Official 2016 Star Wars Half Marthon - The Dark Side Weekend

[PrincessV]

Am I okay at the AKL? I was at W&D and booked a bounceback. I thought it was relatively close to WWOS where I understand this will end up. However, I was on another thread, and folks on that thread indicated that AKL was a disaster on marathon weekend because of all the road closures. I assume I will be running into some of that at AKL. What are people's thoughts on staying at AKL? I was really wanting to be close to WWOS, and the discount on the mods for bounceback wasn't as great as before, so I splurged with AKL.

I've stayed at AKL and CSR (same area) for multiple race weekends and have never had any issues. As with all resorts, the earlier you get out to a race bus, or drive out in your car, the better if you want to avoid potential delays. For a half, the roads aren't closed for very long, so it really shouldn't be an issue so long as you leave your resort within the window Disney provides for race transportation.

 

[opusone]

@DopeyBadger, thank you again for your thorough response (as always)!

However, I do think based on your experience the half marathon book would be sufficient to develop a plan. If you ever do plan on running a marathon again, then you'll be so close to the beginner marathon plan that buying the marathon book would be better. Wishy-washy answer but based on your experience what you'll get out of the book comes from the first couple chapters.

I think I will start by reading the half marathon book. I'm not sure I plan on running another marathon; however, I must admit, attempting Dopey does have me slightly interested. I think the half is a great endurance distance: much easier to find the time to train and doesn't beat up the body as much (especially at 46 years old).

What I find interesting about your times, is they suggest you have a lot of speed. But that your 5K and 10K, don't match with your 15K and Half (granted not all out effort/hilly). This suggests that what is missing from your previous plans was maximizing your endurance training. You would be an ideal candidate for a 6-day plan, and you'll probably make about a 5-10% improvement on your time based on how you react to the plan. This would put your half around 1:40 best case scenario.

I have noticed this as well. When I was younger, I think I better matched the predicted times with the various running calculators. I think my older body self doesn't seem to agree with these calculators, but I also think that training differently for the longer distances will likely make a difference. In the past, I have used a modified Hal Higdon plan (modified to include Dr. Jack Daniels' threshold, VO2 max, rep workouts) for half marathon and marathon plans, but I feel that there are some downsides to these plans, many of which are points that you mentioned: mainly, barely any miles at/near planned pace (Dr. Jack Daniels), oftentimes too many weekly miles at speed (threshold, VO2 max & reps), and long runs that are a high % of weekly mileage.

When developing your plan keep these things in mind:

1) Keep your hard running and easy running at a ratio of 20/80. The calculation of these should be done based on time not on mileage. Easy running is defined as Long Run and slower. This ratio can fluctuate from 20/80 and especially as you get closer to the race it probably will move closer to 30/70 (hard/easy).
2) Maintain your longest run of the week as no more than 25-33% of your weekly cumulative mileage.
3) Use the specialization technique developed by Arthur Lydiard. In the beginning of the plan, work Speed and slow. As the race gets closer and closer, do more work at half-marathon pace to internalize this pace (but don't violate rule 1).
4) The ideal range for half-marathon training is to continuously do workouts in the 60-90 minute range. All workouts in this range (less than 90 minutes) should be done without any supplementation other than water. The workouts that extend beyond 90 minutes should be done with whatever supplementation plan you plan on following for the half race.
5) All workouts should be finished with chocolate milk, or a commercial recovery endurance shake. This will help replenish your glycogen and accelerate recovery between workouts.
6) The paces described are hard and must not be deviated from (within 10 seconds +/-). This ensures you receive the correct benefits from the workouts. This is especially important for you as the endurance zone for you is 9:06-10:48 min/mile and where you need the most work to see great improvements. This may seem slow at first, but let it be, and slowly you'll come to appreciate them.

I think the above "rules" are exactly why I am looking for a different plan. To your last point, I actually am pretty good at keeping to the prescribed paces, so I have no problems keeping most long runs in the endurance zone.

I'd be happy to offer advice on your plan after you finish it if you'd like. Let me know if this answers all of your questions.

Let me read the half marathon book over the next week or so, and then develop my plan, but I may take you up on looking the plan over once I have it on paper (or most likely in a spreadsheet). Thanks again for helping me with the path forward!!

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger, thank you again for your thorough response (as always)!

I have noticed this as well. When I was younger, I think I better matched the predicted times with the various running calculators. I think my older body self doesn't seem to agree with these calculators, but I also think that training differently for the longer distances will likely make a difference. In the past, I have used a modified Hal Higdon plan (modified to include Dr. Jack Daniels' threshold, VO2 max, rep workouts) for half marathon and marathon plans, but I feel that there are some downsides to these plans, many of which are points that you mentioned: mainly, barely any miles at/near planned pace (Dr. Jack Daniels), oftentimes too many weekly miles at speed (threshold, VO2 max & reps), and long runs that are a high % of weekly mileage.

I have a feeling based on the above that if you stick with the Hansons plan (or one based on similar philosophies) that you are going to see enormous gains.

Try using this calculator
http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/vo2max-calculator.aspx to get an estimated VO2max (or from a Garmin). It would be interesting to hear what your estimate is given your race times. This would allow us to find your max potential.

Oh, and I'll always recommend the Dopey Challenge! For me, I enjoy running all four different race types because each are a different kind of running style.

 

[flvy]

@DopeyBadger its awesome to have someone with so much knowledge that doesn't mind sharing it! This is what I love about the running community. In general it is so supportive and amazingly helpful.

 

[opusone]

Try using this calculator
http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/vo2max-calculator.aspx to get an estimated VO2max (or from a Garmin). It would be interesting to hear what your estimate is given your race times. This would allow us to find your max potential.

Well, using the specific calculators in your link (both the resting HR-based and 1.5 mi run-based), my estimated VO2 max is 50 ml/kg/min; however, using the various VO2 max calculators out there, I see a very wide range from 43-55 ml/kg/min, so I definitely question the accuracy of any of these calculations.

When I use the VO2 max calculators that just use my recent race times, they tend to estimate in the lower range (43-45 ml/kg/min), but when I use the HR-based or a combination of weight, HR, and possibly a short run-based calculators, they tend toward the upper end of 50-55 ml/kg/min.

Unfortunately, my Garmin watch (Forerunner 225) does not provide an estimated VO2 max, but again, I'm not sure of the accuracy of the Garmin calculation either.

This vast difference of VO2 max estimates is precisely why I have always gone with the running calculators to determine what I should be able to accomplish at other distances.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Well, using the specific calculators in your link (both the resting HR-based and 1.5 mi run-based), my estimated VO2 max is 50 ml/kg/min; however, using the various VO2 max calculators out there, I see a very wide range from 43-55 ml/kg/min, so I definitely question the accuracy of any of these calculations.

When I use the VO2 max calculators that just use my recent race times, they tend to estimate in the lower range (43-45 ml/kg/min), but when I use the HR-based or a combination of weight, HR, and possibly a short run-based calculators, they tend toward the upper end of 50-55 ml/kg/min.

Unfortunately, my Garmin watch (Forerunner 225) does not provide an estimated VO2 max, but again, I'm not sure of the accuracy of the Garmin calculation either.

This vast difference of VO2 max estimates is precisely why I have always gone with the running calculators to determine what I should be able to accomplish at other distances.

A key importance to the resting HR used in the linked calculator is that it should come in the morning before getting out of bed. In case you didn't already do it this way, wake up for about 2 minutes but don't move. Then count your HR for 60 seconds while still laying still and breathing normally. See how this resting HR matches the one you used previously.

The Garmin has been shown to have a very accurate relationship between it and the lab test. The problem people start to run into is the "race predictor" output. These times are the ABSOLUTE best times capable based on your current VO2max score. The marathon for instance gives an output of 85% VO2max as the speed, but only elites can maintain that relative velocity for a marathon. Most of us mortals are closer to 60-70%. That's why you barely ever see anyone match their race predictor times. And the few people you do see meet them are either elite, or have other information incorrect in their Garmin profile (resting/max HR).

In my experience, the Garmin, heart rate calculator and running test have all been very close. In fact for me, they are all the same right now, 54. However, prior to Hansons my score was a 50 on all three tests. My resting HR lowered, and my Garmin VO2max raised.

I'm not surprised that the racing calculator would be in the lower range given what I feel like is a possible big improvement in your endurance. I look at it this way. The one based on physical characteristics is what I'm capable of, whereas the ones based on race performances are what I've accomplished.

 

[HockeyMomNH]

I am really facinated by the recent running discussion going on here. I started running about a year and a half ago at age 40 something. I have never been very athletic or done anything like this before. So far I have been just listening to my body and not following much of a training plan after finishing a Cto5k and 5Kto10K programs. I've been running three days a week with some interval training, and I have met with an athletic trainer to do some strength training to supliment my running. Now that I have gotten to the point where I have some half marathons under my belt, I would like to take my training to the next level, but I'm not sure where to begin.

I read the post about the half marathon training book, are there any other books/resourses that you guys would recommend?

 

[DopeyBadger]

I am really facinated by the recent running discussion going on here. I started running about a year and a half ago at age 40 something. I have never been very athletic or done anything like this before. So far I have been just listening to my body and not following much of a training plan after finishing a Cto5k and 5Kto10K programs. I've been running three days a week with some interval training, and I have met with an athletic trainer to do some strength training to supliment my running. Now that I have gotten to the point where I have some half marathons under my belt, I would like to take my training to the next level, but I'm not sure where to begin.

I read the post about the half marathon training book, are there any other books/resourses that you guys would recommend?

I highly recommend http://runnersconnect.net/blog/. The entries there are scientifically based and sourced. They lay out their information very well. I am also partial to them because they used to be Hansons followers but have added a different spin to their plans. The key to taking your training to the next level is to follow many of the suggestions I laid out previously with opusone as well as the ones I linked from my discussion in the marathon thread. My training philosophies are based in scientific research and less off popular literature. I wholeheartedly believe that no single cookie-cutter plan is best for everyone. The best is to create a custom plan based on personal strengths, weaknesses, goals, and common running philosophies.

BTW, those Disney Cakes are ridiculously awesome!

 

[opusone]

I read the post about the half marathon training book, are there any other books/resourses that you guys would recommend?

Dr. Jack Daniels was the first to seriously study the physiology of running and the first to develop the "every-training-run-should-have-a-purpose" philosophy. I highly recommend reading his book if you are interested in the scientific reasons why you train at different paces. It will make you a believer in always hitting your paces properly.

Daniels' Running Formula (http://amzn.com/1450431836)

 

[DopeyBadger]

Dr. Jack Daniels was the first to seriously study the physiology of running and the first to develop the "every-training-run-should-have-a-purpose" philosophy. I highly recommend reading his book if you are interested in the scientific reasons why you train at different paces. It will make you a believer in always hitting your paces properly.

Daniels' Running Formula (http://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-3rd-Jack/dp/1450431836/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447696316&sr=8-1&keywords=jack+daniels+running&pebp=1447696318994&perid=1GBGJH39CCNGB355EF39)

Also enjoyed this book!

 

[HockeyMomNH]

Thank you both. I'm looking forward to doing some research on my new running obsession!

 

[AThrillingChase]

Has anyone been able to get any kind of discount on rooms from RunDisney for this race? When I called she would only give me room rate and said something about their computers. But even with marathon weekend they give some sort of discount...

 

[suffieldhockeymom]

Has anyone been able to get any kind of discount on rooms from RunDisney for this race? When I called she would only give me room rate and said something about their computers. But even with marathon weekend they give some sort of discount...

There are no discounts. I booked through an agency exclusive offer from my TA.

 

[AThrillingChase]

There are no discounts. I booked through an agency exclusive offer from my TA.

Sigh. Figures. It usually isn't some great discount, but if I book with RD it is still considered a package even though it is room only (only way for me as an AP holder) for Disney Visa special financing purposes. They gave me a decent rate for Marathon Weekend, but I guess they gave up on this one!

 

[HockeyMomNH]

Sigh. Figures. It usually isn't some great discount, but if I book with RD it is still considered a package even though it is room only (only way for me as an AP holder) for Disney Visa special financing purposes. They gave me a decent rate for Marathon Weekend, but I guess they gave up on this one!

Last year I ended up getting a pretty good AP discount for princess weekend. I'm hoping that maybe they will release some for this time frame too. I've currently got a room only booked at AllStars.

 

[flvy]

That's weird. I though the whole reason for booking through runDisney was to get discounts on the rooms. I guess I'll stick to planning this trip on their site and taking the discount they offer there.

 

[NileNellie]

Yeah I was also kinda bummed to see no room discounts. I suppose since it's in April they really have no problem filling the rooms so no incentive to offer one.

 

[suffieldhockeymom]

I was disappointed as well with the lack of discounts for rooms and tickets. The Wine and Dine tickets discounted so much.

 

[camaker]

For all those disappointed by the lack of women's Star Wars options, Under Armour has added women's and girls' options:

https://www.underarmour.com/en-us/a...s|&gclid=CPHHxYaToskCFdamNwodX1kBgw&gclsrc=ds

 

[DarkSideRunner]

I totally agree! I was so excited to see the 501st Legion in January. Was definitely starting to feel fatigued and they gave me the energy I needed to finish. Hope they'll somehow be granted access to the course.

Responding to this a little late, but did you see the real Obi-Wan Kenobi? He was totally there