able to tell your race if I saw you walking down the street? How is that a secret?

 

[kaytieeldr]

I never said I had an issue with the census. I see an issue with what the OP did. I included what I said so you could read it again



The bolded areas of what I said are just for you
If possible, notice I said "and looks at ways to press charges" I never gave legal advice. I'll try to make it a more simple, if I were the OP's aunt and found out what had happened, I would seek legal council as to what options might be available to press charges. Wow, know what was said before coming to a forum and responding and looking like a (I won't include the rest of your fine comment) BTW, was the name calling a result of your inability to come up with something more clever to say? Have a terrific day!

But the OP didn't do anything that violated any law. There is no valid reason for anyone to press charges. She simply responded to the enumerator's questions on behalf of a person whose information she knew as allowed and mandated by the census regulations. She filled out - not signed - a section on the enumerator's form indicating that she provided the information by proxy.

I'm genuinely confused why you think the aunt should seek legal counsel. There's absolutely nothing illegal or even questionable about what the OP did. The proxy response option is specifically for someone - e.g. another member of the household - to respond on behalf of or in place of the head of household. The OP and the enumerator together did everything right.

If you disagree, talk to your government representatives before the next census - get it changed.

 

[FireDancer]

But the OP didn't do anything that violated any law. There is no valid reason for anyone to press charges. She simply responded to the enumerator's questions on behalf of a person whose information she knew as allowed and mandated by the census regulations. She filled out - not signed - a section on the enumerator's form indicating that she provided the information by proxy.

I'm genuinely confused why you think the aunt should seek legal counsel. There's absolutely nothing illegal or even questionable about what the OP did. The proxy response option is specifically for someone - e.g. another member of the household - to respond on behalf of or in place of the head of household. The OP and the enumerator together did everything right.

If you disagree, talk to your government representatives before the next census - get it changed.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about the census it is not illegal to answer the census for someone else provided you know the information you are giving to be true. Even if that someone else has explicitly said they don't want to participate there is nothing legal about participating for them.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I can sort of understand why someone might say that. With so many people self-identifying as "Mexican-American", "African-American", "Chinese-American" or the like, it makes sense that someone might automatically include "American" with their race. Sure, "American Caucasian" might sound a little odd, but I don't see why people would think it was any more bizarre or cringe worthy than any of the other "_________-Americans" out there. Is it correct? Probably not. But it doesn't seem any stranger to me than the others. Just as some people call themselves "Mexican Americans" because they are proud of their Mexican heritage, maybe she's proud of her American heritage. If it's important to her, what's the harm of including it when she is identifying herself?

But then it still doesn't make any sense. If her objection is based on "Mexican-American" / "Chinese-American" / "African-American", well, given that those are all origins (either country or continental) the comparable designation for us would be "American-American" or "U.S.A.-American".

Race STILL doesn't fit into any of the self-designations.

 

[Scurvy]

But then it still doesn't make any sense. If her objection is based on "Mexican-American" / "Chinese-American" / "African-American", well, given that those are all origins (either country or continental) the comparable designation for us would be "American-American" or "U.S.A.-American".

Race STILL doesn't fit into any of the self-designations.

I understand that, and I wouldn't answer the way she did. I find it odd, but I don't understand why it's cringe worthy or bizarre. People fixate on strange things when asked to describe themselves. Maybe she thinks that American Caucasians are somewhat different than European Caucasians or Scandinavian Caucasians or any other Caucasians and she wanted to be specific. I assume she thinks that "Caucasian" is her race, and maybe she thinks that "American" is somehow an important modifier for that. I can't claim to know what she was thinking. But "American" is so common these days when people describe themselves, I can see someone who maybe doesn't know any better trying to tack that on to whatever their actual race is. I just don't see the harm in it. I'm not claiming it makes sense, I can just see a weird sort of almost logic in it and I don't think it's a big enough deal to qualify as cringe worthy or bizarre.

 

[disney1990]

Your government appears to think that they are a race - they are labeled as such on the census form posted earlier in the thread.

No, your government does not consider Mexican a race. Question #5 reads, Please look at List C is _________________ of Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin.

Question #6 reads, Please look at List D and choose one or more races. For this census Hispanic origin is not a race. What is ___________'s race?

The race designation is used by businesses to determine the types of stores that might be built in an area because different races shop at different stores. If you don't believe me, go to an area that is mostly Hispanic and take a look at the stores that you see.

I think this horse has been beaten to death. The OP did absolutely nothing wrong. She only provided a proxy for a census form.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't see that the aunt's attitude is cringe-worthy or bizarre in relation to the census questions. I think it's a little odd - but so are lots of things.

What concerns me is the lack of understanding of the differences between nationality and race. I'm extremely sensitive about race, for reasons I don't care to discuss publicly. Effective with this post - i.e. too late for the 2010 Census - I self-identify as:

American-Human​

Period.

 

[Scurvy]

I don't see that the aunt's attitude is cringe-worthy or bizarre in relation to the census questions. I think it's a little odd - but so are lots of things.

What concerns me is the lack of understanding of the differences between nationality and race. I'm extremely sensitive about race, for reasons I don't care to discuss publicly. Effective with this post - i.e. too late for the 2010 Census - I self-identify as:

American-Human​

Period.

I like that!

I do agree, there are lots of people who don't really understand the difference between nationality and race. I guess I'm just so used to it that I don't really give it much thought any more - but I do agree that people ought to be aware of the differences.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Yep.
My heritage is Russian/Hungarian/Lithuanian.
My religion is not up for discussion because this is the DIS and we don't talk about such things here .
My nationality/citizenship is American - because all those other North, Central, and South American countries have specific names that don't include the word "America".
But my race? Human. Always and only.


.

 

[SandrA9810]

wow... I spend one day packing/sweating and now laying down to go to sleep with no power cause she forgot to turn the power on today.... And i have 5 pages to read.

I honestly don't know what my aunt's issue is. I think she's offended by the hispanic question being asked first or something.
I identify myself as german-irish cause i'm stubborn and bullheaded.

Anycase, i know i didn't do anything wrong by filling it out. Just offending her if she finds out, but she has so much more to yell about than that. And tomorrow is going to be one of those days.

She's just as opinionated as i am, and thats where i get it from. But we're on opposite ends ot the spectrum on beliefs. So i've learned to nod my head, say uh huh and slowly change the subject.

BTW, Flin Flon, MB is named after a fictional character.

 

[snapppyd]

I just don't get the brouhaha over the census. People are really paranoid. One thing that people also fail to mention is that it isn't just funding that is affected by the census. You might get better bus service, more highways and roads, a new traffic light, a McDonald's, a library or a hospital. Census data is used by so many people to accomplish things--both public and private. It is used to make better decisions and choices. If you hate government, there are far better things to do than refuse the census.

Which brings us back to: what does nationality or color have to do with bus service??

 

[SandrA9810]

we put nationality on school forms for our kids. Where some district, even in florida have to still follow desegragation laws by having an equal amounts of whites and blacks. Creating huge transportation issue of kids going to schools outside of their neighborhoods.

We fill so much of this information out at various times to various places, it's just one little thing every ten years.

Do i really need to check off that i'm white on the doctor's form when i visit the first time? You would think they could see i'm white.

Certain races are more prone to certain diseases. Isn't sickle cell prone to blacks?? Seniors are more prone to the flu... Or young adults to the swine flu???
I've seen the census reports used on the news when identifying an outbreak of something that is more dangerous to one group than another. So government officials can get to the target areas that need the help.

I'm proud of who i am and have no problems telling the goverment that or any one else. I don't need to hide in a closet....