OKW Contract Extension Quitclaim Deed

[DVC92]

Getting back to the original topic of this thread, I don't believe DVD will take any action against a member who hasn't returned the deed until their hand is forced in 2042, at which time that membership will automatically continue without having paid the special assessment.

Once again, I believe the more pressing issue relates to a promised subsidy relating to reserves for non-extenders at the appropriate time in the future which DVD has conceded to The Timeshare Bureau but not made public.

 

[RobDoc]

Here are some sections of the original POS and contract as well as Florida Timeshare law regarding terms of the contract:

1) Section 17.2 of Article XVII in my POS reads as follows:

Termination or Expiration of Ground Lease

Upon termination or expiration of the terms of the Ground Lease, this Condominium shall automatically terminate and all Owners' interests therein and all mortgagee liens thereon shall terminate.


2) In addition to section 17.2 of the Declaration of Condominium, Article XI, section 3 of the Master Declaration of Covenants states:

Termination

These Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions shall run with and bind the land for a term commencing from the date this instrument is recorded and continuing until January 31, 2042, after which time they shall automatically terminate.

3) Exhibit 10 of the POS states

"Since the lease of the land upon which the Condominium is formed expires on 1/31/42, your Ownership Interest will also terminate on that date (unless the Ground lease is terminated earlier in accordance with its terms or your own Ownership Interest is sooner terminated for some reason such as a sale or foreclosure)."

4) The following is from the Florida law concerning timeshares:

721.06 Contracts for purchase of timeshare interests.--
(1) Each seller shall utilize and furnish each purchaser a fully completed and executed copy of a contract pertaining to the sale, which contract shall include the following information:
(f) A brief description of the nature and duration of the timeshare interest being sold, including whether any interest in real property or personal property is being conveyed and the specific number of years constituting the term of the timeshare plan.

5) My actual contract/Purchase Agreement:

a) Item #2 (Ownership Interest Purchased) states that my ownership interest is subject to the Ground Lease (the original contract failed to include the language "and any amendments thereto" which was placed in later contracts);

b) The last paragraph in item #4 (The Disney Vacation Club) states, "The term of the DVC ownership plan is concurrent with the term of the Ground Lease underlying the Condominium and will continue until January 31, 2042 which is the expiration date of the Ground Lease or unless the Ground Lease is sooner terminated in accordance with its own terms."; and

c) Section 15 of the Contract clearly sets forth that it cannot be modified or amended except by a writing signed by both PURCHASER and DVD, and that all provisions shall survive the closing.

Thanks. I will compare that to my POS from 5/93 to see what, if anything, had changed by that date.

 

[Dean]

Here are some sections of the original POS and contract as well as Florida Timeshare law regarding terms of the contract:

1) Section 17.2 of Article XVII in my POS reads as follows:

Termination or Expiration of Ground Lease

Upon termination or expiration of the terms of the Ground Lease, this Condominium shall automatically terminate and all Owners' interests therein and all mortgagee liens thereon shall terminate.


2) In addition to section 17.2 of the Declaration of Condominium, Article XI, section 3 of the Master Declaration of Covenants states:

Termination

These Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions shall run with and bind the land for a term commencing from the date this instrument is recorded and continuing until January 31, 2042, after which time they shall automatically terminate.

3) Exhibit 10 of the POS states

"Since the lease of the land upon which the Condominium is formed expires on 1/31/42, your Ownership Interest will also terminate on that date (unless the Ground lease is terminated earlier in accordance with its terms or your own Ownership Interest is sooner terminated for some reason such as a sale or foreclosure)."

4) The following is from the Florida law concerning timeshares:

721.06 Contracts for purchase of timeshare interests.--
(1) Each seller shall utilize and furnish each purchaser a fully completed and executed copy of a contract pertaining to the sale, which contract shall include the following information:
(f) A brief description of the nature and duration of the timeshare interest being sold, including whether any interest in real property or personal property is being conveyed and the specific number of years constituting the term of the timeshare plan.

5) My actual contract/Purchase Agreement:

a) Item #2 (Ownership Interest Purchased) states that my ownership interest is subject to the Ground Lease (the original contract failed to include the language "and any amendments thereto" which was placed in later contracts);

b) The last paragraph in item #4 (The Disney Vacation Club) states, "The term of the DVC ownership plan is concurrent with the term of the Ground Lease underlying the Condominium and will continue until January 31, 2042 which is the expiration date of the Ground Lease or unless the Ground Lease is sooner terminated in accordance with its own terms."; and

c) Section 15 of the Contract clearly sets forth that it cannot be modified or amended except by a writing signed by both PURCHASER and DVD, and that all provisions shall survive the closing.

Thanks for putting that together. My contentions are essentially 2. One that the ground lease determines the length of membership and two that DVD does not have the right to levy a special assessment for this purpose. I think DVC's actions suggest they agree with the first else there would be no reason for a quit claim deed from those not extending. They would need to do nothing or else only legal paperwork for those extending. Obviously their actions suggest they disagree with my second point. I'm not sure that the wording in contract is necessarily binding on the membership of a given resort as a whole since not everyone entered into such a contract unless that same wording is found in the POS itself.

To further define that point I go under the premise that the POS must have wording that allows the assessment. Given that the POS only states specific reasons that a SA can be instituted, and I don't feel the current threat of a SA is within those guidelines, I therefore contend they do not have the authority for this SA. I would refer you to VI.1 of the By-laws and to 8.1 of the Declaration of Condominium that deals with assessments. I see nothing that allows for such other assessments there or elsewhere. Obviously without a legal challenge, we may never really know.

 

[PBB]

I think they were rather tricky, but I think the consideration was the print of Old Key West they sent out and the credit against the dues to pay for a notary.....if there is a legal fight...those items would be part of the DVC side of the case...nothing says you have to accept the consideration though....which real estate law says can be a mere peppercorn.

The notary is just a reimbursement for expenses. The fact is most of the people had to pay for a notary. Consideration should be something tangible not reimbursable.

 

[Chuck S]

The notary is just a reimbursement for expenses. The fact is most of the people had to pay for a notary. Consideration should be something tangible not reimbursable.

I beg to differ. Most people in the US get free notary services at their financial institution. I only paid a notary fee when I went to one during non-banking hours for convenience. Every major bank I've done business with over the years, both in Texas and California, provided free notary services.

I understand it is quite different in other countries; but here in the US, notorization is simple, inexepensive or free, and takes only minutes. And cost nowhere near the amount our dues were reduced to offset.

 

[dianeschlicht]

The notary is just a reimbursement for expenses. The fact is most of the people had to pay for a notary. Consideration should be something tangible not reimbursable.

I agree with Chuck about notary costs. I could get notary services free at many places...my bank, my credit union, a place of employment...Most companies have a secretary or some offical who has a notary license to simplify things for them.

 

[DVC92]

As I mentioned above, DVD has promised a subsidy for non-extenders with respect to the reserve component of the annual dues at the appropriate time in the future. Assuming such a subsidy actually happens and begins in 2020 for example, any member who hasn't returned the quitclaim deed legally has a termination date of 2057 in DVC's eyes and will not be entitled to the subsidy. Such a case will clearly create damages for filing a legal complaint if a member so desired.

 

[RobDoc]

As I mentioned above, DVD has promised a subsidy for non-extenders with respect to the reserve component of the annual dues at the appropriate time in the future. Assuming such a subsidy actually happens and begins in 2020 for example, any member who hasn't returned the quitclaim deed legally has a termination date of 2057 in DVC's eyes and will not be entitled to the subsidy. Such a case will clearly create damages for filing a legal complaint if a member so desired.

... just as non-extenders would be damaged if a subsidy for the capital reserve is not provided at some point?

 

[DVC92]

... just as non-extenders would be damaged if a subsidy for the capital reserve is not provided at some point?

Precisely!

 

[SophiasDad]

Is DVD still offering OKW home resort owners the extension? If so, what price?

 

[Chuck S]

Is DVD still offering OKW home resort owners the extension? If so, what price?

Any new points bought through DVC for OKW are automatically extended. I would bet that current owners can still extend, even if they've already declined and filed deeds. I don't know the current price, the last price was $20pp. I asked, when I declined, if I could change my mind and extend at a later date, and was told I could. I'm in the cusp age group that may, or may not, be living and in good enough health to enjoy the extension in 2042.

 

[dmoore22]

As I was reading this discussion I realized I have yet to return my paperwork. We decided not to since we will more than likely be visiting Walt Disney, unless of course they would allow us to sprinkle our ashes around the resort.

 

[RobDoc]

Is DVD still offering OKW home resort owners the extension? If so, what price?

The original vote was to offer the extension at $25 per point. They discounted that to $15 for those accepting the extension before March, 2008. As Chuck noted, the price then increased to $20 per point but could be higher at this time. I have not seen any recent reports about what level it might be at now.

 

[Dean]

As I mentioned above, DVD has promised a subsidy for non-extenders with respect to the reserve component of the annual dues at the appropriate time in the future. Assuming such a subsidy actually happens and begins in 2020 for example, any member who hasn't returned the quitclaim deed legally has a termination date of 2057 in DVC's eyes and will not be entitled to the subsidy. Such a case will clearly create damages for filing a legal complaint if a member so desired.

It would be difficult to ask DVC members who are expiring to pay upkeep, maint and refurbishment's they are not getting a benefit for. Of course there may be some discussion as to what is appropriate and what is not, we'll see. This promise was also to the state in response to a threat of litigation as I understand it, I don't see how they can not follow through if the resort is still up and running at the time of transition.

It appears DVD/DVCMC has not filed any lien's or even actually threatened anyone to do so from what I can tell. Anyone have info to the contrary? Not that they necessarily have to at this point, they would wait 20 years if they wanted. I suppose their only risk in holding off is if there is a legal challenge in the vein we've discussed and the ruling goes against DVC. It should be interesting for some time to come.

 

[AnnaS]

My dh and just had ours notarized today - we did extend on our small 60 point add on when it was offered but not the original contract. I had forgotten all about this. Wasn't this supposed to be done when they offered the extension? I don't remember getting this Quit Deed claim before.

I am sure a silly question - why isn't our signature enough - and two witnesses too. I am not complaining but it was annoying that we had to go to three branches to find a notary. The first one we were told she was out to lunch, the second time they told us they don't have a notary there and sent us to another branch. Third branch no problem - just a 20 minute wait.

Just need to mail it out now. I had my sister sign as one witness. I am going to let my son sign as the second witness.

 

[Chuck S]

My dh and just had ours notarized today - we did extend on our small 60 point add on when it was offered but not the original contract. I had forgotten all about this. Wasn't this supposed to be done when they offered the extension? I don't remember getting this Quit Deed claim before.

I am sure a silly question - why isn't our signature enough - and two witnesses too. I am not complaining but it was annoying that we had to go to three branches to find a notary. The first one we were told she was out to lunch, the second time they told us they don't have a notary there and sent us to another branch. Third branch no problem - just a 20 minute wait.

Just need to mail it out now. I had my sister sign as one witness. I am going to let my son sign as the second witness.

It is interesting that the bank didn't have witnesses. For us, the notary acted as one witness, and the called a loan officer out of an office to act as the other witness. They do it all the time, with car loans and mortgages, so it was no problem for them to provide the additional witness.

 

[AnnaS]

It is interesting that the bank didn't have witnesses. For us, the notary acted as one witness, and the called a loan officer out of an office to act as the other witness. They do it all the time, with car loans and mortgages, so it was no problem for them to provide the additional witness.

The bank rep. who approached us said let me see if we can do this for you and we followed him in his cubicle where he entered our licenses in the computer (probably to check to see if we had an account there - this was a branch we don't normally go into). He then took the paper and licenses to someone in a different cubicle to get it notarized. After he came back, I commented I can't believe they (Disney) also want two witnesses and we left. I had my sister sign at my mom's house and when I got home my son signed for the other one. They were probably supposed to be signed in front of the notary public agent Oh well! Made copy and ready to get mailed out tomorrow.

 

[Dean]

The bank rep. who approached us said let me see if we can do this for you and we followed him in his cubicle where he entered our licenses in the computer (probably to check to see if we had an account there - this was a branch we don't normally go into). He then took the paper and licenses to someone in a different cubicle to get it notarized. After he came back, I commented I can't believe they (Disney) also want two witnesses and we left. I had my sister sign at my mom's house and when I got home my son signed for the other one. They were probably supposed to be signed in front of the notary public agent Oh well! Made copy and ready to get mailed out tomorrow.

Recording requirements for deeds in Orange County. DVC requires two witnesses and a notary for ALL deeds. The notary can serve as a witness but the act of notarization does not count as one of the witnesses. I believe FL law requires 2 witnesses for deeds that convey property.

 

[saintstickets]

The original vote was to offer the extension at $25 per point. They discounted that to $15 for those accepting the extension before March, 2008. As Chuck noted, the price then increased to $20 per point but could be higher at this time. I have not seen any recent reports about what level it might be at now.

I inquired 2 weeks ago about an add-on at OKW to my current contract. The add-on was quoted with the extended years. Without my asking, I was offered to extend my existing contract for $25/pt.

 

[PBB]

I agree with Chuck about notary costs. I could get notary services free at many places...my bank, my credit union, a place of employment...Most companies have a secretary or some offical who has a notary license to simplify things for them.

Sure there are places to get them free. However, the $ 30 is just a stipend to say they gave you money for any expenses you might have incurred. It is not payment for signing the quitclaim deed. If it was it would have stated this in the quitclaim deed. If DVC is trying to claim that this money is for signing then they are going to have hard time selling this.