OFFICIAL Jan 2011 Half Marathon, Full Marathon, Dopey or Goofy Challenge Thread

[FFigawi]

Yes, we don't mention the "other" Merseyside team They actually have a 5K every year in Liverpool - reds v blues. I ran for the blues (of course, DH would have disowned me otherwise ), the reds won

You mean there's another Merseyside team than the reds? Who knew?

 

[DisneyBoundinDec]

Oh boy am I happy to have found this thread! SO MUCH great info!!
Coach Charles.. will you come up to Maryland and coach me please!!

Hi Kim!

Little intro.. I started running in January after watching yet another season of the biggest loser and thinking if they can run a marathon.. well why can't I!
SO, I decided that I was going to start running and my goal was the Disney 1/2. I mean what better 1/2 to be my first! So, I got my Aunt on board and signed us up!
Since then I have ran 3 - 5K's and will run my first 10K next weekend.. and then officially start the 1/2 marathon training..

Question for the coach.. My longest so far is 5.5 miles.. and I stop about 2-3 times.. usually after about a 20 minute run for about 30-60s... I was going to follow Galloway's training but I have a question for the walk breaks.. based on my pace.. around 11min mile.. it says I should run 3 / walk 1... do I HAVE to do that.. should I do that? does it hurt me to go 20 minutes, walk 1-2??? Am I setting myself up for injury, failure..
and I am sure like the most of us, its the first 2-3 miles that are the hardest.. where I am getting warmed up..
what would your advice be??

Also, I am SO new to all the drills and training.. like when I see 800 X 4 - 1200 X 3 I am so confused.. I THINK I understand it all.. but is there a great article that you can point me to to understand it better?

SO happy to be here and hope to meet some of you in January!!

Oh, I'm staying at POR.

 

[cewait]

Oh boy am I happy to have found this thread! SO MUCH great info!!
Coach Charles.. will you come up to Maryland and coach me please!!

Hi Kim!

Little intro.. I started running in January after watching yet another season of the biggest loser and thinking if they can run a marathon.. well why can't I!
SO, I decided that I was going to start running and my goal was the Disney 1/2. I mean what better 1/2 to be my first! So, I got my Aunt on board and signed us up!
Since then I have ran 3 - 5K's and will run my first 10K next weekend.. and then officially start the 1/2 marathon training..

Question for the coach.. My longest so far is 5.5 miles.. and I stop about 2-3 times.. usually after about a 20 minute run for about 30-60s... I was going to follow Galloway's training but I have a question for the walk breaks.. based on my pace.. around 11min mile.. it says I should run 3 / walk 1... do I HAVE to do that.. should I do that? does it hurt me to go 20 minutes, walk 1-2??? Am I setting myself up for injury, failure..
and I am sure like the most of us, its the first 2-3 miles that are the hardest.. where I am getting warmed up..
what would your advice be??

Also, I am SO new to all the drills and training.. like when I see 800 X 4 - 1200 X 3 I am so confused.. I THINK I understand it all.. but is there a great article that you can point me to to understand it better?

SO happy to be here and hope to meet some of you in January!!

Oh, I'm staying at POR.

First, if the pay is good I can be anywhere. I used to coach for a former Marylander, Coach Troy Jacobsen. Quite an inspiration to me personally

With regard to your questions.. Why not give Galloway a try but modified for from where you are. Pull it back to a 10/1, 9/1 or even a 5/1. Since you are already running about 2 miles continuously why not just pull that back to run a mile /walk a minute? It is by far one of the easiest r/w ratios I know. In a race you just run to the mile marker then walk a minute and then run to the marker…. If you push out too far and walk because you HAVE to walk you are setting yourself up for a possible long day. In real simple terms, the body is trying to convince you to quit. It really does not want to run. One of my favorite quotes from Dr. Sheehan is "It's very hard in the beginning to understand that the whole idea is not to beat the other runners. Eventually you learn that the competition is against the little voice inside you that wants you to quit." If you push out just a little too far before the first walk break, the second walk break is likely to occur much earlier and third even earlier until you may well walk for a mile at some point.

Going back to Coach Troy, he often states that many times you walk out the door to train and your mind and body are not responding. Head out for 15 minutes and then make a decision to bag the run/bike or workout. If you are not into it then your body is trying to tell you it is break day. You are correct; the first miles in a training run can be some of the hardest miles. I find that if I am struggling I will slow up and work my way into the run. There are days when I am not into it so I will walk 5 minutes slowly bringing the pace up to a jog. If you want at that point feel free to stop and stretch the legs out. (I have a park that is conveniently located one mile out and I will stop and stretch out if feeling tight. This little pause gives you time to sort your mind out and allow the body to fully switch from the ATP/Sugar fuel system to a fat burning system. In short, allow the first mile to be slow so you have a chance to warm up. Experience your body in that first mile, feel your feet hit lightly the ground, feel your foot pull back and your ham/glute engage, feel your shoulders relax, your neck relax and your head feel held high. Feel the little string pulling your breast bone up and forward with just a little forward lean. And finally feel that nice refreshing full belly breath.

The speed work nomenclature looks confusing but is really simply. 800x4 is simply 800 meter (half mile) sprints, repeated 4 times. There are various schools of thought on how to run the repeats. The more novice approach is to run 800 meters, jog/walk 800 then repeat. The more advanced is to run 800, jog 400, and repeat. The half distance allows less recovery time so the body actually derives the fast run benefit even during the jog. If the recovery between intervals is too long then the latent benefit during the jog is diminished. Your goal in interval training is to run at an intensity that is very hard and where you could not say more than 2-3 words per breath. Also, you would like for each interval to be run in about the same time.

Note that as a first time runner, I am not a big speed work fan. I believe that a new runner should focus on form and distance as much as anything.

I need to get back with you on a few links. My favorites section seems to have dropped the articles I was trying to point to .

 

[kim3339]

Hello Miss Leigh!!

 

[Belle1811]

You mean there's another Merseyside team than the reds? Who knew?

Ouch!!!

 

[KAA1972]

No offense, but I hope that rumor isn't true. Strollers posses a serious danger to people racing.

Actually, the strollers are required to line up behind all the other runners at the start. My hubby did the Royal Family 5K last year (stroller division) and it wasn't an issue as they were all behind the other runners. Also, the path is really wide for the 5K so there is plenty of room to pass.

I think the Royal Family 5K also did not have any awards for divisions -- it was more of a 'fun run'.

 

[cewait]

Actually, the strollers are required to line up behind all the other runners at the start. My hubby did the Royal Family 5K last year (stroller division) and it wasn't an issue as they were all behind the other runners. Also, the path is really wide for the 5K so there is plenty of room to pass.

I think the Royal Family 5K also did not have any awards for divisions -- it was more of a 'fun run'.

I am a take it or leave it person when it comes to strollers and pets in 5 and 10k's I think if the RD is doing THEIR job the strollers and pet will be out of the serious runner's way. Frankly, if you are running with a stroller or pet you are not going to push hard enough to put your partner in harms way.

 

[DisneyBoundinDec]

First, if the pay is good I can be anywhere. I used to coach for a former Marylander, Coach Troy Jacobsen. Quite an inspiration to me personally

With regard to your questions.. Why not give Galloway a try but modified for from where you are. Pull it back to a 10/1, 9/1 or even a 5/1. Since you are already running about 2 miles continuously why not just pull that back to run a mile /walk a minute? It is by far one of the easiest r/w ratios I know. In a race you just run to the mile marker then walk a minute and then run to the marker…. If you push out too far and walk because you HAVE to walk you are setting yourself up for a possible long day. In real simple terms, the body is trying to convince you to quit. It really does not want to run. One of my favorite quotes from Dr. Sheehan is "It's very hard in the beginning to understand that the whole idea is not to beat the other runners. Eventually you learn that the competition is against the little voice inside you that wants you to quit." If you push out just a little too far before the first walk break, the second walk break is likely to occur much earlier and third even earlier until you may well walk for a mile at some point.

Going back to Coach Troy, he often states that many times you walk out the door to train and your mind and body are not responding. Head out for 15 minutes and then make a decision to bag the run/bike or workout. If you are not into it then your body is trying to tell you it is break day. You are correct; the first miles in a training run can be some of the hardest miles. I find that if I am struggling I will slow up and work my way into the run. There are days when I am not into it so I will walk 5 minutes slowly bringing the pace up to a jog. If you want at that point feel free to stop and stretch the legs out. (I have a park that is conveniently located one mile out and I will stop and stretch out if feeling tight. This little pause gives you time to sort your mind out and allow the body to fully switch from the ATP/Sugar fuel system to a fat burning system. In short, allow the first mile to be slow so you have a chance to warm up. Experience your body in that first mile, feel your feet hit lightly the ground, feel your foot pull back and your ham/glute engage, feel your shoulders relax, your neck relax and your head feel held high. Feel the little string pulling your breast bone up and forward with just a little forward lean. And finally feel that nice refreshing full belly breath.

The speed work nomenclature looks confusing but is really simply. 800x4 is simply 800 meter (half mile) sprints, repeated 4 times. There are various schools of thought on how to run the repeats. The more novice approach is to run 800 meters, jog/walk 800 then repeat. The more advanced is to run 800, jog 400, and repeat. The half distance allows less recovery time so the body actually derives the fast run benefit even during the jog. If the recovery between intervals is too long then the latent benefit during the jog is diminished. Your goal in interval training is to run at an intensity that is very hard and where you could not say more than 2-3 words per breath. Also, you would like for each interval to be run in about the same time.

Note that as a first time runner, I am not a big speed work fan. I believe that a new runner should focus on form and distance as much as anything.

I need to get back with you on a few links. My favorites section seems to have dropped the articles I was trying to point to .

Thank you!

SO I went out and ran 5.5 miles today and took your advice and stopped every mile for a minute.. and it went well! My overall pace was 30s faster than my last 5.0 mile run..
I can tell you what.. those small breaks make a world of difference.. when I ran the 5 miles last weekend with about 2-3 breaks my splits were
11:19, 11:52, 12:56, 12:17, 11:52, this time with the 1 min breaks were 11:32, 11:29, 11:37, 11:41, 11:40, I could definitely see the difference towards the end of the run.. I felt better, stronger, and felt like I could go longer. (but I didn't)
NOW.. here is my issue.. and I know this is a mind thing.. and in no way means to disrespect anyone!! I know this is just me.. but I feel like.. um.. a .. loser if I have to stop.. and I KNOW I SHOULDN'T... heck I just ran 5.5 miles.. FASTER than I did when I was trying to push myself without stopping so WHY do I feel like I failed myself by stopping so much.. will I ever get over that feeling.. please tell me I am not the only one!!!!

 

[JerseyMamaBear]

Hi everyone,,,
While I am far from a newbie when it comes to Disney, I am when it come to races. I have never done a 5k before in my life but this January I am officially enrolled! I started training this week and cant wait to try it out!

 

[cewait]

Thank you!

SO I went out and ran 5.5 miles today and took your advice and stopped every mile for a minute.. and it went well! My overall pace was 30s faster than my last 5.0 mile run..
I can tell you what.. those small breaks make a world of difference.. when I ran the 5 miles last weekend with about 2-3 breaks my splits were
11:19, 11:52, 12:56, 12:17, 11:52, this time with the 1 min breaks were 11:32, 11:29, 11:37, 11:41, 11:40, I could definitely see the difference towards the end of the run.. I felt better, stronger, and felt like I could go longer. (but I didn't)
NOW.. here is my issue.. and I know this is a mind thing.. and in no way means to disrespect anyone!! I know this is just me.. but I feel like.. um.. a .. loser if I have to stop.. and I KNOW I SHOULDN'T... heck I just ran 5.5 miles.. FASTER than I did when I was trying to push myself without stopping so WHY do I feel like I failed myself by stopping so much.. will I ever get over that feeling.. please tell me I am not the only one!!!!

This is probably not the board to discuss feeling like (changing your words) cheating if you run/walk. I think once you are in the race you will find many folks in the 11 minute range actually run/walk.

Note that while you train in a R/W mode it is not out of the question to think you can run the entire half or just walk the aid stations. You are obviously running in the 10:15-10:45 pace range on your runs. On race day, if you can corral yourself and run in the lower 11's you may well be able to extend all the way through the end. Though for a first time halfer, I would encourage you in the first race to stay with your training regime. You really do not want to try something new on race day. One of the new experiences will be aid stations and ensuring you get more drink in than on you (or up your nose). Not wnating to sound contradictory, you could run continuously from MK through the finish if you felt the need giving your self a great negative split.

Hang in there. Your splits are great looking and you should be proud of putting them into a smaller range of times. A great race is one where your first and last mile splits are the same as all the splits in between.... or if different, the later splits are quicker

 

[DisneyBoundinDec]

thanks Coach... and I in no means meant any disrespect about walking.. because I actually like my time when I do!
I think I will stick with the R/W all the way up to the 1/2. For one.. I am not using this as any type of PR run.. its a fun 1st 1/2 for me.. with many stops along the way to take pictures!
I will proceed with the run 1m / w 1 minute as I think its the best for me on my long runs..
question.. do you suggest the same during the week for my 30-40 minute runs? I saw that Galloway says if you can, there is no need to walk.. but why not if that is what you are doing on the long runs?


oh.. and I do feel good.. because I actually ran 5.5 miles in 1:03 compared to the 5.0 miles in 1:00 last week... so by stopping.. and taking that break I was able to go the 1/2 mile more in only 3 minutes.. its impressive what that little walk break will do..

Thanks again coach.. you rock!

Hi everyone else!! Hope everyone had a great weekend and is on track with training!

Welcome Jerseymamabear :wave good luck with your training!!

 

[cewait]

If possible do not walk the mid week runs. I think that is a subtle downfall in the Gallowat plan that many folks simply do not see.

 

[verticalchaos]

If possible do not walk the mid week runs. I think that is a subtle downfall in the Gallowat plan that many folks simply do not see.

What if you're training with a run/walk plan such as the Bingham/Hadfield plan? Should you still not walk?

 

[cewait]

What if you're training with a run/walk plan such as the Bingham/Hadfield plan? Should you still not walk?

I have not looked at their plan recently. If you are running for a time or distance and it is less than an hour I would strive to work to a constant run. Strive is the key word here. Obviously if it is more advanced than you are capable of running then by all means regress to something closer to their plan. I am unsure of the intensity of John and Jan’s midweek work but it should be more intense that the long runs. If you are currently at a 3/2 or 4/1 interval just start/try pushing the weekday runs out to a point where you may go from 3/2 ->3/1 -> 4/1 -> 5/1 and so on up to continuous. Only push out one midweek run and keep the second the same. Then the following week make all at the pushed out level. Advance at your capability.

If you are running hills and intervals then this could be a different story. I do not think they subscribe to interval/hill work in the run/walk program but I am not sure. If they do or you are looking at them, then a slight walk after a 3 minute hard intensity run can be in order. But you would want to pick back up to a jog after a few seconds to a moment.

I only offer this as opinion on a way to step up the training for a first time marathon experience. With everything, it will only work and help if you listen to your body and do not enter into the dark zone of pushing through pain. Tired and sore are OK and you will be tired as you push out towards a continuous 30 minute run. The benefit of working a little harder in this fashion is that:
1) You are gaining aerobic and physical strength by trying to push to a continuous mid-week run
2) We are not stressing to the point that a more advanced runner would need to make these gains but we are ensuring that we are pushing harder than a long run
3) You gain a level of confidence in you and your ability know that you are capable of running longer intervals than you will need in the marathon.

I hope this helps a little. Again, do not feel as though you must do this, but if you can then give it some consideration. I know that I am not 100% aligned with their plan but they are only looking to get you into a marathon with a conservative one-way form of communication.

 

[rubato]

Hi everyone. I've been lurking while trying to decide if I want to do the Goofy this January. Now, I've decided, but am trying to talk hubby into going to Disney yet again.

I have lots of questions, and this looked like the place to get some very qualified answers.
1. Does anyone know why the cost of Goofy is so much more? I can enter each race for $135 for a total of $270, but to enter Goofy it's $310. I don't understand what you get for your extra $40 except for an extra medal.
2. If I've never run more than a half, is it really feasible to think I can run a half and then, walk a marathon the next day? I was barely able to walk after my last half. I can't imagine trying to walk 26.2 miles. I really want to push myself in the half for a good time, so I don't know if that plays a factor.
3. How far up in corrals do you all think I can get with a 1:46 half qualifier?
4. Where do I find the list of on property hotels that have transportation to the races? If I'm going through the link on the marathon page that takes me to the vacation pkg, are they only listing hotels that have marathon buses?

I'm sure I will have more questions, but it's 2 am, and I'm half asleep! Thanks everyone.

 

[cewait]

Hi everyone. I've been lurking while trying to decide if I want to do the Goofy this January. Now, I've decided, but am trying to talk hubby into going to Disney yet again.

I have lots of questions, and this looked like the place to get some very qualified answers.
1. Does anyone know why the cost of Goofy is so much more? I can enter each race for $135 for a total of $270, but to enter Goofy it's $310. I don't understand what you get for your extra $40 except for an extra medal.

The $40 gives you another shirt (three total) plus the medal.

2. If I've never run more than a half, is it really feasible to think I can run a half and then, walk a marathon the next day? I was barely able to walk after my last half. I can't imagine trying to walk 26.2 miles. I really want to push myself in the half for a good time, so I don't know if that plays a factor.

Why walk? In all honesty you will have enough miles under your belt to run/jog both. To think you are going to walk 26 miles without training for a WALK sets you up for a long day. The real question here is have you started training for the full yet? If not then you may be stretching the realm of sanity. Not saying that it cannot be done but I would seriously question the likelihood of getting proper mileage for a Goofy if you have not started. It is already a stretch in many folk’s minds to run Goofy without running a full first. The last few miles of a full are much different than the first miles and the point where that occurs happens so much earlier in the full during the Goofy.
As far as running a decent half then surviving the full that is the way many run the Goofy. You only run one race on fresh legs and that is the half. The secret here is to not lay and nap Saturday afternoon, but to get up and walk around casually post race.

3. How far up in corrals do you all think I can get with a 1:46 half qualifier?

First wave first corral in the half. A or B corral in the full

4. Where do I find the list of on property hotels that have transportation to the races? If I'm going through the link on the marathon page that takes me to the vacation pkg, are they only listing hotels that have marathon buses?

I'm sure I will have more questions, but it's 2 am, and I'm half asleep! Thanks everyone.

ALL resorts offer transportation to the race in January. Take your pick. I would book through central reservations and not through sports reservations

 

[verticalchaos]

I have not looked at their plan recently. If you are running for a time or distance and it is less than an hour I would strive to work to a constant run. Strive is the key word here. Obviously if it is more advanced than you are capable of running then by all means regress to something closer to their plan. I am unsure of the intensity of John and Jan’s midweek work but it should be more intense that the long runs. If you are currently at a 3/2 or 4/1 interval just start/try pushing the weekday runs out to a point where you may go from 3/2 ->3/1 -> 4/1 -> 5/1 and so on up to continuous. Only push out one midweek run and keep the second the same. Then the following week make all at the pushed out level. Advance at your capability.

If you are running hills and intervals then this could be a different story. I do not think they subscribe to interval/hill work in the run/walk program but I am not sure. If they do or you are looking at them, then a slight walk after a 3 minute hard intensity run can be in order. But you would want to pick back up to a jog after a few seconds to a moment.

I only offer this as opinion on a way to step up the training for a first time marathon experience. With everything, it will only work and help if you listen to your body and do not enter into the dark zone of pushing through pain. Tired and sore are OK and you will be tired as you push out towards a continuous 30 minute run. The benefit of working a little harder in this fashion is that:
1) You are gaining aerobic and physical strength by trying to push to a continuous mid-week run
2) We are not stressing to the point that a more advanced runner would need to make these gains but we are ensuring that we are pushing harder than a long run
3) You gain a level of confidence in you and your ability know that you are capable of running longer intervals than you will need in the marathon.

I hope this helps a little. Again, do not feel as though you must do this, but if you can then give it some consideration. I know that I am not 100% aligned with their plan but they are only looking to get you into a marathon with a conservative one-way form of communication.

Cool, thanks! I'll give it a shot and see how it goes!

 

[rubato]

Thanks Coach. I knew you'd have all my answers!

I just didn't think I'd be able to run the full. But, maybe if I run the half and do the run/walk for the full, I could manage. I'm training right now, but am only at 8 miles for my long run so far. I did walk 13.1 two weeks ago with a 15 minute per mile pace. I am hoping there's enough time to train properly. I need to sit down today with the calendar and figure it all out. I know it's stupid (my word, not yours) to want to do the Goofy when I haven't even done a full, but I'm a highly motivated person when I have a goal. I turned 40 this year and have been upping my goals since. What extra training requirements would I have with Goofy? Should I tweek the training for a full by doing a long run on Saturday with a longer walk/run on Sunday and then, taking Monday off instead of a short run? For my half, I did a short on Mon, Tues. off, medium on Wed, short on Thurs, Fri off, and long run on Sat with Sun off. I never ran more than 12 in that training plan and it was a 10 weeker.

Thanks again for your advice.

 

[cewait]

Thanks Coach. I knew you'd have all my answers!

I just didn't think I'd be able to run the full. But, maybe if I run the half and do the run/walk for the full, I could manage. I'm training right now, but am only at 8 miles for my long run so far. I did walk 13.1 two weeks ago with a 15 minute per mile pace. I am hoping there's enough time to train properly. I need to sit down today with the calendar and figure it all out. I know it's stupid (my word, not yours) to want to do the Goofy when I haven't even done a full, but I'm a highly motivated person when I have a goal. I turned 40 this year and have been upping my goals since. What extra training requirements would I have with Goofy? Should I tweek the training for a full by doing a long run on Saturday with a longer walk/run on Sunday and then, taking Monday off instead of a short run? For my half, I did a short on Mon, Tues. off, medium on Wed, short on Thurs, Fri off, and long run on Sat with Sun off. I never ran more than 12 in that training plan and it was a 10 weeker.

Thanks again for your advice.

I am not a fan of a lot of back to back runs. Making the longer run every weekend on tired legs sets many folks up for injury. I am OK with 2-3 long back to abck runs just to get the feel. Find a plan that works for you and your lifestyle and then just plug into the plan. You are not too far, if any, behind the curve. I would try to run at least 20 if not 22-23 as a longest run. You will face the bite me zone a little earlier than a pure marathoner so be prepared for that.

I would still look at run/walking the full. Run/walk is better than a walk when you are running in your training. (I am not throwing stones at walkers here but making a point that if one is run capable they should run). You may want to run/jog a mile or half mile then walk a minute and repeat through the race. I think you will be more satisfied given your capabilities.

And I would never say dumb idea. I ran part of the marathon in 08 with a person who ran their first half ever the day before. Now running your first half and full in the same weekend may not be all that smart. It can be done by anyone with the determination to get to the finish.

I think you will do well, you seem to be committed and have thought a lot of the race out. You may hate my support come Monday Jan 10, but you will also get past that once you start wobbling through the park Monday

 

[bunnyfoo]

I just didn't think I'd be able to run the full. But, maybe if I run the half and do the run/walk for the full, I could manage.

Yay! So glad you're in for marathon weekend!! Can't give you advice on the Goofy but if you'd like a run/walk partner for the full, let me know. I will likely be doing 10/1 intervals. You know I'm not going to be that fast anyway