Official WDW Marathon Weekend 2013 Thread

[Reep]

Quick question. I think I know the answer, but wanted to check with all of you guys.

I am currently doing 20-25 miles/week before beginning my marathon training plan in 2 weeks.

I am trying to keep my runs 30-90 seconds per mile slower than marathon pace (usually closer to 30-60 seconds slower).

Is that what I should keep doing? I am doing Higdon's Novice 2 program, which has one MP run most weeks. Should I aim for 30-60 slower on shorter training runs (3-8 miles) and then maybe 90-120 seconds for the long Saturday runs?

Just wondered what everybody else did. Thanks!

Here's how I do it:

1) If your are not sure of your MP, then run a shorter race and use a race equivalent calculator to determine what your MP should be.
2) Run all your runs (except speed work) somewhere between 30-120 sec/mile slower than race pace. It is a big window, but a lot depends on what your MP is. I often start out my long runs at +1:30, but then work them down to 1:00 or :30 over MP as I warm up. I have friends that run a bit slower than me who routinely do their long runs at +:30 and it works well for them. I just can't go out that fast relative to my MP.
3) pace differently for speed work (which is a good idea for anyone). Start at one session per week. A good start is 5-10 400 meter repeats at your 5k pace. Then 3-6 800 meter repeats at 5k pace when you are ready. You can add more and different workouts when you get to that point.

Always remember that the goal for the long and short recovery runs is to get the miles in, but not overtax your body. How much slower than your MP that is depends on the individual. I know <3:00 marathoners who run their slow runs at +2:00/mile. The main thing is to not run your long runs too fast. If you keep training and decide to race marathons then you might do this a bit differently.

 

[steph0808]

Thanks for the insight! Maura - you are exactly spot-on. I have three "goals." My main one is to finish and hopefully under 5 hours. My next goal is 4:45. And the most aggressive is under 4:30, but I will not die trying to get that one.

I have done several races, and the slowest finish time I have had puts me at a 4:43 marathon and the fastest finish time I have had puts me at a 4:18 marathon.

I am following Higdon's Novice 2, which tops out around 36-38 mpw. I was going to do his Intermediate, but I don't want to get my mileage too high too fast and get injured. If I feel Novice 2 isn't cutting it, I will add miles, but I don't want to do so many that training exhausts me.

 

[JCH]

Race distance calculators assume you are running 70 miles a week, not 20.

I am confused. I use Galloways calculators, and his plan maxes out at 45 min, 45 min, 26 miles, which is about 35ish miles, give or take depending on the pace? Higdon's novice plan goes up to 35 miles, and intermediate to 42. This is my first marathon, but I have not seen any "to finish" plans that go to 70 miles per week, yet most have calculators associated with them. So confused!

 

[Ariel484]

I am confused. I use Galloways calculators, and his plan maxes out at 45 min, 45 min, 26 miles, which is about 35ish miles, give or take depending on the pace? Higdon's novice plan goes up to 35 miles, and intermediate to 42. This is my first marathon, but I have not seen any "to finish" plans that go to 70 miles per week, yet most have calculators associated with them. So confused!

I really wouldn't worry. Different plans and methods work for different people. Some people run 3 days per week, some run 5...some max out at 40 mpw, some max out at 70 mpw (and I think this is for a more experienced runner with a time goal). It all depends on what your body can handle and what your goals are.

Pick a plan you think you can work into your schedule and one you think you can stick with, and follow it...you should be fine!

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I am confused. I use Galloways calculators, and his plan maxes out at 45 min, 45 min, 26 miles, which is about 35ish miles, give or take depending on the pace? Higdon's novice plan goes up to 35 miles, and intermediate to 42. This is my first marathon, but I have not seen any "to finish" plans that go to 70 miles per week, yet most have calculators associated with them. So confused!

Run/walk is way different than running alone. MPW is irrelevant to run walk endurance.

 

[cjsull]

Running my first Marathon. Did the half this year using the Galloway method. Had a great time!!
I'm nervous about a Marathon, but I've already had a 17 mile run, so I'm a little ahead of schedule. We'll see if my body can handle this!
Also, my H is wanting to do it with me, but it's hard for him to get leave (military) closer than a month or two before the event. I wish they left some spots open for military that won't know if they can get leave until only a month or two ahead of race weekend.
Either way, I love runDisney!!!

 

[cewait]

Quick question. I think I know the answer, but wanted to check with all of you guys.

I am currently doing 20-25 miles/week before beginning my marathon training plan in 2 weeks.

I am trying to keep my runs 30-90 seconds per mile slower than marathon pace (usually closer to 30-60 seconds slower).

Is that what I should keep doing? I am doing Higdon's Novice 2 program, which has one MP run most weeks. Should I aim for 30-60 slower on shorter training runs (3-8 miles) and then maybe 90-120 seconds for the long Saturday runs?

Just wondered what everybody else did. Thanks!

I am not sure where the 'facts' come in but the only thing a 50-70 mile week does for all but a small percentage of runners is lead to injury. You can put that in the bank - or to luck if you do not have a running background.

Rest easy folks, the calculators commonly used by folks do not require 70 mile weeks and are accurate as long as you are well trained. Well trained meaning running 3-5 times a week and following a well thought out plan. That are statistically based and work well.

For the first time marathoner, run your long runs aerobically. That is at about 80-90% of anaerobic threshold or at a point where you can still carry on a near normal conversation. It's that simple. What you are going to find is that a 9 minute mile on a 8 mile run may end up being a 9:10 at 15 miles. Just run with the day you are dealt.

For a first time marathoner, do not get hung up on pace or estimated finish times. Rather you should have three goals.
1) Finish
2) finish Upright
3) Finish with a smile.

That does not mean you should not be aware of your possible time. IT just means that on race day there will be a surge and urge to go with the crowd. The start will be dark, you cannot see the ground so pacing is tough to judge. Go the first mile slower rather than faster. A training pace run through Animal kingdom (half) is sage advice. Then if you feel very comfortable, step it up 30 sec a mile and see how that goes.

 

[Reep]

I am confused. I use Galloways calculators, and his plan maxes out at 45 min, 45 min, 26 miles, which is about 35ish miles, give or take depending on the pace? Higdon's novice plan goes up to 35 miles, and intermediate to 42. This is my first marathon, but I have not seen any "to finish" plans that go to 70 miles per week, yet most have calculators associated with them. So confused!

For my first marathons I likely went up to about 48 miles/week max (20+10+6+6+6). That was totally fine for my first few marathons. After running a bunch of halfs, I then decided to go more aggressively. Now, I run my peak weeks at 60-65 miles (usually 3-4 weeks) when I want to race a marathon. I'm not a young pup (48), but for me that gets me down <3:00 for the marathon.

Some people can and like to run >70 miles per week. I can't run that much for many reasons, but also believe it isn't necessary. Several of my friends and I have run Boston multiple times and nobody in the group runs more than 60 miles per week. Several are closer to the high 40s. Amazingly, the race equivalent calculators still work for them, even at their low mileage.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I am not sure where the 'facts' come in but the only thing a 50-70 mile week does for all but a small percentage of runners is lead to injury.

That's totally untrue, and I would love to see a cite. For a marathon, a 50 mile base is much, much better than 20.

 

[cewait]

Here's how I do it:

1) If your are not sure of your MP, then run a shorter race and use a race equivalent calculator to determine what your MP should be.
2) Run all your runs (except speed work) somewhere between 30-120 sec/mile slower than race pace. It is a big window, but a lot depends on what your MP is. I often start out my long runs at +1:30, but then work them down to 1:00 or :30 over MP as I warm up. I have friends that run a bit slower than me who routinely do their long runs at +:30 and it works well for them. I just can't go out that fast relative to my MP.
3) pace differently for speed work (which is a good idea for anyone). Start at one session per week. A good start is 5-10 400 meter repeats at your 5k pace. Then 3-6 800 meter repeats at 5k pace when you are ready. You can add more and different workouts when you get to that point.

Always remember that the goal for the long and short recovery runs is to get the miles in, but not overtax your body. How much slower than your MP that is depends on the individual. I know <3:00 marathoners who run their slow runs at +2:00/mile. The main thing is to not run your long runs too fast. If you keep training and decide to race marathons then you might do this a bit differently.

Spot on. Weekdays are for strength and speed. Weekends are for training fuel systems (endurance).

 

[jimandami]

I am confused. I use Galloways calculators, and his plan maxes out at 45 min, 45 min, 26 miles, which is about 35ish miles, give or take depending on the pace? Higdon's novice plan goes up to 35 miles, and intermediate to 42. This is my first marathon, but I have not seen any "to finish" plans that go to 70 miles per week, yet most have calculators associated with them. So confused!

The other thing to think about is that if you just want to finish, you don't really have a time goal and thus, should just run your easy runs easy. What 317 was trying to say is that without high mileage (70ish per week for a full), most runners do not have the aerobic base/endurance to maintain a pace that is equivalent to their 10K or 1/2 Marathon pace. For example, based on my 5K or 10K times, McMillan puts me finishing a 1/2 Marathon at around 1:35-1:40, but I have yet to reach that goal because I haven't put in adequate miles, especially for a novice runner. Yes, I complete Hal's Novice 1 and 2, but for most "serious/competitive" runners, his plans are considered bare minimums because the mileage just isn't there to build a good base of endurance. Thus, when I tried to run my first 1/2 Marathon at the suggested McMillan pace, I blew up around mile 9-10 (well the gi distress probably also contributed) and it was a death march to the finish! I still finished in 2:01, which is respectable for a 1st 1/2 Marathon, but if I had built a better base and had more miles, I should have easily finished at 1:40-1:45. Now, obviously, there are other programs and people who can finish very well despite these things, but for most, a McMillan calculation is not accurate unless you are fairly advanced and running high mileage.

 

[Reep]

I am not sure where the 'facts' come in but the only thing a 50-70 mile week does for all but a small percentage of runners is lead to injury. . . .

Rest easy folks, the calculators commonly used by folks do not require 70 mile weeks and are accurate as long as you are well trained. Well trained meaning running 3-5 times a week and following a well thought out plan. That are statistically based and work well.

For the first time marathoner, run your long runs aerobically. That is at about 80-90% of anaerobic threshold or at a point where you can still carry on a near normal conversation. It's that simple. What you are going to find is that a 9 minute mile on a 8 mile run may end up being a 9:10 at 15 miles. Just run with the day you are dealt.

For a first time marathoner, do not get hung up on pace or estimated finish times. Rather you should have three goals.
1) Finish
2) finish Upright
3) Finish with a smile.

That does not mean you should not be aware of your possible time. IT just means that on race day there will be a surge and urge to go with the crowd. The start will be dark, you cannot see the ground so pacing is tough to judge. Go the first mile slower rather than faster. A training pace run through Animal kingdom (half) is sage advice. Then if you feel very comfortable, step it up 30 sec a mile and see how that goes.

+1

For first timers your pacing is mainly to make sure you don't go out too fast. That can be bad and lead to failure of 2) above. And if ever there is an even where you want to finish upright with a smile, this is it.

 

[MightyDuck001]

Re: hydration packs-

I just got a Nathan backpack style. I love it. It was super comfortable and it was great running without anything around my waist. Didn't love the plastic-y taste that I am sure will subside. I love the pockets on the front of the straps as I carry Ventolin, my iphone (often on call when I run) and a hankie.

I tried on several kinds but this was the most comfortable, and the only one without a lot of anything under my arms where I sometimes get chafing from shirt seams etc.

Very happy with my purchase.

Someone suggested getting rid of the plastic taste with denture tabs, but that made the water really mint-y flavored. I had much better success with just plain baking soda.

 

[Reep]

Someone suggested getting rid of the plastic taste with denture tabs, but that made the water really mint-y flavored. I had much better success with just plain baking soda.

I have also dissolved baking soda in water and swirled it around for a bit. That seemed to help.

 

[cewait]

Baking soda in plastic bottles a few times a year works wonders

 

[Terapin]

Great suggestion(s) re: the baking soda. Thanks!

 

[PRmamiDEdos]

First, stick with your plan. I have to disagree on the "run as many miles as you can" philosophy. I have run an 8:45 mpm marathon following a plan that had me run 3x/week and max weekly mileage of ~35 miles. Running too much may set you up for injury.

Second, do you have any kind of race result at any distance? If so, you can plug that into a race pace estimator (Runners World has one) to calculate an ESTIMATED marathon pace. Then I would do the long run at 45-60 seconds slower. Higdon's novice 2 plan does show one "pace" run, and calls the other ones as easy. I would follow his lead.

For reference (not that my tempo means anything!) I train for a 8:45 mpm marathon pace. And to me, anything over 9:15 is what I would consider easy--but that's just me. It means it's the pace I can run while maintaining a nice steady breath. I use 9:15 for my warmup and cooldown pace (while I'm doing speedwork).

Finally, since you seem to have a decent base, I am going to assume you are not a novice runner. And if you are using your 10 mpm pace based on reason, then don't sell yourself short on setting your race goal. That doesn't mean you have to kill yourself during the race just to meet a goal. My first marathon was Mickey 2010. My race goals were A (most aggressive--but I won't kill myself to get there ) under 4:00, B) 4:15 (most realistic based on training and past performance in 1/2) and C) 4:30 (worst case). I raced as well as I could, factoring in nasty blisters after 16 miles and just sheer fatigue. I finished in 4:09. I gave myself permission during the race to break/walk more and just finish with a smile for the accomplishment.

Anyway, sorry for the long winded post. Hope you can glean even one piece of decent advice from it.

Maura

For anyone that uses Runkeeper, you can connect it to a site called Cleverrun.com. It will look at an average of all your runs and give you estimated times for races. It's pretty cool.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards. Please excuse the typos.

 

[PRmamiDEdos]

For anyone that uses Runkeeper, you can connect it to a site called Cleverrun.com. It will look at an average of all your runs and give you estimated times for races. It's pretty cool.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards. Please excuse the typos.

P.S. Don't laugh, I have short legs and I'm slow, LOL.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards. Please excuse the typos.

 

[kimmiepcft]

P.S. Don't laugh, I have short legs and I'm slow, LOL.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards. Please excuse the typos.

me too!

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

For anyone that uses Runkeeper, you can connect it to a site called Cleverrun.com. It will look at an average of all your runs and give you estimated times for races. It's pretty cool.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards. Please excuse the typos.

Again, you don't want to be using sites like that to predict a marathon until you are running MANY, MANY more miles than 20 a week. Sorry.