Observations after first trip in a chair

[fabfemmeboy]

While I was previously a DAS-user, I've just finished my first chair-bound trip to Disney (the Land, not the World), and there were some things that really surprised me, both positive and negative. I feel like some of these would have been nice to know beforehand, and I know there are a lot more things other people have noticed/experienced that they didn't expect. For me, the big ones were:

The Good
* I was concerned about people talking over/about me instead of to me, and while we had that issue a few times outside the park that was not an issue at all at the park itself. My partner thinks it was partly because I tended to take the lead in things, which helped make clear that I knew what I wanted and how to ask for it, but it also seemed like the CMs had pretty good training about that issue which I really appreciated.
* I was worried about accessibility of the older rides since the park WAY predates the ADA, but in a few cases it worked out even better than expected. (Did you know that, if you have a DAS and a mobility issue, you can basically queue up three rides in a row for BTMRR? Best afternoon ever!)
* Despite plenty of park-hopping and full days, I didn't have any issues with either battery or maneuverability of my Fold-n-Go.
* I had felt silly taking the chair before we left, knowing most of the time I'm "fine" and thinking I was overreacting. But when my legs went wonky our second evening, I was really glad I'd sucked it up and ridden to the park. Definitely worth it.

The Bad
* Parents seriously did not seem to understand that there are things other than strollers that need to use the cut-outs at the curb...or elevators at the hotel, or gates at the turnstiles, etc. I was so over strollers by the middle of the first day, not even kidding.
* Stupid trolley rails are exactly the right width to get my front wheels stuck in, it turns out.
* Some rides that are meant to have accessibility options...don't, really, in practice, or they're difficult to utilize. For example, at the teacups, according to everything online and the signs at the attraction, chairs are meant to enter through the exit and can even transfer pretty easily into certain cups because of the height. But with only one CM manning the entire ride and not paying attention to anything going on at/around the gates, there was literally no way to get her attention to then get through the exit and board. We tried, another couple tried, a third family tried, and in the end we all gave up.
* On a similar note: I have a lot of tolerance for things not being set up very accessibly when they were built in 1955. But SWGE was surprisingly difficult to navigate with a lot of stairs and teeeeeeeny tiny shops given that it was built this year. There was basically an entire section that I spent maybe 5 minutes in because I couldn't actually get into or around it well enough to be worth the fight.

The Other
* I had expected to need to leave my chair a lot of places that I needed to be worried about people taking it or messing with it. In reality, I don't think it was ever left anywhere that wasn't closely supervised by CMs with very little traffic around it (only a few others leaving or retrieving their chairs).
* I hadn't been sure about chair areas for World of Color, and it turns out there was an area and it was fantastic...but we found it by accident. Not a single CM pointed us to it on our way into the viewing area, even though I was clearly in a chair, and nothing I could find online told me about it or how to get to it. Once there, we saw a ton of people with strollers trying to argue their way into it which was really frustrating and disheartening, and I think part of it was because they weren't completely sure whom the space was for or why. That needs to be much better explained/publicized/displayed/something. I was glad we found it, but it was only because we were trying to move down from our original spot.
* While a lot of people disliked Project Stardust messing with curbs, I'm really glad for it because it meant I could weave a lot more places and get into/out of/around things without worrying about where the curb cutouts were. Sure, it doesn't look as historically accurate or whatever now, but it's far more accessible and 1890 wasn't so great anyway! (I'm a gay disabled Jew married to a gay Mexican Jew. This is not a new opinion in my household )

What has surprised you about accessibility "stuff" at Disney?

 

[Bjkandma]

The trolley tracks: if you are fortunate to go again, cross over them at an angle.
Ive been disappointed in the fact that Disney continues to build new experiences without accommodating mobility devices. When I brought this to the attention of Guest Service s, I was told they had rides and stores I could go in. I agree, there is no reason for Disney to build new rides and stores (even renovating (Frozen Ever After in World), without making accommodations.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Good review, but I'm admittedly confused by the comment about the strollers using curb cuts and elevators...why wouldn't they? And why shouldn't they?

 

[DisneyOma]

I'm confused as well - you were able to get a wheelchair return time and a DAS return time at the same time?

 

[geek+nerd]

Good review, but I'm admittedly confused by the comment about the strollers using curb cuts and elevators...why wouldn't they? And why shouldn't they?

I don’t want to put words in anyone else’s mouth, but I think understand. There have been a number of times when I’ve been cut off by strollers when trying to go up or down a curb cut. There are also times when folks with strollers will go up or down the cut and then stop, basically blocking it from use.

 

[seashoreCM]

Doesn't a wheelchair return time work the same way as a Disability Access Services return time?
So only one return time needs to be fetched.

Some rides (I think Alien Swirlig Saucers is one of them) have magnetic catches on the exit gates. The catches are released when the ride comes to a stop and then can also be pulled from the outside. If you were able to get it at least partly open then you could take your time and the CM would come over. Strangers, multiple single riders or otherwise, should not share Tea Party cups.

If you feel silly bringing the wheelchair because you can get around yourself, do remember that with the wheelchair you can walk 10% of the time, 50% of the time, etc. but without the wheelchair you must walk 100% of the time.

Trolley rails were an inconvenience to persons using small wheeled conveyances, notably bicycles way back when, ever since 1830 or so when streetcars were first invented. New trolley (light rail) systems are being developed and solving this problem first is not a priority.

No one should be stopping and blocking curb ramps, or anything else (doorways? stairs? ordering and delivery counters?) that others may need to use, when there is other space to move to. Could they hear you? Were you traveling with someone else who could assist?

If clerks, waiters, etc. are talking over you then they must have been talking to someone else in your family or party. Said person should not talk or answer in your behalf but rather should instruct the clerk, etc. to talk to you.

 

[SueM in MN]

I don’t want to put words in anyone else’s mouth, but I think understand. There have been a number of times when I’ve been cut off by strollers when trying to go up or down a curb cut. There are also times when folks with strollers will go up or down the cut and then stop, basically blocking it from use.

Yes.
that happens a lot. I think people are not really paying attention that they are going down a curb cut, so most don’t realize they are blocking a curb cut when they stop in it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don’t want to put words in anyone else’s mouth, but I think understand. There have been a number of times when I’ve been cut off by strollers when trying to go up or down a curb cut. There are also times when folks with strollers will go up or down the cut and then stop, basically blocking it from use.

Yes, I think along these same lines (at least until OP comes back to correct us).

 

[fabfemmeboy]

Yes, I think along these same lines (at least until OP comes back to correct us).

That's exactly it. Obviously they can/should use curb cutouts, the strollers have wheels, etc. But a frustrating number of people would either cut me off to try to get to the cutout because they just realized there was a curb there (which at Disneyland is kind of hilarious because of course there's a curb - it's a large intersection with cars!) or would just stop on their way into or out of the cutout.

 

[fabfemmeboy]

I'm confused as well - you were able to get a wheelchair return time and a DAS return time at the same time?

Yes, because at least at Disneyland they treat wheelchair returns as a different system than DAS. They work very similarly (e.g. the line would be x long, come back in x-10 minutes) but are called something else - Local Return Time, maybe? Something like that. And just as DAS is independent of FP- so you can hold both returns at the same time and scan them sequentially, the LRT is independent of both of those. Which, if you're using them for different rides, really does make sense. Say I have a DAS for Haunted Mansion, which has an hour wait, and I decide to go ride something else with a 20-minute wait. That's what's supposed to happen. BUT if that "something else" I want to ride isn't accessible and requires entering through the exit, they have to give a return time that's separate from DAS. At DL it requires getting the return time from the ride itself, not from the info stands throughout the park, and is the full length of the line rather than x-10. They keep them separate so that, in the scenario above, they don't have to cancel my Haunted Mansion DAS just because the particular ride I want requires me to wait in a virtual queue regardless of my ability to wait. I didn't set out to do it on purpose, a CM told me about the glitch when I went to ride Big Thunder while waiting for something else, but as a practical matter it was a nice little bonus.

 

[tsumgirl]

I was also informed by a CM that I qualified for DAS and a wheelchair return time at DL. I was requesting a DAS return time for a ride that utilized wheelchair return times and the CM advised that I utilize DAS for rides that don't have wheelchair return times if it was more convenient for me.

I can't ride too many rides consecutively as it triggers my disability, but it is very helpful when I don't have to travel to a GR umbrella to get a DAS for a ride that's close by.

 

[DisneyOma]

Yes, because at least at Disneyland they treat wheelchair returns as a different system than DAS. They work very similarly (e.g. the line would be x long, come back in x-10 minutes) but are called something else - Local Return Time, maybe? Something like that. And just as DAS is independent of FP- so you can hold both returns at the same time and scan them sequentially, the LRT is independent of both of those. Which, if you're using them for different rides, really does make sense. Say I have a DAS for Haunted Mansion, which has an hour wait, and I decide to go ride something else with a 20-minute wait. That's what's supposed to happen. BUT if that "something else" I want to ride isn't accessible and requires entering through the exit, they have to give a return time that's separate from DAS. At DL it requires getting the return time from the ride itself, not from the info stands throughout the park, and is the full length of the line rather than x-10. They keep them separate so that, in the scenario above, they don't have to cancel my Haunted Mansion DAS just because the particular ride I want requires me to wait in a virtual queue regardless of my ability to wait. I didn't set out to do it on purpose, a CM told me about the glitch when I went to ride Big Thunder while waiting for something else, but as a practical matter it was a nice little bonus.

So having a DAS and a wheelchair allows one to be in 3 queues at the same time at DL? Wonder how long that will last - seems like an abuse of the system to me.

 

[tinkerbelletreasure]

I am suprised they were able to get DAS. Usually they treat the wheelchair as the accommodation for most things if they can. Last year was my first year bringing a wheelchair to Disney. I felt silly because I don’t use one in my day to day life and I felt like people would judge me for using it when I can walk, but as someone pointed out, I can’t walk constantly for 12 hours. Previous trips required lots of breaks and usually 2 hours of ice and elevation every evening to continue. We had such a better trip this time when I wasn’t pushing myself to exhaustion and sucking it up when I was in pain. I’ve accepted that my Disney life now includes wheelchairs.

 

[MidWax]

Yes.
that happens a lot. I think people are not really paying attention that they are going down a curb cut, so most don’t realize they are blocking a curb cut when they stop in it.

That’s right. And most people aren’t standing there to be rude. They just don’t realize that the curb cuts are the only way wheelchairs, scooters and large strollers can get from the sidewalk to the street and back again. When this happens, I get within talking distance and say “Excuse me” and they move. Some give me a strange look and I explain that they are blocking the ramp. I use the word ramp because it’s more familiar. Then they move. That’s all it takes. Some apologize for blocking the cut, others don’t.

 

[fabfemmeboy]

I am suprised they were able to get DAS. Usually they treat the wheelchair as the accommodation for most things if they can. Last year was my first year bringing a wheelchair to Disney. I felt silly because I don’t use one in my day to day life and I felt like people would judge me for using it when I can walk, but as someone pointed out, I can’t walk constantly for 12 hours. Previous trips required lots of breaks and usually 2 hours of ice and elevation every evening to continue. We had such a better trip this time when I wasn’t pushing myself to exhaustion and sucking it up when I was in pain. I’ve accepted that my Disney life now includes wheelchairs.

I was concerned about that going in, honestly. I know others have said that Disney tends to assume that wheelchair users only have mobility issues and therefore don't need a DAS as they can wait in the regular queue in their chairs. I actually found it faster and easier to get my DAS this time than my last trip, when I needed a DAS but did not use a chair. I don't know whether it's a DL/WDW difference or just a particular CM or what, but I was pleasantly surprised because I had been worried.

 

[fabfemmeboy]

So having a DAS and a wheelchair allows one to be in 3 queues at the same time at DL? Wonder how long that will last - seems like an abuse of the system to me.

Well, from what I could gather it's been the system for quite some time at DL...and it's not an abuse of the system. I can wait in line for a particular length of time and gauge my decision to enter a queue or not accordingly. About 20 minutes I can manage in an outdoor queue if it's not too hot out. (Indoors no way, the noise sends me into meltdown.) So I sign up for a ride - say, Haunted Mansion, which had a line of over an hour at the time - and go in search of another ride to enjoy while waiting. That's not abusing the system, that's what anyone with a DAS can/does do. I see BTMRR is at 20 minutes and roll up to join the queue, BUT it has a ton of stairs so I can't do that. Instead, anyone with mobility issues needs to enter through the exit. To stop it from being an automatic walk-on for anyone claiming they can't do stairs, they give a return time. They tell me to show up at the exit in 10 minutes and then make my way against the stream of exit traffic to the ramp where I can load in at around the same time. That's also not abusing any system, that's literally just going where they tell me because the regular queue isn't accessible. I believe all queues at WDW are accessible now, but at DL that's simply not the case because there's so much less space and it's older. There are quite a few rides where wheelchairs enter through the exit there.

And obviously FP can be combined with DAS, that's well-known and encouraged not only here but by Disney itself.

Under the system at all parks, a DAS-user can have a FP for a ride and request a return-time for that same ride. That's not abusing the system, correct? And the same user, while holding a DAS-return and a FP-return, can then join the queue for any ride they want and wait with everyone else for that ride if they feel they are able to handle that queue. In fact, in literature for the DAS and on posts explaining the DAS on this board, it says that riding other rides with shorter queues is something that we can and should do during our wait time, meaning technically we're in two queues at once: the DAS queue (virtual) and the actual queue, plus waiting for whatever FP. The only difference here is that, where the queue physically cannot accommodate a person, the only option is to go through the exit and rather than saying "just go now and skip the 25-minute queue and have instant access" (like the old system used to be), it says "come back in 15 minutes so you ride about the same time as you would in the queue."

A DAS person can time their rides to loop something two or three times by combining a return time, FP, and a short "regular" queue as appropriate. How is this any different, except it requires me to go through the exit because the regular queue has stairs?

 

[SueM in MN]

I was concerned about that going in, honestly. I know others have said that Disney tends to assume that wheelchair users only have mobility issues and therefore don't need a DAS as they can wait in the regular queue in their chairs. I actually found it faster and easier to get my DAS this time than my last trip, when I needed a DAS but did not use a chair. I don't know whether it's a DL/WDW difference or just a particular CM or what, but I was pleasantly surprised because I had been worried.

The majority of guests renting a wheelchair/ECV are probably doing it for mobility needs and don’t have additional needs as long as they can use the Mobility device in line. That is also probably true for most guests who have their own mobility device.
Guests with additional needs that are not addressed just by using the mobility device just need to explain their additional concerns at Guest Relations.

DL is different than WDW. Most WDW lines are wheelchair accessible. DL has more that are not, especially in Disneyland park.

 

[DisneyOma]

Well, from what I could gather it's been the system for quite some time at DL...and it's not an abuse of the system. I can wait in line for a particular length of time and gauge my decision to enter a queue or not accordingly. About 20 minutes I can manage in an outdoor queue if it's not too hot out. (Indoors no way, the noise sends me into meltdown.) So I sign up for a ride - say, Haunted Mansion, which had a line of over an hour at the time - and go in search of another ride to enjoy while waiting. That's not abusing the system, that's what anyone with a DAS can/does do. I see BTMRR is at 20 minutes and roll up to join the queue, BUT it has a ton of stairs so I can't do that. Instead, anyone with mobility issues needs to enter through the exit. To stop it from being an automatic walk-on for anyone claiming they can't do stairs, they give a return time. They tell me to show up at the exit in 10 minutes and then make my way against the stream of exit traffic to the ramp where I can load in at around the same time. That's also not abusing any system, that's literally just going where they tell me because the regular queue isn't accessible. I believe all queues at WDW are accessible now, but at DL that's simply not the case because there's so much less space and it's older. There are quite a few rides where wheelchairs enter through the exit there.

And obviously FP can be combined with DAS, that's well-known and encouraged not only here but by Disney itself.

Under the system at all parks, a DAS-user can have a FP for a ride and request a return-time for that same ride. That's not abusing the system, correct? And the same user, while holding a DAS-return and a FP-return, can then join the queue for any ride they want and wait with everyone else for that ride if they feel they are able to handle that queue. In fact, in literature for the DAS and on posts explaining the DAS on this board, it says that riding other rides with shorter queues is something that we can and should do during our wait time, meaning technically we're in two queues at once: the DAS queue (virtual) and the actual queue, plus waiting for whatever FP. The only difference here is that, where the queue physically cannot accommodate a person, the only option is to go through the exit and rather than saying "just go now and skip the 25-minute queue and have instant access" (like the old system used to be), it says "come back in 15 minutes so you ride about the same time as you would in the queue."

A DAS person can time their rides to loop something two or three times by combining a return time, FP, and a short "regular" queue as appropriate. How is this any different, except it requires me to go through the exit because the regular queue has stairs?

So, saying it this way - you've got your DAS return time, because you couldn't handle that queue, and then you've gone to ride something else in the meantime, and that gives you a return time as well because you have a wheelchair (but you could handle the standby queue there?) and then gone on to ride something else?

 

[Follower of Walt]

Kz

 

[Mamabun]

* I hadn't been sure about chair areas for World of Color, and it turns out there was an area and it was fantastic...but we found it by accident. Not a single CM pointed us to it on our way into the viewing area, even though I was clearly in a chair, and nothing I could find online told me about it or how to get to it. Once there, we saw a ton of people with strollers trying to argue their way into it which was really frustrating and disheartening, and I think part of it was because they weren't completely sure whom the space was for or why. That needs to be much better explained/publicized/displayed/something. I was glad we found it, but it was only because we were trying to move down from our original spot.

We were there in July with a young girl in a wheelchair. We weren't aware of the wheelchair viewing area, but a cast member in that area saw us and came and escorted us to the area. It was really excellent as we had thought about skipping WOC because we thought the wheelchair user would not really be able to see at all. That section was incredibly useful to us - made our night. But I agree not much is known about it, and it's not labeled at all.