OK, I'll say it... we are too sensitive

[LSUmiss]

So take down all the Washington & Jefferson statues?

Big difference from a monument of a confederate soldier imo.

 

[L&Lfan]

D

To me that is totally illogical and alarmist. You can not erase history. Every country in the world has books about history. There are museums dedicated to history, again, around the world. And why would anyone want to? That isn't even close to the point of removing the statues. I'm sorry, but that just isn't a good argument.

Didn’t the Taliban basically erase Afghanistan’s pre-Islamic history? Or try to? Just sayin’ it could happen anywhere and that particular time it could perhaps succeed...

 

[luvsJack]

New Orleans has been here since 1719. Long before the civil war or the US. It is located in the south but for the most part is not a Southern city. Most monuments put up were put up by white supremacists during 1900s long after the civil war was over. They do not represent the diverse city New Orleans has always been. Now, I know there have been some ugly things in our past too (and still are). I’m not naive. And, I don’t think the history should be erased. But, a monument is for honoring like the pp said. And that’s not appropriate here now for sure (if it ever was).

New Orleans had slaves and plantations and all the rest. There is a history there from before the Civil War just as there is in a lot of Southern cities but yes, it is very much part of the south.

 

[luvsJack]

Out of the history books? No, of course not. At least not as long as they are including the part about the slaves. How do you discuss someone that was that important to the building of this country and not "honor" them? By doing exactly that: teaching about them in the schools, but there is no need to glorify them with statues. And yes, there is certainly a lot of gray. There is no way any steps to address this are going to make everyone happy. Impossible.

I don't understand how you believe getting rid of statues is eliminating history. History is what's in the books, that will always be there.

Of course the feelings of Native Americans and Japanese Americans are important - this thread has mostly focused on African Americans, but I have no problem with those type of monuments coming down either.

History is not what's in books. History is the people and the places and the happenings of a time period. If you don't learn and get history from the places around you, from historical sites and museums and monuments and all of those things, you aren't going to learn it at all.

 

[DeniseJH]

D

Didn’t the Taliban basically erase Afghanistan’s pre-Islamic history? Or try to? Just sayin’ it could happen anywhere and that particular time it could perhaps succeed...

I don't think you can compare Afghanistan to the US, or the Taliban our citizens.

 

[LSUmiss]

New Orleans had slaves and plantations and all the rest. There is a history there from before the Civil War just as there is in a lot of Southern cities but yes, it is very much part of the south.

It’s like the op said about Atlanta. The history is there, but it’s much more progressive now than is typical in the south.

 

[DeniseJH]

History is not what's in books. History is the people and the places and the happenings of a time period. If you don't learn and get history from the places around you, from historical sites and museums and monuments and all of those things, you aren't going to learn it at all.

History is what's in the books. How many people do you really think travel the country to learn about history, instead of picking up a book on the subject they are interested in? Most don't have the time, or the resources. And with computers these days you don't even have to buy a book! If history is not what's in the history books, it certainly isn't a monument.

 

[sam_gordon]

Big difference from a monument of a confederate soldier imo.

PP said we should get rid of all statues of people "connected to slavery". Washington and Jefferson OWNED slaves. So, do you think their statues should come down?

 

[L&Lfan]

I don't think you can compare Afghanistan to the US, or the Taliban our citizens.

I was responding to your comment that you cannot erase history. The Taliban either did or tried their damndest to. It’s naive, imo, to think it couldn’t happen here under the right conditions.

 

[DeniseJH]

I was responding to your comment that you cannot erase history. The Taliban either did or tried their damndest to. It’s naive, imo, to think it couldn’t happen here under the right conditions.

"..under the right conditions." anything is possible - doesn't mean it's likely, or probable.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

New Orleans has been here since 1719. Long before the civil war or the US. It is located in the south but for the most part is not a Southern city. Most monuments put up were put up by white supremacists during 1900s long after the civil war was over. They do not represent the diverse city New Orleans has always been. Now, I know there have been some ugly things in our past too (and still are). I’m not naive. And, I don’t think the history should be erased. But, a monument is for honoring like the pp said. And that’s not appropriate here now for sure (if it ever was).

The thing is people are very reactionary right now. They see something and want it gone. No longer can many people actually discuss things it's often just vandalized, or destroyed and then there is little choice left in the matter.

If there was discussions that were civil, respectful and mature regarding if X statue should be relocated (note not destroyed) elsewhere it would be such a different atmosphere.

I personally don't believe in destroying something but I can certainly understand relocating it (though I don't think we need relocate every single thing that could possibly have any sort of tiny bit of a connection to something). For me it's about preserving history the good and the bad. And there are a variety of statues and monuments that may be of a person or entity but aren't there to call attention to Y. They are about something entirely different but again for some people it's get rid of it all.

 

[LSUmiss]

PP said we should get rid of all statues of people "connected to slavery". Washington and Jefferson OWNED slaves. So, do you think their statues should come down?

I think it’s worth a discussion after reading what she posted. But, I feel much more comfortable with taking down statues of men who committed treason & fought to keep ppl enslaved especially when those statues where put up (in this area) but white supremacists.

 

[luvsJack]

History is what's in the books. How many people do you really think travel the country to learn about history, instead of picking up a book on the subject they are interested in? Most don't have the time, or the resources. And with computers these days you don't even have to buy a book! If history is not what's in the history books, it certainly isn't a monument.

History is in books but it is not only in books. You don't have to travel the country. I learned a great deal of history around my own community. Geiger Lake, built by German POWs. Brick streets downtown, some built by slaves, some rebuilt by POWs. A neighbor who owns a huge frame with her portrait in it, the frame came from Hitler's home. The two antebellum mansions that were in our area. And even monuments that are in our town around the courthouse. All of these things have stories behind them and much

 

[LSUmiss]

The thing is people are very reactionary right now. They see something and want it gone. No longer can many people actually discuss things it's often just vandalized, or destroyed and then there is little choice left in the matter.

If there was discussions that were civil, respectful and mature regarding if X statue should be relocated (note not destroyed) elsewhere it would be such a different atmosphere.

I personally don't believe in destroying something but I can certainly understand relocating it (though I don't think we need relocate every single thing that could possibly have any sort of tiny bit of a connection to something). For me it's about preserving history the good and the bad. And there are a variety of statues and monuments that may be of a person or entity but aren't there to call attention to Y. They are about something entirely different but again for some people it's get rid of it all.

I believe NOLA was the first to begin discussions to take down some of these statues. There were years of mostly civil discussions & then our city council voted to remove them. Not everyone was happy & there was some drama, but a lot of the protests seemed to be coming from “activists” on both sides who weren’t from or living here. Most ppl I know agree they had to come down & now most of the city is involved in trying to come together to decide what will replace the most prominent one that better represents us.

 

[luvsJack]

I think it’s worth a discussion after reading what she posted. But, I feel much more comfortable with taking down statues of men who committed treason & fought to keep ppl enslaved especially when those statues where put up (in this area) but white supremacists.

Robert E Lee's statue was dedicated in 1884 in New Orleans

 

[luvsJack]

It’s like the op said about Atlanta. The history is there, but it’s much more progressive now than is typical in the south.

Ok. We will pretend. The south has a whole is more progressive now. I am curious who you are comparing NOLA to anyway.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I believe NOLA was the first to begin discussions to take down some of these statues. There were years of mostly civil discussions & then our city council voted to remove them. Not everyone was happy & there was some drama, but a lot of the protests seemed to be coming from “activists” on both sides who weren’t from or living here. Most ppl I know agree they had to come down & now most of the city is involved in trying to come together to decide what will replace the most prominent one that better represents us.

I highly doubt you can claim to be the first ones to discuss; unless you're omniscient and immortal.

I was refering to places everywhere in the U.S. not just in your area. Good to know your area can have some discussions at least.

 

[LSUmiss]

History is in books but it is not only in books. You don't have to travel the country. I learned a great deal of history around my own community. Geiger Lake, built by German POWs. Brick streets downtown, some built by slaves, some rebuilt by POWs. A neighbor who owns a huge frame with her portrait in it, the frame came from Hitler's home. The two antebellum mansions that were in our area. And even monuments that are in our town around the courthouse. All of these things have stories behind them and much

Ok then imagine you’re a black kid growing up here in Nola & you ask your parent who Robert E Lee was after you pass Lee Circle (before it came down). And your parent explains...and then you notice it’s the most prominent, tallest, monument in the city. That’s not history but celebration & memorializing. How do you explain that?

 

[LSUmiss]

Ok. We will pretend. The south has a whole is more progressive now. I am curious who you are comparing NOLA to anyway.

I’m comparing Nola & Atlanta to the south in general. For instance, most of Louisiana is still very negatively stereotypical southern compared to Nola.

 

[LSUmiss]

I highly doubt you can claim to be the first ones to discuss; unless you're omniscient and immortal.

I was refering to places everywhere in the U.S. not just in your area. Good to know your area can have some discussions at least.

Publicly discuss. As far as I know, it was the first (somewhat major city) to take them down.