Obama supporters! - A positive place to talk about his campaign

[chris1gill]

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...x?guid={2BCC67E7-61EA-4C6A-9BAD-3616CF38DC54}
Whether her supporters want to accept it or not, Clinton has stayed alive by employing many of the divisive tactics of Karl Rove, who masterminded George W. Bush's presidential victories. The theme is simple: Attack and use any method to make your point as forcefully as possible. Be shameless. Look strong. Show no fear.

(But, of course, being shameless isn't considered a character plus for most people.)

But wait, didn't they call Obama out on his Karl Rovian style tactics??? What? You mean it's the other way around, no, no, that just can NOT be.... that would be much too, what is it?? CLINTONIAN like!

 

[chris1gill]

I guess I didn't really pay attention, but the primary for PA is on April 22? I just can't imagine anything good from yet another month of back and forth....meanwhile McCain is putting his team for the national election together.

Yes, five long weeks to go, and then Indiana & N. Carolina on May 2nd....

 

[NewJersey]

But wait, didn't they call Obama out on his Karl Rovian style tactics??? What? You mean it's the other way around, no, no, that just can NOT be.... that would be much too, what is it?? CLINTONIAN like!

I love that her campaign is calling Obama's questions about her tax returns, Clinton library donations, and ear marks "politics as usual." Yes, shame on the American people for wanting transparency.

 

[NewJersey]

My O'Bama shirt was here when I got home!!!

 

[lilyv]

My O'Bama shirt was here when I got home!!!

Hooray!

 

[lilyv]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/17/776838.aspx
"First Read has obtained a letter from Florida Democratic Party chair Karen Thurman, in which she says there won't be a re-vote in her state. This seems to mean: 1) that Florida's delegates won't be seated; 2) that they will, via a vote from the credentials committee; or 3) that there will be some sort of compromise (like counting delegates by half).

"Thousands of people responded. We spent the weekend reviewing your messages, and while your reasons vary widely, the consensus is clear: Florida doesn't want to vote again," Thurman writes. "So we won't."

 

[Soubrette]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/17/776838.aspx
"First Read has obtained a letter from Florida Democratic Party chair Karen Thurman, in which she says there won't be a re-vote in her state. This seems to mean: 1) that Florida's delegates won't be seated; 2) that they will, via a vote from the credentials committee; or 3) that there will be some sort of compromise (like counting delegates by half).

"Thousands of people responded. We spent the weekend reviewing your messages, and while your reasons vary widely, the consensus is clear: Florida doesn't want to vote again," Thurman writes. "So we won't."

Thank goodness. That was a disaster waiting to happen, hanging chads or not . I wonder if Michigan will go the same way?

 

[NewJersey]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/17/776838.aspx
"First Read has obtained a letter from Florida Democratic Party chair Karen Thurman, in which she says there won't be a re-vote in her state. This seems to mean: 1) that Florida's delegates won't be seated; 2) that they will, via a vote from the credentials committee; or 3) that there will be some sort of compromise (like counting delegates by half).

"Thousands of people responded. We spent the weekend reviewing your messages, and while your reasons vary widely, the consensus is clear: Florida doesn't want to vote again," Thurman writes. "So we won't."

I wonder why FL is so opposed to it when MI is all for it?

 

[lilyv]

I wonder why FL is so opposed to it when MI is all for it?

Part of it has to do with their wacky election laws...can't do this, can't do that...especially with a mail in vote. Overall, I think they'll probably just split the delegates. End result: Just fine for Obama. He keeps slowly gaining delegates.
She won't have a windfall.

 

[NewJersey]

Part of it has to do with their wacky election laws...can't do this, can't do that...especially with a mail in vote. Overall, I think they'll probably just split the delegates. End result: Just fine for Obama. He keeps slowly gaining delegates.
She won't have a windfall.

Good point - Not getting FL makes it even harder for her to overtake him in delegates. There is no way the party wants the pledged delegate winner overturned. Talk about political suicide.

Can the Independents vote in MI?

 

[NewJersey]

From Politico:

Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor emails with an attack on Clinton and a promise to review the Michigan plan:

Considering the fact that Senator Clinton is currently trying to prevent and delay votes in Texas from being counted because she didn't like the outcome, it's pretty apparent that the Clinton campaign’s views on voting are dependent on their own political interest. Hillary Clinton herself said in January that the Michigan primary “didn’t count for anything.” Now, she is cynically trying to change the rules at the eleventh hour for her own benefit.

We received a very complex proposal for Michigan re-vote legislation today and are reviewing it to make sure that any solution for Michigan is fair and practical. We continue to believe a fair seating of the delegation deserves strong consideration.”

and

Texas Dems won't delay count for Clinton

The chairman of the Texas Democratic Party, Boyd Richie, denies the Clinton campaign's request to postpone their delegate counting until Clinton supporters' complaints can be adjudicated:

The overwhelming majority of problems reported in Texas do not affect the legitimacy of delegate allocation....

For that reason, the Texas Democratic Party will not do as suggested by one campaign and circumvent Party rules to set up an unnecessary, ad hoc "verification" process that could effectively disqualify delegates selected at their precinct conventions after the fact. The Party has never stated any intention to set up a verification process of this nature because Party rules already provide for "verification" through our credentials process. Candidates who wish to disqualify delegates must pursue formal challenges based on evidence filed appropriately in accordance with our party's rules.
It's a night of good news from the states for Obama.

Riche's full statement after the jump.

 

[NewJersey]

Just back from the gym where I proudly displayed my O'Bama St. Patty's Day tshirt.

 

[NewJersey]

From Politico, it seems the MI re-do would need a supermajority approval by the Republican led State Senate there:

State Senator Cameron Brown (above), the GOP vice-chair of the relevant committee, just put out a press release that could either signal implacable Republican hostility or the expectation that the state GOP may need to be bought off to consider helping the Democrats untangle their mess:

Citing a lofty price tag for taxpayers, logistical problems for elections officials and clerks, and the invalidation of nearly 600,000 votes, Sen. Cameron S. Brown is against a proposed second Democratic election in Michigan.

 

[Honu]

Wow! Look at the stats from Wiki for today. We're up by 170 pledged delegates.

PLEDGED DELEGATES
Hillary Clinton – 1,249.5
Barack Obama – 1,419.5


PLEDGED & SUPERS
Hillary Clinton – 1,504.5 (519.5 short)
Barack Obama – 1,640.5 (383.5 short)

 

[chris1gill]

I wonder why FL is so opposed to it when MI is all for it?

Tim, first, congratulations on getting your shirt!!!

I think there are more than a few reasons Florida is not for a new primary. First, the bill was introduced by a Democrat, but the majority of the legislators and governor are Republican, the Governor refused a new primary outright. Apparently Florida is missing most of it's voting machines. In this bill that was passed that moved the date was a proposal for changing to all new machines, so the machines they had are already gone and thus that leaves a mail in or write in process. Well, they could not verify the signatures ie: your kid could fill the thing out & the State would never be the wiser... it was a real problem.

I thought it sounded like Michigan had a good proposal that Obama was reviewing, but a previous post indicated that Republicans in their legislature were trying to buck the new primary. Personally I hope at least Michigan gets their Primary.

Actually, I think the DNC rules should have been followed and they should have followed their own rules but we know that's not going to happen, those delegates will be seated in one way or another. If Michigan can come up with a plan approved by the DNC though it doesn't sound like it's too late.

 

[chris1gill]

Wow! Look at the stats from Wiki for today. We're up by 170 pledged delegates.

PLEDGED DELEGATES
Hillary Clinton – 1,249.5
Barack Obama – 1,419.5


PLEDGED & SUPERS
Hillary Clinton – 1,504.5 (519.5 short)
Barack Obama – 1,640.5 (383.5 short)

Honu, I'm not sure where wiki is getting their data, but CNN is showing a difference of 139 pledged delegates, although I prefer your number better

 

[WildernessBride]

My O'Bama shirt was here when I got home!!!

Yeah!!!

 

[NewJersey]

Tim, first, congratulations on getting your shirt!!!

I think there are more than a few reasons Florida is not for a new primary. First, the bill was introduced by a Democrat, but the majority of the legislators and governor are Republican, the Governor refused a new primary outright. Apparently Florida is missing most of it's voting machines. In this bill that was passed that moved the date was a proposal for changing to all new machines, so the machines they had are already gone and thus that leaves a mail in or write in process. Well, they could not verify the signatures ie: your kid could fill the thing out & the State would never be the wiser... it was a real problem.

I thought it sounded like Michigan had a good proposal that Obama was reviewing, but a previous post indicated that Republicans in their legislature were trying to buck the new primary. Personally I hope at least Michigan gets their Primary.

Actually, I think the DNC rules should have been followed and they should have followed their own rules but we know that's not going to happen, those delegates will be seated in one way or another. If Michigan can come up with a plan approved by the DNC though it doesn't sound like it's too late.

Ah, that makes sense - thanks for the clarification. It seems like FL is now in the "seat them as is or don't seat them at all." Sorry, no can do - there was not a proper campaign there so why should they be seated?

I hope something can be resolved about MI, in a fair way to both candidates.

 

[NewJersey]

Honu, I'm not sure where wiki is getting their data, but CNN is showing a difference of 139 pledged delegates, although I prefer your number better

The Clinton News Network always shows a more favorable number for Clinton.


I can't wait for the speech today.

 

[lilyv]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/kos-clinton-doe.html

Political punch-good analysis of Kos...and where he stands on the election. It is sad that Clinton has deliberately selected such a divisive track.

""First of all, the only path to victory for Clinton is via coup by super delegate. She knows this. That's why there's all the talk about poaching pledged delegates and spinning uncertainty around Michigan and Florida, and laying the case for super delegates to discard the popular will and stage a coup. Yet a coup by super delegate would sunder the party in civil war. Clinton knows this, it's her only path to victory, and she doesn't care. She is willing -- nay, eager to split the party apart in her mad pursuit of power. If the situations were reversed, and Obama was lagging in the delegates, popular vote, states won, money raised, and every other reasonable measure, then I'd feel the same way about Obama. (I pulled the plug early on Dean in 2004.) But that's not the case.

"It is Clinton, with no reasonable chance of victory, who is fomenting civil war in order to overturn the will of the Democratic electorate. As such, as far as I'm concerned, she doesn't deserve 'fairness' on this site. .."