One about $$$ and one about pools...

[Princess Roo]

I have learned SO much reading through this board! Thank you!

1) Does anyone know what the inflation rate on Disney's "regular" resort rooms have been in the last several years? (It appears that DVD mtc fees have increased ~3-4% per year and I'm curious to compare the two.)

2) How crowded are the pools at DVC compared to the regular resorts? (My concern is that since many people staying at the DVC resorts go to Disney more frequently that they will have more "resort days", making the pools really crowded and one of my pet peeves is not being able to find a chair!) Oh - and are there other little things like that that I should be taking into consideration? I don't care about the reduced cleaning service, for example, but are there other non-published and not-mentioned-recently-on-this-board annoyances?

Thanks in advance!

 

[JimMIA]

I have learned SO much reading through this board! Thank you!

1) Does anyone know what the inflation rate on Disney's "regular" resort rooms have been in the last several years? (It appears that DVD mtc fees have increased ~3-4% per year and I'm curious to compare the two.)

I'd look at a longer period than just the last few years. First you had 9/11, then you had the hurricanes of 2004 (and to a lesser degree of impact, 2005), and those events really skew the numbers for recent years because Disney had to really discount a lot of things to attract visitors during those periods.

2) How crowded are the pools at DVC compared to the regular resorts? (My concern is that since many people staying at the DVC resorts go to Disney more frequently that they will have more "resort days", making the pools really crowded and one of my pet peeves is not being able to find a chair!)

We have never had a problem getting a pool lounge, partially because of the consideration and kindness of other guests. Some guests go to the pools early in the morning and put towels on lounges, so they'll have one available when they return from the theme parks at 4 PM or so. I just ask the lifeguards if it's cool to save lounges, they always say no, and I take the lounge.

If the person who put the towel down confronts me, saying they "saved" the lounge, I just say, "Thanks." DW is less confident; she just says there was no towel there when we sat down. Both strategies work. Simple, easy, foolproof.

 

[tubtruck]

Saving poolside chairs really peevs me too, only problem is the stare I get off DW if I move others towels

 

[MinnieGirl33]

If the person who put the towel down confronts me, saying they "saved" the lounge, I just say, "Thanks."

I think the rack rates go up, on average, about 10% each year.

 

[Princess Roo]

If the person who put the towel down confronts me, saying they "saved" the lounge, I just say, "Thanks." DW is less confident; she just says there was no towel there when we sat down. Both strategies work. Simple, easy, foolproof.

Hmmm...sounds a lot like DH and I. I need to try your wife's approach. Thanks!

 

[kimberh]

Hmmm...sounds a lot like DH and I. I need to try your wife's approach. Thanks!

I like this one too. I saw a family put towels on chairs and then walk on to Epcot. They were dressed for the parks too. It really bothered me. I will have to try DW's approach!

 

[Caskbill]

I hope you're not trying to compare inflation rates on maintenance fees versus inflation for resort rooms. It's apples to oranges in a way.

For example, if someone makes $50,000 year and got a 3% raise, they got $1,500 more per year.

If someone makes $20,000 year and got a 3% raise, they got $600 more per year.

Same percentages, but way less in dollars.

If a WDW resort room costs $150/night, and goes up 5% one year, then the increase is $7.50/night (Actually $8.36 if you include room taxes)

If a DVC studio goes for 11 points/night, and dues are $4.50/point, that means the dues cost $49.50/night for the room. A 5% increase in dues means the DVC studio went up to $52/night, an increase of $2.48/night (there are no additional taxes.

Look forward 20 years and say 5%/year, and today a room costs $150/night ($167 including taxes), then in 20 years it'll cost $379/night ($422 including taxes), an increase of $255/night.

If DVC dues go up 5% a year, then in 20 years the maintenance fees on those 11 points will be $12/point, or $132/night for the room. That's a total increase of $82.50/night. Or only 1/3rd the increase in actual dollars for the hotel room.

This of course does not factor in the initial buy-in, and many have done the full analysis to find the break even point.

The big advantage to DVC is it's tremendous hedge against inflation.

 

[salmoneous]

I think the rack rates go up, on average, about 10% each year.

I've seen numbers - which of course I can't find - showing more like a 3-4%.

 

[d-r]

If the person who put the towel down confronts me, saying they "saved" the lounge, I just say, "Thanks." DW is less confident; she just says there was no towel there when we sat down. Both strategies work. Simple, easy, foolproof.

I've never put a towel on a chair and left it and went somewhere else. But you know, if I am in the pool and you come along and move my towel somewhere I'm going to get hacked. I guess you'd see my room card or shoes or something. I'm just not sure how you know someone is at the park versus in the pool. If I'm wet and cold I'm going to be looking for my towel where I left it. Is this just when you see someone put the towel there and leave or something?

 

[childsplay]

Is this just when you see someone put the towel there and leave or something?

Exactly...
Like last June when I was at HH and I wandered down by the pool around 7:30 AM to have a coffee/newspaper and enjoy the beautiful morning and personnally witnessed no less than half a dozen people come out from the surrounding villas and put towels, and in some cases even flipflops and t-shirts, on the lounges and around the tables.
By 8:00 the tables were all "taken", and at least a third of the lounges, and there wasn't a sole around except for me and the guy cleaning the spa.
I guess I just never understood that behavior, I mean if it's OK to do that 6 hours before you plan on using the table/lounge, why can't I extrapolate that behavior out earlier, I mean how about if I just place a towel on a chair the day I arrive and it's mine until I check-out.

 

[Princess Roo]

I hope you're not trying to compare inflation rates on maintenance fees versus inflation for resort rooms. It's apples to oranges in a way.
...
The big advantage to DVC is it's tremendous hedge against inflation.

Thanks, Caskbill...I'm actually an economic decision analysis professor, so I was adjusting for the apples-to-oranges factor you mention here (I think that's the technical term ), but didn't know what value to include for the inflation rate of the "cash" resort rooms. At this point we've decided to buy, because even at equal inflation it is better for our vacation style (and even more so if I tried to capture some of the not-so-easily-quantifiable perks like a guaranteed vacation at WDW for years to come!!). I'm just kind of curious...Plus I think it would make an interesting student project They get sick of hearing me go on and on about car loans, commercial investments, etc.

 

[Caskbill]

Thanks, Caskbill...I'm actually an economic decision analysis professor, so I was adjusting for the apples-to-oranges factor you mention here (I think that's the technical term ), but didn't know what value to include for the inflation rate of the "cash" resort rooms. At this point we've decided to buy, because even at equal inflation it is better for our vacation style (and even more so if I tried to capture some of the not-so-easily-quantifiable perks like a guaranteed vacation at WDW for years to come!!). I'm just kind of curious...Plus I think it would make an interesting student project They get sick of hearing me go on and on about car loans, commercial investments, etc.

I guess as a Professor you were well aware of the difference. The only reason I mentioned it is because so many people only compare inflation rates and not the base amount involved.

Several years ago there was a huge thread on this very topic, generated mostly from a popular non-DISboard site which said something that DVC was a bad purchase because the previous year DVC maintenance fees went up something like 4% while the WDW hotel rates that year only went up about 3%.

Besides the huge difference in the base figures being used, other factors were involved at that time, including the downturn in hotel reservations that were still a fallout of 9/11, and the increase in DVC dues some of which also was a result of 9/11.

Anyway, since you decided to purchase, let me be the first to say....

Welcome Home!

 

[SamRoc]

Some guests go to the pools early in the morning and put towels on lounges, so they'll have one available when they return from the theme parks at 4 PM or so.

That is the craziest thing i ever heard! When i am going to the parks in the morning, the last thing i am thinking about is the pool 8 hours later!

 

[MinnieGirl33]

I've seen numbers - which of course I can't find - showing more like a 3-4%.

Yeah, what was I thinking???

 

[Starr W.]

That is the craziest thing i ever heard! When i am going to the parks in the morning, the last thing i am thinking about is the pool 8 hours later!

It wouldn't surprise me, when you read some of the "planning" threads at the DIS boards. Some of these people have there days planned out to the minute.

So 7:00am wake everyone up and get dressed.
7:15 go to pool and mark "our area" with towels
7:30 go to bus stop and wait for MK bus

 

[freshmanjs]

I hope you're not trying to compare inflation rates on maintenance fees versus inflation for resort rooms. It's apples to oranges in a way.

For example, if someone makes $50,000 year and got a 3% raise, they got $1,500 more per year.

If someone makes $20,000 year and got a 3% raise, they got $600 more per year.

Same percentages, but way less in dollars.

If a WDW resort room costs $150/night, and goes up 5% one year, then the increase is $7.50/night (Actually $8.36 if you include room taxes)

If a DVC studio goes for 11 points/night, and dues are $4.50/point, that means the dues cost $49.50/night for the room. A 5% increase in dues means the DVC studio went up to $52/night, an increase of $2.48/night (there are no additional taxes.

Look forward 20 years and say 5%/year, and today a room costs $150/night ($167 including taxes), then in 20 years it'll cost $379/night ($422 including taxes), an increase of $255/night.

If DVC dues go up 5% a year, then in 20 years the maintenance fees on those 11 points will be $12/point, or $132/night for the room. That's a total increase of $82.50/night. Or only 1/3rd the increase in actual dollars for the hotel room.

This of course does not factor in the initial buy-in, and many have done the full analysis to find the break even point.

The big advantage to DVC is it's tremendous hedge against inflation.

Are there caps on how much they can raise dues? IT is only a hedge against inflation if the increase in dues is sufficiently slow. If one day, they made a large adjustment to dues, or they started increasing them at 10-15% per year, the gap could start to close quickly. I haven't seen the contracts though, so maybe there is language to prevent that.

 

[SnowWhite2]

We were told last week at the DVC presentation that FL has a law that fees cannot increase more than 15% per year.

They also mentioned that a third of the dues goes into reserve every year so when the hurricanes came through in 2004, the dues only went up about 4 - 5 % instead of double digits to pay for the damage.