Obama's Speech

Does this help? Here a few quotes.

September 2001: “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”

– September 2001: “We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.”

– September 2001: “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because of stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own backyard. America is chickens coming home to roost.”

– April 2003: “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes three-strike laws and wants them to sing God Bless America. No! No No! God damn America … for killing innocent people. God damn America for threatening citizens as less than humans. God damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and supreme.”

– December 2007: “Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people. Hillary would never know that.”

– December 2007: “Hillary ain’t never been called a ******. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.”

– Jan. 13, 2008: “Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain’t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.”

– “Fact number one: We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college. … Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run.”

– “We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional killers. … We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. … We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. … We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means.
And … And … And! God! Has got! To be sick! Of this ****!”

Thanks Dawn,

It does indeed help.

Those are the same quotes that I could find. Although the last two don't have a date reference, I believe they were recent - since 2001 as well.

This reinforces for me that the "I'd be out of there after one of these sermons" and "How could he sit there and listen to this hate for 20 years" arguments are at best, ill-informed and at worst knowingly disingenuous attacks on Obama.

No one seems to be buying the idea that Obama himself is tarnished by these statements - since he never said anything remotely like them and has disavowed the words and content, so the other arguments are just a way to try to turn it into a question of his character.

Is there something of concern here to be considered? Yes.

Should it be the defining issue to determine whether you vote for the man or not? Not in my opinion.

As I said before, I don't know if I'm going to vote for Obama in November (if given the chance) or for McCain. At this point, between the two, I'm probably 60-40 in favor of McCain.

But it's not the issue of his Pastor or his church that is swaying my decision.

Until and unless there is more evidence of these types of statements from Rev. Wright going back a WHOLE lot further than 2001, the argument that he listened to this stuff for 20 years is simply bogus in my eyes.
 
Disneyjunkie, you're a treasure. Thank you for your well researched, thoughtful post. :goodvibes The facts are the facts, aren't they?
Both of my kids have graduated from college in the last few years and I'm familiar with financial aid-which is why I asked mick to post the link to his "information". No link ever appeared. :rolleyes1

Disneyjunkie, I'd like to echo lilyv, you ARE a treasure. :worship:

I also tried to get mick to come up off the info. Still waiting. :confused: :confused3
 
Isn't 7 long enough?

Nope. It's not.

If, as it appears, these were not the typical sunday sermons - but relatively isolated incidents, then it certainly is not enough.

Reverend Wright, by all accounts, is a close friend, counselor and spiritual advisor to Obama. If they had a 13 year relationship prior to these statements, and were close, then these isolated comments are not enough for me to expect Obama to break ties with a church community he feels a part of.

Other than the 9/11 comments and the 2003 "God Damn America" statement, these are all very recent and, I think, tied to the campaign and not to normal preaching.

Also, I haven't heard many people talk about the church itself. A church is more than the pastors that preach there. My primary affinity for my church is not the pastors that preach on Sunday morning (though I think they are wonderful at that), but is the community, fellowship and relationship with others who make up the body of the church.

Why should we expect Obama to walk away from that because the pastor has said some stupid, hateful, crackpot things?
 
My primary affinity for my church is not the pastors that preach on Sunday morning (though I think they are wonderful at that), but is the community, fellowship and relationship with others who make up the body of the church.

Why should we expect Obama to walk away from that because the pastor has said some stupid, hateful, crackpot things?

The ones whom were clapping and cheering when he made his God (darn) America statements?

So, not only does the pastor say crackpot things, the parishoners seemed to buying into it, as well.

WOuld you wake away then? WOuld have Mr Crackpot marrying you and baptising your munchkins? Dont even answer... I know the answer....

This is getting crazy weird....
 

Why should we expect Obama to walk away from that because the pastor has said some stupid, hateful, crackpot things?


Because he was saying them about our country and our citizens. And Obama is running for president, the leader of our country and its citizens.
 
The ones whom were clapping and cheering when he made his God (darn) America statements?

So, not only does the pastor say crackpot things, the parishoners seemed to buying into it, as well.

WOuld you wake away then? WOuld have Mr Crackpot marrying you and baptising your munchkins? Dont even answer... I know the answer....

This is getting crazy weird....

Gee... that's strange. How do you know the answer when I don't?

This is what bothers me about this debate... it doesn't seem to be able to stay civil.

I have not heard the actual recording of the 2003 sermon. I was primarily reading about this while at work and can't see youtube.

I need to go find it and watch/listen.

If that attitude seems pervasive in the church, then yes, it does concern me more.


Sheesh... with the extreme depth of feeling and opinion on both sides of this issue, it is hard to be in the middle and trying to honestly understand the issue and rationally think about it and discuss it.
 
Because he was saying them about our country and our citizens. And Obama is running for president, the leader of our country and its citizens.

Are you really saying that he should give up on the whole of the church community because of something the pastor said?

At least CathrynRose raises the legitimate question of whether Wright's views were pervasive in the congregation.

If they weren't, then I don't believe he should be expected to distance himself from the whole community.

In any case, my point was about the time before Obama began running for president - back in 2001 and/or 2003
 
Are you really saying that he should give up on the whole of the church community because of something the pastor said?

I am. Either that or petition the church body to remove him just as a few other posters have stated because of things their pastor said on the puplit.

But what really bothers me is that he continued to have a long time following by his congregation and apparently (except Oprah who left that church) no one seems to bothered by his rants. In fact, they offer him applause.
 
I am. Either that or petition the church body to remove him just as a few other posters have stated because of things their pastor said on the puplit.

But what really bothers me is that he continued to have a long time following by his congregation and apparently (except Oprah who left that church) no one seems to bothered by his rants. In fact, they offer him applause.

Okay. Fair enough and a legitimate point.

I think those are valid courses of action and valid concerns about the congregation.

As I've said, I think that there is something here to be concerned about. It doesn't sit right with me.

But my political rhetoric-o-meter goes off when people condemn him for sticking around for "20" years and having Rev. Wright marry him and baptize his kids when those events took place before any of the problem sermons we've been made aware of even occurred.

That's why I wanted to try to explore the issue with a little more calm attitude and rational thought.

I'm still not sure I agree that the two incidents (2001 and 2003) if truly isolated in nature are enough to expect him to walk away if he already had a longstanding relationship and friendship with Wright.

But I can understand the point of view and the concerns raised by him NOT distancing himself from Wright a long time ago.
 
Okay. Fair enough and a legitimate point.

I think those are valid courses of action and valid concerns about the congregation.

As I've said, I think that there is something here to be concerned about. It doesn't sit right with me.

But my political rhetoric-o-meter goes off when people condemn him for sticking around for "20" years and having Rev. Wright marry him and baptize his kids when those events took place before any of the problem sermons we've been made aware of even occurred.

That's why I wanted to try to explore the issue with a little more calm attitude and rational thought.

I'm still not sure I agree that the two incidents (2001 and 2003) if truly isolated in nature are enough to expect him to walk away if he already had a longstanding relationship and friendship with Wright.

But I can understand the point of view and the concerns raised by him NOT distancing himself from Wright a long time ago.

I wouldn't expect him to walk away from a man he considers family. However, I would expect him to walk away from the church, and protest to the people that what Wright is preaching is wrong. (I'm not saying everything just the hate stuff).
I would expect that he discontinues his donations to the church, there are still ways he could financially help the community.
 
Youtube has several non-controversial sermon's, even the Audacity of Hope sermon. I was struck by it, it was inspiring.

Obama is on AC 360 this evening discussing some of the controversial statements he did hear, and the statements he did hear that were unpatrioticaly, he absolutely went to the Reverend.
 
I wouldn't expect him to walk away from a man he considers family. However, I would expect him to walk away from the church, and protest to the people that what Wright is preaching is wrong. (I'm not saying everything just the hate stuff).
I would expect that he discontinues his donations to the church, there are still ways he could financially help the community.

I agree! This is what I posted a few pages back (yes, I'm quoting myself :lmao:). I'm still shocked that Obama couldn't see this one coming. :sad2:

I think that the thing that amazes me the most out of all of this is how naive Obama and his wife and apparently all of his advisors were. Obama knew what a hateful person his minister was. If, as many of the libs have said, he felt like Wright was more like family than just a pastor, I still feel like he could have handled it differently considering that he is running for the POTUS. He should have said, "Dude, I love you and I understand why you might have some extreme views, but you have to know that being a part of these discussions could hurt my political career. I think that I need to distance myself from you at least publicly (as a member of the church)."

But he didn't and we all have to decide why we think that is. Personally, I believe he didn't leave because he believes the message and it wasn't at all shocking or offensive to him. Obviously, others feel differently. I guess we'll just have to see what the public as a whole believes (if he gets the nomination). I know that I was talking to a few of my neighbors today. They are moderates that usually vote Democrat and voted for Obama in the primary. They now have changed their opinion and wish that they could go back and change their vote. Perhaps their opinion will change again before November, but based on their comments I think it is highly unlikely.
 
Paranoia breeds fear, and it feeds on itself.

You're not paranoid if they're really out to get you.

If I ran from everyone in my lifetime who'd made a racist comment around me, I'd weigh a good 30 lbs. less than I do. If I distanced myself from everyone I know who'd said something crazy, something bigoted, or just plain something I wholeheartedly disagreed with -- well, I'd be sitting home alone tonight on the computer. Oh wait, I am!

You know what -- all you regular political Community Board folks need to have one big DISboard meetup and debate the heck out of each other. I'll buy the drinks! :)

p.s. Charade, I just wanted to apologize for calling you insensitive yesterday. I felt bad about that later.
 
Youtube has several non-controversial sermon's, even the Audacity of Hope sermon. I was struck by it, it was inspiring.

Obama is on AC 360 this evening discussing some of the controversial statements he did hear, and the statements he did hear that were unpatrioticaly, he absolutely went to the Reverend.


Well isn't that good to know that Obama is discussing the statements he heard. Wasn't it just days ago he claimed he didn't hear these statements? Does everyone forget that he denied ever hearing them in the first place. I guess he really is the same as the rest of the politicans. Its unfortunate I was hoping he'd be different.
 
For starters, the first time he took the Lord's name in vain and broke a Commandment, I'd be moving toward the parking lot. :eek: When he got on the HIV invention angle, I'd just think he was a ntucase like those people who claim the Holocaust never happened and that would have done the trick too. :sad2: Saying that we believe in White supremacy and Black inferiority more than we believe in God is blasphemy, plain and simple. :headache: That's three. There are more, but that should suffice.

Thanks for the response. I'm wondering if the first one is in reference to his God d..n America comments--in which case, I'm not sure he's taking the Lord's name in vain, as I think he's using "d..n" as a verb (incorrectly.) That was a sentiment shared by other church leaders who thought America's declining morals had brought this horror upon us. (Falwell and Robertson made similar comments after 9/11.) I don't agree with this philosophy, but I'm going to guess that's what Wright was trying to get at.

Holocaust deniers make me shake my head, too. And while I agree with you that the HIV invention idea seems crazy, remember that many people also thought the government deliberately blew up the levees during Katrina in New Orleans. Can't explain what would make people so paranoid...

Finally, thank you for your insight on his making blasphemous comments about racism/God. (If that's true, it is indeed horrid for a religious leader to say such things.) I think that was a point Obama strongly denounced--Wright's idea that America is still extremely racist. A thin analogy here, but I'd compare Wright's views to those of my parents. I often hear my parents' generation bemoaning the so-called loss of morals and values and courtesy among the youth. Then I see kids collecting for the animal shelter, shoveling neighbor's driveways without being asked, being kind to the special needs kids in their classroom--and I say, nope, there's nothing wrong with kids today. (Not to suggest there's no racism in American society, as I know it still exists. But I do not think it is as bad as Wright makes it out to be.)

Again, thank you for responding. I truly believe these conversations can only make us understand each other better. :)
 
Well isn't that good to know that Obama is discussing the statements he heard. Wasn't it just days ago he claimed he didn't hear these statements? Does everyone forget that he denied ever hearing them in the first place. I guess he really is the same as the rest of the politicans. Its unfortunate I was hoping he'd be different.

No, he never said he didn't hear controversial statements.... you might like to twist his words... I believe he said he never heard these incendiary comments and he still maintains that, but really good try...
 
No, he never said he didn't hear controversial statements.... you might like to twist his words... I believe he said he never heard these incendiary comments and he still maintains that, but really good try...


Easy, I made a mistake but see I'm here admitting it :)
Thanks for stting me straight.
BTW just because I don't advertise it like you, I was a supporter.
 
No, he never said he didn't hear controversial statements.... you might like to twist his words... I believe he said he never heard these incendiary comments and he still maintains that, but really good try...

I thought I read that too - see Maureen Dowd's column - did she get it wrong?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/opinion/19dowd.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

In many ways, Barack Obama’s speech on race was momentous and edifying.

You could tell it was personal, that he had worked hard on it, all weekend and into the wee hours Tuesday. Overriding aides who objected to putting race center stage, he addressed a painful, difficult subject straightforwardly with a subtlety and decency rare in American politics.

Certainly, Senator Obama was exercising sophisticated damage-control on his problem with Jeremiad Wright. But he did not pander as Mitt Romney did with his very challenging speech about Mormonism, or market-test his own convictions, as most politicians do.

Unlike what the Clintons did to Lani Guinier, responding to her radical racial ideas by throwing her under the bus, Obama went to great pains to honor the human dimension of his relationship with his politically threatening “old uncle,” as he calls him.

Displaying his multihued, crazy-quilted DNA, he talked about cringing when he heard the white grandmother who raised him use racial stereotypes and confess her fear of passing black men on the street.

He tried to shine a light on that clannish place where grudges and grievances flourish. After racing from race for a year, he plowed in and took a stab at showing blacks what white resentment felt like and whites what black resentment felt like.

(He was spot-on about my tribe of working-class Irish, the ones who have helped break his winning streak in New Hampshire and Ohio, and may do so in Pennsylvania.)

He rightly struck back at right-wing hysteria-mongers. “Talk-show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism,” he said, “while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.”

Obama’s warning about race in America was redolent of Eugene O’Neill’s observation about Ireland: “There is no present or future,” O’Neill said, “only the past happening over and over again.”

His speech was pitched to superdelegates queasy about his spiritual guide’s Malcolm X-ism, the virulent racial pride, the separatism, the deep suspicion of America and the white man — the very things that Obama’s “post-racial” identity was supposed to have transcended.

The candidate may have staunched the bleeding, but he did not heal the wounds. His naïve and willful refusal to come to terms earlier with the Rev. Wright’s anti-American, anti-white and pro-Farrakhan sentiments — echoing his naïve and willful refusal to come to terms earlier with the ramifications of his friendship with sleazy fund-raiser Tony Rezko — will not be forgotten because of one unforgettable speech.

But then, the most intriguing thing about the speech in the National Constitution Center here, near the statues of the founding fathers who signed the document declaring that “all men are created equal,” was not even the part about black and white. It was the new color that Obama unexpectedly wore: gray.

The black and white plaguing the Obama camp was not only about skin color. Facing up to his dubious behavior toward his explosive friends, he had his first rude introduction in his political career to ambivalence, ambiguity and complexity.

Obama did not surrender his pedestal willingly. But he was finally confronted by a problem that neither his charm nor his grandiosity would solve.

He now admits that he had heard the Rev. Wright make “controversial” remarks in church, and that he had a “lapse of judgment” when he let the much-investigated Rezko curry favor by buying the plot of land next to his and selling a slice back so Obama could have a bigger yard. Newly alert to the perils of not seeming patriotic enough, he ended a speech in Pennsylvania the other morning with “God bless America!”

A little disenchantment with Obama could turn out to be a good thing. Too much idealism can blind a leader to reality as surely as too much ideology can.

Up until now, Obama and his worshipers have set it up so that he must be so admirable and ideal and perfect and everything we’ve ever wanted that any kind of blemish — even a parking ticket — was regarded as a major failing.

With the Clintons, we expect them to be cheesy on ethics, so no one is ever surprised when they are.

But Saint Obama played the politics of character to an absurd extent. For 14 months, his argument for leading the world has been himself — his exquisitely globalized self.

He should be congratulated on the disappearance of the pedestal. Leaders don’t need to be messiahs.

Gray is a welcome relief from black and white.
 
How do you know this? Can you tell me that a minority can walk into an all white church in an all white town and be embraced by the congregation. I seriously think not!

You don't know if churches preach hate or not because you don't know what go on in "all" churches across america. People are basing your judgments on a video and running with it.

As I said before, if any of you can honestly say you attended Obama's church and heard racist preaching for 20 years or more at every sermon, please do tell! I want to hear concrete evidence you have!

Yes, they could here. I live in a pretty white area and it's not because we're racist, it's simply a matter of who has settled here. I am not saying that there aren't churches throughout the country that do preach hate, for example, to homosexuals, but it is highly misleading to say hate is what is being preached at every church every Sunday morning. Saying homosexuality is wrong, a fundamental belief of the church, is not the same as preaching hate.
 
What I meant is that "Issues like homosexuality, abortion and stem cell research " are NOT inherently religious issues. They are issues that SOME religions teach are wrong. But not all religions and not even "most religions" feel that they are wrong. Sorry if I was unclear.

I don't know about stem cell research or abortion but I know most religions see hmosexuality as wrong...Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism etc...
 

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