Off Topic - ACL Tear in Dogs - UPDATE see post #12

[Amy]

I'm also going to post this on the Community Board, but I hang out here a lot more (well, I used to before life got in the way) and I feel like I "know" you guys better. And I also know there are a lot of dog parents on this board (like Linda and Ann).

My furry baby, Charlie, has been diagnosed with a torn ACL in his left rear leg. He's a 70-lb lab mix, about 8 or 9 years old (got him from the Animal Rescue League). Took him to the vet this morning - initially, they were going to do some x-rays to see what's going on, but after observing him limping and a thorough exam, the vet is 99.9% certain it's a torn ACL. Our vet is referring us to an orthopedic surgeon, and our vet called the surgeon who said they'd do their own x-rays anyway, so no x-rays this morning.

Our vet said there were 2 types of ACL surgery: one where they use a fishing line-type of thread to stitch the ACL back together, and another one called TTPL(?) where they go in and cut away some of the bone and re-align the joint. The TTPL sounds REALLY painful, but he said for large dogs like Charlie it's usually the one with the higher success rate. I've done some quick checking on the internet, and most of what I read agrees with our vet.

I'll know more after talking with the surgeon later this afternoon, but I thought I'd ask here to see if any of you have had this happen to your dogs and what your experiences were like. I have a feeling it'll be a long recovery, keeping Charlie quiet and not jumping on the bed. But he's got a lot of years left and we want them to be healthy ones. And the longer he goes on limping, the more stress he's putting on his good leg.

Thanks!

 

[Gianna'sPapa]

We had a four year old Cairn Terrier suffer the same injury. I don't remember the exact repair that was done. Because she was a small dog, I think it was the sewn repair. The surgery was successful and she had another nine good years. As I recall, the recovery was uneventful, but she was a small dog so getting her in and out was really not an issue.

 

[annnewjerz]

Amy---I'm off today and on my phone so this will be short but email me tomorrow at work about this. Our lab had surgery for a torn ACL this summer and he is doing great! I'd be happy to tell you what we did, how much we paid or answer any questions.

 

[ChiSoxKeith]

My boss has a 3 year old yellow lab. Tore the ACL on both the left and right rear legs. They did the procedure where they stitch it with a syntehtic material. That was 6 months ago. There were lots of physical therapy over those six months, but it looked like things were going good.

But they are going back in for another surgergy because (according to the surgeon) the knee keeps dislocating. Doctor's say that's a danger with the type of tear his dog had.

It's been extremely expensive. The double ACL surgery was north of $3500 and they are talking about almost double that for the knee.

I hope that things go well with your dog when you hear from the surgeon later today. We lost two dogs in our family in 2010 and it was gut wrenching.

 

[Amy]

Just back from the surgeon - everything's scheduled for this Thursday! Scary! Of course, just like human surgery, they have to tell you every possible thing that can go wrong........

We had a four year old Cairn Terrier suffer the same injury. I don't remember the exact repair that was done. Because she was a small dog, I think it was the sewn repair. The surgery was successful and she had another nine good years. As I recall, the recovery was uneventful, but she was a small dog so getting her in and out was really not an issue.

Yes, for small dogs (under 30 lbs) they recommend the sewn repair. For large dogs (St. Bernard large), the TPLO is recommended. Of course, Charlie is in the middle, so he could go either way. But we're going with the TPLO - faster recovery, and it sounds like it's sturdier for heavier dogs.

Amy---I'm off today and on my phone so this will be short but email me tomorrow at work about this. Our lab had surgery for a torn ACL this summer and he is doing great! I'd be happy to tell you what we did, how much we paid or answer any questions.

You'll be hearing from me tomorrow Ann! I esp. want to know any tricks you found helpful during the recovery period. The surgeon said 2 months of reduced activity and no jumping on the bed and couch. The stairs won't be a problem - we still using our 21-yr-old baby gate when our boys have their friends over and we want to keep Charlie away from their food, etc.

My boss has a 3 year old yellow lab. Tore the ACL on both the left and right rear legs. They did the procedure where they stitch it with a syntehtic material. That was 6 months ago. There were lots of physical therapy over those six months, but it looked like things were going good.

But they are going back in for another surgergy because (according to the surgeon) the knee keeps dislocating. Doctor's say that's a danger with the type of tear his dog had.

It's been extremely expensive. The double ACL surgery was north of $3500 and they are talking about almost double that for the knee.

I hope that things go well with your dog when you hear from the surgeon later today. We lost two dogs in our family in 2010 and it was gut wrenching.

Ouch! Both legs at the same time?! I hope your boss's dog will be ok after this latest surgery. Yep, it's not cheap, is it? And of course, we never got around to buying pet insurance. Oh well.

Sorry for your loss - 2 dogs in one year. It was kind of weird taking Charlie to the surgeon - the surgeon is at the same place where we took our other dog Sheba about 2 years ago when we found out she had cancer, and she died about 2 weeks after that. But that was cancer, and this is an ACL tear and Charlie will be just fine.

 

[AndrewWG]

Amy,

I hope that all goes well with Charlie! I have no advice. I haven't had a dog in years. I love them though and hope to have another one someday when I have more time to spend with them.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Hi Amy. I saw your post on the CB but unfortunately I don't have a lot to offer. The best thing I can say is not to rush into anything, especially if you don't yet have a definitive diagnosis. Friends of ours had this happen and they were all set to go for surgery. I helped them research it at the time. But in the interim, a family member of theirs was diagnosed with a devastating illness so things kind of slowed down a bit with the dog situation for a while. And during that time, he stopped limping. Even the orthopod was surprised and suggested they take a wait and see approach, which they did, and the dog never needed the surgery. We've had our share of limping and other orthopedic issues over the years, especially with our dog who did frisbee, but an ACL tear is not something we've yet come across. (Give us time. )

Good luck, and let us know!

 

[Quicklabs]

I, unfortunately, know a TON about torn ACLs in Labs, having gone through two surgeries with my now 11 year old. Your vet has given you good advice. We had the "fishing line" type done with Augusta, but she weighs only 60 lbs, and I knew I wouldn't be returning her to high intensity agility activities. Most Lab owners have the TPLO done because of the size of their dogs or their wish to return to dog sports.

The most important thing is the skill of the surgeon and the quality of your rehab. You must follow those rehab instructions to the letter. I strongly recommend that you use an ex-pen for crating until Charlie is released. That worked perfectly for Augusta, who couldn't be trusted for a second. These dogs do NOT baby themselves and so can find all kinds of ways to try to run and jump when they need to let that bone set.

The physical rehab is important. We began a walking schedule prescribed by our Ortho vet. We also worked with a canine physical therapist. You have to build those muscles back up gradually and consistently. It was a long recovery process, but worth every effort. To this day, Augusta walks two miles a day rain or shine. She is doing great.

I have to say, though, we were absolutely obsessive about her recovery and rehab. My husband and I took most of our vacation time separately to stay home in order to see to her needs.

I'm glad you are having surgery soon. Letting this injury go on too long allows arthritic changes to set in quickly (some studies show within 3 weeks). That second leg has a 50 percent chance of blowing within 2 years no matter what. Tufts University has some studies underway to try to help understand why this is happening to our precious Labradors.

Anyway, p.m. me if you have any questions.
We will be at Disney this week. I'm looking forward to going with my husband this time. Last time, we went separately: someone had to stay home with Augusta when she blew her knee just 9 days before our vacation! But, as you know, there's no sacrifice too great when it comes to our furbabies.

Best wishes for an uneventful surgery and a successful rehab. As I said, p.m. me at anytime!

 

[Amy]

Thanks all for your advice and good wishes!

Quicklabs - I've never heard of an ex-pen; time for Google. For now we're just putting up our old baby gate to keep Charlie away from the stairs and confined to the hallway and computer room (he likes to hang out under my computer desk - I guess that's his "den").

This morning DH let him come into our room so he could hang with me in the bathroom while I got ready for work, and he tried to jump up on our bed. Luckily DH stopped him before he could. Our mattress is one of those pillow-tops, so it's higher than normal. Crazy dog! Even though he's prob. in pain, he thinks of our bed as "his" and still tries to get up there.

 

[Illini Disney Guy]

Our golden retriever tore her ACL last summer. We had the TPLO done and she is doing great. We followed the rehab schedule that the Vet gave us. We were not allowed for her to go up and down stairs for 1 month and just walks for 3 months. No running until it healed. The one good thing the vet said was good for her was swimming. My in laws have a pool that she loves to go in and it is good excersise for the leg. We had to wait till the incision was healed but that was good for her to do.

You do not have to have the surgery and the dog will learn to cope with the Torn ACL but and it is a big but there will be a earlier onset of arthritis in that leg and it will be worse in the long run. That is at least what several vets that we talked to, including 2 ortho, told us before we did the surgery. Arthritis can be very painful in a dog later in life.

T

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I thought of a couple more things to add.

I guess I should have mentioned that one of my dogs died during surgery. It was devastating at the time (and still is, to think about). In retrospect, I was naive putting him through unnecessary surgery in the first place, and I live with the guilt of that. As a result, I now think long and hard about any and all surgical procedures and whether I want to risk that again, even though the risks of death are generally very small. Because of that (and also as a longtime hospital nurse that's seen a lot over the years), my general rule of thumb is to avoid elective surgeries that are not absolutely necessary, whether it's my dog, myself or my family members.

Food for thought, too (and playing devil's advocate), is that, if your dog is 9 yrs old, there are effective ways today of medically managing arthritis if that were to occur. At his size, the laws of averages say he'll probably live to around 11 or 12.

My pediatrician spoke wise words once when we were deciding on whether to have a surgical procedure with my DD or not. She said, "If I send you to a surgeon, they are going to want to do surgery - of course! It's what they do!". Elementary, but true.

Everybody's got to make their own decisions on this given the benefits and risks of both doing and not doing a surgery. It does seem to me like they're doing A LOT of these procedures (and making an awful lot of money on them). Certainly not to criticize anyone that's chosen this route - we all want what's best for our beloved companions. You just have to do your research, look at all angles, and go into it with your eyes wide open. Remember there is nothing wrong with taking a conservative approach.

ETA I don't have a lot of time to research today, but here is a bit of information that outlines some of the risks of the TPLO procedure.

What are the Potential Complications?

Reports of complications following TPLO surgery have been published, however, most of these describe the early case experience at single institutions. The current complication rate for experienced surgeons has not been reported recently but is considered low. Many alterations in the original description of the technique, particularly the emphasis that has been placed on osteotomy position, as well as the newly introduced locking limited contact fixation devices likely have resulted in a reduction in complication rate. Several possible complications include anesthesia related morbidity and mortality, infection, patellar tendonitis/strain, swelling, meniscus cartilage tear post-operative (postliminary), tibial tuberosity fracture, fixation failure, and progression of osteoarthritis.

http://www.yokayovetcenter.org/Pages/tplo_brochure.html

 

[Amy]

Hi all! Charlie had his surgery on Thursday and we brought him home last night. He seems to be doing pretty well - occasionally "toe-touches" the bad leg, but otherwise still is getting around on 3 legs. He's on 2 diff. pain meds plus an antibiotic. What seems to bother him the most (and what he tries to lick the most) is the razor burn on his front paws from where they put the iv; he's only tried licking the incision once or twice. I hope it stays that way! I'm amazed at how much of his hair they shaved off, poor thing. But by the time he's able to go for walks and see his doggie friends, his hair should be growing back and he won't have to be embarassed.

DH and I are taking turns sitting with him, and I slept downstairs with him last night. We're using the e-collar overnight and when we can't watch him. He's not used to spending so much time in the family room, so that's taking some adjusting for him. From the family room, there's only 1 step out into the back yard. But so far, so good! Back for an incision check in 10-14 days, then more x-rays in 2 months to be sure the bone is healing well. Hopefully by summer he'll be good as new!

Thanks so much for all your prayers, advice and good wishes for my furry baby!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Glad things went well, Amy!