Okay. SIL has gone too far this time

[Myothername]

A little background. We are not close to my FIL. My husband's parents were divorced when he was small and had no relationship with the man until we had our son. FIL then decided he was going to be a lonely old man in a nursing home and he better mend some bridges. It has not been the best relationship and honestly I just think of him as this old man that we know.

My husband's sister lives about 15 hours from us and about 5 hours from their father. We live about 12 hours from FIL. He was in a great nursing home fully paid for by insurance (yeah it was a union policy and unbelievable) until SIL got on this kick about hospice and moved him to a veterans hospice facility. Well, the old guy got better so they are kicking him out. He can't get into the wonderful nursing home anymore so she is moving him to a home near her. It is not the best nursing home according to her but that is where she is sticking him.

She has control over all of the money right now and is executrix of the estate when he dies. We asked once a couple of years ago for copies of checks for all these things she has been paying for. Well the records were very sparse. Checks written out of order from different check books, many many checks missing. I was a paralegal for 17 years and did lots of probate work and this just does not pass the smell test at all. My husband and I have discussed for years that we may have to hire an attorney at some point to check all this out.

FIL gets social security and a pension plus he has this insurance for the nursing home. Now she wants to pay herself a salary to go see her father and take him to doctor visits. I am just beyond appalled at her nerve. It is wrong on so many levels and my husband agrees. She is not employed so it is not like she has to take off work to tend to his business and the nursing home is not that far from her house. I told my husband he needs to put his foot down on this one. He has never stood up to his sister. She is very overbearing, loud, bossy, etc. What do you think? Am I totally wrong on this?

 

[kellyg403]

I agree that something doesn't pass the smell taste. My concern would be when the money is gone, will SIL be taking care of things then? I doubt it, kinda sounds like its extra income for her.

I would definitely find a way to speak to an attorney. Honestly, though if your dh isn't wanting to fight the fight, you may be just a spectator till it all comes crashing down.

I empathize with you..I have seen this exact thing happen to a good friend. She wore herself out in her df last years taking care of him because there was little money left and she could not in her heart let him be in a state facility.

Kelly

 

[famofsix]

has your husband maintained a relationship with his sister over the years or was he estranged from her until your son was born? If the answer is yes I think I would leave it be since she is the one with the primary relationship.

Unless you think there is a chance that the "old man" will be in your care someday then the money might matter for his care otherwise I would just stay unattached to it

 

[WDSearcher]

I think you're wrong.

My question is ... if you don't have a good relationship with FIL and you just consider him to be "this old man you know", then why do you care? Is he being treated badly? Are you worried about his well-being? Do you dislike your SIL? Are you hoping that your husband / kids get some inheritance and think she's squandering all of it?

If SIL DOES have a relationship with her father, then she SHOULD be compensated for handling all his finances, etc. So what if she's not working? Would you agree to her taking some money for it if she was working? If she was less bossy and brassy would you care less about her getting compensated? I mean ... it stinks that she pulled him out of a great retirement place for a less great one, but did you guys try to talk her out of it or do anything to try to keep him in the other place?

I guess I'm wondering why you care so much about the finances of "some old man you know"?

 

[luvmy3]

What kind of relationship did/does the SIL have with the father? My answer depends on that.
I know if I had to take care of my estranged Mother I would see it as a job, and not my duty as a daughter. I'm not sure I'd ask to be paid for my services but honestly who knows. If i had to take my car, and my gas, and my time to cart her all over I wouldn't want to incur those costs. Of course my mother abandoned me and was a stranger to me until the day she died. I don't know what kind of relationship your FIL has with your SIL. While there will be many that say its family, it doesn't matter thats what family does, has most likely never been in the same situation
Having said all that, the check thing smells fishy, I don't condone any kind of stealing.

 

[chamonix]

Is FIL mentally unable to consent to this arrangement? Dementia, etc? Has he been declared incompetent? If not, it's his call if he wants to pay her a salary or not. Has your dh spoken to his father to see whether this is ok with him? I can imagine a situation where the older person would feel like less of a burden if they were able to compensate the person driving them to appointments, etc. So perhaps he is comfortable and even happy about the arrangement. (?)

That being said, no decent child would take $$ from a parent for doing those things unless absolutely necessary, due to loss of wages, not able to afford paying for gas, etc. I know there is no way I would accept money from a parent for doing those things. (edited to add, if it's like the situation mentioned above, a parent who had completely abandoned a child and they had zero relationship until the end, that's different)

I think in the end, though, if the goal is that FIL is well-taken care of and happy, then maybe it's best for him to pay her a salary as long as it's not such an excessive amount that he is unable to pay for his actual daily care out of his pension and insurance. If it will eat away at an inheritance (investments, savings, etc) then it may also be a good way to transfer his wealth without paying inheritance taxes after his death. (talk to a tax person for that info!)

Good luck, sis sounds like a gem. Dh should offer to take over for her and move him closer to you, if the money is right. i bet she changes her tune after that conversation.

 

[marlynnp]

Based on your background, I'd expect that you know a Power of Attorney can be revoked if the agent abuses it.

If you feel strongly about it and you and your husband are willing to step into that role, see an attorney.

 

[golfgal]

What is the end goal here? Are you afraid you won't get an inheritance? What would be the purpose of talking to a lawyer? I understand that she may very well be stealing money or not handling money properly but what is your purpose?

 

[C.Ann]

I think you're wrong.

My question is ... if you don't have a good relationship with FIL and you just consider him to be "this old man you know", then why do you care? Is he being treated badly? Are you worried about his well-being? Do you dislike your SIL? Are you hoping that your husband / kids get some inheritance and think she's squandering all of it?

If SIL DOES have a relationship with her father, then she SHOULD be compensated for handling all his finances, etc. So what if she's not working? Would you agree to her taking some money for it if she was working? If she was less bossy and brassy would you care less about her getting compensated? I mean ... it stinks that she pulled him out of a great retirement place for a less great one, but did you guys try to talk her out of it or do anything to try to keep him in the other place?

I guess I'm wondering why you care so much about the finances of "some old man you know"?

I think these are kind of the questions I'm wondering about too.. I'm a little confused..

 

[hereyago]

A little background. We are not close to my FIL. My husband's parents were divorced when he was small and had no relationship with the man until we had our son. FIL then decided he was going to be a lonely old man in a nursing home and he better mend some bridges. It has not been the best relationship and honestly I just think of him as this old man that we know.

My husband's sister lives about 15 hours from us and about 5 hours from their father. We live about 12 hours from FIL. He was in a great nursing home fully paid for by insurance (yeah it was a union policy and unbelievable) until SIL got on this kick about hospice and moved him to a veterans hospice facility. Well, the old guy got better so they are kicking him out. He can't get into the wonderful nursing home anymore so she is moving him to a home near her. It is not the best nursing home according to her but that is where she is sticking him.

She has control over all of the money right now and is executrix of the estate when he dies. We asked once a couple of years ago for copies of checks for all these things she has been paying for. Well the records were very sparse. Checks written out of order from different check books, many many checks missing. I was a paralegal for 17 years and did lots of probate work and this just does not pass the smell test at all. My husband and I have discussed for years that we may have to hire an attorney at some point to check all this out.

FIL gets social security and a pension plus he has this insurance for the nursing home. Now she wants to pay herself a salary to go see her father and take him to doctor visits. I am just beyond appalled at her nerve. It is wrong on so many levels and my husband agrees. She is not employed so it is not like she has to take off work to tend to his business and the nursing home is not that far from her house. I told my husband he needs to put his foot down on this one. He has never stood up to his sister. She is very overbearing, loud, bossy, etc. What do you think? Am I totally wrong on this?

YOu know possibly in that state it is elder abuse? especially as you stated with the messed up check book,etc. Pay herself a salary, um nope. I was my DF POA and executor along with DM's POA and executor-only child here and more resposible then DM. And I have never gotten a salary. If your FIL is still has his capacities, he can remove her from being in charge of his money.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

 

[LuvLDM]

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

This.

 

[shirleyb]

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

Yep

 

[MrsJackSparrow4Life]

Was the original Nursing home 5 hours away from SIL or is the nursing home he is in now 5 hours away?

If it is the current one then I would expect some compensation for driving 5 hours each way for doctors visits.

And I agree with PPs, if you don't care about the FIL (he is just a person you know) then leave it be. You're just going to end up looking like money hungry relatives, even if you're not.

 

[krcit]

What is the end goal here? Are you afraid you won't get an inheritance? What would be the purpose of talking to a lawyer? I understand that she may very well be stealing money or not handling money properly but what is your purpose?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[beck0321]

Taking care of someone in a nursing home is NOT an easy job. It's hard enough when it's someone you actually care about, much less for someone you have basically no relationship with. It takes up A LOT of your time and I doubt you will want to take on that responsibility (speaking from first hand experience). Trust me, I think SIL is doing you guys a favor in that regard. Now, when SIL starts complaining that she wants someone else to do the job, that's when I'd start worrying.

ETA: Your FIL may very well end up with nothing anyway. Nursing homes are so so so expensive. My grandparents had/have nothing but their house left to their name. It's sad...
Also, if your FIL does run out of money and has to apply for Medicaid, they are going to look back 7 years on what has been done with his money, so I hope your SIL is consulting with a lawyer in that regard, because she may end up being responsible for any money she's taking out that doesn't qualify under their terms.

ETA again: Sorry, didn't think of this, but you might want to make sure that what she is doing is legal at least in that sense so that when the money does run out and if she is responsible for it, she doesn't come running to you guys and ask you to pay. That would be the only thing I would have reservations about. If she can legally pay herself and is documenting it legally, then I say, let her be.

 

[mdsoccermom]

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

Amen.

 

[powellrj]

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

You said it so much better than I could.

 

[mumom95]

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

This

 

[Polyluvr]

So let me get this straight.
1- FIL is just some old guy you know.
2- You and your DH are not helping with doctor visits etc.
3- You are angry because unemployed SIL is taking a salary for actually helping the guy. (which she is legally allowed to do)
4- You want to know where all the money from this old man that you know is.
5- You and DH are going to "put your foot down" because you can't account for every dime yet you are not helping with anything.
6- DH has never stood up to his sister because she is loud and bossy and yet she is the one taking care of FIL not your DH.
7- You are very concerned about money money money.

I am sorry but imo you should just be thankful that someone is actually taking care of the man. You are not entitled to anything. If someone does chose to leave you something then be grateful. Maybe there is more to it but the only thing that really comes across to me in your post is that you want his money.

ITA!