OKW Contract Extension Quitclaim Deed

[PBB]

We did not execute any documents for the OKW extension back when it was offered at $ 15 per point. DVC sent another document for us to sign saying we did not want to extend our contract at OKW for 15 years.

Again, today we received a letter from DVC stating that we "must" execute this document if we don't intend to extend our DVC agreement. I have to admit I come from a mindset of ......If someone wants me to execute a quitclaim deed I must have something that has some type of value. I spoke to a Disney representative today and she told me it was Florida Law that I had to sign the document. When I asked which law was that ? She could not tell me. I have to admit, I don't like the way Disney is treating this.

Can anyone shed any light on this matter ? I hope I am not arrested at the Florida Turnpike for breaking Fla. Law....LOL

I am not trying to be a jerk here but all these issues with the agreement seems self imposed by DVC or their attorneys and I have to admit I don't feel like jumping because their attorney made a mistake 27 years ago.

Thanks,

 

[RobDoc]

Well, I asked those same questions at the Annual Meeting in 2007 when they had a special meeting for OKW owners. My question was because they included language in the amendment indicating that DVC could place a lien on any contracts where the documents are not returned. They responded that every effort would be made to contact owners before taking any such measure.

Basically, they amended the documents (using the same voting system where Disney reps are the voting representatives for the owners they represent) to extend the original contracts. (There is a provision in the POS which loosely allows then to make such changes.)

It's possible that they could restrict the use of your membership via a lien if the documents are not returned, but it would be interesting to see what response DVC might have to a member's resistance to such drastic action. Basically, the extension is of no use to anyone until February 1, 2042 - including DVC.

It would be interesting to see which "FL Law" would be violated for refusing to sign an amended document. Be aware that OKW owners did receive a credit on our 2008 dues (I think it was $25) to cover any inconvenience from the need to have documents notarized and returned.

Please keep us informed of any future development!

 

[PBB]

I don't know how they could deny use of current points. Let's see, I am current on my annual dues and there is no debt on my points so that is free and clear. If they tried to block access it would not be a good thing. I have worked with Disney in the past and they are a bunch of bullies. They like to threaten or imply a threat. I felt that is what they did today by stating it was Florida Law without anyone quoting which law.

I am at a point that I have no interest in jumping through a hoop for DVC. I had a problem a few years ago with a misapplied payment and a rude person from accounting. I called Jim Lewis' office and he did nothing. He did not even have the decency to have a representative call back. When the mortgage was paid off they did not send a document satisfying the debt on the property. The way I see it if they need documents signed perhaps they should have offered something back to the members they are asking to sign a legal document. Pass discounts or such would have been nice.

This whole event has been weird to me. I could understand wanting us to extend our contract when you were getting within 5 years of 2042 but not now. I don't how spending $ 2500 to $ 3,750 for something that might benefit me when I am 75 years old. The only thing it sounds like to me is this money is going right to the bottom line for DVC.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

This whole event has been weird to me. I could understand wanting us to extend our contract when you were getting within 5 years of 2042 but not now. I don't how spending $ 2500 to $ 3,750 for something that might benefit me when I am 75 years old. The only thing it sounds like to me is this money is going right to the bottom line for DVC.

At The Timeshare Store, Inc.® that is what I heard from most owners at Old Key West. They felt that wanted to spend that money on buying additional points they could use now rather than spend money on something that most likely is going to benefit someone else in 2042.

Jason

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

We did not execute any documents for the OKW extension back when it was offered at $ 15 per point. DVC sent another document for us to sign saying we did not want to extend our contract at OKW for 15 years.

Again, today we received a letter from DVC stating that we "must" execute this document if we don't intend to extend our DVC agreement. I have to admit I come from a mindset of ......If someone wants me to execute a quitclaim deed I must have something that has some type of value. I spoke to a Disney representative today and she told me it was Florida Law that I had to sign the document. When I asked which law was that ? She could not tell me. I have to admit, I don't like the way Disney is treating this.

Can anyone shed any light on this matter ? I hope I am not arrested at the Florida Turnpike for breaking Fla. Law....LOL

I am not trying to be a jerk here but all these issues with the agreement seems self imposed by DVC or their attorneys and I have to admit I don't feel like jumping because their attorney made a mistake 27 years ago.

Thanks,

In my opinion the only time you will be forced to return the Quit Claim Deed is if you ever decide to sell it as an Old Key West membership expiring 2042. We still run into some sellers who haven't returned the Quit Claim Deed and we explain to them they must return it or they will be charged for he extension at the time of closing and we will have to sell it as a 2057 deed.

Jason

 

[chalee94]

The way I see it if they need documents signed perhaps they should have offered something back to the members they are asking to sign a legal document.

as stated, they gave you a $25 credit to cover the hassle of taking a few minutes to sign back the extra 15 years if you don't want to pay for them. since you don't find that adequate compensation, you should at least refund DVC the $25 you accepted without fulfilling your end of the deal.

it takes a couple of minutes to sign and return. if finding a notary is too much trouble, you can stop by SSR during business hours on your next trip to wdw with the paperwork and they will take care of it quickly. that's what i did and it took all of 5-10 minutes.

This whole event has been weird to me. I could understand wanting us to extend our contract when you were getting within 5 years of 2042 but not now. I don't how spending $ 2500 to $ 3,750 for something that might benefit me when I am 75 years old. The only thing it sounds like to me is this money is going right to the bottom line for DVC.

it was handled poorly. extending was not a good deal. but i'm not clear how you are improving the situation by extending the "weirdness."

 

[PBB]

as stated, they gave you a $25 credit to cover the hassle of taking a few minutes to sign back the extra 15 years if you don't want to pay for them. since you don't find that adequate compensation, you should at least refund DVC the $25 you accepted without fulfilling your end of the deal.

it takes a couple of minutes to sign and return. if finding a notary is too much trouble, you can stop by SSR during business hours on your next trip to wdw with the paperwork and they will take care of it quickly. that's what i did and it took all of 5-10 minutes



it was handled poorly. extending was not a good deal. but i'm not clear how you are improving the situation by extending the "weirdness."

$

Good point.......Regarding the fee I will refund the $ 25.00.

Regarding extending the weirdness.......II don't agreee........

Personally I believe DVC has done something wrong whether it was intentional or not....Not sure.....However, I do believe that DVC has tried to use several tactics that are not appreciated by myself nor do I find very professional. Including trying to get people to pay thousands of dollars to make up for their mistake or error, to imply their is a law stating I had to sign a quitclaim deed but not being able to produce said law and a threat of not being able to use the product for which I have already paid Disney in advance. I personally don't like to be threatened in these manners. Maybe my extending the weirdness will gain something for my family or better other OKW members who have been taken advantage of.

 

[5forDiz]

$

............Including trying to get people to pay thousands of dollars to make up for their mistake or error........

We own at OKW.....I am not aware of what you mean when you say " their mistake or error ". Can you or someone else here explain ?

thanks

 

[tjkraz]

Personally I believe DVC has done something wrong whether it was intentional or not....Not sure.....However, I do believe that DVC has tried to use several tactics that are not appreciated by myself nor do I find very professional. Including trying to get people to pay thousands of dollars to make up for their mistake or error, to imply their is a law stating I had to sign a quitclaim deed but not being able to produce said law and a threat of not being able to use the product for which I have already paid Disney in advance. I personally don't like to be threatened in these manners. Maybe my extending the weirdness will gain something for my family or better other OKW members who have been taken advantage of.

Devil's advocate: just because the front-line rep who was charged with calling you couldn't cite the applicable Florida statute doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.

Assuming that the approach DVC took is not patently illegal, it seems that the condo association would have the power to implement a rule restricting point usage until the obligations are met. I'm not sure what approach you expect them to take at this stage since they have been unsuccessful in obtaining cooperation without issuing any threats. They already tried the gentle approach of "here's $25...please sign and return these documents."

I believe they also sent a gift to all OKW owners (lighthouse?) whether they extended or opted-out.

My understanding is that DVC chose this approach because it allowed for the largest market for the extensions. If they had sold the extra 15 years as a separate contract, DVC would have been handcuffed by local sales laws which prohibit them from selling to residents of many states, provinces and countries. For instance, DVC cannot market to most Canadian residents or those living in the state of Nebraska. OKW owners in those areas would have been unable to participate in the extension.

Structuring it as an extension to the current agreement/ground lease allowed all owners to potentially participate, while placing the opt-out burden on those who were not willing to extend.

While we could certainly criticize the method and pricing (ugh!), it sure seems like you are going out of your way to test their meddle. That's your prerogative, but I don't see their "tactics" getting any more warm and fuzzy in the light of a blatant refusal to cooperate.

 

[dvcbrad]

We did not execute any documents for the OKW extension back when it was offered at $ 15 per point. DVC sent another document for us to sign saying we did not want to extend our contract at OKW for 15 years.

Again, today we received a letter from DVC stating that we "must" execute this document if we don't intend to extend our DVC agreement. I have to admit I come from a mindset of ......If someone wants me to execute a quitclaim deed I must have something that has some type of value. I spoke to a Disney representative today and she told me it was Florida Law that I had to sign the document. When I asked which law was that ? She could not tell me. I have to admit, I don't like the way Disney is treating this.

Can anyone shed any light on this matter ? I hope I am not arrested at the Florida Turnpike for breaking Fla. Law....LOL

I am not trying to be a jerk here but all these issues with the agreement seems self imposed by DVC or their attorneys and I have to admit I don't feel like jumping because their attorney made a mistake 27 years ago.

Thanks,

I never had the impression that there WAS a mistake made 27 years ago. All that DVC did was give us the opportunity to extend our use agreement another 15 years. We, as 'owners', didn't have to accept it, agree with it, or even like it. Personally, I didn't want to spend money now for something that I was not going to receive any benefit from for another 28 years, or whatever the remaining life on the DVC agreement was at the time they gave us the opportunity to extend. Some people did ... and that's fine, too. Not sure, though, why someone would want to risk not being able to use their ownership, i.e. realize the benefit of their current investment, just because of needing to sign off on a document that basically says you don't want to extend your current use agreement.

 

[sdlong329]

We, as 'owners', didn't have to accept it, agree with it, or even like it.

I am not sure what the fuss is about. The decision to make the 15 year extension was made to ALL. If you want the extension, DVC gas various $ options, and will require you to sign documentation for the extension. If you decline the extension, let them know, in writing. If there is verbiage in the contract you are concerned about - address it to DVC in writing.

As a REALTOR in PA ... one who deals with condominiums a fair amount of time ... it would seem as though DVC likely needs written confirmation that you are indeed purchasing, or have declined the ability to purchase. Condominium ownership is much more entailed and detailed versus non-condominium.

 

[Dean]

As I read the POS and FL law, DVC does not have the right to levy a special assessment for the purpose stated as was their decision as to how to handle this extension. Also, as I read the POS, by nature of extending the club membership and expiration, they automatically extend any member who does not abdicate that right with a quite claim deed. I think it will be interesting to see what happens if someone decides to call their bluff in this area. I do realize their dilemma in this situation and realize they really were in a now win situation in attempting to extend OKW. My prediction is if one decides to carry it to the end they get a free extension possibly with the exception of legal fees. Still, Disney is the proverbial #600 gorilla with lawyers so I do realize that even if technically correct, it's an uphill battle. As I've said, I wish I still owned OKW, we'd find out for sure.

 

[tjkraz]

As I read the POS and FL law, DVC does not have the right to levy a special assessment for the purpose stated as was their decision as to how to handle this extension. Also, as I read the POS, by nature of extending the club membership and expiration, they automatically extend any member who does not abdicate that right with a quite claim deed. I think it will be interesting to see what happens if someone decides to call their bluff in this area. I do realize their dilemma in this situation and realize they really were in a now win situation in attempting to extend OKW. My prediction is if one decides to carry it to the end they get a free extension possibly with the exception of legal fees. Still, Disney is the proverbial #600 gorilla with lawyers so I do realize that even if technically correct, it's an uphill battle. As I've said, I wish I still owned OKW, we'd find out for sure.

For the most part I agree, Dean.

Still, I'm certain the process would have been vetted by Disney legal. I'm hard-pressed to believe that legal would have given the opinion that there is no legal basis for extending in the manner chosen...yet DVD went ahead with it anyway.

Assuming legal did sign off on the extension methodology, whether they are right or wrong is certainly a matter for courts to decide. But given the liability involved, Disney would make any legal challenge as expensive and time-consuming as possible.

 

[PBB]

I here what you are saying......I believe that 99.9% of the people who bought into OKW believed that their membership would be over in 2042. I know I did. I have to leave .01 % for people that don't read contracts.

I just believe that a quitclaim deed is a very powerful document. This is stating to the courts that we waive our rights after 2042. What this tells me without reading all the documents is that DVC or their attorneys believes we might have ownership interests. If not, they would not ask us to sign a document. It is just simple logic.

DVC would not spend all this money in legal expenses, mailing, staff, lighthouses,etc if they did not believe their was an issue. Disney would not be spending the money.

Disney sticks a document in front of me and tells me to sign it. I think to myself why should I ? What is my benefit ? When they make a threat to something I have already paid for.......This makes the hair on the back of my neck crawl and makes me dig in.

For arguments sake.....Let's take this to the next step.......DVC tells me at check in you have to sign this document before we allow you into the suite that you have already paid us. Can you imagine what this would tell all DVC Members ?

I don't think it will take long to find an attorney to take the case or a class action lawsuit to protect us all. At this point, I have not violated anything in the agreement. I am just not willing to sign a document that DVC wants. That is my choice.........DVC can not at will punish, retaliate or violate the agreement that was signed and filed in Orange County, FL because they want a document. This is exactly why that document is signed and agreed upon to hold all parties to the same standards set forth in contract.

I want to be able to get a Florida Resident Pass because I pay property taxes in the State of Florida. I create a document that says I can get a Florida Resident Pass and that I want Disney to waive what is stated in the agreement or I won't pay my dues or mortgage payment. I send them $ 25 for expenses and a lighthouse for their trouble.

How long do you think it would take for DVC to refer me back the agreement and start foreclosure procedures? All I am theorizing here is Disney would not respond in the manner we are expected to respond. They have all the power at the annual meetings. They could paint the condos Fusia and Purple and every member could disagree and DVC would say too bad that is what we want. The agreement says it. We have to live with it.

It is my personality to be a devils advocate and ask these type of questions. I don't jump because a huge corporation suggest I do is all.

Please don't get me wrong.....I have no expectations beyond 2042.

I never had the impression that there WAS a mistake made 27 years ago. All that DVC did was give us the opportunity to extend our use agreement another 15 years. We, as 'owners', didn't have to accept it, agree with it, or even like it. Personally, I didn't want to spend money now for something that I was not going to receive any benefit from for another 28 years, or whatever the remaining life on the DVC agreement was at the time they gave us the opportunity to extend. Some people did ... and that's fine, too. Not sure, though, why someone would want to risk not being able to use their ownership, i.e. realize the benefit of their current investment, just because of needing to sign off on a document that basically says you don't want to extend your current use agreement.

 

[Chuck S]

What this tells me without reading all the documents is that DVC or their attorneys believes we might have ownership interests. If not, they would not ask us to sign a document. It is just simple logic.

Yes, you may have a legal interest after 2042 that you need to sign back over to Disney using the deed. Because of the way the land lease, in which we have an interest, was extended by DVC Mgt, thus extending the useful life of the OKW bldgs, in which we own an interest.

But with that interest, there would also be obligations...an obligation to pay for the extension and continue paying dues.

 

[tjkraz]

I just believe that a quitclaim deed is a very powerful document. This is stating to the courts that we waive our rights after 2042. What this tells me without reading all the documents is that DVC or their attorneys believes we might have ownership interests. If not, they would not ask us to sign a document. It is just simple logic.

When you originally purchased points at OKW, you HAD no rights beyond 2042. DVC isn't trying to take anything away that they had previously granted to you.

About 2 years ago, the condo board voted to EXTEND the original ground lease into 2057. But the caveat was that owners either needed to pay the special assessment ($15 or $25 per point) mandated by the ground lease extension OR they needed to sign over the ownership to DVD as of the original expiration date of 1/31/42.

This isn't a situation where DVC is trying limit rights that were granted at the time of purchase. Instead they are giving you the opportunity to either accept or decline the offer of 15 additional years of ownership.

For arguments sake.....Let's take this to the next step.......DVC tells me at check in you have to sign this document before we allow you into the suite that you have already paid us. Can you imagine what this would tell all DVC Members ?

I'd say it's more likely that they will prohibit you from booking future trips using your points until the issue is resolved.

I don't think it will take long to find an attorney to take the case or a class action lawsuit to protect us all.

You may be right about finding attorney, but it will cost you to pursue the matter. There's no clear-cut evidence that DVC has acted inappropriately. Even if they have, the remedy may not come close to compensating you for the time and energy involved in fighting this battle.

At this point, I have not violated anything in the agreement. I am just not willing to sign a document that DVC wants. That is my choice.........DVC can not at will punish, retaliate or violate the agreement that was signed and filed in Orange County, FL because they want a document. This is exactly why that document is signed and agreed upon to hold all parties to the same standards set forth in contract.

DVC has always retained the right to amend many of the documents which govern the program.

Again, the key to all of this (in my opinion) is that DVC is not trying to remove any of the rights which were guaranteed to you through January 31, 2042. All they are asking you to do is either accept or decline the offer to extend ownership through 1/31/2057.

Simply sign the paper--agreeing to forfeit something that was never yours to begin with--and the issue is resolved. But the more you dig your heels in, the more you are forcing Disney's hand.

It is my personality to be a devils advocate and ask these type of questions. I don't jump because a huge corporation suggest I do is all.

Please don't get me wrong.....I have no expectations beyond 2042.

So what is your endgame, here? DVC has a procedure in place to guarantee that you will not have any obligations beyond 2042 and they've given you some compensation for the inconvenience.

I don't mean to belittle your concerns but honestly, whatever time and energy you've spent on this so far is time wasted, IMO. Sign the form and you will have the exact same rights and privileges as you did back when you originally purchased the OKW points--no more and no less.

 

[Dean]

For the most part I agree, Dean.

Still, I'm certain the process would have been vetted by Disney legal. I'm hard-pressed to believe that legal would have given the opinion that there is no legal basis for extending in the manner chosen...yet DVD went ahead with it anyway.

Assuming legal did sign off on the extension methodology, whether they are right or wrong is certainly a matter for courts to decide. But given the liability involved, Disney would make any legal challenge as expensive and time-consuming as possible.

I think they were between a rock and hard place given the interpretation I posted. My suspicion is they were warned by legal that these were issues but didn't have good alternatives and decided to chance it. I'd say they were lucky as I think an early legal challenge would have had a much larger impact than now or later. I'm not unsympathetic to the situation they were in at all but the SA route really rubs me the wrong way. One of the issues I know was getting enough participation to make it viable.

When you originally purchased points at OKW, you HAD no rights beyond 2042. DVC isn't trying to take anything away that they had previously granted to you.

Yes and no. The POS states that the membership runs to when the resort ceases to be a member which at the time was 2042, that wording is part of the reason for my interpretation above.

 

[RobDoc]

...Yes and no. The POS states that the membership runs to when the resort ceases to be a member which at the time was 2042, that wording is part of the reason for my interpretation above.

Can anyone provide the exact language from the POS stating that? I won't have access to my POS for 2 weeks, but my recollection is that it mentions nothing like "when the resort ceases to be a member" and does actually specify January 31, 2042 for OKW and a specific date for each of the DVC resorts.

In this situation, the board has voted to extend the land lease with Disney. I have no problem with someone refusing to sign the documents, but I also feel they will eventually get a response from DVC in the form of a lien on their membership and/or denial of service. As long as they are prepared for that event, more power to them.

 

[sdedalus]

We signed and returned ours this week. We decided not to pay to extend for our sons and whatever families they might have.

That said. This is a leasehold timeshare. We own nothing. Our lease expires in 2042. Like any lease, the owner can offer to give us another lease. We would have to pay for that extension. Since we have been deeded the timeshare they need a deed to show that we have not agreed to extend. If we had purchased a full ownership then we would be in a different place.

They changed their minds about the viability of the program. In 1992, could they have expected the club to be this successful? There are 32 years left. If i survive to 2042 I'll be 90. I plan to enjoy those years at the place that makes me happy.

 

[tecodis]

Seems like this is just making a mountain out of a molehill.
Why have such a distaste for a fairly simple case of signing, notarizing and mailing a document that simply gives you the legal acknowledgment for the exact choice you wanted anyway? Plus, why hold back if they are likely to just add it as part of a stipulation for selling it now or later?


And if you are truly that upset about your experiences with DVC, sell it and be done with it altogether.

Relax - the world of DVC isn't out to get you so step down from your perch and just take care of business. You bought DVC and by doing so bought into a certain amount of rules to abide by, which can indeed change over time as we have seen.

Sometimes we all have to do things we don't want to - it's all just part of life!