Once again Bush does his best to set us way back...

[Tyler's Dad]

Personally, and I speak for myself (and my DH) only....I have 3 beautiful explanations for being against this bill. I do not post pictures of my children on the internet for all to see, but, suffice it to say, they are my reasons. I do know that this is an "emotional" reason....but I believe still valid. I have been thru the years of infertility treatment, and the thousands of dollars, and the daily injections, etc., and I believe every frozen embryo is a potential life. I see the proof of that every day.

This is not to discredit anyone going thru a major health crisis that one day MAYBE will be cured with stem cells. In fact, we have many Type 1 and Type 2 diabetics in our families; many family members on my side have had Alzheimers (enough that they participated in studies for genetic links); there are members with heart conditions; many with cancer....including the very strong gene BRCA1 for early onset breast cancer (they can use stem cells to test new drugs for cancer treatments). I just think that there is much more promise with the more stable "adult" stem cells (including cord blood, amniotic fluid, and stem cells from adults).

I am happy for you and your family that things worked out for you. I have a son that makes my life worth living. But AGAIN, this bill does not do anything to effect embryos not already being earmarked for research. It just allows them to go to federally funded studies. Nobody is asking for the federal researchers to be able to pilfer fertility clinics. As much as you say these are all potential life, many of the people who donate their embryos have had successful births and would like to see their extra embryos go to a cause, rahter than being pointlessly destroyed.

As for the adult stem cells, research has shown there is much more potential in embryonic cells in the fields of spinal growth and tissue growth.

 

[disneyfan67]

Well, I don't think I agree with the assassination part, but it is not unusual for countries to overthrow their leaders. Just because he was elected doesn't mean he has to stay in the job if he is breaking the law. The fact that he is currently the sitting occupant doesn't make him god.

Bottom line is that he has crossed a line and is dangerously close to breaking a Federal law, if he hasn't already. Even if he was just joking around or being sarcastic, it's bad form to be talking about killing a POTUS. You can do and say a lot of things in America, openly talking about assassination of a sitting or retired POTUS, is not one of them. There comes a time when politics has to take a back seat to being an American. I have really, really grown to dislike Bush and a lot of the actions he has taken, but as an American I will not tolerate or condone talk about killing him, even joking about it. This is the DIS boards after all and it's mission is to help, plan, and meet others who want to go on a Disney related vacation. Assassination comments are for the "Nutters" and the websites they frequent, not here. Those kind of comments could cause a lot of grief for the owner and moderators of this site. Sites have been shutdown for crap like that. I like the DIS and most of the people who use it and I think my life has enriched by participating on it.

That's the reason why I posted my initial response in the first place.

 

[LadyShiva]

THREATS AGAINST PRESIDENT - 18 USC 871, makes it a Federal crime or offense for anyone to willfully make a true threat to injure or kill the President of the United States.

A person can be found guilty of that offense only if all of the following facts are proved beyond a reasonable doubt:

First: That the person uttered words alleged to be the threat against the President;

Second: That the person understood and meant the words he used as a true threat; and

Third: That the person uttered the words knowingly and willfully.

A "threat" is a statement expressing an intention to kill or injure the President; and a "true threat" means a serious threat as distinguished from words used as mere political argument, idle or careless talk, or something said in a joking manner.

The essence of the offense is the knowing and willful making of a true threat. So, if it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the person knowingly made a true threat against the President, willfully intending that it be understood by others as a serious threat, then the offense is complete; it is not necessary to prove that the person actually intended to carry out the threat.


Brandie

 

[LadyShiva]

And if you didn't understand my intention from the previous post, here it is:

LET.IT.GO.

I may not agree with the words you say, but I'll defend your right to say them.

Brandie

 

[boomhauer]

I really need to stop watching Wheel of Fortune and tune into the nightly news occassioanlly. Maybe then I'd know what everyone on here is talking about.

As for the assassination comments being a federal law, could someone pass that message along to my wife and tell her it applies to anyone? Everytime I book another trip to Disney, she threatens to kill me.

 

[LadyShiva]

As for the assassination comments being a federal law, could someone pass that message along to my wife and tell her it applies to anyone? Everytime I book another trip to Disney, she threatens to kill me.

I don't think that word means what you think it means....

Brandie

 

[cardaway]

I've seen people here on the DIS comparing GWB to Hitler. Does that fall under the "no credibility" rule?

And those people got the same Godwin's rule reaction, so what's your point?

 

[wvrevy]

I don't think that word means what you think it means....

Brandie

That's what he gets for starting a land war in asia.

 

[HOGFAN]

ss,dd from the Bush hate-mongers

 

[Bobbles]

When we step back and take a look at the whole "embryonic stem cell" issue, I think it is safe to say that the veto has only a tiny effect on stem cell research.
There is a whole world out there that is involved in this research.
The US isn't the only country involved in it.

We are merely "outsourcing" it.

 

[Pigeon]

Personally, and I speak for myself (and my DH) only....I have 3 beautiful explanations for being against this bill. I do not post pictures of my children on the internet for all to see, but, suffice it to say, they are my reasons. I do know that this is an "emotional" reason....but I believe still valid. I have been thru the years of infertility treatment, and the thousands of dollars, and the daily injections, etc., and I believe every frozen embryo is a potential life. I see the proof of that every day.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow your logic at all.

Nobody is going to force you to donate your embryos for research. But there are couples who have absolutely no intention of ever transferring those embryos because their families are complete, and who do not wish to allow those embryos to be implanted in other people. Those extra embryos are going to die, one way or another the way things stand now. Why shouldn't people be able to make the decision to donate their own genetic material, if that's what they want to do?

 

[Art Vandalay]

That's what he gets for starting a land war in asia.

I still say Saddam was Sicilian

 

[KariC]

I'm sorry, but I don't follow your logic at all.

Nobody is going to force you to donate your embryos for research. But there are couples who have absolutely no intention of ever transferring those embryos because their families are complete, and who do not wish to allow those embryos to be implanted in other people. Those extra embryos are going to die, one way or another the way things stand now. Why shouldn't people be able to make the decision to donate their own genetic material, if that's what they want to do?

If you read my previous posts....you would have seen where I said, at this time, many couples MAY CHOOSE to donate their unused embryos, and that fertility clinics have the means to do this for their patients after some legal paperwork is done (I have a couple friends that will do this, but MANY more that will not choose this method for their frozen embryos). It is already possible and is being done, and parents can choose to do so. I personally don't think we need to federally fund it, and many research facilities are doing the reseach w/out funding from the gov't. I do believe that it should always be the couples' choices, and that if they so choose to have them simply "die" versus donating them to research....they should be allowed to do that also (some would disagree with that). I was asked a direct question, and responded for myself (and DH only) as to our beliefs. This question came about because of the Rand Corp. study I posted that was done to see out of the 430 fertility clinics (not just the 9 referred to in a different study released yesterday) how many potential discards are to be had for research. It is significantly less than estimated. You can check it out, if you haven't already.

The rest of the post (not quoted) also stated that I believe that other sources of adult stem cells have shown much more promise. I believe that is where are federal money should go at this time.

 

[Charade]

And those people got the same Godwin's rule reaction, so what's your point?

Eh, no, they didn't.

 

[jimmiej]

Eh, no, they didn't.

 

[cardaway]

Eh, no, they didn't.

Its' really pitiful that jimmiej can;t answer for himself anymore, but yeah, they did. I've seen the Godwin's law thing more times than I can count, and most of those were on GWB threads.

 

[Charade]

Its' really pitiful that jimmiej can;t answer for himself anymore, but yeah, they did. I've seen the Godwin's law thing more times than I can count, and most of those were on GWB threads.

Well, I read most of those threads and the only person I remember mentioning Godwin's law was Kyle. Who starts most of the GWB threads and what are they about? It's usually not his supporters and the topic isn't usually flattering. Why would a GWB support even compare Bush to Hitler? That's done by the people who *think* he's "Hitler-like".

It's a shame the old search engine isn't around. I think you'd be surprised who actually was making the Bush/Hitler comparisons.

 

[yeartolate]

Wait, are the frozen embryos Hitler Youth or spawn of Der Furher?

I refuse to read back to see how this disinigrated into another GWB?Hitler thing.

 

[cardaway]

It's a shame the old search engine isn't around. I think you'd be surprised who actually was making the Bush/Hitler comparisons.

Where did I say anything about who made the Hitler comparisons?

What I was repsonding to is that people didn't bring up the Godwin's thing in those other cases. Poeple did, almost without exception.

It might as well be another law. If somebody brings up Nazi's there will be somebody bringing up the Godwin thing.

 

[Snow_White]

Bush continues to disappoint me, but to compare him to Hitler is ridiculous.