Obama Seeks $634 Billion for Health Care

[cindy_belle]

Dr. Finklestein I am sorry if I have upset you and you feel that I have insulted your medical system. That was not my intent.

My intent was to inform people that socialized medicine has its drawbacks also and I think that you are honest you and agree that it is far from perfect with many problems inherent with the system.

As I said, I have had the unique experience of being well exposed to all three systems of medicine.

My family is British and I have spent much of my time across the pond visiting family. I was raised and educated in Canada and spent many years working in the medical field, specifically oncology, and then happened to marry an American, emigrated and continued with my career here in the US.

Just a couple of example of personal experience with the socialized medical system. I have many but not enough time to type them all up.

My aunt who worked for many years at Royal Marsden on the Tamoxifen trials would tell a very different story than you did and so would her husband, my Uncle except for the fact that he is dead now so he can't tell his tale.

He was denied care for his lung cancer for over 4 months. He went to his oncologist complaining of "classic" symptoms of lung cancer and the oncologist told him to go on vacation and come back in 2 months and they would schedule a biopsy then. After he returned and the symptoms worsened he went back to his oncologist who then scheduled a simple lung biopsy for 6 weeks later. We are now talking about 3 1/2 months without any type of diagnosis. My uncle finally got a diagnosis of lung cancer 2 weeks later, 4 months after he presented with his symptoms. The oncologist then scheduled him for an appointment to discuss treatment options for a month later, dragging out any type of treatment for another month. By that time it was too little, too late.

Where I worked, that initial lung biopsy would have been set up and performed in a matter of a day or 2 and a bone scan, Ct, MRI or whatever else necessary would have been performed that week at the latest.

Now this story comes with an interesting twist as my Uncle was diagnosed with lymphoma about a year previously and his oncologist decided to "watch" it instead of treat it. He was under the care of a physician the entire time. He had two diagnosable cancers and no medical treatment to speak of. That in my opinion is horrendous.

My aunt would tell me of many patients who would fail standard protocols for cancer treatment but would be not allowed to try new and upcoming treatments because the government deemed them "experimental" and yet, if they tried to pay for them oop, they would then be denied NHS service. That also is shameful.

I am not saying that you do not use diagnostic tests in GB or even in Canada but I am saying that it is far below the regular usage in the States and it takes much longer, especially in Canada to get these tests done.

I believe I said that they were having problems with having enough home grown doctors not there there were none at all. When I was working in Canada We had a mass immigration of British nurses who were desperate to get away from the NHS. Plenty of British physicians also came.

Canada, where I was trained, has it own set of problems similar and yet unique to them. When in school,I was taught to believe that we were far superior to the American system of medicine because ours was free for all ( never mind that pesky thing called taxes) and I believed that until I emigrated to the States and worked in its medical system. The quality of care and its vast superiority to Canada's medical system and GB's medical system shocked me and I had to reevaluate my biases.

My Canadian example would be my 41 yo sister who nearly died because she was put on a waiting list for open heart surgery for over 3 years. It wasn't until her third bout of respiratory failure that they deemed that she was FINALLY sick enough to need surgery immediately. This was at the Ottawa Heart Institute, one of Canada's most esteemed and busy medical institutes. My father who needed the same surgery had it done in a matter of 1 week in the states and had a much less complicated recovery. He spent 4 days recovering, my sister was in the ICU for a month. Because she then had to take a blood thinner and she was known to have fibroids, every month she would hemorrhage so badly that they would have to readmit her to the hospital. She needed a hysterectomy but the waiting period was 18 months so they just kept admitting her and transfusing her for that entire time. She spent about 3 months total, here and there, in the ICU waiting for treatment.

Socialized medicine is not perfect and I am tired of people saying it is. IF you have never worked in both systems like I have you only have one perspective with which to base your claims and possibly many biases like I did.

However it is not all evil either, it does provide health care to the majority of people but at a price, that of reduced availability and in many circumstances, quality of care.

The system in the US is not perfect either. It does need to be addressed so that it is available to everyone. Tort reform would be a huge example of how to reduce costs tremendously. I also think that not linking it to your employment would be a huge improvement but that's just my opinion.

What I AM saying is do not expect the same quality and standard of care that you are receiving now, it cannot be the same.

I do not think most Americans are willing to give up what they have. I believe most Americans want the system like in GB and Canada where they get medicine for "free" ( never mind those pesky taxes again) and yet get the same quality of care that they are used to now. THAT is impossible financially.

 

[ntsammy5]

Tort reform would be a huge example of how to reduce costs tremendously.

People quite often forget the huge costs associated with our legal system - it's not a coincidence that most legislators are attorneys and they mostly oppose tort reform - they don't want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

Like Shakespeare said in King Henry VI : 'The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers'

 

[Dr_Finkelstein]

Dr. Finklestein I am sorry if I have upset you and you feel that I have insulted your medical system. That was not my intent.

My intent was to inform people that socialized medicine has its drawbacks also and I think that you are honest you and agree that it is far from perfect with many problems inherent with the system.

As I said, I have had the unique experience of being well exposed to all three systems of medicine.

My family is British and I have spent much of my time across the pond visiting family. I was raised and educated in Canada and spent many years working in the medical field, specifically oncology, and then happened to marry an American, emigrated and continued with my career here in the US.

Just a couple of example of personal experience with the socialized medical system. I have many but not enough time to type them all up.

My aunt who worked for many years at Royal Marsden on the Tamoxifen trials would tell a very different story than you did and so would her husband, my Uncle except for the fact that he is dead now so he can't tell his tale.

He was denied care for his lung cancer for over 4 months. He went to his oncologist complaining of "classic" symptoms of lung cancer and the oncologist told him to go on vacation and come back in 2 months and they would schedule a biopsy then. After he returned and the symptoms worsened he went back to his oncologist who then scheduled a simple lung biopsy for 6 weeks later. We are now talking about 3 1/2 months without any type of diagnosis. My uncle finally got a diagnosis of lung cancer 2 weeks later, 4 months after he presented with his symptoms. The oncologist then scheduled him for an appointment to discuss treatment options for a month later, dragging out any type of treatment for another month. By that time it was too little, too late.

Where I worked, that initial lung biopsy would have been set up and performed in a matter of a day or 2 and a bone scan, Ct, MRI or whatever else necessary would have been performed that week at the latest.

Now this story comes with an interesting twist as my Uncle was diagnosed with lymphoma about a year previously and his oncologist decided to "watch" it instead of treat it. He was under the care of a physician the entire time. He had two diagnosable cancers and no medical treatment to speak of. That in my opinion is horrendous.

My aunt would tell me of many patients who would fail standard protocols for cancer treatment but would be not allowed to try new and upcoming treatments because the government deemed them "experimental" and yet, if they tried to pay for them oop, they would then be denied NHS service. That also is shameful.

I am not saying that you do not use diagnostic tests in GB or even in Canada but I am saying that it is far below the regular usage in the States and it takes much longer, especially in Canada to get these tests done.

I believe I said that they were having problems with having enough home grown doctors not there there were none at all. When I was working in Canada We had a mass immigration of British nurses who were desperate to get away from the NHS. Plenty of British physicians also came.

Canada, where I was trained, has it own set of problems similar and yet unique to them. When in school,I was taught to believe that we were far superior to the American system of medicine because ours was free for all ( never mind that pesky thing called taxes) and I believed that until I emigrated to the States and worked in its medical system. The quality of care and its vast superiority to Canada's medical system and GB's medical system shocked me and I had to reevaluate my biases.

My Canadian example would be my 41 yo sister who nearly died because she was put on a waiting list for open heart surgery for over 3 years. It wasn't until her third bout of respiratory failure that they deemed that she was FINALLY sick enough to need surgery immediately. This was at the Ottawa Heart Institute, one of Canada's most esteemed and busy medical institutes. My father who needed the same surgery had it done in a matter of 1 week in the states and had a much less complicated recovery. He spent 4 days recovering, my sister was in the ICU for a month. Because she then had to take a blood thinner and she was known to have fibroids, every month she would hemorrhage so badly that they would have to readmit her to the hospital. She needed a hysterectomy but the waiting period was 18 months so they just kept admitting her and transfusing her for that entire time. She spent about 3 months total, here and there, in the ICU waiting for treatment.

Socialized medicine is not perfect and I am tired of people saying it is. IF you have never worked in both systems like I have you only have one perspective with which to base your claims and possibly many biases like I did.

However it is not all evil either, it does provide health care to the majority of people but at a price, that of reduced availability and in many circumstances, quality of care.

The system in the US is not perfect either. It does need to be addressed so that it is available to everyone. Tort reform would be a huge example of how to reduce costs tremendously. I also think that not linking it to your employment would be a huge improvement but that's just my opinion.

What I AM saying is do not expect the same quality and standard of care that you are receiving now, it cannot be the same.

I do not think most Americans are willing to give up what they have. I believe most Americans want the system like in GB and Canada where they get medicine for "free" ( never mind those pesky taxes again) and yet get the same quality of care that they are used to now. THAT is impossible financially.

I'm not upset and not all insulted

I'm terribly sorry about what happened to your uncle and your sister - that was unacceptable and should never have happened. But I think you're making sweeping generalisations about care standards using your own or your families personal experience (those are definately not the norm).

For every complaint about the NHS there are 100 other positive reactions.

While I agree the US has more 'high tech' equipment, if it's not available to all who need it, only to those who can afford it, then what's the point?

There are regular recruitment fairs over here for agencies from the US, Saudi, Canada and Australia - they usually 'sell' their jobs on the higher wages (though how that works out now with the poorer exchange rate I don't know). I've worked with quite a few colleagues (nursing & medical) who've worked abroad for a couple of years to make some cash and then come back to the UK. They all say they do it for the £ - not for any other reason. The NHS wages, while not terrible, aren't great for the level of training and responsibilty you have , compared to other professions. Yes we have a staff shortage here, but I would assume so do the US, Saudi, Canada and Australia - why else would they be actively recruiting in the UK? IMO there is never enough nurses!!!!!

The US has a fantastic standard of care, but it is not equal IMO - when a charity set up to provide free health care for the 3rd world RAM (Remote Area Medical) now has to devote 60% of its effort within the US - something's not right. JMO.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_7829000/7829393.stm

Just to state again - the NHS is far from perfect, but as a PP stated - countries who have a UHS never change from it - simple reason being, it works best for them.

di x

 

[cindy_belle]

In my personal experience I am not making sweeping generalizations, I just gave two examples that have touched me personally. I could bore you with hundreds more professionally, well at least in Canada. You do know that people make sweeping generalizations about American medicine that are wrong also ( that movie comes to mind).

There are lots of choices in insurance here and there are services available for the un and under insured. No one is allowed to be refused medical treatment by law. There are areas that are under served by physicians, southern Illinois comes to mind where it is very difficult to see a Dr. There is a reason for that. The medical malpractice insurance in Illinois for a physician in a high- risk specialty like neuro surgery and obstetrics can be as high as $300-400,000 a year. No Dr can that cover that kind of fee and still financially survive in a more rural area and so they choose to leave and practice in an area, such as Chicago where they can pay that exorbitant fee or they move to a state where they have caps in place for malpractice like Wisconsin. If there was tort reform, I am sure that many physicians would be happy to return to these under served areas.

I am not saying that things need to stay the same here, I agree that something has to give and people deserve to be able to get affordable insurance.

I am also NOT saying that socialized medicine is horrible, I am saying that I doubt Americans will settle for the changes that will have to be made to make it work in the States. When you are used to a Rolls Royce, it is hard to settle for a Honda, perfectly serviceable but not nearly as nice.

The first time any hospital suggests placing a patient in a multi bed mixed ward there will be fireworks, yet in England that is accepted. THAT is my point. People will not settle for the cost cutting that will be necessary.

Yes, I know the argument that some people will bring up that they would be happy with a Honda but then you are forcing people that were happy with the care they were receiving to settle also.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree .

 

[Dr_Finkelstein]

In my personal experience I am not making sweeping generalizations, I just gave two examples that have touched me personally. I could bore you with hundreds more. You do know that people make sweeping generalizations about American medicine that are wrong also ( that movie comes to mind). There are lots of choices in insurance here here and there are services available for the un and underinsured. No one is turned away by law from receiving health care.

I am not saying that things need to stay the same here, I agree that something has to give and people deserve to be able to get affordable insurance.

I am also NOT saying that socialized medicine is horrible, I am saying that I doubt Americans will settle for the changes that will have to be made to make it work in the States. When you are used to a Rolls Royce, it is hard to settle for a Honda, perfectly serviceable but not nearly as nice.

The first time any hospital suggests placing a patient in a 10 bed mixed ward there will be fireworks, yet in England that is accepted. THAT is my point. People will not settle for the cost cutting that will be necessary.

Yes, I know the argument that some people will bring up that they would be happy with a Honda but then you are forcing people that were happy with the care they were receiving to settle also.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree .

Just to let you know - there has been so many complaints about the mixed bedded wards, that they are to be changed back to single sex wards again. Thank goodness - how anyone thought that would be a good idea- I don't know! All the nursing unions over here have been actively lobbying against it for some time and the DoH has finally listened.

I wasn't trying to change anyones mind, or to actively try to 'sell' UHC, I was just trying to point out that the 'horror stories' put out about the NHS aren't true.

To each their own - I just don't want anyone thinking the NHS is a 2nd rate system - it's not perfect, but we'd never want a US style system.

BTW Rolls Royce are over priced and unreliable My DH and Ds are big Top Gear fans, so I get to see all the car reviews on a daily basis

di x

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Elect different people then - that's what I plan on doing. We're out numbered though.

One of the things I haven't seen mentioned is that once these programs are instituted, they'll never, ever go away.

Eventually we will have universal health care in this country, like it or not. It's inevitable!

Yes, we will eventually have universal/rationing health care because we will be taxed into it. I don't like it one bit. I once was on universal health care and hated it. Grass is always greener on the other side until you get there.

 

[Brier Rose]

There are lots of choices in insurance here and there are services available for the un and under insured. No one is allowed to be refused medical treatment by law.

This is simply not true. We CANNOT get health insurance..period...not at any price. We have been turned down again and again and again.
Basically Pre-Existing Condition = SOL.

You're right about one thing, there are lots of choices of insurance..IF your healthy enough to qualify. I thank God that I was able to get policies on both of my children. It's just DH and myself that are the unlucky ones.

As far as not being allowed to refuse medical treatment, it's true that if you come into the ER the have to stabilize you and cannot turn you away. They do not however have to treat many conditions that can absolutely be life threatening. Cancer for instance, as I stated in my previous post.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

This is simply not true. We CANNOT get health insurance..period...not at any price. We have been turned down again and again and again.
Basically Pre-Existing Condition = SOL.

You're right about one thing, there are lots of choices of insurance..IF your healthy enough to qualify. I thank God that I was able to get policies on both of my children. It's just DH and myself that are the unlucky ones.

As far as not being allowed to refuse medical treatment, it's true that if you come into the ER the have to stabilize you and cannot turn you away. They do not however have to treat many conditions that can absolutely be life threatening. Cancer for instance, as I stated in my previous post.

You should be able to get pre-existing health insurance through your state. A friend of mine did this because she had brain cancer and let her insurance drop for a few months.

 

[Brier Rose]

You should be able to get pre-existing health insurance through your state. A friend of mine did this because she had brain cancer and let her insurance drop for a few months.

I did check into that, and I was told that Georgia is one of the few remaining states to not offer a high-risk pool.

 

[CowboyCO]

I love the irony that the same people that tell you that the decison about abortion is between the patient and the doctor, but EVERY OTHER MEDICAL DECISION will now be between the government and your doctor.

They'll pay for your abortion no questions asked, but they may not pay for surgery if the expected result doesn't meet a quality/quantity of life benefit calculation.

 

[Goofycampers]

I don't think that Americans understand that with socialized medicine you are trading once set of problems for another.

In socialized medicine, it is not free. Everyone is forced to pay for it in taxes, here at least you can chose the type of coverage that suits you.

Because it is not free people other than physicians make medical decisions based on economic reasoning and not medical reasoning. This means that MRI's, CT scans, ultrasounds are no longer routine for diagnostic purposes. Surgeries such as Hip and knee replacements are based on quotas and not individual needs.

Medically necessary treatments can take more that a year.

Getting life saving cancer treatments in a timely fashion can be very difficult. Getting life saving transplants depend on whether a team deems it cost effective.

Medicines that are superior to treat diseases are no longer available as there are cheaper, albeit not as effective, versions that are preferable to the govt.

Physicians are no longer going into medicine because it is not worth their time, energy, intellect or money to pursue.

If you think I am joking, I assure you that I am not. I have plenty of experience working in both healthcare systems.

Many years ago when Canada switched to socialized medicine, the best and brightest of our medical field fled to the states. Nowadays there is a shortage of physicians in all but the largest cities.

In England, many of their best and brightest are also choosing not to go into medicine because the rewards are few and the problems are huge. They are importing physicians from foreign countries to cover the gap. These Drs are not always up to the standards of education that we presently demand in medicine.

If you are so sure that you think that socialized medicine works so well I implore you to REALLY look into what you are giving up in quality of care and timeliness in treatment. Don't be basing your opinion on movies that are propaganda at best.

Nothing in life is free so what are you willing to pay?

I applaud this post, very well said. I am a nurse and deal with government programs on a daily basis. I think it would be a nightmare. This idea that poor people don't get healthcare is a farse. Every state has medicaid for the poor, with special compensations for children .

 

[Goofycampers]

I'm not upset and not all insulted

I'm terribly sorry about what happened to your uncle and your sister - that was unacceptable and should never have happened. But I think you're making sweeping generalisations about care standards using your own or your families personal experience (those are definately not the norm).

For every complaint about the NHS there are 100 other positive reactions.

While I agree the US has more 'high tech' equipment, if it's not available to all who need it, only to those who can afford it, then what's the point?

There are regular recruitment fairs over here for agencies from the US, Saudi, Canada and Australia - they usually 'sell' their jobs on the higher wages (though how that works out now with the poorer exchange rate I don't know). I've worked with quite a few colleagues (nursing & medical) who've worked abroad for a couple of years to make some cash and then come back to the UK. They all say they do it for the £ - not for any other reason. The NHS wages, while not terrible, aren't great for the level of training and responsibilty you have , compared to other professions. Yes we have a staff shortage here, but I would assume so do the US, Saudi, Canada and Australia - why else would they be actively recruiting in the UK? IMO there is never enough nurses!!!!!

The US has a fantastic standard of care, but it is not equal IMO - when a charity set up to provide free health care for the 3rd world RAM (Remote Area Medical) now has to devote 60% of its effort within the US - something's not right. JMO.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_7829000/7829393.stm

Just to state again - the NHS is far from perfect, but as a PP stated - countries who have a UHS never change from it - simple reason being, it works best for them.

di x

I can see that you have read many of these posts ritten by people on here with a political opinion but really know nothing about healthcare. They like to say that the U.S. has high tech equipment for the wealthy only. That is a bald face lie. EVERYONE here has access to good healthcare. You may have to make sacrifices to get healthcare, and yes there are some policies that have pre-existing conditions, but not many. Most will cover, I know this first hand . And as I have said there is medicaid available if you are poor. Of course if you are admitted to a hospital they will not deny care to ANYONE. It is illegal. I too have spoken with several of my husbands collegues from Canada and they have been in agreement while the system here in the states is not perfect they felt it was superior to theirs.

 

[FayeW]

In my personal experience I am not making sweeping generalizations, I just gave two examples that have touched me personally. I could bore you with hundreds more professionally, well at least in Canada. You do know that people make sweeping generalizations about American medicine that are wrong also ( that movie comes to mind).

There are lots of choices in insurance here and there are services available for the un and under insured. No one is allowed to be refused medical treatment by law. There are areas that are under served by physicians, southern Illinois comes to mind where it is very difficult to see a Dr. There is a reason for that. The medical malpractice insurance in Illinois for a physician in a high- risk specialty like neuro surgery and obstetrics can be as high as $300-400,000 a year. No Dr can that cover that kind of fee and still financially survive in a more rural area and so they choose to leave and practice in an area, such as Chicago where they can pay that exorbitant fee or they move to a state where they have caps in place for malpractice like Wisconsin. If there was tort reform, I am sure that many physicians would be happy to return to these under served areas.

I am not saying that things need to stay the same here, I agree that something has to give and people deserve to be able to get affordable insurance.

I am also NOT saying that socialized medicine is horrible, I am saying that I doubt Americans will settle for the changes that will have to be made to make it work in the States. When you are used to a Rolls Royce, it is hard to settle for a Honda, perfectly serviceable but not nearly as nice.

The first time any hospital suggests placing a patient in a multi bed mixed ward there will be fireworks, yet in England that is accepted. THAT is my point. People will not settle for the cost cutting that will be necessary.

Yes, I know the argument that some people will bring up that they would be happy with a Honda but then you are forcing people that were happy with the care they were receiving to settle also.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree .

I can't speak for Diane, I can only speak from my perspective as a Canadian. I know that you, as a health professional, and a Canadian, have a unique perspective on our health care system. The misconception I think comes from the idea that Canadians (or Brits) think that UHC is perfect, while nothing could be farther than the truth. We all understand that this system could be vastly improved in many areas but I don't believe for a second that any Canadian would support any movement to replace it with American style medicine.

Where I get offended is when people (you included) point out all the flaws and horror stories of the Canadian system, but conveniently fail to mention that the same, and worse, is going on in America. Patients have died in American waiting rooms, too. Remember the frantic husband who was calling 911 for an ambulance while his wife lay dying IN THE HOSPITAL WAITING AREA???? Overcrowding, long waits, and shoddy medical treatment happens everywhere, not just in the country's with UHC.

I am fortunate enough to live in a major centre and my family and I enjoy excellent health care. Just last week I was feeling "funny", with some pain in my back and chest. I went to the local urgent care clinic (it was after hours) and with 20 mins of walking in the door I was in a bed having an ECG to rule out heart attack. I also had an x-ray. We aren't pretending that UHC is perfect, but to portray it as being crap while everything is sunshine and rainbows south of the border is disingenuous, to say the least.

I am equally sure that the standard of American health care is second to none...for those who can afford it. The true value in UHC lies in the "cradle to grave" philosophy which allows all Canadians to receive medical treatment, including preventative care, without having to worry about how they are going to pay for it. From what I understand, the largest strain on the American health care systems comes from uninsured, or underinsured patients overburdening the emergency care facilities because they can't afford to see a doctor until it becomes an emergency situation where they will be guaranteed treatment at the hospital. I know that I can see my doctor anytime I like, or seek the services of an urgent care facility as I see fit. I don't have to wait until I can afford it or until it becomes catastrophic.

 

[cindy_belle]

This is simply not true. We CANNOT get health insurance..period...not at any price. We have been turned down again and again and again.
Basically Pre-Existing Condition = SOL.

See, that is where OUR system falls down. There needs to be insurance available to people that are unable to get conventional insurance, kinda like flood insurance that only the gov't will sponsor, to cover people like you.

I am well aware of the problems in our system, nothing is perfect and there will always be loopholes that people fall through. How about we keep the system we have and work on fixing the areas that are problematic. That would make everyone happy, yes?

Usually people can get insurance but at increased prices. How did you lose your insurance in the first place? I didn't think that they are able just to drop you because of a medical problem.

With regards to cancer treatments, there are places that will treat you, just not every hospital. Cook county hospital is just one example in Chicago.

Just to let you know - there has been so many complaints about the mixed bedded wards, that they are to be changed back to single sex wards again. Thank goodness - how anyone thought that would be a good idea- I don't know! All the nursing unions over here have been actively lobbying against it for some time and the DoH has finally listened.

But they still will have wards. Here they have private rooms or for the very unfortunate semi private rooms, a ward would throw people into a tizzy. I am not saying wards are bad, in fact for nurses they are much more convenient just that it wouldn't fly here. Remember that we are one of how many countries? that haven't embraced the metric system. Change comes slowly if at all.

BTW I kinda agree with the Rolls Royce but I tried to pick a car that was at least related to GB, though now I don't know who builds it. How about we replace that analogy with a Lexus, they are pretty reliable.

BTW where abouts in Scotland are you if you don't mind. I've got family in the Glasgow area.

 

[Goofycampers]

I can't speak for Diane, I can only speak from my perspective as a Canadian. I know that you, as a health professional, and a Canadian, have a unique perspective on our health care system. The misconception I think comes from the idea that Canadians (or Brits) think that UHC is perfect, while nothing could be farther than the truth. We all understand that this system could be vastly improved in many areas but I don't believe for a second that any Canadian would support any movement to replace it with American style medicine.

Where I get offended is when people (you included) point out all the flaws and horror stories of the Canadian system, but conveniently fail to mention that the same, and worse, is going on in America. Patients have died in American waiting rooms, too. Remember the frantic husband who was calling 911 for an ambulance while his wife lay dying IN THE HOSPITAL WAITING AREA???? Overcrowding, long waits, and shoddy medical treatment happens everywhere, not just in the country's with UHC.

I am fortunate enough to live in a major centre and my family and I enjoy excellent health care. Just last week I was feeling "funny", with some pain in my back and chest. I went to the local urgent care clinic (it was after hours) and with 20 mins of walking in the door I was in a bed having an ECG to rule out heart attack. I also had an x-ray. We aren't pretending that UHC is perfect, but to portray it as being crap while everything is sunshine and rainbows south of the border is disingenuous, to say the least.

I am equally sure that the standard of American health care is second to none...for those who can afford it. The true value in UHC lies in the "cradle to grave" philosophy which allows all Canadians to receive medical treatment, including preventative care, without having to worry about how they are going to pay for it. From what I understand, the largest strain on the American health care systems comes from uninsured, or underinsured patients overburdening the emergency care facilities because they can't afford to see a doctor until it becomes an emergency situation where they will be guaranteed treatment at the hospital. I know that I can see my doctor anytime I like, or seek the services of an urgent care facility as I see fit. I don't have to wait until I can afford it or until it becomes catastrophic.

Again, a misconception. Please read my above post. What happened to that man and his wife was appauling and that's why it made the news. It certainly wasn't something of the ordinary here so pointing to it is really pretty useless.

 

[cindy_belle]

See, Faye, I am not saying that the Canadian medical system is terrible, I am saying it is flawed, like every system. The situation you quoted is terrible but I can assure you that I would be able to google and find the exact same scenario take place in Canada or GB. No system is perfect.

I had a very biased view like yours before I actually got to work in both systems. Truth be told, I had a very biased opinion on the US overall. I heard the horror stories, just like you, and felt so superior and smug that we were doing a much better job. But the fact is that Canada does an adequate to good job for everyone and that is it. The US does a superb job for whomever gets care. The vast majority of people in the States have access to medical care. There are an unfortunate few that have difficulty getting insurance, yes, but why not fix that problem and not throw the whole system out just because of that.

What I AM saying is that switching to a socialized medicine system would not be popular here in the States. People are used to the quality of medical care and all the bells and whistles that come along with it down here and it would be a shock to their system to change it. Something needs to be done but I wouldn't want it to be the Canadian system.

Canada is a different country and what works up there doesn't necessarily work down here. BTW, I no longer have that smug and superior attitude because I have learned that everything that I was taught about the States wasn't necessarily true. You've got to live here to understand that.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

I did check into that, and I was told that Georgia is one of the few remaining states to not offer a high-risk pool.

I thought all states had that insurance. I guess you learn something new everyday. I wish you luck. Maybe you can talk to your local government and state government to try to change it.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

See, Faye, I am not saying that the Canadian medical system is terrible, I am saying it is flawed, like every system. The situation you quoted is terrible but I can assure you that I would be able to google and find the exact same scenario take place in Canada or GB. No system is perfect.

I had a very biased view like yours before I actually got to work in both systems. Truth be told, I had a very biased opinion on the US overall. I heard the horror stories, just like you, and felt so superior and smug that we were doing a much better job. But the fact is that Canada does an adequate to good job for everyone and that is it. The US does a superb job for whomever gets care. The vast majority of people in the States have access to medical care. There are an unfortunate few that have difficulty getting insurance, yes, but why not fix that problem and not throw the whole system out just because of that.

What I AM saying is that switching to a socialized medicine system would not be popular here in the States. People are used to the quality of medical care and all the bells and whistles that come along with it down here and it would be a shock to their system to change it. Something needs to be done but I wouldn't want it to be the Canadian system.

Canada is a different country and what works up there doesn't necessarily work down here. BTW, I no longer have that smug and superior attitude because I have learned that everything that I was taught about the States wasn't necessarily true. You've got to live here to understand that.

Great post!

 

[cindy_belle]

I went back and read that post again. Faye, I am not generally a person to take offense and you obviously are:

Where I get offended is when people (you included) point out all the flaws and horror stories of the Canadian system, but conveniently fail to mention that the same, and worse, is going on in America.

But I feel that I must point out to you that youu are so totally wrong when you keep saying things like

I don't believe for a second that any Canadian would support any movement to replace it with American style medicine.

I know plenty of Canadians that would be very happy receiving the superior care that is available in the U.S. In fact all you have to do is google and you will find plenty of examples of Canadians paying out of pocket because they cannot get the care that they need in Canada in a timely manner.

You quite often come on here and state that you speak for many Canadians in a very broad view. The fact is that you have a conservative government in place and therefore not ALL Canadian share the same political viewpoint that you have. In fact, I must say that many do not.

 

[FayeW]

Again, a misconception. Please read my above post. What happened to that man and his wife was appauling and that's why it made the news. It certainly wasn't something of the ordinary here so pointing to it is really pretty useless.

It's not a misconception. If they have no insurance they are not going to get preventative care. They may get treated at the emergency room, but they aren't going to get the ongoing treatment that they may need.