Ok so it's time to ask for help...I need help.

Do you have a 401k that you can get a low interest loan from? DH got a loan from his and we paid off a couple of high balance, high interest cards with it. The loan payment, which is withheld from his check, is lower than the minimum monthly payments for both cards. The loan will be paid off in 3.5 years, so there is a definite end in sight! We were both very happy with this decision and we are tickled that we don't have those CC's hanging over our heads! Good luck! I know this isn't easy!

I just did this also the interest is 3% and will be paid off in 24 months directly taken out of my paycheck. Didn't even know I had that option when I called my 401k company to withdraw the money and they said I could just pay myself back with a loan :wizard:

To the OP - Is this an option for you? Hope you'll find a solution to paying off your debt. A 2nd job for either one of us isn't possible and no overtime available either. I've lost alot of sleep over my own personal debt wondering how to pay it off completely. I was thrown off guard by a layoff...but whatever your situation is, you are NOT alone. Hang in there and work with the CC companies as you can.
 
Thanks for your vote of confidence! I just want to attack this and ugh it's hard. Harder than I thought quite honestly. We will see what the counseling service has to say when we meet with them. If nothing else it will be interesting to say the least. I can say thought that even though things are tight I don't see us near backruptcy. Everything is current - we haven't defaulted on anything. I mean am I blind - are we close to needing to claim bankruptcy?

Michelle

You are one broken furnace, one short term disability, one transmission gone out on the car or the house needs a new roof or the copay on a broken bone for the kid is $1000 away from needing to claim bankruptcy. Because you won't be able to make your payments then. You are the people that are talked about who live paycheck to paycheck and if just one bad thing happens, it snowballs.
 
You are one broken furnace, one short term disability, one transmission gone out on the car or the house needs a new roof or the copay on a broken bone for the kid is $1000 away from needing to claim bankruptcy. Because you won't be able to make your payments then. You are the people that are talked about who live paycheck to paycheck and if just one bad thing happens, it snowballs.

As someone who has gone through some really rough times financially, I totally agree with this statement. One big thing (or not so big thing) going wrong can make everything else snowball in a really quick and bad way.

It is good that you are going to credit counseling. I used CCCS many years ago (in another life it seems...lol) and it was very helpful. You have to be careful not to get back into debt once you graduate from the program. Without a lifestyle change, it is easy to get in over your head again.

By going over the expenses/income you posted earlier, if you spend $700 on food and such, you come up about $241 short each month. Of course if you get rid of the landline and get your cc payments reduced thorugh credit counseling you will have a small cushion but you still need to either make more money or you need to reduce your spending. It is going to require some really hard choices, i.e. a part time jobs, selling the house and renting, moving much closer to where you work, getting rid of DISH, etc.

GL! Keep us posted on how you are doing.
 
You are one broken furnace, one short term disability, one transmission gone out on the car or the house needs a new roof or the copay on a broken bone for the kid is $1000 away from needing to claim bankruptcy. Because you won't be able to make your payments then. You are the people that are talked about who live paycheck to paycheck and if just one bad thing happens, it snowballs.

I never really thought about it like this. I can't believe I never thought about it like this. Your so right - that's all it would take is one thing to happen and then we are screwed. Thanks for opening my eyes about this Crisi.

Lastly does anyone know how I can begin to talk to my dh about this? He knows we have high cc payments and he knows basically about what the bills are per month but he doesn't know what is all going out and what is coming in and our deficit at the end of the month. I feel like I have tried to shield him from it but I have kept it from him too - on purpose. Like I said I don't want to look like I have failed us - which admittedly I have though by not involoving him and by letting it get so carried away. We could be so much more successful if I hadn't .... well..... any suggestions out there?
 

I never really thought about it like this. I can't believe I never thought about it like this. Your so right - that's all it would take is one thing to happen and then we are screwed. Thanks for opening my eyes about this Crisi.

Lastly does anyone know how I can begin to talk to my dh about this? He knows we have high cc payments and he knows basically about what the bills are per month but he doesn't know what is all going out and what is coming in and our deficit at the end of the month. I feel like I have tried to shield him from it but I have kept it from him too - on purpose. Like I said I don't want to look like I have failed us - which admittedly I have though by not involoving him and by letting it get so carried away. We could be so much more successful if I hadn't .... well..... any suggestions out there?

Get all the paperwork together, ask a friend or neighbor to watch the kids and then sit at the kitchen table and show him the facts. Explain how the family is teetering on a pinhead and how stressed out you are. Ask him for suggestions and then start working on your plan.
 
I never really thought about it like this. I can't believe I never thought about it like this. Your so right - that's all it would take is one thing to happen and then we are screwed. Thanks for opening my eyes about this Crisi.

Lastly does anyone know how I can begin to talk to my dh about this? He knows we have high cc payments and he knows basically about what the bills are per month but he doesn't know what is all going out and what is coming in and our deficit at the end of the month. I feel like I have tried to shield him from it but I have kept it from him too - on purpose. Like I said I don't want to look like I have failed us - which admittedly I have though by not involoving him and by letting it get so carried away. We could be so much more successful if I hadn't .... well..... any suggestions out there?

Sit him down and show him ALL the financial statements. Tell him that you need to share this as the plan to repair your finances is more than you can handle.

It's not about your or his problem; it's a family problem. If your kids are old enough to understand money crunch, I would also tell them about the problems. Explain that there would be generic cereal instead of Fruit Loops and more sandwhiches for lunch instead of lunchables or whatever.

The only way I could see this causing a big issue if you were secretly shopping on credit cards and never telling your husband. If that is the case then it's a whole different ballgame. If that isn't the case then the purchases were made with both your consent. It's a joint problem and needs a family solution.
 
I never really thought about it like this. I can't believe I never thought about it like this. Your so right - that's all it would take is one thing to happen and then we are screwed. Thanks for opening my eyes about this Crisi.

And that's why the advice is somewhat harsh about selling the cars, or cutting the cell phone bill (how about a simple tracphone at home for the kids to use in an emergency?) or not even spending the gas to visit the cottage.

If it were me, I'd have gone nuts long ago (and years ago, it was me). I would be rehoming the pets because pet food is expensive and vet bills could push you over the edge. I'd be living off rice, beans, frozen spinach and what I could pull out of a garden. When it was me, I lived in a house that in the Minnesota winter had the heat set to 55 degrees - and I wore my coat in the house. But I have a huge need for financial security (perhaps in part due to the horrible circumstances I was left in when my first husband left me and I couldn't afford to heat my house) and tend to overreact.
 
/
I just wanted to show you this site I found. www.whosaidnothinginlifeisfree.com With her finds I have been able to get some of the great deals on shampoos, soaps, and other stuff that seems to drive the grocery bill up. Many things for less than $1. She is in FL so some of her finds are regional but many are useful.
 
Good on you for deciding to take control of the situation and do something about it!

As others have pointed out, even if you can't get a lot of money for it, getting rid of the SUV might be one way to reduce your monthly expenses just by getting it off the insurance. Whatever you save in insurance monthly can automatically go right towards paying more towards your highest interest credit card.

Groceries seem to be the most likely place for you to reduce spending though as others have said. Since you say you have a freezer full of beef, maybe start out by planning a week's worth of meals around what you've got in the freezer and what's in your pantry already, alternating a beef day with a vegetarian day (or, if you've got some on hand, chicken, pork, or seafood days). I make it a personal goal to eat one week a month only from what I've already got in the house. I don't always completely succeed, but it helps keep my pantry and freezer under control, and saves money. Also, unless you're buying fancy, expensive vegetarian ingredients (like organic imported veggies or processed meat replacements), eating vegetarian can definitely be a money saver if you do it a few days a week.

Dried beans are pretty darn cheap as far as protein goes and they have tons of fiber. Bags of dried beans are also pretty cheap. If you've got any Hispanic or Asian grocery stores near you, you can usually find a much larger variety of beans and huge bags of rice for cheaper than at some other stores. I've got a store called Lotte Plaza near me which is Asian grocery for the most part - they have an entire huge aisle of bags and bags of dried beans, more kinds of beans than I ever knew existed, and an entire aisle of different kinds of rice in all size bags. You can sometimes also find really good prices on produce and meats from these grocery stores, and if you like tofu, the Asian supermarkets tend to have good prices on that as well. The vegetarian meals don't have to all be rice and beans either (although made right, rice and beans can be delicious and there are tons of different styles and variations). You can make meatless chili, make your own bean burgers, make bean tacos, beans soups, etc. And any recipes you find that call for canned beans, just replace with 2 cups of cooked dried beans (nothing wrong with canned beans really, dried beans you cook yourself are just much cheaper, and you can cook a bunch once a week, split into 2-cup portions and freeze for later use).

Eggs can also be a pretty cheap source of protein. My sister and her husband have omelet night once a week. Getting some vegetarian and/or budget cookbooks from the library can be great inspirations for both egg meals and bean meals as well as venturing into tofu, tempeh, and seitan.

Something I haven't seen mentioned is maybe join your local freecycle group if you've got one. You never know what may be offered up, and sometimes you can get stuff for free (furniture, unopened food products or toiletries, kids clothing, books, toys, etc.). As others have mentioned yard sales, you can also try selling stuff on Craigslist, and just put whatever you make from selling directly towards the highest interest credit card.

Good luck with whatever you end up trying!
 
I think that you have gotten great advice and the small cuts you are making will make a minor difference. The question that I have is will they be enough? You have debt payments (mort, car, equity, CC) of 2647 a month. That is over 60% of your takehome. This leaves you 1735 a month or less than 400 a week to live on. You are fundamentally out of balance. I ran a quick mortgage calculator and to support your mortgage you need about $60K of income and no other debt. If you put in the 1500 in credit cards, car & equity you would need approx 90K of income a year to qualify for the mortgage that you are carrying.

I read a good book on personal finance by Elizabeth Warren and her daughter called "All your worth". She is also the author of "the 2 income trap". Her basic premise in "all you worth" is that you can not nickel and dime yourself to financial security. Eliminating the latte factor and saving $50 a month here or there is never going to make someone feel wealthy. You need to get your monthly must have expenses to a reasonable level to allow for some wants and some savings (or debt repayment instead of savings). She recommends

50% for "Must Haves" which are: A place to live, utilities, medical care, insurance, transportation, basic food, & minimum payments on your "can't escape legal obligations".

20% for savings or debt repayment

30% for wants:

You are in the neighborhood of 90% for your must haves (I added everything on your list except the dish and phones and i estimated 400 for must have food). Your budget does not include car repairs, household maintenance, any major purchases, gifts(christmas, birthdays). If you include those type of must haves you are spending more than 100% of you income on the must haves. This is why you feel cash poor. You really have very little left for wants and beyond your CC payments have nothing at all for savings or debt repayment.

The answer is that you have to figure out how to get your must have % down. You have some great ideas already. Is it time to sell the house and rent something smaller. Is there a way to increase income. Can you father give you a financial gift instead of the Disney trips. I think if you can get rid of the credit card debt. make meaningful changes to your lifestle and live on a tight budget you might be able to make it. In your current structure, you are really just digging deeper into debt each year.
 
Do a debt snowball. We've been doing it for about 6 months and have paid off $10,000 in six months. It's hurting my credit, but once I came to the realization that if we live BELOW our means we don't need any credit. We'll keep these cars and then rebuild our credit once we are completely debt free (other than our mortgage).
 
I never really thought about it like this. I can't believe I never thought about it like this. Your so right - that's all it would take is one thing to happen and then we are screwed. Thanks for opening my eyes about this Crisi.

Lastly does anyone know how I can begin to talk to my dh about this? He knows we have high cc payments and he knows basically about what the bills are per month but he doesn't know what is all going out and what is coming in and our deficit at the end of the month. I feel like I have tried to shield him from it but I have kept it from him too - on purpose. Like I said I don't want to look like I have failed us - which admittedly I have though by not involoving him and by letting it get so carried away. We could be so much more successful if I hadn't .... well..... any suggestions out there?

Michelle, you have not let your husband or your children down. There was no course in personal finance in my high school. If there was during all that time even when I went to college, I never knew of it. My husband would gladly leave all the money management to me too, but I won't let him. Even if you don't have much debt, it is too big a responsibility for just one partner to carry. You did what you could with what you have. Its hard to suggest to someone who works really hard for a living "NO" when they want something. I know I'd like to think that salary I club and drag home has something in it for ME instead of all of it going into the family pot. I work hard, shouldn't I enjoy it too?

I wanted more than two children. My husband felt we could do and experience more with just two, so we just had two. I wanted to either stay at home or work part time when they were babies, also when my husband retired, but that didn't happen either. So my kids won't have to have their parents move in when they are too old to care for themselves. My kids will have their college education paid for by their parents. My parents will have their daughter able to care for them in their home when they are too old or ill to care for themselves. My husband and I don't have to count on any Social Security when we retire.

Paying off those credit cards won't fix the problem. You have to fix the problem that led to those credit cards reaching the balance they did.



:grouphug:

This is your DH's mess too, by not keeping himself fully aware of the family finances down to the nickel, he didn't have to watch what he spent or have to push himself to earn more. It lets him off the hook. Put it puts YOU on that hook. Please don't beat yourself up for something that is not solely your responsibility. Whomever in your home added the debt to those credit cards be it from impulse purchases or not enough month for your monthly basic expenses, it is done.

Just write down your debts, then write down your take home pay. Just show him.
 
I don't have any new financial advice but want to send you lots of encouragement. Dh and I have paid off a ton of debt that seemed impossible when we first started and it truly can be done. If you need to make major lifestyle sacrifices then so be it. You have your dh and your kids which is so much more important and honestly the sacrifices won't compare to the relief you'll feel once you start seeing your debt fall away. I hope things work out for you.
 
Mousefanmichelle-
Good luck, you should speak with your dh asap. I think you will feel better in the long run.
I would trim your grocery in half. There are many ways to do that- all of them are here on the Budget board, coupon game, aldi(or generic brand), meatless meals, and no spend months. I focus on buying meat at 50% off, and then have a well stocked pantry- I keep it under $400 for 4 people for a month( no garden due to no land this year-I could have it down to $350 if I did). Use a menu to utilize what you have( even if it is a loose version- like I have these foods on had to make these meals this week). H and B items can be gotten very cheap if you use coupons and cvs strageties or inexpensive brands at grocery. Any savings you accumilate keep 1/2 for emergencies and 1/2 toward paying off cc using snowball method. Borrow books from library, see what you can sell on craigs list or ebay.
There are tons of people here to support you.
 
Ok everyone here is an update so to speak. Our appt with the counseling co. was this morning and all last night I was just procrastinating and didn't want to pull any of the info together to bring with us. My dh came home from work early last night (11:30pm instead of 12:40am) and I started talking.

I told him that I posted on here and tried to get some advice. He was a little peeved, as I knew he would be, that I could tell complete strangers and not him. Understandable. I then broke out Dave R's budget worksheet that I had filled out and showed him where all of our money goes each month and our shortfall at the end of each month. He didn't seemed suprised. He was a little mad that I couldn't just write down what the bills were and what I paid every week to share with him. Again, understandable. He took it well.

This morning we got to the place and they pulled my credit report (not his) and talked to us about debt management which is us paying them to negotiate lower intrest rates and set payments with our 4 credit cards. They told us about bankruptcy and the other option of us not paying our credit cards at all and letting the chips fall where they may, if you will.

My dh and I left there with information in hand. We didn't sign up for anything. My dh is going to call our CC's and see what he can do himself, first, about lowering our payments or our interest rates before we pay someone to do it for us. He is fully supportive of me and tells me he is going to help me and we can do this together. He knows my biggest concern is that we have nothing for an emergency and we are basically, like Crisi said, 1 disaster away from bankruptcy. I feel sick over this. Honestly really sick. I held back the tears as he went home and I went to work but I just feel sick. How did I let this happen?

I don't think the counseling service was all that and a bag of chips. I don't know what I was expecting - maybe a miracle - maybe better advice - maybe I am living in my own little world. I really wanted better advice on how to tame our budget but you all have been much more helpful and honest. I don't want to pay them a start-up cost and then $50 a month to do this. I don't know that my dh does either. I guess we will be doing a lot of talking in the next few days.

Just wanted to update eveyone who has been so helpful to me and tell you thank you! I will keep posting, if anyone is interested in reading :)

Michelle
 
Do yourself a favor, write this. Write down how sick you feel over this and put it on an index card in your wallet.

Because you ARE going to fix this, and the day will come where there is a great deal that you "shouldn't" afford but "might, could" afford and you are going to forget. And when you get this fixed, you never want to feel like this again.

It does sound like you and Dave Ramsey might be a good match. His books are available at a library where his program won't cost you a cent. And while people around here will tell you I'm no fan, I can have no complaint with the results people get from his program.
 
Just wanted to update eveyone who has been so helpful to me and tell you thank you! I will keep posting, if anyone is interested in reading :)

Please continue to post, we will continue to support you and maybe give you some new ideas that pop up.

Also, I wanted to add that now that your DH knows the whole situation that he may start making suggestions for ways to save money. You both need to evaluate things on a need vs. want mindset and you may find that things that you thought were needs, he may actually consider them wants.

I don't recall the ages of your children, but if they are older then I'd highly recommend getting them involved. Not so much from a "get out and work to support the family mindset" but from the direction that they can learn from your mistakes. You should learn how to handle your finances as a family so that when they are older and out on their own they don't make the same mistakes.

:hug:
 
Great job telling him and realizing that you don't need another company to bail you out. You need to just do it- stay home-don't spend money. I know it was had to do but at least he is helping.:thumbsup2
 
Remember...when you call your credit cards and let them know you are having a hard time paying...yes they do work with you....but payer beware....

lets say your min payment is $400 and you can't afford it, well they let you pay $200 a month for 6 mos and then back to reg payments or such....

YOU need to know....they are going to report your credit card late every month that you are in that "special payment" program. The $200 you are not paying is considered past due.

so yes...they work with you but you get dinged anyway...oh and then you are for sure goign to get default % rates, limit lowered, or acct closed at some point.

so that is not always the answer. Good luck with what ever you decide to do. :goodvibes
 
Just want to offer the OP encouragement, and to thank robsmom for the post. I found it very interesting and need to take a look at the percentage of income that I am devoting to "must haves" versus wants and debt repayment.

The part that I need to think about is how to go about changing these percentages. For example, it may be clear that you need to pay less for housing, but selling a house in this econonomy might not be feasable.

Still excellent food for thought, and a different mindset than we are used to exploring here. I am doing the "nickel and dime" types of strategies, coupons and looking for sales, etc., which is better than doing nothing, but I am not sure if I can change or eliminate any of the big ticket expenses that we have right now.
 














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