Obama Seeks $634 Billion for Health Care

I went back and read that post again. Faye, I am not generally a person to take offense and you obviously are:



But I feel that I must point out to you that youu are so totally wrong when you keep saying things like



I know plenty of Canadians that would be very happy receiving the superior care that is available in the U.S. In fact all you have to do is google and you will find plenty of examples of Canadians paying out of pocket because they cannot get the care that they need in Canada in a timely manner.

You quite often come on here and state that you speak for many Canadians in a very broad view. The fact is that you have a conservative government in place and therefore not ALL Canadian share the same political viewpoint that you have. In fact, I must say that many do not.

And the contrary is true as well! The millions of americans without health insurance would probably be very happy to have the superior care that is available in Canada ( Whitin 24 hours of entering the emergency of an hospital 50 kl from Montreal because she did not feel good , my mother in law had a pacemaker installed in one of the best hospital in Montreal. She was shipped by ambulance and brought back to her home hospital)

And about our conservative governement, they are a minority governement with only 46% of votes, the other 54% percent whent to progressive and liberal parties ( Liberal ,Greens, Bloc Quebecois, New democratic), so a lot more people want to keep our health care systhem than want to get rid of it !
 
See, Faye, I am not saying that the Canadian medical system is terrible, I am saying it is flawed, like every system. The situation you quoted is terrible but I can assure you that I would be able to google and find the exact same scenario take place in Canada or GB. No system is perfect.

I had a very biased view like yours before I actually got to work in both systems. Truth be told, I had a very biased opinion on the US overall. I heard the horror stories, just like you, and felt so superior and smug that we were doing a much better job. But the fact is that Canada does an adequate to good job for everyone and that is it. The US does a superb job for whomever gets care. The vast majority of people in the States have access to medical care. There are an unfortunate few that have difficulty getting insurance, yes, but why not fix that problem and not throw the whole system out just because of that.

What I AM saying is that switching to a socialized medicine system would not be popular here in the States. People are used to the quality of medical care and all the bells and whistles that come along with it down here and it would be a shock to their system to change it. Something needs to be done but I wouldn't want it to be the Canadian system.

Canada is a different country and what works up there doesn't necessarily work down here. BTW, I no longer have that smug and superior attitude because I have learned that everything that I was taught about the States wasn't necessarily true. You've got to live here to understand that.

I bolded a couple of statements because I believe that is exactly what I said. We know it isn't perfect. We aren't pretending that it is. I just believe that having access to health care is a basic right and has no business being tied to your employment. I also believe that health care cannot and should not be managed for profit.

I get upset because people without UHC will criticize our system because of long waits in the emergency room or to see specialists, etc, but in their own country, for the uninsured or under insured, there are also long waits and maybe no access to specialists (unless they can pay for the treatment). As far as I can see, the people who have great insurance are generally pleased with health care, at least until their insurer denies claims for medicine or treatment and they have to pay the bill themselves. There is a lot to be said for never having to worry about whether you can afford to take you sick child to the doctor.
 
I went back and read that post again. Faye, I am not generally a person to take offense and you obviously are:



But I feel that I must point out to you that youu are so totally wrong when you keep saying things like



I know plenty of Canadians that would be very happy receiving the superior care that is available in the U.S. In fact all you have to do is google and you will find plenty of examples of Canadians paying out of pocket because they cannot get the care that they need in Canada in a timely manner.

You quite often come on here and state that you speak for many Canadians in a very broad view. The fact is that you have a conservative government in place and therefore not ALL Canadian share the same political viewpoint that you have. In fact, I must say that many do not.

I am sure everyone would like better care...but would they want to do away with the system we have now and go to self-insured or employer sponsored For-Profit health care system?

Really, at the end of the day, I don't care what Americans do about their health care. It's none of my business. I just wish they would stop slagging ours. I manage to stay out of these threads until somebody says "Canada" and then I get carried away. Some Americans are very happy with the system the way it is (those who have good insurance that they can afford) and some have no coverage, crappy coverage or are paying outrageous premiums and they would like it to change. Some Canadians have excellent services available to them (like me) and others in more rural areas may experience long waits for specialists or elective treatments. Certainly, there are many flaws in both systems.

Ideally what I would like to see in Canada is a private/public health care hybrid. A "two-tiered" system where those with the money and inclination could pay out of pocket for faster treatment, or wait for the treatment through the public health care system. I think the only way it would work would be for the government to mandate pricing to be equal regardless of which "tier" you access, meaning that a private clinic could only charge the same as they would receive from the provincial health plan. With identical cost for both UHC users and cash patients, you wouldn't necessarily see the "best and the brightest" all going into private clinics to make more money. The benefit would be that those who wanted to pay cash would be move out of the waiting rooms and treatment would ultimately be faster for everyone. I think this is similar to the British system.
 
I can't speak for Diane, I can only speak from my perspective as a Canadian. I know that you, as a health professional, and a Canadian, have a unique perspective on our health care system. The misconception I think comes from the idea that Canadians (or Brits) think that UHC is perfect, while nothing could be farther than the truth. We all understand that this system could be vastly improved in many areas but I don't believe for a second that any Canadian would support any movement to replace it with American style medicine.

Where I get offended is when people (you included) point out all the flaws and horror stories of the Canadian system, but conveniently fail to mention that the same, and worse, is going on in America. Patients have died in American waiting rooms, too. Remember the frantic husband who was calling 911 for an ambulance while his wife lay dying IN THE HOSPITAL WAITING AREA???? Overcrowding, long waits, and shoddy medical treatment happens everywhere, not just in the country's with UHC.

I am fortunate enough to live in a major centre and my family and I enjoy excellent health care. Just last week I was feeling "funny", with some pain in my back and chest. I went to the local urgent care clinic (it was after hours) and with 20 mins of walking in the door I was in a bed having an ECG to rule out heart attack. I also had an x-ray. We aren't pretending that UHC is perfect, but to portray it as being crap while everything is sunshine and rainbows south of the border is disingenuous, to say the least.

I am equally sure that the standard of American health care is second to none...for those who can afford it. The true value in UHC lies in the "cradle to grave" philosophy which allows all Canadians to receive medical treatment, including preventative care, without having to worry about how they are going to pay for it. From what I understand, the largest strain on the American health care systems comes from uninsured, or underinsured patients overburdening the emergency care facilities because they can't afford to see a doctor until it becomes an emergency situation where they will be guaranteed treatment at the hospital. I know that I can see my doctor anytime I like, or seek the services of an urgent care facility as I see fit. I don't have to wait until I can afford it or until it becomes catastrophic.

Thanks, you said it much better than I could! :thumbsup2

See, that is where OUR system falls down. There needs to be insurance available to people that are unable to get conventional insurance, kinda like flood insurance that only the gov't will sponsor, to cover people like you.

I am well aware of the problems in our system, nothing is perfect and there will always be loopholes that people fall through. How about we keep the system we have and work on fixing the areas that are problematic. That would make everyone happy, yes?

Usually people can get insurance but at increased prices. How did you lose your insurance in the first place? I didn't think that they are able just to drop you because of a medical problem.

With regards to cancer treatments, there are places that will treat you, just not every hospital. Cook county hospital is just one example in Chicago.



But they still will have wards. Here they have private rooms or for the very unfortunate semi private rooms, a ward would throw people into a tizzy. I am not saying wards are bad, in fact for nurses they are much more convenient just that it wouldn't fly here. Remember that we are one of how many countries? that haven't embraced the metric system. Change comes slowly if at all.

BTW I kinda agree with the Rolls Royce but I tried to pick a car that was at least related to GB, though now I don't know who builds it. How about we replace that analogy with a Lexus, they are pretty reliable.;)

BTW where abouts in Scotland are you if you don't mind. I've got family in the Glasgow area.

They are moving towards all single rooms, or double rooms at most, new build hospitals have these, it takes a while converting older buildings.

We stay just south of Glasgow, on the coast! :goodvibes But our heart belongs in WDW!

Again, a misconception. Please read my above post. What happened to that man and his wife was appauling and that's why it made the news. It certainly wasn't something of the ordinary here so pointing to it is really pretty useless.

I'm sure there are horror stories in every system, what I like about the NHS is the fact I never need to worry about whether my insurance will cover any treatment I require, or worrying about bankrupty after treatment.

Di x
 
I am sure everyone would like better care...but would they want to do away with the system we have now and go to self-insured or employer sponsored For-Profit health care system?

Really, at the end of the day, I don't care what Americans do about their health care. It's none of my business. I just wish they would stop slagging ours. I manage to stay out of these threads until somebody says "Canada" and then I get carried away. Some Americans are very happy with the system the way it is (those who have good insurance that they can afford) and some have no coverage, crappy coverage or are paying outrageous premiums and they would like it to change. Some Canadians have excellent services available to them (like me) and others in more rural areas may experience long waits for specialists or elective treatments. Certainly, there are many flaws in both systems.

Ideally what I would like to see in Canada is a private/public health care hybrid. A "two-tiered" system where those with the money and inclination could pay out of pocket for faster treatment, or wait for the treatment through the public health care system. I think the only way it would work would be for the government to mandate pricing to be equal regardless of which "tier" you access, meaning that a private clinic could only charge the same as they would receive from the provincial health plan. With identical cost for both UHC users and cash patients, you wouldn't necessarily see the "best and the brightest" all going into private clinics to make more money. The benefit would be that those who wanted to pay cash would be move out of the waiting rooms and treatment would ultimately be faster for everyone. I think this is similar to the British system.





Bingo!
 
I am sure everyone would like better care...but would they want to do away with the system we have now and go to self-insured or employer sponsored For-Profit health care system?

Really, at the end of the day, I don't care what Americans do about their health care. It's none of my business. I just wish they would stop slagging ours. I manage to stay out of these threads until somebody says "Canada" and then I get carried away. Some Americans are very happy with the system the way it is (those who have good insurance that they can afford) and some have no coverage, crappy coverage or are paying outrageous premiums and they would like it to change. Some Canadians have excellent services available to them (like me) and others in more rural areas may experience long waits for specialists or elective treatments. Certainly, there are many flaws in both systems.

Ideally what I would like to see in Canada is a private/public health care hybrid. A "two-tiered" system where those with the money and inclination could pay out of pocket for faster treatment, or wait for the treatment through the public health care system. I think the only way it would work would be for the government to mandate pricing to be equal regardless of which "tier" you access, meaning that a private clinic could only charge the same as they would receive from the provincial health plan. With identical cost for both UHC users and cash patients, you wouldn't necessarily see the "best and the brightest" all going into private clinics to make more money. The benefit would be that those who wanted to pay cash would be move out of the waiting rooms and treatment would ultimately be faster for everyone. I think this is similar to the British system.

That's pretty much the truth. NHS Medics work privately to make some extra cash, but the NHS is where the groundbreaking/innovative treatment breakthroughs are made, so if you want to make your name as a clinician you work for the NHS. Our private hospitals tend to be for more 'routine' elective cases - many times we've had private patients transferred to NHS units if complications develop, or they need more specialised treatment.

Di x
 
It's not a misconception. If they have no insurance they are not going to get preventative care. They may get treated at the emergency room, but they aren't going to get the ongoing treatment that they may need.



You really don't know what you're talking about. So it's difficult to debate this with you.
 
You really don't know what you're talking about. So it's difficult to debate this with you.

I'm not interested in debating with you. You are quite right...I have no first hand knowledge of the American system of health care.

What I do have are thousands of archived DISboard posts (available with the "Search" function) from Americans discussing their lack of insurance, their inability to be insured due to pre-existing conditions, outrageous insurance premiums, staggering medical bills from either not being insured, being under insured or having claims denied by their "good" insurance.

They also talk about not being able to see some doctors of their choice because they are "out of system" and some report having to seek emergency treatment for chronic conditions because they have no insurance and are uninsurable because of the existing condition, and they have nowhere to go for ongoing treatment.

I know that you have read some of those threads. You've probably posted on a few of them. Should I assume that when Americans on these boards tell horror stories about their own medical and/or insurance experiences that they are not true? If somebody tells me that the can't get insurance and can't afford to pay out of pocket for preventative care, I believe them. Maybe I'm just gullible.
 
I'm not interested in debating with you. You are quite right...I have no first hand knowledge of the American system of health care.

What I do have are thousands of archived DISboard posts (available with the "Search" function) from Americans discussing their lack of insurance, their inability to be insured due to pre-existing conditions, outrageous insurance premiums, staggering medical bills from either not being insured, being under insured or having claims denied by their "good" insurance.

They also talk about not being able to see some doctors of their choice because they are "out of system" and some report having to seek emergency treatment for chronic conditions because they have no insurance and are uninsurable because of the existing condition, and they have nowhere to go for ongoing treatment.

I know that you have read some of those threads. You've probably posted on a few of them. Should I assume that when Americans on these boards tell horror stories about their own medical and/or insurance experiences that they are not true? If somebody tells me that the can't get insurance and can't afford to pay out of pocket for preventative care, I believe them. Maybe I'm just gullible.



I'm sure you have read anectdotal responses from many dissatisfied with their medical care. But using a message board for a basis of information and then using that info to state your opinion doesn't make sense. You live in another country. You have experience about THAT country. To say you know about ours based on info from a message board is probably not wise. I am a nurse and have been for 25years. I have practiced in many states and I know first hand that in this country for the most part, if you need something , you get it. Now you may have a HMO that stipulates what network you're in and you may not like your choice but usually that was the choice you made. It's still probably better than what most countries have. I really don't know that much about Canada's health care other than what I've been told by my husbands coworkers who are from Canada and from what I've read. Personally, I'm glad we don't have your system, and as such I am against univeraly health care for us. I don't think our system is perfect but I don't want the government any more involved than it is. But because I'm not Canadain and have no experience with your system I would never PRESUME to come on a Canadian message board and try to say what is better. So I apologize if I offended you , but by putting yourself out ther in that say you're sort of asking for it. jmho.
 
I'm sure you have read anectdotal responses from many dissatisfied with their medical care. But using a message board for a basis of information and then using that info to state your opinion doesn't make sense. You live in another country. You have experience about THAT country. To say you know about ours based on info from a message board is probably not wise. I am a nurse and have been for 25years. I have practiced in many states and I know first hand that in this country for the most part, if you need something , you get it. Now you may have a HMO that stipulates what network you're in and you may not like your choice but usually that was the choice you made. It's still probably better than what most countries have. I really don't know that much about Canada's health care other than what I've been told by my husbands coworkers who are from Canada and from what I've read. Personally, I'm glad we don't have your system, and as such I am against univeraly health care for us. I don't think our system is perfect but I don't want the government any more involved than it is. But because I'm not Canadain and have no experience with your system I would never PRESUME to come on a Canadian message board and try to say what is better. So I apologize if I offended you , but by putting yourself out ther in that say you're sort of asking for it. jmho.

It sounds like you have done exactly what you accused me off: Using second hand information to form an opinion of a system you admittedly know nothing about. You believe what your husband's co-workers and what you've read. I believe what thousands of Americans have posted on Disboard threads, as well as what I have read in other magazine and news articles, and seen or heard on the news reports on the American TV stations I watch regularily.

I don't recall saying the Canadian system is better. I said it wasn't perfect, had flaws, could be vastly improved. My issue on this thread was, and always has been that when Americans talk about changing their health system somebody invariably points to the Canadian and British models and says "We don't want that because of XYZ...", and XYZ is always a problem that is prevalent in their own system already, for at least a segment of the population. Don't slag my system for the having the same problems yours has and hold that up as a reason why my system sucks.
 
It sounds like you have done exactly what you accused me off: Using second hand information to form an opinion of a system you admittedly know nothing about. You believe what your husband's co-workers and what you've read. I believe what thousands of Americans have posted on Disboard threads, as well as what I have read in other magazine and news articles, and seen or heard on the news reports on the American TV stations I watch regularily.

I don't recall saying the Canadian system is better. I said it wasn't perfect, had flaws, could be vastly improved. My issue on this thread was, and always has been that when Americans talk about changing their health system somebody invariably points to the Canadian and British models and says "We don't want that because of XYZ...", and XYZ is always a problem that is prevalent in their own system already, for at least a segment of the population. Don't slag my system for the having the same problems yours has and hold that up as a reason why my system sucks.



Again, I said all i have to go on is what I read and was told. I did not seek out a Canadian message board and say our system was better. :You did, you may want to go back to your previous posts and reread them. I hardly think you've taken the time to read THOUSANDS of posts about our health care here on the Dis. If you have then wow you have a lot of time on your hands. lol. Just kidding. Look I'm glad you're happy with your system, but I guess because I'm in health care and grew up as a military child who received government sponsered healthcare I am personally against it for THIS country, and afterall that is what this thread was about. If fellow Disers from other coutries don't want to see our opinions about things then perhaps a thread on American politics isn't for you....just sayin.
 
Again, I said all i have to go on is what I read and was told. I did not seek out a Canadian message board and say our system was better. :You did, you may want to go back to your previous posts and reread them. I hardly think you've taken the time to read THOUSANDS of posts about our health care here on the Dis. If you have then wow you have a lot of time on your hands. lol. Just kidding. Look I'm glad you're happy with your system, but I guess because I'm in health care and grew up as a military child who received government sponsered healthcare I am personally against it for THIS country, and afterall that is what this thread was about. If fellow Disers from other coutries don't want to see our opinions about things then perhaps a thread on American politics isn't for you....just sayin.

I wasn't aware that DISboards was only available to Americans. If you don't want to see opinions from fellow Disers from countries other than America, perhaps you shouldn't read threads posted on the World Wide Web.

ETA: I took your advice and re-read the 7 posts I had in this thread. In none of them did I ever say the Canadian system was "better". I believe I was remarkably consistent in my message which was "stop criticising ours for the same problems yours has".
 
We had an update at work yesterday as far as how medicare cuts went and how it now affects our company. I had no idea the dollar amount from medicare was as high as it was! So right off the top...one unit in our hospital is being closed. Three other hospitals around us offer the same services, so it won't be that the community is left without this service. No OT has been in place a number of months already. Let's hope they just don't cut hours! All catering for meetings, luncheons, even physicians is cut immediately to nothing. And watch those office supplies. Hey, I would bring my own supplies to work if it helps us all keep our jobs. This is only the immediate effects. They're trying to avoid laying off employees. We'll see how this goes. :(
 
I wasn't aware that DISboards was only available to Americans. If you don't want to see opinions from fellow Disers from countries other than America, perhaps you shouldn't read threads posted on the World Wide Web.

Don't mis-quote me, no need to get your panties in a knot. I said maybe you shouldn't respond to a THREAD about American politics if you're going to get offended.
 
Facts on Health Insurance Coverage :
Facts on Health Insurance Coverage


Introduction

Most Americans have health insurance through their employers. But, employment is no longer a guarantee of health insurance coverage.

As America continues to move from a manufacturing-based economy to a service economy, and employee working patterns continue to evolve, health insurance coverage has become less stable. The service sector offers less access to health insurance than its manufacturing counterparts. Further, an increasing reliance on part-time and contract workers who are not eligible for coverage means fewer workers have access to employer-sponsored health insurance.

Due to rising health insurance premiums, many small employers cannot afford to offer health benefits. Companies that do offer health insurance, often require employees to contribute a larger share toward their coverage. As a result, an increasing number of Americans have opted not to take advantage of job-based health insurance because they cannot afford it.

Who are Who are the uninsured?


Nearly 46 million Americans, or 18 percent of the population under the age of 65, were without health insurance in 2007, the latest government data available.{/B]

The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 8 million people since 2000.

The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.

The increase in the number of uninsured in 2006 was focused among working age adults. The percentage of working adults (18 to 64) who had no health coverage climbed from 19.7 percent in 2005 to 20.2 percent in 2006. Nearly 1.3 million full-time workers lost their health insurance in 2006.
Nearly 90 million people – about one-third of the population below the age of 65 spent a portion of either 2006 or 2007 without health coverage.

Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families – almost 70 percent from families with one or more full-time workers and 11 percent from families with part-time workers.
The percentage of people (workers and dependents) with employment-based health insurance has dropped from 70 percent in 1987 to 62 percent in 2007. This is the lowest level of employment-based insurance coverage in more than a decade.


In 2005, nearly 15 percent of employees had no employer-sponsored health coverage available to them, either through their own job or through a family member.

In 2007, 37 million workers were uninsured because not all businesses offer health benefits, not all workers qualify for coverage and many employees cannot afford their share of the health insurance premium even when coverage is at their fingertips.

The number of uninsured children in 2007 was 8.1 million – or 10.7 percent of all children in the U.S.
Young adults (18-to-24 years old) remained the least likely of any age group to have health insurance in 2007 – 28.1 percent of this group did not have health insurance.
The percentage and the number of uninsured Hispanics increased to 32.1 percent and 15 million in 2007.

Nearly 40 percent of the uninsured population reside in households that earn $50,000 or more. A growing number of middle-income families cannot afford health insurance payments even when coverage is offered by their employers.

Why is the number of uninsured people increasing?


Millions of workers don’t have the opportunity to get health coverage. A third of firms in the U.S. did not offer coverage in 2007.
Nearly two-fifths (38 percent) of all workers are employed in smaller businesses, where less than two-thirds of firms now offer health benefits to their employees.
It is estimated that 266,000 companies dropped their health coverage between 2000-2005 and 90 percent of those firms have less than 25 employees.

Rapidly rising health insurance premiums are the main reason cited by all small firms for not offering coverage.

Health insurance premiums are rising at extraordinary rates. The average annual increase in inflation has been 2.5 percent while health insurance premiums for small firms have escalated an average of 12 percent annually.

Even if employees are offered coverage on the job, they can’t always afford their portion of the premium. Employee spending for health insurance coverage (employee’s share of family coverage) has increased 120 percent between 2000 and 2006.

Losing a job, or quitting voluntarily, can mean losing affordable coverage – not only for the worker but also for their entire family. Only seven (7) percent of the unemployed can afford to pay for COBRA health insurance – the continuation of group coverage offered by their former employers. Premiums for this coverage average almost $700 a month for family coverage and $250 for individual coverage, a very high price given the average $1,100 monthly unemployment check.


Coverage is unstable during life’s transitions. A person’s link to employer-sponsored coverage can also be cut by a change from full-time to part-time work, or self-employment, retirement or divorce.

How does being uninsured harm individuals and families?


Lack of insurance compromises the health of the uninsured because they receive less preventive care, are diagnosed at more advanced disease stages, and once diagnosed, tend to receive less therapeutic care and have higher mortality rates than insured individuals.

Regardless of age, race, ethnicity, income or health status, uninsured children were much less likely to have received a well-child checkup within the past year. One study shows that nearly 50 percent of uninsured children did not receive a checkup in 2003, almost twice the rate (26 percent) for insured children.

The uninsured are increasingly paying “up front” -- before services will be rendered. When they are unable to pay the full medical bill in cash at the time of service, they can be turned away except in life-threatening circumstances.

About 20 percent of the uninsured (vs. three percent of those with coverage) say their usual source of care is the emergency room.
Studies estimate that the number of excess deaths among uninsured adults age 25-64 is in the range of 18,000 a year. This mortality figure is more than the number of deaths from diabetes (17,500) within the same age group.

According to one study, over a third of the uninsured have problems paying medical bills. The unpaid bills were substantial enough that many had been turned over to collection agencies – and nearly a quarter of the uninsured adults said they had changed their way of life significantly to pay medical bills.

What additional costs are created by the uninsured population?


The United States spends nearly $100 billion per year to provide uninsured residents with health services, often for preventable diseases or diseases that physicians could treat more efficiently with earlier diagnosis.
Hospitals provide about $34 billion worth of uncompensated care a year.
Another $37 billion is paid by private and public payers for health services for the uninsured and $26 billion is paid out-of-pocket by those who lack coverage.
The uninsured are 30 to 50 percent more likely to be hospitalized for an avoidable condition, with the average cost of an avoidable hospital stayed estimated to be about $3,300.
The increasing reliance of the uninsured on the emergency department has serious economic implications, since the cost of treating patients is higher in the emergency department than in other outpatient clinics and medical practices.


A study found that 29 percent of people who had health insurance were “underinsured” with coverage so meager they often postponed medical care because of costs.
Nearly 50 percent overall, and 43 percent of people with health coverage, said they were “somewhat” to “completely” unprepared to cope with a costly medical emergency over the coming year.

Getting Everyone Covered Will Save Lives and Money

The impacts of going uninsured are clear and severe. Many uninsured individuals postpone needed medical care which results in increased mortality and billions of dollars lost in productivity and increased expenses to the health care system. There also exists a significant sense of vulnerability to the potential loss of health insurance which is shared by tens of millions of other Americans who have managed to retain coverage.

Every American should have health care coverage, participation should be mandatory, and everyone should have basic benefits.


Link:

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml
 
Don't mis-quote me, no need to get your panties in a knot. I said maybe you shouldn't respond to a THREAD about American politics if you're going to get offended.

American politics interest me. We have a vested interest in what happens with our neighbours to the south.

Any one can feel free to criticise the Canadian health system anytime they like, as long as they are honest and truthful when they do it. It's the hypocrisy that offends me.
 
Don't mis-quote me, no need to get your panties in a knot. I said maybe you shouldn't respond to a THREAD about American politics if you're going to get offended.

Personally, given that fact that Universal Healthcare is being discussed on this thread, I very much value the opinion and experiences of people that actually live it.

Her comments have been extremely relevant and welcome here. It's YOU that seems to be getting your "panties in a knot"...:rolleyes:
 
American politics interest me. We have a vested interest in what happens with our neighbours to the south.

Any one can feel free to criticise the Canadian health system anytime they like, as long as they are honest and truthful when they do it. It's the hypocrisy that offends me.


Fair enough as long as you follow the same standard. ;)
 
I love Canadian beer and I can see Ft Erie from my office window and Niagara Falls too. :cool1:
 
Personally, given that fact that Universal Healthcare is being discussed on this thread, I very much value the opinion and experiences of people that actually live it.

Her comments have been extremely relevant and welcome here. It's YOU that seems to be getting your "panties in a knot"...:rolleyes:

:thumbsup2

It's funny how whenever a dis person slams the Canadian system because they have a friend who has an aunt who has a friend that had a bad time with the NHC it's taken as the gospel truth, but when actual Canadians talk about their system they are told they don't know what they are talking about.
 
































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