Odd question about direct DVC sales

[goneviral]

Hi there. I have been reading this site for about three weeks as my wife and I debate purchasing a DVC time share. First of all, I want to thank all of you for your insights in this matter. The economic debates involving the virtues of direct sales vs. resales in particular have been wildly informative. I also feel tremendous gratitude for the people who have collated data regarding ROFR. I have studied page 162 of that thread a *lot*.

Now that the (most sincere) thank yous are out of the way, I was wondering something about DVC. When I spoke to a direct DVC sales person on the phone, they emailed me some detailed information about the matter. I appreciated the resources and replied with an email asking a few other questions. To my surprise, the person phoned back, indicating that they are not allowed to converse via email. This has happened twice more since then.

Sirens and alarms went off in my head. We had a fire a couple of years ago and our biggest mistake at that point was dealing with people over the phone. It enabled them with the ability to deny specific conversations or, at the very least, claim no recollection of the details. In my experience, whenever someone does not want to document something with a paper trail, they plan to behave with duplicity.

Given the reputation DVC has on this board, I found myself wondering if this is a mistake and I have stumbled upon a shadier DVC agent. I have a tendency to doubt that, which scares me in dealing with the company at all. Am I having bad luck here or is this really a corporate policy for DVC? If it's the latter, is there any authorized process to create a paper trail?

 

[Missyrose]

It's DVC policy to not discuss financial details or answer questions via email. If you send questions to your salesperson, they will email you back asking when would be a convenient time to discuss things on the phone.

 

[LisaS]

I believe it is a corporate policy. This has been reported here many times in the past. I believe most DVC guides are reputable but you are better off getting your questions answered here. Even some of the good DVC salespersons are not above stretching the truth or leaving out some pertinent facts to make a sale.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

BUT - guides have been known to provide incorrect information. The contracts themselves are the only thing that provides the absolute correct information. That is the only authorized paper trail you will get. And once you've read thru them all and get to the end you'll read the sentence that DVC can change most of what you just read anyway.

However I don't think you hit on a shady guide but it is DVC policy probably because they don't want to get into a situation where a guide provides incorrect info.

 

[disneynutz]

It's a DVD policy for the sales people not to respond via email. Most Guides are above board, some flavor the truth more than others. Their only reason for being is to sell you a timeshare and to make you feel that buying direct is the only option. It it isn't in writing, like you said, there isn't any proof. Guides do make mistakes and it is a licensed business with legal aspects to it.

Bill

 

[GS for life]

Our guide was great. I never felt any pressure to buy, and they found a 220 point VWL contract for us last year. We were only interested in a few of the older properties, and were never pushed to buy at AKL or Aulani. We did meet with them in person, if that makes a difference.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[rcchello]

Being that Disney is a large corporation that people have a tendency to sue, anything that is written down needs to contain all the appropriate legal verbiage or been previously been vetted by the legal department.

For information about purchasing a timeshare, it also must be reviewed based on the laws of the state you reside in and include the appropriate disclaimers.

So any email that said anything of interest would require at least a half page of disclaimers, just look at any sales material you have received from Disney.

I think you would rather talk to the salesperson, then have to take a couple of weeks between emails for a legal review of each email. Also consider, that it would cost Disney at least $1000.00 for the legal review.

 

[goneviral]

Thank you all for your detailed replies. I didn't get the vibe that the sales person was trying to be dishonest but the idea of no paper trail concerns me a great deal.

 

[Sur]

Our guide was upfront about why financial subjects cannot be emailed from them... if a number is transposed, a detail incorrect, they are held to it, and that can (and has) been a very costly mistake for them. Speaking in person also allows for clarification.

Our lawyer holds to the same standard. Surmise as you wish.

 

[Breyean]

Our guide was upfront about why financial subjects cannot be emailed from them... if a number is transposed, a detail incorrect, they are held to it, and that can (and has) been a very costly mistake for them. Speaking in person also allows for clarification.

Our lawyer holds to the same standard. Surmise as you wish.

Exactly. When my sister bought from my guide a couple of years ago, she got an email from him with the price for her BLT contract she wanted.

Problem was, the guide used the wrong chart for current members, but my sister didn't know that. When she called him back to buy, he said he couldn't do that price.

Now, it was an honest mistake, but still a mistake. And my sister had used that price in her decision making about how many points to buy, etc.

So she was bummed she was going to have to rethink what she could afford.

The guide put her in touch with his manager, and she wound up getting her points at the price in the email.

 

[DizGirl20]

Just to echo what everyone else has already said -our guide always calls me back if I email him a question. He will respond quite often within the hour - morning, noon and night. I figured it was good PR as well as a way not to put anything in writing. It doesn't bother me at all as he is very professional and courteous and I figure it just strengthens our relationship vs. an impersonal email. But that's just me...

 

[Dean]

Thank you all for your detailed replies. I didn't get the vibe that the sales person was trying to be dishonest but the idea of no paper trail concerns me a great deal.

And that's the main reason they have this policy because they want the legal documents to speak for themselves and not give you documentation that might contradict them.

 

[Iceman93]

Most Guides are above board, some flavor the truth more than others. Their only reason for being is to sell you a timeshare and to make you feel that buying direct is the only option.

HIJACK ALERT

I see this view repeated often on this board, and it simply wasn't true at least in my case. I went to Aulani with no intention of buying into DVC, but we loved the place so much we decided to wander in and learn what we could. Our guide was fantastic--thoroughly answered questions, provided guidance as we needed it, and used a total no-pressure approach. Each evening in our room I would do research (on sites like this) and come back to him the next day with more questions.

Of course the issue of resales came up. He was as blunt and factual as can be in telling us we could save a lot of money by buying resale, and that resale actually makes sense for a lot of buyers. He then went into the advantages of direct purchase (and remember we were at and loved Aulani, where there was no resale market yet), and encouraged us to take our time, do our research, and decide whatever was right for us.

Probably not every guide is as professional, honest, competent, and knowledgeable as ours seems to be. But when I see a broad brush painting all the guides as somewhere between shady and downright dishonest, it just bugs me.

NOW, BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD...

 

[agie65]

HIJACK ALERT

I see this view repeated often on this board, and it simply wasn't true at least in my case. I went to Aulani with no intention of buying into DVC, but we loved the place so much we decided to wander in and learn what we could. Our guide was fantastic--thoroughly answered questions, provided guidance as we needed it, and used a total no-pressure approach. Each evening in our room I would do research (on sites like this) and come back to him the next day with more questions.

Of course the issue of resales came up. He was as blunt and factual as can be in telling us we could save a lot of money by buying resale, and that resale actually makes sense for a lot of buyers. He then went into the advantages of direct purchase (and remember we were at and loved Aulani, where there was no resale market yet), and encouraged us to take our time, do our research, and decide whatever was right for us.

Probably not every guide is as professional, honest, competent, and knowledgeable as ours seems to be. But when I see a broad brush painting all the guides as somewhere between shady and downright dishonest, it just bugs me.

NOW, BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD...

You are right not every one is dishonest. I started with some one on phone, guy was very nice explaining everything, no pressure. We were going to disney in a week after that, when we got there, in the park at kiosk I made a tour appointment. Now the person I got this time said they are ROFRing all the resale. Well I was reading and researching every were, so I made offers on lot of contracts hoping to get half or third. Well, so far mouse did not bite a single time and over a month collected approx 2000 points.

 

[Dean]

It's a DVD policy for the sales people not to respond via email. Most Guides are above board, some flavor the truth more than others. Their only reason for being is to sell you a timeshare and to make you feel that buying direct is the only option. It it isn't in writing, like you said, there isn't any proof. Guides do make mistakes and it is a licensed business with legal aspects to it.

Bill

HIJACK ALERT

I see this view repeated often on this board, and it simply wasn't true at least in my case. I went to Aulani with no intention of buying into DVC, but we loved the place so much we decided to wander in and learn what we could. Our guide was fantastic--thoroughly answered questions, provided guidance as we needed it, and used a total no-pressure approach. Each evening in our room I would do research (on sites like this) and come back to him the next day with more questions.

Of course the issue of resales came up. He was as blunt and factual as can be in telling us we could save a lot of money by buying resale, and that resale actually makes sense for a lot of buyers. He then went into the advantages of direct purchase (and remember we were at and loved Aulani, where there was no resale market yet), and encouraged us to take our time, do our research, and decide whatever was right for us.

Probably not every guide is as professional, honest, competent, and knowledgeable as ours seems to be. But when I see a broad brush painting all the guides as somewhere between shady and downright dishonest, it just bugs me.

NOW, BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD...

I don't see Bill's statement as contradictory to your experience as stated. While I think your experience was the norm historically, it has not been quite as much so in recent years. IMO, they should be more pressure than you experienced, their job IS to sell DVC which they can do and still be honest and professional.

 

[JimMIA]

Probably not every guide is as professional, honest, competent, and knowledgeable as ours seems to be. But when I see a broad brush painting all the guides as somewhere between shady and downright dishonest, it just bugs me.

I would say the opposite -- that most DVC timeshare sales people operate as yours did.

Incidentally, that is NOT unique to DVC; several of the other top systems sales forces operate on that same high level. And then there are the sleazy ones like Westgate and Wyndham...

I actually had both styles from the same saleswoman at DVC. She was helpful and professional, and then lied through her teeth to me...telling me she had attended a "secret meeting" that morning where the sales force were told that DVC would be ROFRing every contract submitted for the foreseeable future. Fortunately, I had discovered the DIS and knew better at that point.

However...one should always remember that a knowledgeable sales professional is still a salesman. Their job is to present their product in the best possible light and to get your name on the dotted line. They have no obligation to look out for your best financial interests -- that's YOUR job. Their job is to sell, and a good salesman will make mountains out of molehills with the benefits of his product and "issues" with alternatives like resale to leave only one reasonable path -- to buy from him. That's sales.

 

[bigvig1130]

HIJACK ALERT

I see this view repeated often on this board, and it simply wasn't true at least in my case. I went to Aulani with no intention of buying into DVC, but we loved the place so much we decided to wander in and learn what we could. Our guide was fantastic--thoroughly answered questions, provided guidance as we needed it, and used a total no-pressure approach. Each evening in our room I would do research (on sites like this) and come back to him the next day with more questions.

Of course the issue of resales came up. He was as blunt and factual as can be in telling us we could save a lot of money by buying resale, and that resale actually makes sense for a lot of buyers. He then went into the advantages of direct purchase (and remember we were at and loved Aulani, where there was no resale market yet), and encouraged us to take our time, do our research, and decide whatever was right for us.

Probably not every guide is as professional, honest, competent, and knowledgeable as ours seems to be. But when I see a broad brush painting all the guides as somewhere between shady and downright dishonest, it just bugs me.

NOW, BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD...

It's easy for a salesperson to be more upfront about avenues that don't benefit them when the product you want is only obtained one way. He could tell you everything about resales because he knew you were interested in Aulani and that was only available direct. Just seems like another sales tactic.

 

[ELMC]

I would say the opposite -- that most DVC timeshare sales people operate as yours did.

Incidentally, that is NOT unique to DVC; several of the other top systems sales forces operate on that same high level. And then there are the sleazy ones like Westgate and Wyndham...

I would also suggest that salespeople vary within the system at other companies as well, not just DVC. My Orlando salesperson for Marriott was as sleazy and misleading as could be. At one point he told us that something was not an option and then after an hour of our rejecting his sales pitches, he asked us if we wanted to choose that option. But in St. Thomas, our Marriott salesperson was different. She still tried to sell us big time, but was not as obviously sleazy. Not surprisingly, when I shared my experience with the Orlando salesperson she denounced his actions. But then again, that was probably all an act as well.

Bottom line, I don't trust timeshare salespeople. They want something from me, so of course they are going to be nice to me. But I'll never know their true feelings. It's the same reason why I never dated an actress...you can never tell when they are being sincere or acting.

 

[goneviral]

Just to echo what everyone else has already said -our guide always calls me back if I email him a question. He will respond quite often within the hour - morning, noon and night. I figured it was good PR as well as a way not to put anything in writing. It doesn't bother me at all as he is very professional and courteous and I figure it just strengthens our relationship vs. an impersonal email. But that's just me...

Respectfully, that is easy for you to say since Disney currently honors your preferred method of information exchange. Your preference happens to be in line with the one they use. *MY* preference is summarily ignored by the company.

I am a webmaster who handles all of my negotiations via email. In fact, I have to go back to 2007 to remember a signed agreement that was not largely discussed in this manner.

Even if this had not been my preferred form of contact prior to then, I had to watch two years ago as people willingly perjured themselves in order to deny the truth about a fire in my home. Everyone had acknowledged the events the day of the fire when the firemen were still at the building. Once people lawyered up, however, it was remarkable how much those (thankfully) documented events became questioned, though. Honest firemen saved us twice in this regard.

Still, that was a teaching moment for me. I recognized that anyone who uses the phone but will not leave a paper trail is reserving the right to lie shamelessly later in the process.

With this business decision, DVC immediately troubled me as a potential customer. With 450k people, they are not going to lose any sleep over it but it was still a frustration for me.

 

[ELMC]

Respectfully, that is easy for you to say since Disney currently honors your preferred method of information exchange. Your preference happens to be in line with the one they use. *MY* preference is summarily ignored by the company.

I am a webmaster who handles all of my negotiations via email. In fact, I have to go back to 2007 to remember a signed agreement that was not largely discussed in this manner.

Even if this had not been my preferred form of contact prior to then, I had to watch two years ago as people willingly perjured themselves in order to deny the truth about a fire in my home. Everyone had acknowledged the events the day of the fire when the firemen were still at the building. Once people lawyered up, however, it was remarkable how much those (thankfully) documented events became questioned, though. Honest firemen saved us twice in this regard.

Still, that was a teaching moment for me. I recognized that anyone who uses the phone but will not leave a paper trail is reserving the right to lie shamelessly later in the process.

With this business decision, DVC immediately troubled me as a potential customer. With 450k people, they are not going to lose any sleep over it but it was still a frustration for me.

You make a good point. For you personally the only decision is whether or not you can overlook this and move forward with DVC. I would suggest taking copious notes, getting everything you can in writing prior to signing the contracts, and if anything sounds fishy, come here on the DIS for clarification. Good luck.