NYT opinion piece: Disney and the Decline of America’s Middle Class

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm not sure what your point is here.

I said that it FEELS LIKE people are richer than I am in Vegas. It's an OPINION. I never cited any data. I'm not even sure what you are trying to debate here.

The fact that you tied it to only Vegas is what I spoke to the fact that you continued to tie it to Vegas only when what you mentioned were not at all specific to Vegas. To me that means you've rarely if ever traveled anywhere else but Vegas including not traveled to Disney (and my assumption is you have traveled elsewhere).

The alterative is that the destination of Vegas is meh and so-so to you so your tolerance to costs is less than others, it still wouldn't make it that high ticket costs are specific to Vegas unfortunately or that show costs are high unfortunately. Specific to the Sphere because of the tech used and the specific venue those ticket will probably cost a bit more than elsewhere for that reason but if it were held outside of the Sphere most (perhaps not all) the concerts would be a bit less. They would however not be inexpensive overall as concerts all over have increased dramatically in costs in the last several years.

Chappell Roan was just in my metro last weekend. Her concert, an outdoor one on the grass and only standing were $129.50 per person for the cheapest ticket (called general admission), VIP (which was just a smaller section off to the side) was $277 per person. Resale on SeatGeek were $360-535 for the general admission depending on what day you went. VIP resale just on SeatGeek was $790-878. And again this was an outdoor, grass, standing concerts. The weather was hot and humid too.

I have always felt whenever I've traveled that some stuff was above my reasonable costs or me stomaching the costs. If you've not felt that way in any of your other travels that's pretty incredible, even a Lake at the Ozarks weekend (which is almost as cheap as I can do for a weekend getaway) you feel that way when you're on the Main Channel in your 20+ft boat getting tossed around by multi-million dollar yachts that clearly have a ton more wealth than we do.

 

[J-Dog]

No one says their image is "we will accommodate everyone at all costs" but their image is very much Main Street USA, which reads middle-class, not uber-wealthy. They're not like Regent Seven Seas cruises or the Aman resorts where they're projecting a luxe image, and frankly that's appropriate because they don't offer that level of service not even in concierge. WDW (and DCL too) may carry a luxury price tag but it's not a luxury experience by any stretch of the imagination. WDW earned 26 Billion dollars in revenue in 2019, when it was more affordable for more families and a lot more was included, such as FP+, magic bands, and Magical Express. In 2024, they generated 34 Billion dollars, thanks to pent up travel demand, inflation, price hikes, and the separating out of free perks like magic bands and FP+ into huge revenue generators. . You are white knighting for a corporation's right to shake you down to increase revenue by 8 billion dollars over 5 years, and to make the experience worse for most non-rich guests in order to do so. Anything to make the line go up I guess. I'm not a Disney shareholder so I go to Universal now.

I don't think anyone is "white knighting" a corporation. To me, it's simply a difference of opinion on whether Disney is an evil corporation who is fleecing everyone for all they are worth, or is just a company following the trends of their own industry.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

If you're unhappy with Disney pricing, I don't think you'll like Epic Universe much.

You also won't find anything like magic bands, and Magical Express there, and any ride skipping service is limited to very few hotels. Also, no daily parades or a comparable nighttime spectacular. Not that I don't like EU, the comparison is just silly to me.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You also won't find anything like magic bands, and Magical Express there, and any ride skipping service is limited to very few hotels. Also, no daily parades or a comparable nighttime spectacular. Not that I don't like EU, the comparison is just silly to me.

I honestly can't tell if you're mixing up Universal or not here. That or you're trying to do a bad faith argument.

Volcano Bay used Tapu Tapu bands for 8 1/2 years although it is no longer being used. Did it have the same functionality as MagicBands? No but it certainly was like one in a wrist band used for functionality at a park.

Express Pass is not limited to very few hotels, anyone can purchase it (both limited and unlimited) at Studios, Islands of Adventure and Epic Universe. It is however included in the hotel stay for Royal Pacific, Hard Rock and Portofino Bay although that inclusion is only for Islands of Adventure and the Studios.

There are parades at Universal though not for Epic at the moment.

There is a nighttime show as well. Comparable is hard here because Universal has not been one to have big fireworks at their parks due to restrictions of where they are located at. To my knowledge that hasn't changed with Epic but they do have a similar water projection show like they do at the Studios.

I don't even know why you'd bring DME into the picture as it no longer exists at Disney and did anything like it ever exist at Universal? I don't remember that being something that did. If it didn't it wouldn't be anywhere near fair to try and compare that here.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

I think all leisure & entertainment companies have the right to increase the prices to whatever they see fit. The consumers can decide if they want to pursue this 100% non-essential option.

Worry about less fortunate people? Start donating more to charities. Make-a-Wish foundation is a good place to start.


If you're unhappy with Disney pricing, I don't think you'll like Epic Universe much.

I donated to Make A Wish last week and donate to my local food pantry and World Central Kitchen every month. But then, I didn't grow up on Rodeo Drive so I'm capable of feeling empathy for people who were born with less, work hard, and just want to be able to afford to give their kids a piece of the Disney magic. And I booked my Epic Universe trip over a year in advance. The new flagship hotel is still a lot less than I would pay to stay at the Contemporary or Grand Floridian with a theme park view, at least it was when I booked it, and unlike with Disney concierge, if we need a last minute dinner reservation, it's just a simple text to the hotel's guest services. And when we transfer to one of the legacy deluxe hotels, our fast passes will be included with our resort stay.

The idea of a company "just keeping up with trends" is one I find similarly bogus. All the grocery stores across the country have been price-gouging ever since the pandemic, and they've admitted that it's just greedflation and not necessarily due to rising costs on their end. (This has changed recently obviously with new tariffs, but through the end of 2024 it was the case). Are we supposed to just shrug when Kroger raises prices on milk just because they can?

And yes, I know groceries are a necessity and vacations aren't. I just don't understand why people take so much umbrage at the idea that Disney is being perceived as increasingly greedy in the past 5 years. It's absolutely a fair perception given the increased costs of baseline tickets and hotels and the number of things that used to be "free" or at least included that are now extra, sometimes to the tune of hundreds of dollars per day for a family of 4. I genuinely don't get why anyone is taking offense to the fact that loyal Disney guests are complaining about the price hikes, because the cost increases are way above just keeping pace with inflation.

 

[Minnie1222]

Main Street which was based on Marceline is based on how a lot of smaller towns were set up. If you haven't been to Marceline I would suggest going there but you might be shocked to see it has no resemblance to your version of what a Main Street is, it's certainly not a Rodeo Drive and never was.

Just because someone used a certain Main Street as an inspiration doesn't mean that the cost to visit such Main Street is the same as the one used in a multi-billion dollar business.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Just because someone used a certain Main Street as an inspiration doesn't mean that the cost to visit such Main Street is the same as the one used in a multi-billion dollar business.

Weird that you're trying to downplay your own reference here. That "someone" is the founder of the very parks you're talking about, who lived there for several years as a child and wanted the Main Street in his theme park to evoke memories of that type.

That Main Street which is heavily evoked in the parks is not in any way supposed to make someone think Rodeo Drive. Go there and see for yourself and then try and tell yourself it's the same as Rodeo Drive in both looks, feels and nostalgia. I would more describe the place you're talking about is like a very high end shopping district with very affluent brands. I know the PP mentioned Main Street as far as the ambience of the parks themselves but that still is the case when talking about the actual Main Street USA park to MK. That while there have always been those who could afford and those who couldn't with the parks the influence for Walt in using his childhood town was never screamed high high wealth, his upbringing was in a poor family.

If you're a Disney enthusiast (which we know you are) it's worth a trip regardless to see and experience more of what was in Walt Disney's life and his influences, it may also be humbling to you given how the small town America has been disappearing over many years. I would suggest a side trip to KC for the Laugh-O-Gram Studios but it's not open to the public (only the outside) until or whenever they get enough funding to do so (it's been in limbo for many years so I wouldn't hold one's breath).

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

I honestly can't tell if you're mixing up Universal or not here. That or you're trying to do a bad faith argument.

Maybe you missed what I was adding to. The post I replied to was responding to the argument that, since 2019, Disney has taken away perks like ME, free magic bands for hotel guests, the three FP+ selections before one's trip, while raising prices and so the poster now goes to Universal. But I find these comparisons silly because the two offer some different experiences, and it's not like Universal offers these specific items that have been lost at WDW. And ticket prices have been getting higher across the board.

ETA: I don't think differences between the destinations are bad. I have visited both resorts and like them, I think they offer different things and that's not bad.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Maybe you missed what I was adding to. The post I replied to was responding to the argument that, since 2019, Disney has taken away perks like ME, free magic bands for hotel guests, the three FP+ selections before one's trip, while raising prices and so the poster now goes to Universal. But I find these comparisons silly because the two offer some different experiences, and it's not like Universal offers these specific items that have been lost at WDW. And ticket prices have been getting higher across the board.

ETA: I don't think differences between the destinations are bad. I have visited both resorts and like them, I think they offer different things and that's not bad.

But like I mentioned in my first response to you some of what you mentioned wasn't accurate. Not for nothing though keep in mind that Lightning Lane Premium Pass (more expensive than Universal's and doesn't include more than one ride either) was first introduced to only Deluxe resorts before then expanding to other onsite hotels before expanding to the general public. A lot of people bellyached on the Boards about it being released to the public and wanted it to just stay at the Deluxe level (largely because they felt like they should get more for what price point they were paying and to keep it more of an exclusive service).

I may have missed it but I didn't see where cabbageandkings poster was saying they went to Universal now because Universal still has what Disney took away. It seems like they went to Universal because they were not satisfied any more with what Disney was offering at the price point they were offering based off what they used to be able to get in the past and what Disney offered in the past.

I totally agree that each company offers different things, there's pros and cons to both. They also operate and have always operated differently but purely observationally it does seem like more people have jumped ship from Disney to Universal rather than people jumping ship from Universal to Disney, that is when you're speaking about people who enjoy both it usually goes where people stop going to Disney and just go to Universal whereas it's less likely for people to stop going to Universal and just stick with Disney. That's more of a tangent of the actual comments you and I were making though.

 

[Minnie1222]

And I booked my Epic Universe trip over a year in advance. The new flagship hotel is still a lot less than I would pay to stay at the Contemporary or Grand Floridian with a theme park view, at least it was when I booked it, and unlike with Disney concierge, if we need a last minute dinner reservation, it's just a simple text to the hotel's guest services. And when we transfer to one of the legacy deluxe hotels, our fast passes will be included with our resort stay.

The idea of a company "just keeping up with trends" is one I find similarly bogus. I just don't understand why people take so much umbrage at the idea that Disney is being perceived as increasingly greedy.

There's nothing wrong with preferring Universal over Disney. But why attack only Disney when Universal also priced out people? The original premier hotels have doubled their rates. Helios is in an excellent location, but the hotel isn't in the same league as Grand Flo.

 

[J-Dog]

I may have missed it but I didn't see where cabbageandkings poster was saying they went to Universal now because Universal still has what Disney took away. It seems like they went to Universal because they were not satisfied any more with what Disney was offering at the price point they were offering based off what they used to be able to get in the past and what Disney offered in the past.

The point that others have been making here, to which I agree with, is that Disney is being singled out because people think they have some kind of made-up arbitrary/fiduciary requirement that they have to be affordable for everyone (i.e. "What would Walt say?"). And for some reason they aren't holding-up their end of this imaginary requirement, but yet other similar vacation businesses and destinations are also increasing prices and that's okay because they aren't held to the standard of "fairness" that Disney is.

i.e. Universal is almost as expensive, but for some reason people are much more willing to say "Disney sucks! I'm going to Universal!" than the other way around.

Maybe it's Disney being bad at optics of late, and that's fair. But otherwise, I personally think it's unfair to hold Disney to some "higher standard" of affordability than everybody else, just because they're Disney.