Obama Seeks $634 Billion for Health Care

[cindy_belle]

Yuu know after reading Dr. Finklestein's and Faye's posts from last night I think that they are beginning to understand what I am saying.

Socialized medicine is not perfect by any measure. It has its inherent problems, one being the megalithic cost and secondly, while quality of care is good it certainly could be better. I am tired of hearing how perfect it is when in reality I know much better than that. THAT is the propaganda that the supporters are feeding US.

Our system is not perfect either and it does leave a very small group of people to fend for themselves. I must dispute the idea floated out there in Canada and GB that the majority of people are poorly cared for. That is a fallacy. You will always get the care you need but, as is OUR downfall, at a price.

The thing that I am gleaning from their posts is that they don't want to worry about the COST to them of their medical treatment and the the point I am trying to make is that I feel Americans don't want to have to worry about the QUALITY. Both very important things, mind you, but I feel that we can work on improving the system without giving up what we consider the most important thing and that is quality.

And Faye you are right, what happens in the States is NOYB.

BTW for the person who mentioned that the Canadian Gov't is a minority Gov't you are correct but so am I. Not everyone is a liberal like Faye is, some actually have different views so she can't speak for all of them, THAT was my point.

 

[Goofycampers]

Yuu know after reading Dr. Finklestein's and Faye's posts from last night I think that they are beginning to understand what I am saying.

Socialized medicine is not perfect by any measure. It has its inherent problems, one being the megalithic cost and secondly, while quality of care is good it certainly could be better. I am tired of hearing how perfect it is when in reality I know much better than that. THAT is the propaganda that the supporters are feeding US.

Our system is not perfect either and it does leave a very small group of people to fend for themselves. I must dispute the idea floated out there in Canada and GB that the majority of people are poorly cared for. That is a fallacy. You will always get the care you need but, as is OUR downfall, at a price.

The thing that I am gleaning from their posts is that they don't want to worry about the COST to them of their medical treatment and the the point I am trying to make is that I feel Americans don't want to have to worry about the QUALITY. Both very important things, mind you, but I feel that we can work on improving the system without giving up what we consider the most important thing and that is quality.

And Faye you are right, what happens in the States is NOYB.

BTW for the person who mentioned that the Canadian Gov't is a minority Gov't you are correct but so am I. Not everyone is a liberal like Faye is, some actually have different views so she can't speak for all of them, THAT was my point.

Well said.

 

[TLSnell1981]

TennCare may very well be one of the main resasons that President Obama DOES NOT want a universal health care plan.

How/why do you think Obama's plan is different?

 

[cindy_belle]

CHOBIE

It's funny how whenever a dis person slams the Canadian system because they have a friend who has an aunt who has a friend that had a bad time with the NHC it's taken as the gospel truth, but when actual Canadians talk about their system they are told they don't know what they are talking about.

You don't know me from Adam and I don't know you at all either but if you took the time to read my posts you would see that I am not at all ignorant of any of the systems we are talking about. I am a duel citizen, an actual Canadian and an actual Brit but what I am not is an American. You are having problems with what I am saying because I am telling you something that you do not want to hear, that's all.

I was born in England and my entire extended family is still there, in the medical profession I might add. THe AUNT I was discussing was a nurse researcher in the Medical Oncology field in Britain's TOP hospital for Oncology. You can thank her anytime every time a friend or relative is put on tamixifen for her BC. SHE was one of the primary researchers for that. I used her and my uncles story to dispute a claim that people always get cancer treatment immediately. I have spent plenty of time in British hospitals visiting many relatives and have discussed in length the problems inherent in the system with 3 of my aunts, One a medical oncologist researcher, one an OR nurse and one a midwife. I am not ignorant on this subject, I will admit that I never worked in the system myself though and will defer to Dr. Finklestein on that one. They also do have a private system that is somewhat equivalent to ours which many people do not know about and Dr. Finklestein is accurate when describing it.

I was raised in Canada and went to McMaster University, another top notch medical center, for my training. I also worked in the field of Oncology for many years and am aware of the downfalls of the Canadian system. My immediate family( brother's, sister's, parent's) still live up there and that is why I discussed the case of my sister. There are plenty of Canadians that would love to pay OOP to get more timely care, which I believe Faye actually mentioned in one of her posts, so again they want a system available to them that is somewhat like ours.

I met and married an american physician and moved to the states. I have worked in 3 different states here and was shocked at the superlative care that was offered here.

I also think that if you read my posts you would also see that I am not claiming that our system is perfect either. It is all to easy to tweeze what you want out of a post and ignore what doesn't fit your view points isn't it?

As to me discussing my family's health I probably should not have done that because they are more important to me that someone making fun of the situation on a message board. They were both personalized examples that I have experienced with this health system. I am sorry that you found them somewhat dubious in their authenticity. I can assure you they are not.

That is my story. Whether you believe it or not I am in a unique position to have experienced both systems as a practitioner and as a patient. Would I accept the Canadian/British system, yes if I had to but I am telling you my preference would be the American system for both.

 

[Goofycampers]

CHOBIE

You don't know me from Adam and I don't know you at all either but if you took the time to read my posts you would see that I am not at all ignorant of any of the systems we are talking about. I am a duel citizen, an actual Canadian and an actual Brit but what I am not is an American. You are having problems with what I am saying because I am telling you something that you do not want to hear, that's all.

I was born in England and my entire extended family is still there, in the medical profession I might add. THe AUNT I was discussing was a nurse researcher in the Medical Oncology field in Britain's TOP hospital for Oncology. You can thank her anytime every time a friend or relative is put on tamixifen for her BC. SHE was one of the primary researchers for that. I used her and my uncles story to dispute a claim that people always get cancer treatment immediately. I have spent plenty of time in British hospitals visiting many relatives and have discussed in length the problems inherent in the system with 3 of my aunts, One a medical oncologist researcher, one an OR nurse and one a midwife. I am not ignorant on this subject, I will admit that I never worked in the system myself though and will defer to Dr. Finklestein on that one. They also do have a private system that is somewhat equivalent to ours which many people do not know about and Dr. Finklestein is accurate when describing it.

I was raised in Canada and went to McMaster University, another top notch medical center, for my training. I also worked in the field of Oncology for many years and am aware of the downfalls of the Canadian system. My immediate family( brother's, sister's, parent's) still live up there and that is why I discussed the case of my sister. There are plenty of Canadians that would love to pay OOP to get more timely care, which I believe Faye actually mentioned in one of her posts, so again they want a system available to them that is somewhat like ours.

I met and married an american physician and moved to the states. I have worked in 3 different states here and was shocked at the superlative care that was offered here.

I also think that if you read my posts you would also see that I am not claiming that our system is perfect either. It is all to easy to tweeze what you want out of a post and ignore what doesn't fit your view points isn't it?

As to me discussing my family's health I probably should not have done that because they are more important to me that someone making fun of the situation on a message board. They were both personalized examples that I have experienced with this health system. I am sorry that you found them somewhat dubious in their authenticity. I can assure you they are not.

That is my story. Whether you believe it or not I am in a unique position to have experienced both systems as a practitioner and as a patient. Would I accept the Canadian/British system, yes if I had to but I am telling you my preference would be the American system for both.

I hope people will take time to read your post. This is more than just politics and "If Obama says it , it has to be better yada yada yada". Our system isn't perfect I'll grant you that. But alot of people don't realize how good it is. Sometimes you don't know how good you have it until it's gone. I hope that's not the case with our system, but if nationalized healthcare is forced through then I'm afraid that's exactly how they'll feel. They'll be wishing for the "good 'ol days".

 

[TeresaNJ]

CHOBIE

You don't know me from Adam and I don't know you at all either but if you took the time to read my posts you would see that I am not at all ignorant of any of the systems we are talking about. I am a duel citizen, an actual Canadian and an actual Brit but what I am not is an American. You are having problems with what I am saying because I am telling you something that you do not want to hear, that's all.

I was born in England and my entire extended family is still there, in the medical profession I might add. THe AUNT I was discussing was a nurse researcher in the Medical Oncology field in Britain's TOP hospital for Oncology. You can thank her anytime every time a friend or relative is put on tamixifen for her BC. SHE was one of the primary researchers for that. I used her and my uncles story to dispute a claim that people always get cancer treatment immediately. I have spent plenty of time in British hospitals visiting many relatives and have discussed in length the problems inherent in the system with 3 of my aunts, One a medical oncologist researcher, one an OR nurse and one a midwife. I am not ignorant on this subject, I will admit that I never worked in the system myself though and will defer to Dr. Finklestein on that one. They also do have a private system that is somewhat equivalent to ours which many people do not know about and Dr. Finklestein is accurate when describing it.

I was raised in Canada and went to McMaster University, another top notch medical center, for my training. I also worked in the field of Oncology for many years and am aware of the downfalls of the Canadian system. My immediate family( brother's, sister's, parent's) still live up there and that is why I discussed the case of my sister. There are plenty of Canadians that would love to pay OOP to get more timely care, which I believe Faye actually mentioned in one of her posts, so again they want a system available to them that is somewhat like ours.

I met and married an american physician and moved to the states. I have worked in 3 different states here and was shocked at the superlative care that was offered here.

I also think that if you read my posts you would also see that I am not claiming that our system is perfect either. It is all to easy to tweeze what you want out of a post and ignore what doesn't fit your view points isn't it?

As to me discussing my family's health I probably should not have done that because they are more important to me that someone making fun of the situation on a message board. They were both personalized examples that I have experienced with this health system. I am sorry that you found them somewhat dubious in their authenticity. I can assure you they are not.

That is my story. Whether you believe it or not I am in a unique position to have experienced both systems as a practitioner and as a patient. Would I accept the Canadian/British system, yes if I had to but I am telling you my preference would be the American system for both.

Wonderful post, and thank you for your thoughtful insight.

 

[Brier Rose]

CHOBIE
You don't know me from Adam and I don't know you at all either but if you took the time to read my posts you would see that I am not at all ignorant of any of the systems we are talking about. I am a duel citizen, an actual Canadian and an actual Brit but what I am not is an American. You are having problems with what I am saying because I am telling you something that you do not want to hear, that's all.

Cindybelle, I'm pretty darn sure Chobie's post was not directed at you, but rather GoofyCampers who was being rather rude to FayeW.

 

[chobie]

Cindybelle, I'm pretty darn sure Chobie's post was not directed at you, but rather GoofyCampers who was being rather rude to FayeW.

Yes, and it is Canadians' business when people trash their system to back up their point that our system is better, which they almost inevitably do.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I hope people will take time to read your post. This is more than just politics and "If Obama says it , it has to be better yada yada yada". Our system isn't perfect I'll grant you that. But alot of people don't realize how good it is. Sometimes you don't know how good you have it until it's gone. I hope that's not the case with our system, but if nationalized healthcare is forced through then I'm afraid that's exactly how they'll feel. They'll be wishing for the "good 'ol days".

Americans need to be careful what they wish for. What they want and what they'll get...might not be the same thing.

 

[FayeW]

Yuu know after reading Dr. Finklestein's and Faye's posts from last night I think that they are beginning to understand what I am saying.

Socialized medicine is not perfect by any measure. It has its inherent problems, one being the megalithic cost and secondly, while quality of care is good it certainly could be better. I am tired of hearing how perfect it is when in reality I know much better than that. THAT is the propaganda that the supporters are feeding US.

Our system is not perfect either and it does leave a very small group of people to fend for themselves. I must dispute the idea floated out there in Canada and GB that the majority of people are poorly cared for. That is a fallacy. You will always get the care you need but, as is OUR downfall, at a price.

The thing that I am gleaning from their posts is that they don't want to worry about the COST to them of their medical treatment and the the point I am trying to make is that I feel Americans don't want to have to worry about the QUALITY. Both very important things, mind you, but I feel that we can work on improving the system without giving up what we consider the most important thing and that is quality.

And Faye you are right, what happens in the States is NOYB.

BTW for the person who mentioned that the Canadian Gov't is a minority Gov't you are correct but so am I. Not everyone is a liberal like Faye is, some actually have different views so she can't speak for all of them, THAT was my point.

Actually, I said American health care is none of my business. As a Canadian, no, as a citizen of the world, my everyday life is very much impacted by what happens in the United States and is therefore very much my business. I participate in these political threads because I want to have as much information as I can to hopefully be able to have intelligent conversations about the issues that also effect Canadians (economic interests, etc).

Here in Canada, as you know, liberal and conservative have very different meanings. In your terms I could not be described as a classic liberal, but I could identify as a social liberal in some areas. I believe that everybody should pay their taxes at the rate prescribed by the government, however, once it has left my hand and gone to theirs, I believe they are free to use it however they see fit. Some call it "redistribution of wealth" but I, personally, don't feel that way. I enjoy the standard of living we have here, and I don't mind that some of my tax dollars may have gone towards somebody else enjoying that same standard. I think that my government does a good job at putting systems and standards in place that protect me and mine. In short, I have a fundamental trust in my government to make good decisions that are in the best interests of all Canadians.

If for some reason I had to leave Canada I would not look to relocate to the United States, but to another Commonwealth country who's fundamental philosophies are more in keeping with my own. I'd most likely take a hop across the pond to Jolly Old'.

 

[minnie61650]

How/why do you think Obama's plan is different?

Under his plan if you have health Insurance and you wish to keep that insurance nothing will change except your cost will most likely go down by about $2,500.

Here is an outline of the The Obama-Biden plan that is posted on Change. gov website.

The Obama-Biden plan provides affordable, accessible health care for all Americans, builds on the existing health care system, and uses existing providers, doctors and plans to implement the plan. Under the Obama-Biden plan, patients will be able to make health care decisions with their doctors, instead of being blocked by insurance company bureaucrats.

Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year.

If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options.


Make Health Insurance Work for People and Businesses - Not Just Insurance and Drug Companies.

Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.

Create a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide affordable health insurance to their employees.

Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.

Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.

Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.

Establish a National Health Insurance Exchange with a range of private insurance options as well as a new public plan based on benefits available to members of Congress that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy affordable health coverage.

Ensure everyone who needs it will receive a tax credit for their premiums.

Reduce Costs and Save a Typical American Family up to $2,500 as reforms phase in:

Lower drug costs by allowing the importation of safe medicines from other developed countries, increasing the use of generic drugs in public programs and taking on drug companies that block cheaper generic medicines from the market

Require hospitals to collect and report health care cost and quality data
Reduce the costs of catastrophic illnesses for employers and their employees.
Reform the insurance market to increase competition by taking on anticompetitive activity that drives up prices without improving quality of care.

Here is a little info from the article:
Obama health plan opens tough negotiation

<SNIP>
Obama's approach is a conscious departure from the path former President Bill Clinton took in the 1990s.

For example, more than half of Obama's spending cuts would come from Medicare managed care plans. The private plans cost the government 14 percent more on average than care for seniors in traditional Medicare.

Obama would replace the current payments with a competitive bidding system estimated to save $177 billion over 10 years. <SNIP>

I feel this plan is very different than TennCare where all the clients are lumped under one universal plan.

JMHO

 

[cindy_belle]

Faye

As much as I just love England and feel very much at peace with myself when I am there, that is not one place that I would choose to move to. Way too much turmoil right now.JMHO

I do think that Canada offers a great quality of life but I must say that the U.S.'s quality of life is better for me right now so my advice would be throw away all your misconceptions you have been taught about the US and try it, you might actually like it here.

You are right that "conservative" in Canada is much more like a moderate in the States but right now I feel that we have the NDP in charge and you know, if you are being honest, how successful they are at governing.

What people do not understand, and I am talking about people on both sides of the border is that Canada and the U.S. are 2 very different countries and they are run very differently. We are lulled into a position that we THINK we know what the other country really is like because we are inundated with each others cultures (Canada much moreso that the US) but the honest to god truth is that we don't until we live it.

My family complain that I have lost my Canadian side, I don't say Eh and my accent has changed and yes, I have embraced the American way ( work hard and you will get ahead) but yet there are so many cultural references that I am at loss with that I know I don't quite fit in here either. When I say turn on the "taps" for example people stare at me like I am demented, YKWIM?

I guess what I am saying is that just because you think you know what it is like you really don't know and your bias against the U.S. shows time and time again in your posts. The U.S. is not perfect but neither is Canada. We get a lot of propaganda thrown at us when being raised in Canada that is patently false. The states is not as ugly, overindustrialized, polluted, uncaring, selfish, greedy or dangerous as we are lead to believe.

I still have many of the values that were formed early in Canada, but now I can see them through a different prism. Just makes it different, not better.

And as to the U.S. being an influence that unduly affects your life, well if it wasn't the U.S. it would be some other country. Canada is way to small to have that effect on the world. Personally I would rather it be the U.S. that is the influence than some country like China.

 

[FayeW]

I appreciate that you have a unique perspective on three very different countries. There was a time when I thought Americans and Canadians were very much the same, but 8 years here on the DIS has brought me insight that lead me to believe that while we share many similarities we are distinctly, ideologically, different. There are things that I will never understand about the American way of life and just as many that they can't understand about mine. I'm good with that.

 

[Amii]

What happens when medication prices are capped by the government? The pharmaceutical companies won't have the money they have now for research and development. I know they make plenty of money. Profit is king and I don't think there will be as much research and development if it cuts too far into their profit margin.

I'm also worried about the same thing with the good research hospitals in the US.

I hate the idea of socialized medicine. The quality and availability will be horrible. I also believe in smaller government, not bigger government.

 

[Dr_Finkelstein]

The thing that I am gleaning from their posts is that they don't want to worry about the COST to them of their medical treatment and the the point I am trying to make is that I feel Americans don't want to have to worry about the QUALITY. Both very important things, mind you, but I feel that we can work on improving the system without giving up what we consider the most important thing and that is quality.

I just want to clarify this - I would happily pay more in my National Insurance contrubutions for the NHS. I feel quality is just as if not more important than cost. You make it sound as if we are putting the cost before anything else. I am perfectly happy with the quality of my local Health Board. Quality in health care is just as important to us the UK as it is in the US.

The quality of the NHS is very high. It's not perfect - because it is staffed by humans, and humans are not perfect.

Di x

 

[Kennywife]

I have Epilepsy and take 2 very high-cost medicines, Topamax and Lamictal. In my state, we have a high-risk pool, but the prices are so extreme you wouldn't be able to afford it.

I am now insured through my hubby's company, but it took almost 30 years for me to get insurance! (I'm 32 now). Becuase I have the dreaded "pre-existing condition", I was treated as if I had some disease that others could catch. My parents tried for so many years to get insurance and they couldn't because my mother has a kidney disorder. So, all my meds came out of pocket....$300 a piece monthly.

When I got married, I had to fight tooth and nail to get on any decent insurance. I finally got on our latest one which is absolutely wonderful and my meds went form $300 a piece to $4-8 dollars!!!!! Doctors visits paid too.

I'm thankful it finally worked out, but I had to be married for a certain amount of time and be seizure-free for so many moths to get it, in other words, jump through hoops. No one should have to fight that hard for insurance. So yes, I do believe in UHC. Also, my mother's insurance paid for diddly squat of her hospital stay when she had a heart attack. So, I am.

Anna

 

[luvsJack]

I was at the pharmacy last night picking up meds for my Mom. There was a lady and her child in front of us trying to pay for her and her daughter's meds. Both apparently had several they were on and some were very expensive. When the told the total, she gave the cashier all the cash she had and tried to use her debit card for the rest. It wouldn't go. She did not have enough money to pay for her meds and had to have the cashier take several off the bill. If I had had the money, I would have paid for her meds; it made me so sad! I couldn't help but wonder how much they needed those meds and what they would have to do without to pay for them.

This child needed her medications. I don't know if Obama's plan will work or not or if it is the best thing, but something has to change! People cannot continue to have to choose between medical care and eating or having power.

People in this situation cannot choose between the quality of health providers, they don't have that luxury. Heck, my own dh doesn't have that luxury! The insurance through his employer just went up $110 a week! When he is already taking a decrease in pay that $440 is precious to us. I am insured through my work (free) and dd is insured through a private plan that was cheaper for her ($82 a month); but we had to cancel his at least until his income increases.

 

[cindy_belle]

I have Epilepsy and take 2 very high-cost medicines, Topamax and Lamictal. In my state, we have a high-risk pool, but the prices are so extreme you wouldn't be able to afford it.

Funny thing is that both my brother and sister who live in Canada have to pay O.O.P. for their medicine which runs my brother approx $1000 a month and my sister about $750. This is after they pay into their taxes for their health care. There is no coverage for med. In addition, not every drug that is available to you in the states is available to the people of Canada due to cost containment amongst other reasons.

Medical insurance is not free in Canada, you do pay for it just in a different way. That is what people so conveniently forget. And if you think that the top 5% will be able to cover the cost for you there is no way that they make enough. You will be picking up your own tab in the form of increased taxes.

As I have said before I would love to see a form of medical care that you could buy, offered by the government, that would cover people like you. Somewhat like the flood insurance they have now. That way you could be covered and I could keep the coverage I am happy with. You would be resonsible for your medical care and me, mine.

Dr. Finklestein - I believe it was you and Faye that said it was more important that medical care was available to everyone, which in socialized medicine means that cost containment is extremely important to allow that to happen. There is no getting around that point. There are resources to be shared amongst everyone. I am not saying that within those limits that you don't try to give the best possible medical care that you can. I'm sure you are. But when the money runs out, you have to cut services. I have seen that many times in Canada and have heard that the same happens in GB.

What I am saying is that I prefer to focus on quality. We tried the cost containment with HMO's and they were a complete failure to the majority of Americans. The ones that still have them due to "their" cost containments are still unhappy with their constraints such as what "tests" they can have done, what "docs" they can see, what "treatment"they can receive etc.

Please, we people that live in the States also get tired of Canadians and Brits disparaging our system also.

 

[minnie61650]

......
As I have said before I would love to see a form of medical care that you could buy, offered by the government, that would cover people like you. Somewhat like the flood insurance they have now. That way you could be covered and I could keep the coverage I am happy with. You would be resonsible for your medical care and me, mine.

E-X-A-C-T-L-Y

That is also the goal of the Obama-Biden Health plan.

Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year. If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options.

Link:

Change.gov

 

[FayeW]

Funny thing is that both my brother and sister who live in Canada have to pay O.O.P. for their medicine which runs my brother approx $1000 a month and my sister about $750. This is after they pay into their taxes for their health care. There is no coverage for med. In addition, not every drug that is available to you in the states is available to the people of Canada due to cost containment amongst other reasons.

.

If your brother and sister do not have a drug insurance plan through their employers they can buy private drug insurance with Blue Cross. I just did a quote for a comparison and I could insure my family of 4 for $195 per month. Since we have about $320 in prescription costs each month, that would provide a savings for me. (We already have health/dental insurance).

I don't know what province your siblings are in or how old they are, but Blue Cross has many plans available in all provinces. The drug plan reimburses 80%, up to a maximum of $10K per year. Your brother who is paying $1000 per month would get $800 back and it would put him right around that $1OK cut off. Your sister would be reimbursed $600 per month. If they each chose a family plan (what I quoted) your brother would see a net savings of $600 per month, and your sister $400. If they chose single coverage for themselves only, the cost would be substantially less ($80. p/month in my case).

I hope this information will help them.

ETA: Here is the link for the Blue Cross website, where you can do an automatic quote. http://www.bluecross.ca/individuallifehealthprod.html