Odd sales tactic for inflating offer?

[Yinn]

We purchased resale back in 2015 and addonitis has finally struck. We aren't in a rush at all and are on the hunt for a good/perfect deal for us. We are more thinking ahead a few years to when we will have to travel at higher point times than we do now. So we decided to add on economically by purchasing at SSR.
Anyway, to my question...has anyone ever encountered a broker or brokerage firm where when you make an offer, you are informed that there is a "bidding war" or the sellers are talking to another interested party? I put in two different offers on https://www.dvcresalemarket.com, and the first, I was told there was a bidding war and to submit my best offer for the seller to evaluate by the next morning. I found it a bit odd and wasn't interested at all in getting in a bidding war so I said our offer was our offer. Today, I made a different offer and was told by the same broker that the seller had another interested buyer at X price point. I find it a bit odd and surprising because these are not newly posted contracts, are not at a low inventory resort and not small point contracts. It's left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth for working with this company so I was curious if anyone else has experienced this type of sales tactic or if I'm reading too much into it. Both of these contracts are still listed as available on the site.
I should also mention that the offers I submitted were in line with what similar contracts have been going for. Perhaps on the lower/average side, but with the assumption the seller would counter.

I know they're a site sponsor, but I always found the reps on that site to be a little used car salesman-like. I don't think I've ever gotten a straight answer on an offer I've made. Now maybe it's all true, but it seems like it's always something and more money is needed.

It's also possible they just have much more visibility/traffic than some other sites, or that I'm unreasonable in my offers. But some other brokers haven't had an issue on them and I've been able to get contracts at my price point.

I will say that when I'm ready to sell, they're the first company I'm going to see about listing with.

 

[Jmazzuca243]

LOL, that's funny. Fidelity is the one with whom I had a fantastic experience...as the buyer. If anyone is looking to purchase a resale contract I highly recommend Fidelity. They are more than fair. I submitted my offer and then spoke to their agent. I was notified within an hour that the offer was accepted. It was very smooth. Now I wonder if there were other higher offers for that contract submitted after mine, although I doubt it because of how quickly my offer was accepted.

I think Fidelity is a great company to buy from. Especially if you follow their site and act quickly, you will find a great deal. But their policy is that they will go through offers on an individual basis based on when the offer was first submitted which makes me wonder why any seller would want to list with them.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

I'm glad to hear this. This is who I have an accepted offer with and some of the feedback I read about them in other posts made me a bit nervous. Ultimately I decided even if they are a little slower than others, I'm ok with that since we aren't in a rush. So long as the end result is the same.

So here was my experience with them. It took just LESS than 6 weeks to have the points in my DVC account from the day the offer was accepted. I haven't purchased through other brokers, but it sounds like other brokers do a lot more "hand holding" throughout the process. I really didn't find a need to have my hand held even though it was my first DVC purchase. My agent notified me when the offer was accepted and then walked me through the process, complete with anticipated timelines for each stage. I was fortunate to have sellers that submitted things in a timely manner, which is a variable that can delay the process. If a day or two elapsed beyond what I was told would be the timeline for a certain stage of the process, I would reach out to my agent and he would get right back to me. We were in the process in Jan/Feb last year and there were points expiring in May (that weren't even included in the original listing, but our agent found before things were sent for ROFR), so we wanted to try to use them in April. Knowing that, our agent pushed things along to help get it closed as soon as possible. His name was Frank and he was awesome. The only time where I felt somewhat in limbo and didn't get an immediate answer was at closing, but that had more to do with the title company. At the end of the day, the process was smooth and we fast. Although, we obviously weren't even able to use those points for the April trip we booked because of covid. All and all, we saved a good amount of money and we were very happy with the process.

 

[APiratesLifeForMe2]

The fact that the contracts are still listed after an apparent bidding war is the concerning part to me. If there were multiple offers why wouldn't the seller accept the highest one and the listing come down? It's good information to have though since this is the broker we are currently looking at for another add on. I think the experience probably has more to do with the individual agent rather than the company in general. A few mentioned fidelityrealestate.com and that's who our first contract came from with a great experience but our second experience offering on an add on contract was terrible since the agent said anything under asking was not acceptable, refusing to present our offer to the seller, so we went with another company.

 

[Marissa Vallotton]

Hey All,

My name is Marissa I am the sales and marketing director at the DVC Resale Market.

I totally understand the frustration and as a buyer if I were in your shoes I would be wondering the same thing!

I wanted to share some insight on the real estate and legal side of things so you have an understanding of what happens in these scenarios. When we have multiple offers and there is not an accepted offer from the seller then we have a legal obligation to present all offers to the seller.

In order to make things fair for all parties involved we give all buyers the chance to present their highest and best offer by a specific deadline, and whoever has the highest offer will move forward in negotiations with the seller. This way we can accomplish our legal obligation to the seller but also keep things as fair as possible for all buyers involved.

What is actually illegal is creating an auction environment or a "bidding war" where we disclose to one buyer that we currently have an offer of xxx and see if they will bid higher, then ping ponging back and forth to each buyer. This is an illegal inflation sales tactic and not something we do in our business. We simply offer all buyers the chance to provide their highest and best offer.

In response to 'the listing was still avail the next day or a few days later' - that was most certainly a case where a buyer's offer was indeed the 'highest & best' offer but at some point was simply unable to complete and finalize the transaction just because we have buyers provide their highest and best offers does not mean that the seller is going to accept the highest offer that comes in, they may decide to keep their listing on the market in order to get a more desirable offer.

On the flip side there have been comments about certain brokers only presenting one offer at a time to a seller. Keep in mind if a broker refuses to give an offer to a seller on a listing that does not currently have an offer accepted this is illegal. Brokers who are not willing to let sellers entertain other offers have a high risk of losing their license as this is not a legal real estate practice. Nor is this ethical as a buyer or seller you want the best opportunity possible, as a seller you want the chance to review all offers if your contract is still for sale. As a buyer you want the chance for your offer to be presented if there is an available listing you do not want to be turned away simply because there is another offer and the broker is not willing to legally present your offer.

As a transaction broker we need to ensure that we are fair to all parties as we are providing a service to both the buyer and the seller.

If anyone has further questions on this discussion I am happy to assist feel free to comment back or you can reach me directly at marissa@dvcresalemarket.com

 

[Lumpy1106]

THANK YOU Marissa for the explanation!

I was just going to post that if you offer the listed price the seller IS obligated to take your offer, but if you offer something lower they are not, and you should not be surprised if they do not accept your offer right away, want to wait and see what other offers come in, or flat-out reject your offer. How much less did the OP offer? NOT SAYING THE OP MADE A LOWBALL OFFER, but there was a time where it didn't do you much good to offer much lower than the listed price because Disney would just take it through ROFR. That time is not right now, but it doesn't mean it's a free-for-all. You still have to make a respectable offer - that's just the right thing to do.

Edit to add:
I really don't understand when people get emotional about not getting their offer accepted on a contract or even Disney taking it through ROFR. It's not like a house that may have special features or be in a special neighborhood. It's a timeshare contract; all the points spend the same for the same units. Just make another offer on a different contract. You may end up paying a little more, but you will get the same thing.

 

[bks9581]

Hey All,

My name is Marissa I am the sales and marketing director at the DVC Resale Market.

I totally understand the frustration and as a buyer if I were in your shoes I would be wondering the same thing!

I wanted to share some insight on the real estate and legal side of things so you have an understanding of what happens in these scenarios. When we have multiple offers and there is not an accepted offer from the seller then we have a legal obligation to present all offers to the seller.

In order to make things fair for all parties involved we give all buyers the chance to present their highest and best offer by a specific deadline, and whoever has the highest offer will move forward in negotiations with the seller. This way we can accomplish our legal obligation to the seller but also keep things as fair as possible for all buyers involved.

What is actually illegal is creating an auction environment or a "bidding war" where we disclose to one buyer that we currently have an offer of xxx and see if they will bid higher, then ping ponging back and forth to each buyer. This is an illegal inflation sales tactic and not something we do in our business. We simply offer all buyers the chance to provide their highest and best offer.

In response to 'the listing was still avail the next day or a few days later' - that was most certainly a case where a buyer's offer was indeed the 'highest & best' offer but at some point was simply unable to complete and finalize the transaction just because we have buyers provide their highest and best offers does not mean that the seller is going to accept the highest offer that comes in, they may decide to keep their listing on the market in order to get a more desirable offer.

On the flip side there have been comments about certain brokers only presenting one offer at a time to a seller. Keep in mind if a broker refuses to give an offer to a seller on a listing that does not currently have an offer accepted this is illegal. Brokers who are not willing to let sellers entertain other offers have a high risk of losing their license as this is not a legal real estate practice. Nor is this ethical as a buyer or seller you want the best opportunity possible, as a seller you want the chance to review all offers if your contract is still for sale. As a buyer you want the chance for your offer to be presented if there is an available listing you do not want to be turned away simply because there is another offer and the broker is not willing to legally present your offer.

As a transaction broker we need to ensure that we are fair to all parties as we are providing a service to both the buyer and the seller.

If anyone has further questions on this discussion I am happy to assist feel free to comment back or you can reach me directly at marissa@dvcresalemarket.com

I appreciate you explaining how the process is supposed to work. I still am not sure that is what happened in my experience.

What is actually illegal is creating an auction environment or a "bidding war" where we disclose to one buyer that we currently have an offer of xxx and see if they will bid higher, then ping ponging back and forth to each buyer. This is an illegal inflation sales tactic and not something we do in our business. We simply offer all buyers the chance to provide their highest and best offer.

On my second offer (after the bidding war communication) I received this response from the broker - "Thank you for your email but I actually found out the seller had another interested buyer and they were already negotiating something higher than $110 per point so $XXX won't work."
This seems like a blatant attempt to get me to come back with something over $110 which is unfair to the other buyer to share their offer amount, if there even was one. Also illegal based on what you described above.

Other communication that I mentioned in a previous post in this thread was "The seller is going to give everybody until 9 a.m. to think about this and present their highest and best offer and they will decide what's best. I have nothing to do with the other buyer so I have no idea what their offer might be."
As the broker presenting the seller with offers this seems like it would be untrue. I certainly wouldn't expect him to tell me that amount offered, but would hope for a more honest answer of - there is another offer, but I am unable to share the amount with you.

I understand sales and trying to get the best for your client, but it can still be done in a honest way and if my offer is so low that you know your seller won't even consider it, then just tell me and stop wasting both of our time. And this may not be what the official process is supposed to be, but as you can see this has happened to several people and the contracts were still listed days later. Impossible, no; but it's still suspicious to me.

 

[sethschroeder]

And that's the way it should work as a matter of basic contract law.

Maybe I am missing something because every time I sold a house or purchased a house doing full price is not an auto-purchase. You still need both parties to sign off.

The seller having a listed price doesn't require they accept an offer for that price.

 

[sethschroeder]

"Thank you for your email but I actually found out the seller had another interested buyer and they were already negotiating something higher than $110 per point so $XXX won't work."
This seems like a blatant attempt to get me to come back with something over $110 which is unfair to the other buyer to share their offer amount, if there even was one. Also illegal based on what you described above.

Was $110 the listing price of the contract?

I do not have any connection to the real estate industry just have purchased a couple of homes, sold a couple of homes, and have made a ton of offers over the past decade.

I have come across this before where basically because there is multiple offers on a specific house (this case contract) the listing agent will outline they are taking best and final but also what the "floor" price is especially if $110 in this instance was the listing price.

I can't speak to what is legal, illegal, or anything in between.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Maybe I am missing something because every time I sold a house or purchased a house doing full price is not an auto-purchase. You still need both parties to sign off.

The seller having a listed price doesn't require they accept an offer for that price.

That's true - nothing is final until the paperwork is done. HOWEVER, and keep in mind, I am not a broker nor have I ever sold a DVC contract, but I believe there are financial penalties to backing out of the sale if you are offered at or above asking price. Not only that, but if I was a broker, I'd be hesitant to work with that seller again.

 

[bks9581]

Was $110 the listing price of the contract?

No it was not the listing price.

 

[Marissa Vallotton]

Thank you for your detailed response.

I appreciate the detail and based on what you are communicating I totally understand where you are coming from.

It appears there may be something we can use as a coaching opportunity with our team or additional training for that specific agent so if you are able to send me more details please email me at marissa@dvcresalemarket.com. I want to ensure that you are having an excellent experience with your add on and with our company through the offer process so I really do want to thank you for your feedback.

There are times where certain sellers will have a bottom line number where they will only entertain offers above a certain price per point and ask us as the agent to decline all offers lower than that so this may be one of the scenarios that was not clearly communicated by our agent.

As for the highest and best offer since we have 13 agents that work here there are times where one agent has a buyer with an offer and another agent has a buyer with a different offer and those agents need to set up with their clients a highest and best offer time. In this scenario it is very likely that the other agent has no idea what the other offers is as they are not working with that buyer.

I think one thing to point out is the current market not only are we seeing this in traditional real estate but also in DVC. There are times where we have 500+ listings on the site with 70-80 offers a week and in those times having a highest and best scenario is quite rare. Currently have have around 280 listings on the site with around 130 offers coming in a week so the chances of having more than one buyer bidding on the same contract is quite normal right now. Couple that with Disney getting much more aggressive in their buy backs as of late makes for a very hot market so something to keep in mind if you are being told that there are multiple offers its very likely at the moment.

Thanks again!

I appreciate you explaining how the process is supposed to work. I still am not sure that is what happened in my experience.



On my second offer (after the bidding war communication) I received this response from the broker - "Thank you for your email but I actually found out the seller had another interested buyer and they were already negotiating something higher than $110 per point so $XXX won't work."
This seems like a blatant attempt to get me to come back with something over $110 which is unfair to the other buyer to share their offer amount, if there even was one. Also illegal based on what you described above.

Other communication that I mentioned in a previous post in this thread was "The seller is going to give everybody until 9 a.m. to think about this and present their highest and best offer and they will decide what's best. I have nothing to do with the other buyer so I have no idea what their offer might be."
As the broker presenting the seller with offers this seems like it would be untrue. I certainly wouldn't expect him to tell me that amount offered, but would hope for a more honest answer of - there is another offer, but I am unable to share the amount with you.

I understand sales and trying to get the best for your client, but it can still be done in a honest way and if my offer is so low that you know your seller won't even consider it, then just tell me and stop wasting both of our time. And this may not be what the official process is supposed to be, but as you can see this has happened to several people and the contracts were still listed days later. Impossible, no; but it's still suspicious to me.

 

[Chrisdriscoll]

Maybe I am missing something because every time I sold a house or purchased a house doing full price is not an auto-purchase. You still need both parties to sign off.

The seller having a listed price doesn't require they accept an offer for that price.

You are correct that the seller still has to sign off (and is not required to accept a full price bid) and since it is a real estate interest lasting more than 3 years there needs to be a written contract. But if I accept the sellers offer to buy at a certain price, I haven't changed their offer but accepted it. And it really wouldn't be worth it to litigate it if the seller backed out, and probably wouldn't have actual any legal remedy,, but I would have some very hard questions for the broker. For example Humbert got me a contract to sign within a half hour. I thought that was pretty good for a Saturday.

 

[limace]

I know they're a site sponsor, but I always found the reps on that site to be a little used car salesman-like. I don't think I've ever gotten a straight answer on an offer I've made. Now maybe it's all true, but it seems like it's always something and more money is needed.

It's also possible they just have much more visibility/traffic than some other sites, or that I'm unreasonable in my offers. But some other brokers haven't had an issue on them and I've been able to get contracts at my price point.

I will say that when I'm ready to sell, they're the first company I'm going to see about listing with.

I have not made an offer through them-not really in the market right now-but I will say that’s exactly the term (used car salesman) that I’ve thought of when listening to the most recent DVC show podcasts. They definitely have felt less informational and more advertising with the new sponsor.

 

[mommy2allyandaveri]

Hearing this really puts me off of that broker. I don't like those tactics and if they said that to me, I'd probably not put in an offer with them.

I did look at contracts through them, but did not find exactly what I was looking for. I'm working with a different broker that cannot be mentioned, but so far I have had a really good experience. He has been really friendly and helpful. I have not felt pushed to make an offer higher than I wanted to.

 

[Bearval]

I just had an offer accepted through a broker and it passed ROFR today but I thought the process was interesting in a good way.

I saw a AKL listed at $114per point, I offered $106. (this was a Friday going into holiday weekend - MLK day). I received no feedback Friday, so i called broker on Saturday to discuss, she told me that I likely would not hear back until Monday or Tuesday because of holiday on Monday. I told her I was concerned that the party may receive a higher offer and mine would be ignored and basically sitting around for 4 days.

Broker told me that they only show one offer to seller at a time, and no other offers would be presented until either we had agreed to terms or stopped making counter offers.

They counter-offered me at 109 on Tuesday, broker told me that they had other offers from buyers higher than mine, but they had not been presented to seller. I then accepted their counter-offer.

I am really not sure if this is standard or not. it has been 15 years since i purchased my last contract. But i really liked the way i was treated and would diffeerently use this broker again....so my point is some brokers are very good and professional.

I would definitely use a different broker if I were to sell my contacts. The broker should be presenting ALL offers to the seller and not just one at a time

 

[Bearval]

Maybe I am missing something because every time I sold a house or purchased a house doing full price is not an auto-purchase. You still need both parties to sign off.

The seller having a listed price doesn't require they accept an offer for that price.

That may be true but if the broker found a buyer that met or exceeded the asking price and conditions the seller would have to pay the broker the commission regardless if they sold or not.

 

[vicarrieous]

Side question, is there a standard expiration time for offers? Do sellers have unlimited amount of time to consider/wait for other offers if one is submitted? Is there a general guideline for example "offer expires in x-amount of hours/days". As a buy should you be including this in your offer? I only have experience one with placing an offer and no such language was present nor spot to insert this. Thoughts?

 

[Jimmynguyen77]

I've been perusing these boards to get a feel for what it is like to buy resale. the DVC estimator says that my family of four should buy in about 220 points. Does that seem like a lot for a family of four who vacations only a few times a year. Not always Disney.

 

[supersnoop]

But if I accept the sellers offer to buy at a certain price, I haven't changed their offer but accepted it.

I think you're misinterpreting the real estate market. A listing price is not considered an "offer" in normal contract offer/acceptance terms. It's considered a solicitation for an offer. You are the one making an offer at their asking price, but you are not accepting an offer that they have made. I've heard this misconception in the past, so it's not uncommon and, frankly, it makes sense to most people, but contract and real estate law are more complex.