Not to reopen that can of worms but...

[jtowntoflorida]

We just got back from a split Disney-Universal trip. We spent 2 1/2 days at Disney (2 at DHS for SWW, 1 at MK) and 2 1/2 days at Universal. The first half of our trip was stressful and we felt really regimented and scheduled. I had a FP+ for one of the SWW shows for both Friday and Saturday as a backup. We ended up seeing the show Friday night as planned, so that night I tried to change that show FP+ to something else. There were no rides available (already had a TSM, so no "Tier 1" GMR could be booked) and no Frozen singalong, which is what I wanted. We ended up only using one FP+ that day, for TSM. We were hot and tired and let a FP+ for Star Tours pass by so we could swim and there was no availability for later in the day. We did use all of our MK FP+, and those worked out well, but we were only doing a half day in the park.

Then we went to Universal...and it suddenly felt like we were on vacation. We stayed at the Hard Rock so we had unlimited Express Pass. That allowed us to come and go as we please, and be spontaneous. Because we were at a deluxe resort, we also got preferred seating at restaurants, so we were able to walk right in and get tables right away (once at lunch, twice for dinner). After running through the Disney regiment for 2 1/2 days, Universal was like a breath of fresh air. I love planning, but having to keep so many appointments is just no good on vacation. I hate planning the rides we want to ride 60 days in advance. The old FP system allowed for more spontaneity and it wasn't as high stakes as FP+ is. With FP-, other than a handful of rides, if you missed your window it was no big deal...you could pull another FP and still be able to ride. With FP+, if you miss your window you can be totally SOL. And you won't know until you're there. The day by day availability is so varied...missing a window is like playing Russian roulette. Maybe it will work out for you, but there are no guarantees. FP+ is what it is, and it's here to stay, but it definitely contributes to decreased satisfaction from our Disney vacation for us.

 

[AllieBoo]

Honestly this sounds like even MORE work and stress. I'd rather just deal with the person making a stink. Taking requests 1st, 2nd, and 3rd from a group of people ranging in size from 5 - 13 (depending how many people are together at that moment) up to 39 requests, and then going to the kiosk, waiting in line and trying to keep all that straight in my head ... no thanks.

We just didn't need to do this with legacy. We just pulled FPs for rides as we toured the parks, we never felt limited in the FPs we would get so there was no worry. No one would complain in Tomorrow land about pulling an FP for Space Mountain, because they knew that when we made it to frontier land we would pull for BTMRR. We didn't need to manage expectations. Now MK is still pretty ok, though we had less availability with FP+ than with legacy FP on our last trip, the other parks are FAR worse. There is just no way we are getting as much done in Epcot, or HS, or AK. Sure we can always rope drop and get a ton done, but we could ALWAYS rope drop get a ton done, have greater access to FPs for the rest of the day and shorter SB lines. In no way does FP+ make this better.

Its one of the things I just don't get when people complain about FP+ and the response is "you can still get a lot done, just rope drop" ... um ... thats not a new feature of FP+. That was always an option, but beyond your RD you had more availability ahead of you. Of course on the busiest times of year I can see how FP+ looks better for later in the day arrivals and for night arrivals, but moderate crowds and lower crowds, not really. And those advantages of FP+ are really only felt if you would have skipped the rest of the day anyway, or would rather skip the rest of the day. All things included, if you look at the ability to get things done from park open to close and assumed you would take advantage of the entire duration of park hours to ride rides, I can't see how FP+ is a net positive. In particular situations and with particular touring styles it obviously is, those styles and situations just don't usually align with ours, except arrival day perhaps

I am saying the exact opposite of that - in my family's experience last week, rope drop is no longer necessary for us. With FP+, we can schedule the headliners we want for whatever time of day we want and head to the parks whatever time of day we feel like. We did just that last week and were still able to ride everything we wanted multiple times with little wait. Before FP+, we felt like we had to be there at rope drop to ensure we could get a Soarin or TSMM fastpass before they all got gone...

 

[Lucius Best]

When you say one day you got over a dozen extra fp is this because after each time you used your fp you would find a kiosk and just ask for a new one? Are there kiosks where we do this ourself or do we need to see a cm?

Yes, go to kiosk, select FP, ride the ride, repeat, go to kiosk, select FP, ride the ride, repeat. On that particular day, which was not busy, the return times were mostly 5 minutes away. We would go straight to the ride (which had 20-30 minute posted standby wait) and walk in immediately with FP. That was not the norm the rest of the week we were there.

http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/fastpass.htm

 

[TheDisGuy]

I am saying the exact opposite of that - in my family's experience last week, rope drop is no longer necessary for us. With FP+, we can schedule the headliners we want for whatever time of day we want and head to the parks whatever time of day we feel like. We did just that last week and were still able to ride everything we wanted multiple times with little wait. Before FP+, we felt like we had to be there at rope drop to ensure we could get a Soarin or TSMM fastpass before they all got gone...

I can totally understand that, if that was your experience FP+ probably worked for you, even if only because it made you feel that way. If crowds were low enough that you were able to ride everything you wanted multiple times, including headliners, then it is likely you would have had even greater FP availability under legacy FP, and you wouldn't have had to worry about the FPs being gone for Soarin' etc. We never did, we would pull Soarin and TT FPs well into the day, we weren't RD people either, didn't need to be travelling in May mostly.

But, I can very much see that for some people the trade of of knowing you have 3, is better than being pretty confident you will get 6. Thats totally fair.

 

[TheDisGuy]

Yes, go to kiosk, select FP, ride the ride, repeat, go to kiosk, select FP, ride the ride, repeat. On that particular day, which was not busy, the return times were mostly 5 minutes away. We would go straight to the ride (which had 20-30 minute posted standby wait) and walk in immediately with FP. That was not the norm the rest of the week we were there.

http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/fastpass.htm

We had a couple days like this as well, which is why I said it was actually MORE work than legacy FP. We used to just pull FPs for rides we were around, Ie Space has 20 or 30 min wait, grab FP for 10 min return time, either Ride SB and then ride immediately again with FP, or pop into Buzz or Astro with a 5 or 10 min SB, Pull another FP (for Buzz, Astro or even Space) Ride Space FP, Grab another FP, Use the 2nd FP, repeat ... just kinda wander and pull FPs for attractions we were around, no criss crossing the park etc.

 

[Jennytoon]

Then we went to Universal...and it suddenly felt like we were on vacation. We stayed at the Hard Rock so we had unlimited Express Pass. That allowed us to come and go as we please, and be spontaneous. Because we were at a deluxe resort, we also got preferred seating at restaurants, so we were able to walk right in and get tables right away (once at lunch, twice for dinner). After running through the Disney regiment for 2 1/2 days, Universal was like a breath of fresh air.

jtown, I want to be clear up front that I quoted your message only because you very succinctly expressed something I wanted to respond to that I've seen many people post -- I completely understand the emotional difference you're perceiving, and I'm sure that perception is valid.

I often see posts comparing US Express Pass to WDW FP+, usually with an air of "and why was Disney so dumb as to put in FP+ instead of this awesome system"? (which I didn't get from you). The reality is that everyone can't have Express Pass, or it would be just like everyone rides standby. So when people write about how easy it was with EP, they are describing an experience that came at the expense of someone else having less "ride privileges" and a lesser experience than they did. Similarly, I think it's fairly well acknowledged that legacy FP was disproportionately utilized, and guests who pulled several per day and especially multiple FP for headliners were able to do that only because many were having a lesser experience.

I think the question isn't "why can't FP+ be as easy and simple as EP?", but rather "for all that you may like or not like about the FP+ system, if you were trying to devise a system to allow people of many different touring styles as equal as possible access to front-of-line privileges, could you do a better job than FP+?" And I mean really a better job, one that doesn't involve servers that operate at speeds in violation of physical limitations, or infinite network bandwidth or other aspects that are just plain unrealistic. If not, then I think we have to acknowledge that the loss of spontaneity with FP+ compared to FP- is a natural consequence of WDW being really popular and Disney making a decision to try to "spread the wealth" as evenly as possible.

And then each individual has to decide whether the loss of spontaneity has changed WDW into a place that is not for them anymore, because in truth it has never been everyone's cup of tea. Or perhaps they will find that they thought they loved spontaneity, but really they actually prefer to sleep in, show up at DHS at 3 PM, and still get on TSMM without having to ride standby. Or perhaps somewhere in the middle.

So to the OP, as so many have said ... I don't think you can really know until you've tried it. One of the most interesting things we found about FP+ on our first trip with it last month was that in the beginning we allowed ourselves to think of our FP+ times as more rigid than FP- even though it wasn't true. We felt like we had to be there at the beginning of our window -- we had never felt like that with FP-, and with FP+ it wasn't true either except in our minds! Over the week that we were there, adjusting our thoughts to eliminate this inaccurate, self-imposed idea changed our perception and comfort level with the system. So I would also say that not only do you have to try it, you also have to keep an open mind and really give it a chance. Treat it like a totally new system that you are learning how to use, rather than making constant comparisons to FP-, and don't be afraid to make changes in your touring style to make it work for you.

 

[Luckybee]

jtown, I want to be clear up front that I quoted your message only because you very succinctly expressed something I wanted to respond to that I've seen many people post -- I completely understand the emotional difference you're perceiving, and I'm sure that perception is valid.

I often see posts comparing US Express Pass to WDW FP+, usually with an air of "and why was Disney so dumb as to put in FP+ instead of this awesome system"? (which I didn't get from you). The reality is that everyone can't have Express Pass, or it would be just like everyone rides standby. So when people write about how easy it was with EP, they are describing an experience that came at the expense of someone else having less "ride privileges" and a lesser experience than they did. Similarly, I think it's fairly well acknowledged that legacy FP was disproportionately utilized, and guests who pulled several per day and especially multiple FP for headliners were able to do that only because many were having a lesser experience.

I think the question isn't "why can't FP+ be as easy and simple as EP?", but rather "for all that you may like or not like about the FP+ system, if you were trying to devise a system to allow people of many different touring styles as equal as possible access to front-of-line privileges, could you do a better job than FP+?" And I mean really a better job, one that doesn't involve servers that operate at speeds in violation of physical limitations, or infinite network bandwidth or other aspects that are just plain unrealistic. If not, then I think we have to acknowledge that the loss of spontaneity with FP+ compared to FP- is a natural consequence of WDW being really popular and Disney making a decision to try to "spread the wealth" as evenly as possible.
.

But what you're missing in this is that in some ways EP is no less fair than fp+. To get 3 fp+'s booked 60 days out one must either stay at a Disney hotel, or purchase a throwaway room. If one doesn't do one of those 2 things then they are locked out of fp"s for certain attractions at certain times. Everyone can get 30 days out but only for 3 attractions per day and not always the 3 they want. Contra with Universal EP which is available for everything but 3 HP attractions for everyone who wants it (unless they sell out) either by staying at a deluxe hotel or purchasing it. And it is available in more that one type so that if you are a ride repeater you can purchase the unlimited pass for one or both parks, or if you don't do repeats for a smaller cost you can purchase the one ride per attraction only pass. (and all this without mentioning the qbot system that will allow guests to just purchase fp's for rides with appointments aka fp's ) How is that not fair to all ? Everyone can choose to have as many fp's (ep's) as they wish. It isn't "at the expense of someone else" when that someone else can choose to be in the same position (so long as they book early enough at certain times because there are times when EP sells out)

 

[Nancyg56]

We spent a considerable amount of our MK time at guest relations trying to get the ticket thing sorted out. Once we figured out the FP+ selections were lost, we didn't want to go back to the front of the park and deal with GR again trying to get fast passes back. We had others in our group and had already made them wait long enough. Plus my wife was "done" dealing with things by that point, so I bought her a funnel cake and she sat and chilled out for while.

LOL! I am so sorry that happened, but I will tell you, a funnel cake would have worked for me too!!!

 

[Nancyg56]

jtown, I want to be clear up front that I quoted your message only because you very succinctly expressed something I wanted to respond to that I've seen many people post -- I completely understand the emotional difference you're perceiving, and I'm sure that perception is valid.

I often see posts comparing US Express Pass to WDW FP+, usually with an air of "and why was Disney so dumb as to put in FP+ instead of this awesome system"? (which I didn't get from you). The reality is that everyone can't have Express Pass, or it would be just like everyone rides standby. So when people write about how easy it was with EP, they are describing an experience that came at the expense of someone else having less "ride privileges" and a lesser experience than they did. Similarly, I think it's fairly well acknowledged that legacy FP was disproportionately utilized, and guests who pulled several per day and especially multiple FP for headliners were able to do that only because many were having a lesser experience.

I think the question isn't "why can't FP+ be as easy and simple as EP?", but rather "for all that you may like or not like about the FP+ system, if you were trying to devise a system to allow people of many different touring styles as equal as possible access to front-of-line privileges, could you do a better job than FP+?" And I mean really a better job, one that doesn't involve servers that operate at speeds in violation of physical limitations, or infinite network bandwidth or other aspects that are just plain unrealistic. If not, then I think we have to acknowledge that the loss of spontaneity with FP+ compared to FP- is a natural consequence of WDW being really popular and Disney making a decision to try to "spread the wealth" as evenly as possible.

And then each individual has to decide whether the loss of spontaneity has changed WDW into a place that is not for them anymore, because in truth it has never been everyone's cup of tea. Or perhaps they will find that they thought they loved spontaneity, but really they actually prefer to sleep in, show up at DHS at 3 PM, and still get on TSMM without having to ride standby. Or perhaps somewhere in the middle.

So to the OP, as so many have said ... I don't think you can really know until you've tried it. One of the most interesting things we found about FP+ on our first trip with it last month was that in the beginning we allowed ourselves to think of our FP+ times as more rigid than FP- even though it wasn't true. We felt like we had to be there at the beginning of our window -- we had never felt like that with FP-, and with FP+ it wasn't true either except in our minds! Over the week that we were there, adjusting our thoughts to eliminate this inaccurate, self-imposed idea changed our perception and comfort level with the system. So I would also say that not only do you have to try it, you also have to keep an open mind and really give it a chance. Treat it like a totally new system that you are learning how to use, rather than making constant comparisons to FP-, and don't be afraid to make changes in your touring style to make it work for you.

I am inclined to agree with you. I was a flustered mess when I had to schedule our FP last October. Normally we were that family that sent my DSIL racing to whatever FP attraction we wanted as we strolled there to meet him, so for the first time, I was responsible for not only my own attractions, but my friend's fun. Once we arrived, I realized that FP+ was a bonus for us, and for me, all of that stress was wasted energy.

I cannot say that we went the whole trip without issues, because I was a bit inept making changes, and I hated that kiosk thing. I do believe that if we had had to rely on me traipsing from one FP to snag another, my friend and I would be FP less! though.

I do think that fair is in the eye of the beholder, ad we all want to have the best experience in the parks as possible, so for some people, who were skilled at managing to get the most out of FP-, the new system will not be as much of a boon, but for people who did not like to get to the parks at RD, and who were often left to choose between long standby lines or skip a headliner, this system will be a better fit. Either way, there will be some folks who just can't adjust, and that is valid too.

 

[hogwartsdropout]

Honestly... I thought I'd hate it. I did not enjoy booking my FP+ at midnight 60 days out. But when we got there we found that we could actually ride a lot more than we thought. I booked all our FP's for morning, so once we'd used them all we went straight to the kiosk to get a new FP. We liked that we could hop parks after our 3rd FP and get a new FP for the next park. It was fun seeing what choices we had and picking something we might not necessarily pick without FP+. I think we'll be using the same strategy when we go in October.

 

[Barnabe]

I just do't think FP+ is more fair than FP- or than Universal's EP. The reason for my argument is there are FP+ superusers out there, I met a few at the parks. These are the people who in addition to the armbands on their wrists have baggies filled with additional MB's. I was talking to one woman in a Kiosk line and her family of 4 had been to WDW 5 times since FP+. So by using the bands from previous trips, everyone in her family had 15 FP+ rides. She did say it was only good at MK.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I just do't think FP+ is more fair than FP- or than Universal's EP. The reason for my argument is there are FP+ superusers out there, I met a few at the parks. These are the people who in addition to the armbands on their wrists have baggies filled with additional MB's. I was talking to one woman in a Kiosk line and her family of 4 had been to WDW 5 times since FP+. So by using the bands from previous trips, everyone in her family had 15 FP+ rides. She did say it was only good at MK.

By definition any option that allows people to "skip" a line puts one persons experience ahead of others. The difference is the old FP system put everyone on an equal playing field. If you arrived late and missed FP at least you had the option of getting up and getting to the park and being in the mix. Even the EP system puts people in the same boat since everyone eligible has the same experience. Under FP+ though if you arrive on Tuesday you have more opportunity than the person who arrives on Wednesday and the person who arrives on Monday has more opportunity than you. Not to mention the push for dining reservations at 180 days goes in direct conflict with the FP+ system. Just think now you can check you're whole trip to find out the FP+ for Soarin wins available for the only day you were able to get Be Out Guest dining reservations. Even better on your EPCOT day you can check and find you get your 3 FP+ for Living with the Land, Spaceship Earth and Journey into Imagination which is great because you got your 3 but they're for rides that never needed FP before the new system which created artificial lines.

 

[Jennasis]

Fair...more fair...less fair...equal.

Meh.

I'm on vacation and don't care for the socialization of it. As blunt as it may be, I really don't care if others get on rides as much as I do or even at all. I only care about my families experience. Of course, now that the shoe is on the other foot, those who suddenly have more opportunity don't care about my lessened experience...and I would expect nothing less. And now I'm the one crying foul.

Circle of life and all.

Wonder what cockamamie scheme Disney will devise 10+ years from now that will turn us on our heads again? Can't wait!

 

[maxiesmom]

By definition any option that allows people to "skip" a line puts one persons experience ahead of others. The difference is the old FP system put everyone on an equal playing field. If you arrived late and missed FP at least you had the option of getting up and getting to the park and being in the mix. Even the EP system puts people in the same boat since everyone eligible has the same experience. Under FP+ though if you arrive on Tuesday you have more opportunity than the person who arrives on Wednesday and the person who arrives on Monday has more opportunity than you. Not to mention the push for dining reservations at 180 days goes in direct conflict with the FP+ system. Just think now you can check you're whole trip to find out the FP+ for Soarin wins available for the only day you were able to get Be Out Guest dining reservations. Even better on your EPCOT day you can check and find you get your 3 FP+ for Living with the Land, Spaceship Earth and Journey into Imagination which is great because you got your 3 but they're for rides that never needed FP before the new system which created artificial lines.

I think it depends on your definition of an equal playing field. It really wasn't equal when you had to get up early to get FPs for certain rides. The edge was definitely to those who arrived at the parks at open.

I don't think there is a way to make the system truly equal for all.

 

[Minniesgal]

Personally I love it, no more top drop, make FP+ for 10-11am, back to the resort for the afternoon a different park for the evening with a few FP+ made at kiosks. We think it is a huge improvement.

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't understand this scenario at all. Why does the whole group have to be at the kiosk and shouting to each other? Cannot one person go and select an attraction for everyone, and then changes be made via the app/site if needed?

Not everyone has a smart phone.

 

[WillAustin]

In particular situations and with particular touring styles it obviously is, those styles and situations just don't usually align with ours, except arrival day perhaps

I think if I were someone who tended to find the headliners were out of FPs when I tried to get them, I'd be likely to see FP+ as a positive. Since we were always able to get multiple headliner rides and FPs for them on the legacy system, it's a net negative for us.

 

[PeasandCarrots]

I think there's a big adjustment to the new system if you were used to the old FP system. I know it's true for us. There are some aspects of FP+ we will never like, but I've started seeing some advantages too. Would I go back to the old system if I could? Honestly I don't know, it's about 50/50. Does the new system need work? Yes.

Pros:
1) Locking in certain attractions so you don't have to worry about missing them due to crazy long waits (like 7DMT)
2) Ability to miss rope drop if you're tired or the bus is really late or whatever and it's not the end of the world
3) Ability to do something else in the morning then go to a park in the evening and not have to wait in line for everything and/or have them already be out of paper fastpasses in the old system. (Example this fall we are going to Universal one day, but will still probably hit Epcot in the evening - I can make 3 FPs for Epcot at 6, 7, and 8.)

Cons:
1) Having to plan what day to be in what park at what time 60 days out (we don't do ADRs and used to just pick on the fly where to go that day and/or park hop a lot)
2) Being on a schedule, some days I feel like I'm rushing from ride to ride without time to "take it all in" - old system you could miss your window and still use the FP back in the day. Again this restricts spontaneity. Want ice cream now? Too bad we have 7DMT FP! Want to watch street enertainers? Sorry, our Toy Story FP is now!
3) Kiosk lines for 4th FPs and beyond - this is highly variable, but I have seen 20 minute lines at the kiosks. This ability needs to be on the app.
4) Requirement to use the first 3 in one park. This takes some of the fun out of park hopping and seems to keep us in the first park of the day longer than we used to would have stayed. It's pointless to schedule a 9am FP for most things because the lines are short so we save them for 11, 2, and 1, leaving a break to eat between 12-1. That keeps us in that park until almost 3 - we used to leave right after lunch to hop and/or take a break.

The biggest variable is crowd levels. When it's not too crowded the system works great. No lines at the kiosks, plenty of 4, 5, 6, and 7th FPs to be had, etc. In November it was very crowded (not highest crowds but still pretty packed). The system did not work well. By the time we used our first 3, only stuff that had no wait had FPs left and there were long lines at the kiosks. In April, crowd levels were lower and the system worked well. We even changed about 3 days out which park we were going to and were able to get decent FPs at decent times.

If you can, I recommend going at a lower crowd time of the year AND using easywdw.com to pick which park to go to which day. That last part is what we did in April and it made a huge difference in our enjoyment and in my opinion of FP+. At this point all said, I think I slightly prefer the new system, but it really needs some improvement.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I think it depends on your definition of an equal playing field. It really wasn't equal when you had to get up early to get FPs for certain rides. The edge was definitely to those who arrived at the parks at open.

I don't think there is a way to make the system truly equal for all.

Everyone had an equal opportunity to get up and be at the parks. Whether you chose to or not didn't change the opportunity.

 

[caroline1851]

We just returned last night. Our trip was 6/6-6/10. Here's what my experience was like:
60 days i booked all fp. I was able to make changes along the way (other than Mine Train and I didn't attempt Toy Story)
Arrival day 6/6, we got to Animal Kingdom around 10:30. Had FP+ for KS, Kali, Dinosaur. Son rode EE single rider line. All worked out great. At one point i wanted to move dinosaur up. App wasn't workjing on my phone, but CM helped me at a Kiosk and it was no problem.
MK 6/7. FP+ for Mine Train, Splash and POC (didn't need this, but wan't sure in advance because last day it was open). Attempted to get a later fp, but nothing available for anything we wanted.
EPC 6/8. FP+ for Test Track, Spaceship Earth and Nemo (no other options haha). When the times expired, attempted to get Soarin or Test Track, but not available. (We had ridden Soarin at RD anyway though). Bummed we couldn't do TT again.
HS 6/9. FP+ for TOT, TSM and ST. (didn't have one for RRC so rode that at RD). After last FP+, went to get another and there was plenty for RRC, TOT and ST available, we just chose to leave though.
6/10. FP+ for Space M, BTMRR, Mine TRain. Space Mtrn was closed for technical reasons. bummed. So we used that fp on BUzz i think.

Positives for us: Even though each day we needed to arrive prior to RD in order to get to a ride we dind't have a fp for...it made the rest of the day more relaxing because you KNOW you're getting to ride on your favorites and there's no running around from ride to ride to collect fp.
Negatives for us: THere really aren't that many Kiosk stations. Kind of had to go out of your way often to get to them. Also, sometimes made it difficult to ride a favorite more than once (I.e. Test Track/Soarin)

Fortunately,for all of us here on disboards, we know how these things work and we don't wait in lines. I cannot believe how many people are waiting for Peter Pan for 60+ min or Mine Train for 100+. CRAZY. I, literally, would never go back to disney if that was my experience.