Nutty rumor - is it true?

[ChrisFL]

What has this to do with the matter being discussed? You don't know if that person on a scooter is able bodied!! You don't even deserve this response, so that is all I will say to you!!

here we go again...

 

[safetymom]

There are stools now at Pecos Bills. Cosmic Rays is next to get stools instead of chairs with backs.

 

[kmk1180]

I don't see the big deal. Just another thing for some of the haters to get in a fury about. I can't think of one time that I sat there eating and thought to myself "Wow, this chair is COMFY!". I am there to eat, get a brief respite from the sun, and then move on to more of the magic.

The table service meals are the ones where we are apt to linger a little bit and get a good rest before tackling the parks some more.

I agree. But it's not really haters, more whinner's. SInce you have only 26 posts, I'll assume your new to the boards....You'll find that if Disney changes ANYTHING, you'll find people here on the boards complaining about it. And it's always Disney is dropping it's standards.
Those people will still go, and make it sound like 10, 15 or 20 years ago everything was perfect...nobody ever waited in lines, you could walk up to any resturant and sit and eat without an ADR, the place was perfect everywhere, the food was way better....ect.

 

[ChrisFL]

....you could walk up to any resturant and sit and eat without an ADR, the place was perfect everywhere, the food was way better....ect.

Those things are true, or at least much better 15-20 years ago than they are now...that is obvious

 

[Babsicles]

I must say things were not perfect 15 / 20 years ago. Remember running to Epcot as soon as they opened to make your ADR's at Spaceship Earth? We wasted hours upon hours waiting on those lines to talk via "at&t phone camera" just to make your ADR's. However, the standard of how customers were treated and the "knowledgeable & helpful" staff truly made your vacation. If you had a complaint (which was rare back then) it was addressed immediately! Not waiting until you get home to write numerous emails / snail mails before even getting a response.

 

[queenie82]

Doesn't bother me at all. People will STILL come and buy the food and eat the food. Especially if they are on a dining plan.

To be honest...the last time I ate counter service I ate it sitting on a wall away from the battle for tables and had a lovely time. Sitting at any counter service location other than The Land isn't all that desirable to me so stool, chair, brick wall, bench....just stick your butt somewhere....eat...and move on!

 

[PrincessAurora206]

Those things are true, or at least much better 15-20 years ago than they are now...that is obvious

I concur. I grew up near Disney and have been there hundreds of times over the last 26 years so it's easy for me to see that they are slipping in many areas. It's understandable that some people would be upset about certain changes (don't even get me started on how they ruined Imagination, brought in Mission Space, etc. etc... haha).

If the stool thing is true, then it is kind of lame but not surprising. Disney is a business, first and foremost, and they'll do whatever's best for their bottomline whether it's a good decision or not.

 

[Chuck S]

I must say things were not perfect 15 / 20 years ago. Remember running to Epcot as soon as they opened to make your ADR's at Spaceship Earth? We wasted hours upon hours waiting on those lines to talk via "at&t phone camera" just to make your ADR's. However, the standard of how customers were treated and the "knowledgeable & helpful" staff truly made your vacation. If you had a complaint (which was rare back then) it was addressed immediately! Not waiting until you get home to write numerous emails / snail mails before even getting a response.

I still have most problems addressed during our visit, only writing if the problem is quite minor and I didn't want to deal with it at the time. Vacations and technology have both changed in 20+ years. Email and lack of high long distance prices make it easier for the guest to address the problem when they return home by phone and email. And how many posters do we see that come to the boards to complain, but did not even report the " vacation ruining" problem while they were at WDW because they didn't want to "waste precious vacation time" dealing with it? There are two sides to that coin. And yes, making ADRs took time using those kiosks, they were fun, but you usally had to wait in line to get to them. Just like an attraction.

 

[kmk1180]

Those things are true, or at least much better 15-20 years ago than they are now...that is obvious

If you think so ok but I've got Disney experiences dating back to 1977
and remember it wasn't so perfect as you pretend it was.
I think you only remember the best memories and maybe a few really bad ones. but forget the average stuff like the box of popcorn on the street. or the lack of choices at CS meals, the long lines because there wasn't anything else to do.
Plus you didn't have places like the dis then either to obsess over every little detail over and over again.
And back then people were not as demanding. They didn't call demanding a certain room, or balcony type, obsess of getting an ADR 180 day out and complain if they can't.
Or complain because they paid $? and expect that allows them to get whatever they want when they want.
And if Disney doesn't or can't do it, it's Disney's fault and their standards are dropping.
In the end I think it's more the result of rude people thinking they are entitled than Disney dropping their standards.

I must say things were not perfect 15 / 20 years ago. Remember running to Epcot as soon as they opened to make your ADR's at Spaceship Earth? We wasted hours upon hours waiting on those lines to talk via "at&t phone camera" just to make your ADR's. However, the standard of how customers were treated and the "knowledgeable & helpful" staff truly made your vacation. If you had a complaint (which was rare back then) it was addressed immediately! Not waiting until you get home to write numerous emails / snail mails before even getting a response.

then again...e mail didn't exist back then either so it's hard to blame disney for that.
(see above reason's why I think there's more complaints, that and there's more people, more people means more complaints.)

I concur. I grew up near Disney and have been there hundreds of times over the last 26 years so it's easy for me to see that they are slipping in many areas. It's understandable that some people would be upset about certain changes (don't even get me started on how they ruined Imagination, brought in Mission Space, etc. etc... haha).

perfect example. there's a reason it was changed.. it wasn't working and it wasn't popular. It's not slipping because they change something.
It's changing with the demand of the guest.
what ws MS, Horizons? go back and look at the videos on you tube. there's no way that ride would work today.. you'd be online complaining about how lame, outdated, and boring it was.
Things have to change and Disney is good at recongizing that.
If they didn't they wouldn't be the top of the industry they are now.

.

In the end...we all can go anywhere and find things wrong, and do.
And hey I admit disney isn't perfect but it's sure alot better than some people (not naming anyone specific) here on the dis make it out to be.
Just most places don't have the dis or places like to to read about it
endlessly.
When you can do that, you'll more likely here the bad before the good.
But Disney's good is still the best out there and the best value for my money.


p.s sorry I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

I don't see a big deal about stools. I kind of like them at Peco Bill's so what if they have them else where.
(and we are debating about a rumor not fact)

 

[mitros]

I must say things were not perfect 15 / 20 years ago. Remember running to Epcot as soon as they opened to make your ADR's at Spaceship Earth? We wasted hours upon hours waiting on those lines to talk via "at&t phone camera" just to make your ADR's. However, the standard of how customers were treated and the "knowledgeable & helpful" staff truly made your vacation. If you had a complaint (which was rare back then) it was addressed immediately! Not waiting until you get home to write numerous emails / snail mails before even getting a response.

And with us, it was just the opposite. We never waited on a line to make those person-to-person dining reservations under SSE. It was always so quick and easy. Go figure. Of course we ALWAYS visited WDW during the off seasons, {when there were off seasons} so perhaps that is what made the difference.

 

[Colleen27]

VERY good point! I never thought about this.

Parents - what do you do with your small children when the only choice is a stool vs. a chair with a back?

Go elsewhere. Seriously. From the time my kids were out of high chairs until about 5-6 years old, I wouldn't go anywhere that had stools as the only/primary seating option.

I really can't see Disney going to stools. As someone else posted, less comfy chairs, sure. But not stools, which would open up an opportunity for a whole lot of bad press and possibly even liability when a preschooler does what preschoolers do, fidgets and falls off, sustaining an injury in the process.

 

[mysticorient]

Go elsewhere. Seriously. From the time my kids were out of high chairs until about 5-6 years old, I wouldn't go anywhere that had stools as the only/primary seating option.

I really can't see Disney going to stools. As someone else posted, less comfy chairs, sure. But not stools, which would open up an opportunity for a whole lot of bad press and possibly even liability when a preschooler does what preschoolers do, fidgets and falls off, sustaining an injury in the process.

Agreed. I also think about the elderly. My mother, for example, has COPD and needs to sit down and take breaks. If she were forced to sit on a stool and not be able to sit back and relax, it would limit her ability to enjoy a Disney afternoon.

 

[safetymom]

They have already removed the chairs with backs at Pecos.

 

[queenie82]

Agreed. I also think about the elderly. My mother, for example, has COPD and needs to sit down and take breaks. If she were forced to sit on a stool and not be able to sit back and relax, it would limit her ability to enjoy a Disney afternoon.

I don't see the forced issue though. There are benches with backs all over the place? I have an elderly grandmother as well and you just plan ahead and find somewhere she can sit before YOU go and get the food and bring it to her.
I'd go to extra effort like that for her...I'd do anything for her.

 

[ChrisFL]

I don't see the forced issue though. There are benches with backs all over the place? I have an elderly grandmother as well and you just plan ahead and find somewhere she can sit before YOU go and get the food and bring it to her.
I'd go to extra effort like that for her...I'd do anything for her.

Yes, there are benches with backs all over the place......outside in the heat..thats a problem IMO.

I was thinking about this with a friend of mine walking near the old Odyssey at Epcot last week. Why can't they just open it up for some air conditioning and rest for those who want to, maybe sell some small items...but instead it's off limits until they use it for a special event.

That's one thing I enjoyed about being at Tokyo DisneySea...they have the Teddy Roosevelt lounge with huge leather couches and seats where you feel like royalty. Yes it's a place with food and drinks, but I did not feel rushed or the need to be pushed out. That kind of relaxed environment is becoming harder and harder to find at WDW.

 

[queenie82]

Yes, there are benches with backs all over the place......outside in the heat..thats a problem IMO.

I was thinking about this with a friend of mine walking near the old Odyssey at Epcot last week. Why can't they just open it up for some air conditioning and rest for those who want to, maybe sell some small items...but instead it's off limits until they use it for a special event.

That's one thing I enjoyed about being at Tokyo DisneySea...they have the Teddy Roosevelt lounge with huge leather couches and seats where you feel like royalty. Yes it's a place with food and drinks, but I did not feel rushed or the need to be pushed out. That kind of relaxed environment is becoming harder and harder to find at WDW.

I just got out my map...I didn't go in there.
My favourite CS was the Cape Cod cook off because it didn't seem to be popular with the Japanese (hence not busy)...lol...and had a ton of seating with clam chowder...yummy!
But seriously......it isn't a fair comparison...the thing with Tokyo is that most popular food is sold in the kiosk/carts and so they don't have the problems found in the US.
PLUS...they don't have a million wheelchair and ECV's all over the place. in fact I didn't see ANY ECV's

Back on topic...not all the benches are in the sun

 

[Chuck S]

Back on topic...not all the benches are in the sun

Most, but not all, restrooms at WDW have some shaded sitting areas nearby.

 

[ChrisFL]

I just got out my map...I didn't go in there.
My favourite CS was the Cape Cod cook off because it didn't seem to be popular with the Japanese (hence not busy)...lol...and had a ton of seating with clam chowder...yummy!
But seriously......it isn't a fair comparison...the thing with Tokyo is that most popular food is sold in the kiosk/carts and so they don't have the problems found in the US.
PLUS...they don't have a million wheelchair and ECV's all over the place. in fact I didn't see ANY ECV's

Back on topic...not all the benches are in the sun

Ok, so Disney's response to this is not to keep open more places, like some that are closed way too often (Tomorrowland Noodle Station, and yes, I know it's not truly indoors, but close), they decide to make guests less comfortable so they move faster.

Sorry, but even not being in the sun, it can still be very hot in the summertime on those benches.

 

[DC7800]

In the end I think it's more the result of rude people thinking they are entitled than Disney dropping their standards.

Disney cutting park hours, closing attractions without replacement, deferring needed maintenance, eliminating parade and Fantasmic performances, and raising prices on reduced quality food and merchandise - to name but five examples - objectively show that Disney has indeed dropped their own standards. It has nothing to do with anyone's personal expectations, demands, or feelings of entitlement when customer unfriendly decisions are made solely in the interest of saving money. It is not completely impossible, perhaps, that you could have found an example of peeling paint somewhere in the Magic Kingdom or Disneyland thirty years ago, but it would have been repainted as a routine matter. It is in the last decade, however, that we have examples of such once routine maintenance being neglected for so long that the wood rots away, and the structure has to be rebuilt or demolished.

Rude people feeling entitled didn't cause Disney to design and build a mistaken theme park that made more money as a parking lot (DCA); Adherence to Disney's own standards would have eliminated the need to now spend $1 billion to address the park's most serious shortcomings. The existence of online forums may give people a place to discuss such matters in detail, but such discussion (or complaining, or unjustified "whining") does not cause the problem - it stems from it. Nor do rude, demanding guests explain why many recent upgraded attractions have been inferior (Journey into Imagination, Stitch, etc.) to the rides/shows they replaced. Sure, when you produce inferior work, be it an attraction, movie, book, or whatever, it's easy just to blame the audience when it bombs, but that doesn't excuse the lack of creativity and effort that went into producing such lackluster results.

more people means more complaints

Only in total numbers,which are meaningless to judge how what your audience/customers think of your product/service. If you run a restaurant and have 1% of your diners complain their food is cold, maybe that's an expected number. Problems happen, somebody may want something free, or whatever. You make it right for that 1% and go on. But if 20-30% or so of everyone dining starts to comment about how their meals seem to have just come out of the freezer, you've got a real problem, and blaming the customers won't make it go away. Ironically it will, though, make your customers go away. Hmm.....what Orlando theme=park operator has resorted to larger and more frequent discounts to try to keep its (overbuilt) resort hotels occupied?

what ws MS, Horizons? go back and look at the videos on you tube. there's no way that ride would work today.. you'd be online complaining about how lame, outdated, and boring it was.
Things have to change and Disney is good at recongizing that.
If they didn't they wouldn't be the top of the industry they are now.

Epcot - particularly Future World - was allowed to become stale. It shouldn't have been a surprise that an attraction about the future might need updating regularly. It absolutely did not need to be bulldozed, It needed a rehab and update like Spaceship Earth and Living with the Land have recieved. If you believe it wouldn't work today, then how do you explain the continued success of the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean, Space Mountain, It's a Small World, and Spaceship Earth (among others). All have undergone incremental improvements over the years (often not enough, but I digress) to keep things fresh - Horizons essentially sat untouched for almost two decades. Again, the subject matter of the attraction needed attention more often than these other examples. There are some problems with the latest update to Spaceship Earth, but the attraction endures, and so should have Horizons.

Finally, Epcot Center's success was built upon attractions like Horizons, the World of Motion, and Journey into Imagination. Two of those were replaced with thrill rides, which to an extent alienated Epcot's core audience (if you loved the slow omnimover experience of Horizons, Mission Space may not be your cup of tea, and vice-versa). Imagination needed attention, but a rehab which built upon and enhanced the existing attraction. Demolishing an expensive ride and replacing it with a cheaper (shorter) alternative defies logic, even if you only consider it from a "business" perspective (ie., what's the most cost-effective way to update the ride to maintain its popularity, etc.), which Disney does, often with disappointing results.

And hey I admit disney isn't perfect but it's sure alot better than some people (not naming anyone specific) here on the dis make it out to be.
Just most places don't have the dis or places like to to read about it
endlessly.
When you can do that, you'll more likely here the bad before the good.
But Disney's good is still the best out there and the best value for my money.

There are more things than I could possibly list that Disney still does very well or even exceptionally. There is nothing else even remotely like Disney - it is truly something special, with a remarkable and unique history for a company which once knew no bounds. That's exactly why we harp on the problems so much. The decline in standards doesn't at all mean we don't love the place; Just the opposite, and probably too much sometimes, which is why it is so hard to see the direction the place is headed (ultimately circling the toilet). Just how far we are from that point is certainly debatable, but the fact that there has been a steep and worsening decline is objective fact. In short, I love Disney and especially Walt Disney World, I loath what the company has or is becoming.

 

[Chuck S]

Ok, so Disney's response to this is not to keep open more places, like some that are closed way too often (Tomorrowland Noodle Station, and yes, I know it's not truly indoors, but close), they decide to make guests less comfortable so they move faster.

Sorry, but even not being in the sun, it can still be very hot in the summertime on those benches.

What do you expect them to do about the heat with outside benches? Many are shaded. You can't air condition the outside areas of the park. There are cool seating areas at EPCOT, behind the Fountain View, in the building tat now houses a character meet n greet. There are shaded benches and seating areas all over AK (yes, it's still hot...but again, you can't cool the great outdoors) and there are some covered and cool seating areas at the studios and MK as well.

I really don't see them just replacing all the CS seating with benches, unless the seats are already scheduled to be replaced anyway due to wear and tear. That would be ridiculously expensive just to sell a few more meals. Even so, those seats are for dining, it's not always easy to find a place to sit when you are getting a meal, much less just relaxing.